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Old
03-14-2013, 09:44 PM
  #901
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Originally Posted by ImIdaho View Post
He's Snowblind's cousin. Except, instead of ragging on a player, he puts them on a pedestal.

I appreciate talented players all across the league.

Something Ranger fans dont, and this team has sorely lacked for years.

TALENT.

Excuse me for enjoying watching actual talent instead of boneheaded hockey employed by Johnny T.

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03-14-2013, 10:19 PM
  #902
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Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
I don't recall Torts bashing Gabby for his post-season performance (or lack thereof). Are you basing that other comment on post-game comments where Torts basically convinces the media that he knows nothing about the players' injury status so that he doesn't have to answer questions or comment about them? Or did Torts come out after the season ended and say he had no idea Gabby got injured in the Sens series??? I'd have a hard time believing that Gaborik would not have spoken to and worked with Jim Ramsey after being injured, and that Rammer would not have communicated that information with the coaching staff. That's Jim Ramseys job....

If Gaborik injured himself and did not communicate that with the medical staff or the coach, than that would be quite puzzling and alarming. Players don't get sidelined for being forthcoming about their injuries/ailments, they get sidelined when the medical staff and management decide they cannot contribute out on the ice or that they would risk further injury if they were to play. I'd also have a hard time believing that Gaborik didn't tell anyone about his shoulder because he would be afraid he wouldn't be allowed to keep playing. They would let him play if they felt he could still have an impact on the outcome of the game.
Torts said in a radio interview after the playoffs that he didn't know Gaby was injured.

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03-14-2013, 10:25 PM
  #903
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Originally Posted by GeorgeHamiltonsTan View Post
im not so sure i follow...
sooo, nash scores the same amount of goals playing for a god aweful team while gabby does it playing on a team 1 period away from the finals, how does this look good for gabby?
our point is that everything with gabby is in short samples...he scores 2-3 in a game (usually against the piles) and then disappears for 10 games. so yes we can all break it down into small samples because thats exactly whats he's done for the majority of his nyr career.
My point is you can make a stat look like what you want it to to prove your point by manipulating the data. Provide the actual data that shows he does this and that it is significantly different than other players of his type. Seems to me HeyYo posted data disproving your theory that he does this (though I did not verify what he said nor did I compare it to others).

And what are you talking about the team Gaboriks first year here was not one away from the finals and he put up similar number sin Minnesota in the past as well on a bad team so that argument doesn't hold up. Also it is not like while here Gaborik played with significantly better talent than nash - the team's were better because of Lundqvist/Defense but I mean Gabby was often playing with Christensen, prospal etc..

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03-14-2013, 10:28 PM
  #904
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Gaborik did more his first year with less talent than anyone has here in recent memory.

That was Bure-lite circa 1999.

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03-14-2013, 10:31 PM
  #905
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Originally Posted by Heyoooo View Post
Gaborik did more his first year with less talent than anyone has here in recent memory.

That was Bure-lite circa 1999.
Uh Jagr?

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03-14-2013, 10:35 PM
  #906
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
Uh Jagr?
Jagr pretty much carried those first few post lockout teams.

His first season here was.....well yeah.

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03-14-2013, 10:36 PM
  #907
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Jagr pretty much carried those first few post lockout teams.

His first season here was.....well yeah.
People think Nash is great, and he is, but Jagr was the best player I have seen in a Ranger uniform since Leetch in his prime.

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03-14-2013, 10:39 PM
  #908
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My bad, forgot Jagr, although I will say the supporting cast for Gaborik first two years was weaker than what Jagr had his final year.

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03-14-2013, 10:54 PM
  #909
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Originally Posted by Heyoooo View Post
My bad, forgot Jagr, although I will say the supporting cast for Gaborik first two years was weaker than what Jagr had his final year.
What's with your fixation on the past? You seem to be more concerned with the player's reputation than his current peformance.... Well guess what? Gabby's 40 goal seasons mean NOTHING in the present moment. They don't help us make the playoffs this season, they don't help us get any closer to advancing in the playoffs and actually winning a Stanley Cup.... You can talk about his prior seasons and how many games he has played all day long, and none of that will matter when this team misses the playoffs or gets bounced in the fist round by Pittsburgh or Boston....

Do you think when the coaching staff is evaluating the performance of the players right now they sit and think about how many goals Gaborik scored in prior seasons and then decide to lighten up on him for his poor play because they owe him something for scoring 40 goals in prior years???


