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By The Numbers Hockey Analytics... the Final Frontier. Explore strange new worlds, to seek out new algorithms, to boldly go where no one has gone before.

"HHOF Monitor" (1917-18/2005-06)

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07-29-2006, 09:19 AM
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pnep
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Location: Novosibirsk,Russia
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"HHOF Monitor" (1917-18/2005-06)

This is new version of my research....

PlayerCar.Seas.POSAdj. GMSAdj. PTS or Adj.WINSAdj. PO GMSAdj. PO PTS or Adj.PO WINSCapt.HARTSHART Runner Up1 ALL STARS2 ALL STARSGOAL #1GOAL #2PTS #1PTS #2NORRISNORRIS Runner UpVEZINASVEZINA Runner UpCONN SMYTHECUPSFINALS HHOF?HHOF Mon. PTS
Gretzky Wayne1979/199920C15442509213327149187501120000242Y7505.20
Howe Gordie1946/198026R2063211430731646112955610000147Y6401.00
Lemieux Mario1984/200617C927156910715913335430610000220Y4250.00
Richard Maurice1942/196018R125411742642234128653050000284Y4205.00
Hull Bobby1957/198016L1204122420020702210272330000013Y4138.00
Bourque Ray1979/200122D16671451217167150213600005600012Y4066.00
Beliveau Jean1950/197120C12931339295314102463211200002103Y4055.50
Esposito Phil1963/198118C137215011901693226261530000023Y3989.00
Orr Bobby1966/197912D701875981130308100238000221Y3655.00
Jagr Jaromir1990/200615R114315501491573147104520000020F3546.00
                          
Mikita Stan1958/198022C153114612522232216303410000114Y3402.00
Shore Eddie1926/194014D9726541255804110200008100022Y3381.80
Harvey Doug1947/196920D131665226714510110100008200065Y3353.20
Hall Glenn1952/197118G967443209900007400000036116Y3171.50
Plante Jacques1952/197318G9224772091340103400000071164Y3089.50
Kelly Red1947/196720D15649743271832016200003400084Y2973.00
Messier Mark1979/200425C1809176824125816214100010000161F2826.00
Lafleur Guy1971/199117R116111651621490216013300000150Y2774.50
Roy Patrick1984/200319G10565612481520014200000032341Y2668.50
Sawchuk Terry1949/197021G10694922061070003400000042243Y2654.00
Morenz Howie1923/193714C10621114120850315211200000131Y2612.00
Lindsay Ted1944/196517L132710542651974008112130000044Y2589.00
Hasek Dominik1990/200614G66533697530216000000060012F2585.00
Dryden Ken1970/19798G3972581501070015100000050160Y2487.00
Benedict Clint1917/193013G887480138820105300000052041Y2468.00
Denneny Cy1917/192912L912776120513018112150000050Y2405.00
Bossy Mike1977/198710R7729191401360005323010000141Y2379.50
Sakic Joe1988/200617C1274155516219214103001020000120F2291.00
Coffey Paul1980/200121D145813741991750004400013200043Y2277.00
Lidstrom Nicklas1991/200614D11248701741270007000004300131F2276.10
Geoffrion Bernie1950/196816R10299492612360101220200000164Y2251.50
Trottier Bryan1975/199418C131011892401630122200110000161Y2232.50
Potvin Denis1973/198815D10908812101538015200003200041Y2189.40
Cook Bill1926/193711R8457771137711024231200000022Y2141.50
Mahovlich Frank1956/197418L133011352391820003604000000062Y2138.50
Clancy King1921/193716D1219733150492005500002400033Y2134.40
Boucher Frank1921/194414C102610401371170004400010000123Y2126.00
Durnan Bill1943/19507G49827790541016000000060021Y2124.50
Hull Brett1985/200620R130814192011884103031010000022F2089.50
Pilote Pierre1955/196914D10315451621117005300003300112Y2074.70
Clarke Bobby1969/198415C118610621701259312200020000022Y2073.00
Brimsek Frank1938/195010G704358136640012600000023022Y2070.00
Clapper Dit1927/194720R14368231796614014301002100033Y2054.80
Dionne Marcel1971/198918C1389149858451012202130000000Y2053.00
Yzerman Steve1983/200622C1561168119618619001002000000131F2027.50
Chelios Chris1983/200622D15209042311235005200003200022F2023.40
Kurri Jari1980/199817R129612042051960002311020000052Y1984.00
Conacher Charlie1929/194112R795740114883013250200000113Y1983.40
Boucher George1917/193215D1127565128252005300014100040Y1972.40
Stewart Nels1925/194015C11641077129944200121110000111Y1966.50
                          
