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Old
03-15-2013, 09:13 AM
  #351
pantherbot
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Originally Posted by FadeToBlack View Post
For a guy that has all the markings of a franchise D-man? Yeah. Mac is good, but I personally place him behind Drouin and would take Jones over both. Much tougher to find a franchise D than a franchise C or W, and hence, they will return more in a trade.
Franchise d-men also take too long to develop whereas a forward can contribute more quickly. We need production sooner rather than later.

I also don't want us to draft and develop a defenseman only to see him leave when he becomes productive. There is the same chance that a forward will leave when they go unrestricted, but at least we get some good contribution out of them.

Franchise D are also not as scarce as you make it seem, they are often available via free agency.

If we don't draft either Mac or Barkov, I will be disappointed. We need some good depth at centre, it's something this team has lacked since the beginning and makes a huge difference at both ends of the ice.

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03-15-2013, 09:20 AM
  #352
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And we can grab a defenseman with the 31st pick. Haha

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Old
03-15-2013, 10:15 AM
  #353
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Take a look at everything Brian Campbell brings to us. Was / is he considered a franchise defenseman?

Well, we traded a piece of garbage for him (even though Chi was trying to shed salary as well). We also picked Matheson 23rd overall. As a freshman, he has 24 pts in 32 gm (7g) and regarded as the team's best defenseman. Not too shabby. I would say he's on pace to be a potential 1 or 2 defenseman in the NHL. Maybe a future powerplay QB?

Do you guys think Bowman was willing to trade Toews / Kane? I'm willing to bet he'd laugh in DT's face at a trade proposals for Kane / Toews.

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Old
03-15-2013, 10:21 AM
  #354
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Matheson's a decent prospect with interesting tools without doubt, but don't assume he's a likely high calibre top pairing defenseman.

Kulikov is a shining example that expectations should always be reserved.

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03-15-2013, 10:50 AM
  #355
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J17 Vs Proclamation View Post
Matheson's a decent prospect with interesting tools without doubt, but don't assume he's a likely high calibre top pairing defenseman.

Kulikov is a shining example that expectations should always be reserved.
Sure its smart to reserve some expectations. But there have been plenty of guys drafted late in the 1st round that have become high caliber top pairing d-men. Heck, look no further than Washington with drafting Mike Green (#29) late in the 1st round and they did the same with John Carlson (#27 overall). The fact that Matheson is playing so much as a freshman is only going to help his development and he's not going to be rushed either by Tallon. Its extremely possible that he could develop into a top pairing guy.

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Old
03-15-2013, 11:29 AM
  #356
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Originally Posted by FadeToBlack View Post
For a guy that has all the markings of a franchise D-man? Yeah. Mac is good, but I personally place him behind Drouin and would take Jones over both. Much tougher to find a franchise D than a franchise C or W, and hence, they will return more in a trade.
There is no doubt in my mind we should take MacKinnon 1st overall if we have that pick. Great chemistry with Huberdeau. MacKinnon can skate like the wind, snipe and pass like nobody else.

Jones is great and all, but its "easier" to find good defensemen later in the draft, than elite forwards.

3 points up to the second worst team. Sucks being this bad, but injuries ruin us. I will be happy with the season if we get a top3 pick, and Huberdeau takes the Calder.

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03-15-2013, 12:04 PM
  #357
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The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of selecting Jones. Yes, defensemen take longer to develop. Yes, we need offense. However, I also think that not only is Jones the BPA but we've also still got at least Bjugstad, Grimaldi and Howden coming up over the next few seasons. If Jones develops the way the scouts think he will, it gives us the opportunity to move Kulikov down to the 2nd pairing and cultivate some sorely needed depth at defense.

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Old
03-15-2013, 12:11 PM
  #358
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Desert Panther View Post
The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of selecting Jones. Yes, defensemen take longer to develop. Yes, we need offense. However, I also think that not only is Jones the BPA but we've also still got at least Bjugstad, Grimaldi and Howden coming up over the next few seasons. If Jones develops the way the scouts think he will, it gives us the opportunity to move Kulikov down to the 2nd pairing and cultivate some sorely needed depth at defense.
I see it more as a win-win cant go wrong with any 3 imo of mackinnon, jones, or drouin each player addresses a need.