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03-14-2013, 10:57 PM
  #910
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Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
What's with your fixation on the past? You seem to be more concerned with the player's reputation than his current peformance.... Well guess what? Gabby's 40 goal seasons mean NOTHING in the present moment. They don't help us make the playoffs this season, they don't help us get any closer to advancing in the playoffs and actually winning a Stanley Cup.... You can talk about his prior seasons and how many games he has played all day long, and none of that will matter when this team misses the playoffs or gets bounced in the fist round by Pittsburgh or Boston....

Do you think when the coaching staff is evaluating the performance of the players right now they sit and think about how many goals Gaborik scored in prior seasons and then decide to lighten up on him for his poor play because they owe him something for scoring 40 goals in prior years???

it might be the PAST, but 3 years > 25 games for a sample size.

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03-14-2013, 10:59 PM
  #911
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Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
What's with your fixation on the past? You seem to be more concerned with the player's reputation than his current peformance.... Well guess what? Gabby's 40 goal seasons mean NOTHING in the present moment. They don't help us make the playoffs this season, they don't help us get any closer to advancing in the playoffs and actually winning a Stanley Cup.... You can talk about his prior seasons and how many games he has played all day long, and none of that will matter when this team misses the playoffs or gets bounced in the fist round by Pittsburgh or Boston....

Do you think when the coaching staff is evaluating the performance of the players right now they sit and think about how many goals Gaborik scored in prior seasons and then decide to lighten up on him for his poor play because they owe him something for scoring 40 goals in prior years???

So what you're really trying to say is
Some of the best players in the NHL are Chris Kunitz, Jakub Voracek, PA Parenteau, Chris Stewart and Sam Gagner

And some poor players are Marian Gaborik, Loui Eriksson, Johan Franzen, RNH, and Patrick Marleau (afterall Marleau did score 10 goals in the first 5 games and now only has 3 in the last 20 so he must be a scrub who should be traded)

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Old
03-14-2013, 11:03 PM
  #912
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Thanks for the followup fellas.


wolfgaze, theres a reason employers take your resume into massive consideration when applying for a job (unless of course you just know someone )

Gaborik's resume is no different and suggests an entirely different picture than whats being portrayed.


In fact, I think it even further proves my point because we all couldve seen from a mile away Gaborik was bound for an off season, and here we are.....

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03-14-2013, 11:07 PM
  #913
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Like I said, can't await the trade Nash threads in 3 yrs time when the fanbase is fed up with their star scorer!

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Old
03-14-2013, 11:11 PM
  #914
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Originally Posted by SA16 View Post
So what you're really trying to say is
Some of the best players in the NHL are Chris Kunitz, Jakub Voracek, PA Parenteau, Chris Stewart and Sam Gagner

And some poor players are Marian Gaborik, Loui Eriksson, Johan Franzen, RNH, and Patrick Marleau (afterall Marleau did score 10 goals in the first 5 games and now only has 3 in the last 20 so he must be a scrub who should be traded)
Where have I ever said he should be traded this season? I'm an advocate of shopping him in the off-season....

And I call a spade a spade when I see it - that means criticizing players when their play warrants it, regardless of what they did 1, 2, 3 years ago for you.... Gaborik's performance this season has been unacceptable. Scoring goals in just 5 of 27 games.... You think I'm only looking at this season when I say we should trade im in the off-season? Think again.... Look at the contracts that are set to expire this season and next and you tell me where we're going to find the room to give raises to our key young & core players and also try and address our depth concerns throughout the remainder of the line-up...

Important Questions:

Do you see any signs of Gaborik turning his game around anytime soon?

Do you have any confidence Gaborik is going to figure out how to elevate his game against teams like Pittsburgh & Boston in the playoffs when the going gets tough and everything is on the line?

Do you feel optimistic he will stay 100% healthy since apparently around here, Gaborik is hurting everytime he stinks?

I can't answer YES to any of these questions.... We can keep the guy another season and likely get more of the same from him, or we can try and trade him to a Western Conference team in return for a younger forward (or forward prospect) + pick(s) and look to address our depth through the FA market.... How did those trades work out for Philly??? Sure those forwards they moved had different contracts than Gabby but they really maximized their return in those trades and they really found gems in Voracek and Simmonds... Schenn is having a strong season as a 2nd year player too..


Last edited by wolfgaze: 03-14-2013 at 11:41 PM.
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03-14-2013, 11:16 PM
  #915
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Originally Posted by Heyoooo View Post
Thanks for the followup fellas.


wolfgaze, theres a reason employers take your resume into massive consideration when applying for a job (unless of course you just know someone )

Gaborik's resume is no different and suggests an entirely different picture than whats being portrayed.


In fact, I think it even further proves my point because we all couldve seen from a mile away Gaborik was bound for an off season, and here we are.....
Now you're talking about job resumes? Great logic....