Broda Turk1936/195214G8634122051210002100000023153Y1960.00
Cleghorn Sprague1918/192810D740403117443024300002400032Y1955.90
Apps C.J. Syl1936/194810C681648141996032300030000133Y1950.00
Vezina Georges1917/19269G57831668470002600000034012Y1946.00
Thompson Tiny1928/194012G869448102560003300000041111Y1898.00
Nighbor Frank1917/193013C923688109620223300010000040Y1897.00
Delvecchio Alex1950/197424C1769139423920612000200000000035Y1896.10
Richard Henri1955/197520C1418110930621440013000100000111Y1857.50
Joliat Aurel1922/193816L12791093137860103502010000031Y1852.50
Lach Elmer1940/195414C9167831501090113201200000133Y1845.50
Brodeur Martin1991/200613G840458153890002300000023031F1825.00
Park Brad1968/198517D11557892021352005200000600003Y1822.20
Robinson Larry1972/199220D14248062601420003300002100161Y1810.70
Cowley Bill1934/194713C911789132880214100110000122Y1794.50
Macinnis Al1981/200423D145312211791502004300001300111F1782.00
Dye Babe1919/193111R71752844160102233210000110Y1780.00
Francis Ron1981/200423C1778173917213714000000000000021F1714.00
Moore Dickie1951/196814L8416902582100002111200000064Y1701.00
Esposito Tony1968/198416G886423125570013200000031012Y1699.50
Blake Toe1934/194814L941719120988103201100000131Y1655.00
Schmidt Milt1936/195516C1089816174955113101100000122Y1646.50
Bathgate Andy1952/197117R12381078108673112200110000011Y1646.50
Robitaille Luc1986/200619L147213841591202005300000000011F1646.00
Stevens Scott1982/200422D168485423511313002300000200131F1644.50
Kennedy Ted1942/195714C9056951541098110300000000350Y1627.50
Seibert Earl1931/194615D1093431142412004600002100023Y1603.00
Bucyk John1955/197823L171313721881336001101000000024Y1595.00
Selanne Teemu1992/200613R988112665481002231020000000F1585.50
Hainsworth George1926/193711G740391126711003100000030122Y1579.50
Bower Johnny1953/197015G629285145700011000000024142Y1542.50
Ullman Norm1955/197520C158612781941490011110010000005Y1533.00
Forsberg Peter1994/200611C6739231391800103000110000020F1505.50
Cournoyer Yvan1963/197916R104181921815940004000000001101Y1463.50
Bouchard Emile Butch1941/195615D1056241224558003100001200045Y1461.10
Fedorov Sergei1990/200615C108511271621700101000010000031F1449.50
Abel Sid1938/195414C8526141931038102210010000034Y1446.50
Lumley Harry1943/196016G953398152580012000000015014Y1446.00
Jackson Busher1929/194415L1087831160710004101110000016Y1436.50
Bentley Doug1939/195413L82668946233013120120000001Y1427.50
Horton Tim1949/197424D1646567229860003300000200042Y1427.20
Bentley Max1940/195412C876698100880101101200000030Y1415.00
Gadsby Bill1946/196620D1492677134522003400000300003Y1401.40
Keon Dave1960/198218C14209681631107000200000000140Y1391.00
Lalonde Newsy1917/19276C36031928295112211210000001Y1388.50
Belfour Ed1988/200617G931471161880002100000021012F1387.50
Stewart Jack1938/195212D829158160372003200002100124Y1370.90
Parent Bernie1965/197913G61827395510012000000021221Y1365.50
Schriner Sweeney1934/194611L820653123523002101210000021Y1337.50
Leetch Brian1987/200618D1244106195943002300002000110F1325.90
Worsley Lorne Gump1952/197421G943366119680001100000022041Y1325.00
                          