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Old
03-15-2013, 12:19 PM
  #359
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I agree with everyone's reasoning on which on the three of them to take, which makes it so incredibly hard to decide. We could use any of the three of them for different reasons to better our future. If we keep this type of play up for the remainder of the season, there's a very good chance that we'll remain in last place. I think I'm leaning more towards taking either Drouin or MacKinnon because either one would help our offense sooner than Jones might develop for us on defense, but then I see what Jones can do and he makes it a very tough decision.

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03-15-2013, 12:25 PM
  #360
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Originally Posted by Desert Panther View Post
The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of selecting Jones. Yes, defensemen take longer to develop. Yes, we need offense. However, I also think that not only is Jones the BPA but we've also still got at least Bjugstad, Grimaldi and Howden coming up over the next few seasons. If Jones develops the way the scouts think he will, it gives us the opportunity to move Kulikov down to the 2nd pairing and cultivate some sorely needed depth at defense.
We also have Kulikov, Gudbranson, Petrovic, Matheson and Robak.

Bjugstad projects to be a top 6 center, doubtful he can be a top line center.
Grimaldi has the tools, but lacks size. He could be St. Louis type of player or "enter short player that never made it".
Howden is looking like a bottom siz player, who could top out as a 2nd line winger.

We need elite talent up front. Mac, Drouin, Barkov etc.

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Old
03-15-2013, 12:37 PM
  #361
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShootIt View Post
We also have Kulikov, Gudbranson, Petrovic, Matheson and Robak.

Bjugstad projects to be a top 6 center, doubtful he can be a top line center.
Grimaldi has the tools, but lacks size. He could be St. Louis type of player or "enter short player that never made it".
Howden is looking like a bottom siz player, who could top out as a 2nd line winger.

We need elite talent up front. Mac, Drouin, Barkov etc.
There's not a single argument that can be made that would convince me to select Jones over MacKinnon.

When I think of taking a defenseman number one overall, I'm thinking Pronger, Lidstrom, Karlsson..

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Old
03-15-2013, 01:19 PM
  #362
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Why draft Seth Jones? He is a RD, we have Gudbranson and Petrovic who will be great RD for us for a long time..... We need to draft either MacKinnon or Drouin, its a no-brainer.....

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Old
03-15-2013, 01:26 PM
  #363
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShootIt View Post
Bjugstad projects to be a top 6 center, doubtful he can be a top line center.
Grimaldi has the tools, but lacks size. He could be St. Louis type of player or "enter short player that never made it".
Howden is looking like a bottom siz player, who could top out as a 2nd line winger.

We need elite talent up front. Mac, Drouin, Barkov etc.
I agree. We're always talking about not having a true 1st line. Mac & Huby should change that.

-ghoste

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Old
03-15-2013, 02:27 PM
  #364
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coolburn View Post
Sure its smart to reserve some expectations. But there have been plenty of guys drafted late in the 1st round that have become high caliber top pairing d-men. Heck, look no further than Washington with drafting Mike Green (#29) late in the 1st round and they did the same with John Carlson (#27 overall). The fact that Matheson is playing so much as a freshman is only going to help his development and he's not going to be rushed either by Tallon. Its extremely possible that he could develop into a top pairing guy.
Of course it's possible, but people seem to believe it's a likely rite of passage. I saw Gud for prez in a prospect thread saying he unquestionably should have gone top ten. I mean ... seriously.

He's projectable for sure. Skates well, big body, seems competent in his decision making and has solid offensive skills. Projects as a versatile 2 way defenseman. There are however numerous defenseman i'd still select over him in the 2013 draft. Kulikov/Gudbranson's development really should have taught people a lesson by now. Nothing is a guarantee.

I wonder if we do select #1, don't want to take Jones, and a team within the Top 6 wants Jones really badly, what would could acquire. Could be interesting.

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Old
03-15-2013, 02:46 PM
  #365
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How many times have we heard "omg this D is the real deal, too good to pass up on"?
History should've taught us by now that nothing is for sure in the draft.
Team has been literally dying for offense since forever, now we have a legit chance to fix that, and people want to pick D?
Rather take a chance on elite forward than elite D, especially in the seat we're in.
If we go for Jones I'll be very dissapointed.
Mac NO BRAINER.

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Old
03-15-2013, 02:58 PM
  #366
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Why draft Seth Jones? He is a RD, we have Gudbranson and Petrovic who will be great RD for us for a long time..... We need to draft either MacKinnon or Drouin, its a no-brainer.....
I dont understand that. Why do all the "experts" think we will draft Jones. I mean MacKinnon and Huby should have great chemistry ala Jonathan Toews and Patrick Kane. Markstrom will get better as the time moves on and our D hopefully as well with some more young guys stepping in.