I'm focused on this season and the Rangers cap/contract situation moving forward. You want to defend the guy's reputation like it's somehow more important than what I'm concerned about? Good luck with that. I see a player I have no confidence will be a playoff performer for us and I haven't seen anything yet that gives me a reason to believe otherwise.


Last edited by wolfgaze: 03-14-2013 at 11:23 PM.
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03-14-2013, 11:17 PM
  #916
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Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
Where have I ever said he should be traded this season? I'm an advocate of shopping him in the off-season....

And I call a spade a spade when I see it - that means criticizing players when their play warrants it, regardless of what they did 1, 2, 3 years ago for you.... Gaborik's performance this season has been unacceptable. Scoring goals in just 5 of 27 games.... You think I'm only looking at this season when I say we should trade im in the off-season? Think again.... Look at the contracts that are set to expire this season and next and you tell me where we're going to find the room to give raises to our key young & core players and also try and address our depth concerns throughout the remainder of the line-up...

Important Questions:

Do you see any signs of Gaborik turning his game around anytime soon?

Do you have any confidence Gaborik is going to figure out how to elevate his game against teams like Pittsburgh & Boston in the playoffs when the going gets tough and everything is on the line?

Do you feel optimistic he will stay 100% healthy since apparently around here, Gaborik is hurting everytime he stinks?

I can't answer YES to any of these questions.... We can keep the guy another season and likely get more of the same from him, or we can try and trade him to a Western Conference team in return for a younger forward (or forward prospect) + pick(s).... How did those trades work out for Philly??? Sure those forwards they moved had different contracts than Gabby but they really maximized their return in those trades and now they have 3 promising young forwards in Simmonds, Voracek, and Couturier.
EDIT: bleh, misread, tired going to bed. agree with you, a little bit.

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Old
03-14-2013, 11:22 PM
  #917
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I agree that his performance has been unacceptable this year. But the fact that he hasn't performed doesn't mean that he can't performed. His done it year in year out everywhere he's been. The only bad year he has ever had is two years ago. Every other year (post being real young of course) he's pretty much been on a 40 goal/PPG pace even though he was hurt a lot then. He has had very few injury issues since he's been here and the one's he has had he has often played through them.

Well he's got 12 goals and 8 assists in 23 combined games vs Boston/Pitt since he's been here so he seems to be doing alright vs. them. And what's wrong with him in the playoffs? Did he not step it up when he scored the game winner in OT last year while playing injured? He obviously has not performed as well in the playoffs as the regular season while here but he played one entire playoff injured, the other was only 5 games, and once again it's a small 23 game sample size and in general you should expect lesser production (slightly, of course) in the playoffs since it is against better competition.

And I apologize if I thought you said you wanted to trade him now. I'm not entirely opposed to it in the offseason but it has to be to acquire a player who can step in and also be a big time goal scorer which is unlikely.

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03-14-2013, 11:23 PM
  #918
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Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
Now you're talking about job resumes? Great logic....

I'm focused on this season and the Rangers cap/contract situation moving forward. You want to defend the guy's reputation like it's somehow more important than what I'm concerned about? Good luck with that.

1) Gaborik's resume suggests hes not "washed up" like a few are saying and I still give him the benefit of the doubt he can turn it around.

2) Agreed on the offseason tradefront.


Last edited by BrianBoyle: 03-14-2013 at 11:32 PM.
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03-14-2013, 11:26 PM
  #919
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I believe a large portion of the panic is just because it is a short season and if there were a regular 82 game season with 55 games left you'd all be saying he's done it before, he doesn't look good now but he has plenty of time to work things out however now since the season is compressed there doesn't seem to be as much time for patience and the overreactionary fan is coming out.

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03-14-2013, 11:31 PM
  #920
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Originally Posted by SA16 View Post
I agree that his performance has been unacceptable this year. But the fact that he hasn't performed doesn't mean that he can't performed. His done it year in year out everywhere he's been. The only bad year he has ever had is two years ago. Every other year (post being real young of course) he's pretty much been on a 40 goal/PPG pace even though he was hurt a lot then. He has had very few injury issues since he's been here and the one's he has had he has often played through them.

Well he's got 12 goals and 8 assists in 23 combined games vs Boston/Pitt since he's been here so he seems to be doing alright vs. them. And what's wrong with him in the playoffs? Did he not step it up when he scored the game winner in OT last year while playing injured? He obviously has not performed as well in the playoffs as the regular season while here but he played one entire playoff injured, the other was only 5 games, and once again it's a small 23 game sample size and in general you should expect lesser production (slightly, of course) in the playoffs since it is against better competition.