Smith Billy1971/198918G680305147970001000000013141Y1320.50
Malone Joe1917/19247C4422872340201020200000011Y1312.50
Fuhr Grant1981/200019G876403153940011100000011051Y1312.50
Giacomin Ed1965/197813G62029289390012300000012001Y1307.00
Kariya Paul1994/200611L77288841397013200000000001F1297.50
Cameron Harry1917/19236D46031163330004200002200020Y1292.90
Barrasso Tom1983/200319G776367119610001200000013020F1282.50
Goodfellow Ebbie1929/194314D959632106425102100011000032Y1257.30
Drillon Gordie1936/19437R527458103760002110110000113Y1254.00
Pronovost Marcel1949/197021D1407401267750002200000100054Y1253.50
Shanahan Brendan1987/200618L138812761571151002100000000030F1224.00
Bure Pavel1991/200312R73183764651001230010000001F1221.00
Connell Alex1924/193712G71733650350001200000013120Y1213.00
Gardiner Chuck1927/19347G50417649351003100000022011Y1203.00
Conacher Roy1938/195211L69658984560001014100000021Y1195.50
Gilmour Doug1983/200320C151913511841704010000000000010F1190.50
Laperriere Jacques1962/197412D765291135420002300001100061Y1185.40
Broadbent Harry Punch1918/192911R782428115381011310100000140Y1173.00
Hextall Bryan Sr.1936/194811R72548575320003121110000010Y1170.50
Siebert Babe1925/193914L1040692127483103100001000021Y1167.30
Naslund Markus1993/200612L87978833315013001020000000F1161.00
Lindros Eric1992/200612C74193550596101100100000001F1149.00
Barry Marty1927/194012C884736105940001001010000121Y1147.00
Stanley Allan1948/196921D1455500216843000300000100044Y1144.80
Nieuwendyk Joe1986/200619C128111401581154000000000000131F1138.00
Conacher Lionel1925/193712D90045984102021200000200120Y1136.80
Langway Rod1978/199315D10192691102411012100002000010Y1133.70
Provost Claude1955/197015R11596372361130001001000000091F1130.50
Iginla Jarome1995/200610R70863835362021120100000001F1130.00
Mantha Sylvio1923/193714D1050388120249003300000100031Y1124.60
Perreault Gil1970/198717C12301138110996000200000000001Y1121.00
Smith Hooley1924/194117C1297950131524012100000000021Y1114.00
Ratelle Jean1960/198121C137211861641130000100000000003Y1106.00
Hawerchuk Dale1981/199716C1222121297866010100000000001Y1098.00
Oates Adam1985/200419C138014251631472000100000000002F1084.50
Goulet Michel1979/199415L111295595640003201000000001Y1082.50
Howe Syd1929/194617C1190823153922000100020000033Y1081.00
Sundin Mats1990/200615C1189124583848000201000000000F1077.50
Noble Reg1917/193316D124872294243011300000000030Y1067.90
Modano Mike1988/200617C120212351491412000100000000012F1052.50
Niedermayer Scott1991/200614D1004590162792002100001100031F1048.30
Johnson Tom1947/196517D1145310220480001100001000064Y1046.80
Mogilny Alexander1989/200616R10231078124891000210000000011F1046.50
Leclair John1990/200615L975905154900002300000000011F1044.50
Olmstead Bert1948/196214L9967302281200000200000000056Y1044.00
Quackenbush Bill1942/195614D1010369159420003200000200004Y1043.90
Anderson Glenn1980/199616R11749362301800000000000000061F1038.00
Gainey Bob1973/198916L1191413211728000000000000151Y1034.50
Lemaire Jacques1967/197912C8947731941600000000000000080Y1027.50
Lapointe Guy1968/198416D914550160790001300000100060Y1012.80
                          