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Old
03-15-2013, 04:33 PM
  #367
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With the way we play in our own zone I would not be disappointed taking a defenseman. So what if some defenseman busted, there are plenty of others that did not. Tampa Bay has some of the best forwards in the NHL on the same team yet they still suck. Other than Huberdeau we don't have elite forwards. Other than Gudbrandson we don't have any elite defenseman. Going in either direction would not hurt. They both impact the game in their respective ways.

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Old
03-15-2013, 04:49 PM
  #368
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I dont understand that. Why do all the "experts" think we will draft Jones. I mean MacKinnon and Huby should have great chemistry ala Jonathan Toews and Patrick Kane. Markstrom will get better as the time moves on and our D hopefully as well with some more young guys stepping in.
? I think you read my post wrong. I'm saying we should not draft Jones because we have solid Right-handed d-men in Guds and Petro moving forward. Draft Mac to play with Huby, if he's not available draft Drouin. It's a no-brainer. Drafting Jones shouldn't be an option for us at all.....

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03-15-2013, 05:27 PM
  #369
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If I'm gonna eat my vegetables and put up with the tank, I want a shiny new goal-scorer for dessert.

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03-15-2013, 05:30 PM
  #370
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyRulez View Post
? I think you read my post wrong. I'm saying we should not draft Jones because we have solid Right-handed d-men in Guds and Petro moving forward. Draft Mac to play with Huby, if he's not available draft Drouin. It's a no-brainer. Drafting Jones shouldn't be an option for us at all.....
Not how any organisation should base decisions on. Need has merit in specific situations whereby you are incredibly strong in one area, and the other availabilities are similar in percieved worth. You don't not draft a player simply due to two promising but unestablished young players ; players who aren't comparable to Jones in many ways. If the Panther scouts belueve Jones is the best player available, you don't pass up on him because of Gudbranson/Petrovic.

Or to put it more simply ; you don't pass up on a potential two way impact defenseman because you have two solid, projectable, but somewhat unspectacular defenseman who happen to grip the stick the same way.

I would actually prefer us to go Forward too, but it has nothing to do with relatively unproven assets in our organisation.

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Old
03-15-2013, 05:31 PM
  #371
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With the way we play in our own zone I would not be disappointed taking a defenseman. So what if some defenseman busted, there are plenty of others that did not. Tampa Bay has some of the best forwards in the NHL on the same team yet they still suck. Other than Huberdeau we don't have elite forwards. Other than Gudbrandson we don't have any elite defenseman. Going in either direction would not hurt. They both impact the game in their respective ways.
Pretty much.

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03-15-2013, 06:02 PM
  #372
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If I'm gonna eat my vegetables and put up with the tank, I want a shiny new goal-scorer for dessert.
agreed lol

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03-15-2013, 06:06 PM
  #373
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Originally Posted by J17 Vs Proclamation View Post
Not how any organisation should base decisions on. Need has merit in specific situations whereby you are incredibly strong in one area, and the other availabilities are similar in percieved worth. You don't not draft a player simply due to two promising but unestablished young players ; players who aren't comparable to Jones in many ways. If the Panther scouts belueve Jones is the best player available, you don't pass up on him because of Gudbranson/Petrovic.

Or to put it more simply ; you don't pass up on a potential two way impact defenseman because you have two solid, projectable, but somewhat unspectacular defenseman who happen to grip the stick the same way.

I would actually prefer us to go Forward too, but it has nothing to do with relatively unproven assets in our organisation.
good point but that high up in the draft, I go franchise forward over d-man

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03-15-2013, 07:03 PM
  #374
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its weird how i get more and more worried when i think we DO get the #1 pick, because if we do then theres a high possibility that we pick Jones, which wouldnt be the worst thing in the world obviously lol but i want mac sooooo much more (or drouin). if a team wins that pick and we choose second, then that may actually be better given the first team selects Jones that is, then we'd have to take mackinnon or drouin. we have campbell, gudbranson, kulikov, petrovic, matheson, i think tallon will go with mackinnon (i hope).

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Old
03-16-2013, 05:10 AM
  #375
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Islanders fan perspective, this is actually pretty simple for Florida trade down to 2 or 3 & take your man MacKinnon, Barkov or Drouin. Let a team more desperate for Seth Jones take him & give you something nice at the same time.

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