And I apologize if I thought you said you wanted to trade him now. I'm not entirely opposed to it in the offseason but it has to be to acquire a player who can step in and also be a big time goal scorer which is unlikely.
Gaborik does very well against Boston (to the point where id say hes a Boston killer), Philly and Washington.

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03-14-2013, 11:35 PM
  #921
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Where have I ever said he should be traded this season? I'm an advocate of shopping him in the off-season....

And I call a spade a spade when I see it - that means criticizing players when their play warrants it, regardless of what they did 1, 2, 3 years ago for you.... Gaborik's performance this season has been unacceptable. Scoring goals in just 5 of 27 games.... You think I'm only looking at this season when I say we should trade im in the off-season? Think again.... Look at the contracts that are set to expire this season and next and you tell me where we're going to find the room to give raises to our key young & core players and also try and address our depth concerns throughout the remainder of the line-up...

Important Questions:

Do you see any signs of Gaborik turning his game around anytime soon?

Do you have any confidence Gaborik is going to figure out how to elevate his game against teams like Pittsburgh & Boston in the playoffs when the going gets tough and everything is on the line?

Do you feel optimistic he will stay 100% healthy since apparently around here, Gaborik is hurting everytime he stinks?

I can't answer YES to any of these questions.... We can keep the guy another season and likely get more of the same from him, or we can try and trade him to a Western Conference team in return for a younger forward (or forward prospect) + pick(s) and look to address our depth through the FA market.... How did those trades work out for Philly??? Sure those forwards they moved had different contracts than Gabby but they really maximized their return in those trades and they really found gems in Voracek and Simmonds... Schenn is having a strong season and a 2nd year player too..
Agreed

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Old
03-14-2013, 11:38 PM
  #922
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1) Gaborik's resume suggests hes not "washed up" like a few are saying and I still give him the benefit of the doubt he can turn it around.

2) Agreed on the offseason tradefront.
I don't think his career is done, I'm not optimistic about his ability to perform when it matters the most (playoffs) and his cap hit after adding Nash to the line-up is a large concern when we look at all the expiring contracts both this off-season and the next. I see no way the Rangers can retain him when his contract expires so I would like to see them move his contract in the off-season and try and bring assets back in the process.

If Gaborik slumps for the remainder of the season and the Rangers don't move him over the summer, they will be taking a pretty big risk banking on him to rebound next season not only during the regular season but banking on him becoming a reliable playoff performer for his final year here. I'm not optimistic he's a 'perfect fit' here when you consider the ultimate goal of the team is to win a cup, not necessarily have a spectacular regular season performance.

I don't have a bone to pick with the guy, I'm just disappointed in his effort level and lack of consistency and seeming inability to turn his game around after struggling for long streches of time. He's no Danny Briere when it comes to the post-season either.


Last edited by wolfgaze: 03-14-2013 at 11:47 PM.
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Old
03-14-2013, 11:43 PM
  #923
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He's no Danny Briere when it comes to the post-season either.

To be fair, who on this team is?

Jury's still out on Nash in the playoffs as well. Callahan disappointed.

The Jury is out on everyone but Lundqvist to be completely honest.

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03-14-2013, 11:56 PM
  #924
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I personally would be interested in seeing a graph showing the correlation between a players regular season PPG and his postseason PPG. I would guess it's just slightly less than 1 (given sufficient sample) to take into account facing tougher defenses/goalies and the possibility of less PP opportunities due to refs "letting them play" (could check PP TOI in the playoffs compared to regular season to see if that is a valid assumption though).

I'm not entirely convinced there should be much of a difference and think the whole "playoff player" is entirely overrrated and just becomes labeled to a player for how they have performed over a couple of series. Same concept as being a "winner." which doesn't really have any basis in logic either.

Like Fedotenko, for example, is considered a "playoff player" larger because of his 03-04 series where he was a huge factor with 12 goals in 22 games. But what about the rest of his playoff career with his remaining 10 goals in 86 games? Useless offensively though obviously he is a very solid defensive player.

Understanding that it should approximate a players regular season info we should not expect Gaborik to have similarly poor playoffs in the future (or perhaps maybe we can from him if his body tends to wear down after playing 82 games and he's just not physically able to play at full strength at that point moreso than others - though that's not something that can really be proven or done anything on other than speculated so it probably should be neglected)

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03-15-2013, 12:03 AM
  #925
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To be fair, who on this team is?

Jury's still out on Nash in the playoffs as well. Callahan disappointed.

The Jury is out on everyone but Lundqvist to be completely honest.
Staal, McDonagh and Girardi were amazing last year.

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