Mullen Joe1979/199717R1109932145890001000000000031Y1010.00
Recchi Mark1988/200617R129313171351150000100000000020F1008.50
Howe Mark1979/199516D961617102520003000000300003F1007.20
Thompson Paul1926/193913L103470811870001110001000003101002.00
Bauer Bobby1935/195210R53839398350000401010000021Y1001.50
Murphy Larry1980/200121D166911222181410000300000000040Y985.30
Shutt Steve1972/198513L9576881241070001210000000050Y984.00
Rousseau Bobby1960/197515R104872220412400001000100000420982.00
Talbot Jean Guy1954/197117D1210308270520001000000000074F981.00
Kerr Dave1930/194111G665319914200011000000130110977.50
Armstrong George1949/197121R136879421311212000000000000042Y973.00
Weiland Cooney1928/193911C887678105621001110100000022Y962.00
Vernon Mike1982/200219G799396139780000100000001122F960.00
Salming Borje1973/199017D118166795460001500000200000Y957.40
Hollett Flash1933/194613D9464561635930011000011000230945.80
Fleury Theo1988/200315R11201138777620001010000000100929.00
Barber Bill1972/198412L9317491621092001200000000022Y928.00
Savard Denis1980/199717C124711431721501000100000000010Y924.00
Stevens Kevin1987/200215L896710103930001201010000020F920.00
Savard Serge1966/198317D1084395170772000100000000170Y915.80
Blake Rob1989/200616D1000675125696001300001000011F914.50
Turgeon Pierre1987/200618C13181336109982000000000000000F907.00
Johnson Ching1926/193812D770208151210012200000100023Y905.60
O'Connor Buddy1941/195110C734490106611100100010000022Y900.00
Stastny Peter1980/199515C1004101996955000000010000000Y900.00
Tkachuk Keith1991/200614L92796481567000210000000000F897.50
Pronger Chris1993/200612D830508109776101200001000001F893.60
Backstrom Ralph1956/197317C11686592039500000000000000620893.50
Bailey Ace I.1926/19348R56749550260011110100000011Y883.50
Mcdonald Lanny1973/198916R1141837133799000201000000011Y881.80
Burch Billy1922/193311C807506507100101000000000Y878.00
Vachon Rogie1966/198216G79835769330010200000011031F875.50
Gilbert Rod1960/197818R1159995109850001100000000001Y872.50
Carbonneau Guy1980/200019C13656002348350000000000000320872.50
Lemieux Claude1983/200320R123677923415200000000000001410871.50
Duff Dick1954/197218L11836162101350000000000000063Y871.00
Goring Butch1969/198516C1146772150790000000000000141F870.00
Liut Mike1979/199213G66429471290011100000001000F868.00
Dumart Woody1935/195416L1089609178530000301010000022Y863.30
Andreychuk Dave1982/200623L16871270162923000000000000010F863.00
Stewart Gaye1941/195411L669427492010111100100000210858.50
Dillon Ceece1930/194010R7785611005900012010000001120855.50
Pulford Bob1956/197216L1230680175951000000000000142Y849.00
Brewer Carl1957/198012D6912371383700013000001000320844.90
Cain Herb1933/194613L9615661425000001021000000220843.00
Trembley J.C.1959/197213D8963751811020001000000100051F842.50
Reardon Ken1940/19507D49016862130002300002000011Y839.10
Smith Sid1946/195812L712459865310012000000000300838.50
Martin Rick1971/198211L710620805600022010000000010837.00
Thornton Joe1997/20068C59060446293101100100000000F826.00
                          
Hodge Ken1964/197814R9447581369700020000000000210826.00
Bondra Peter1990/200615R107695180570000020000000001F822.50
Goyette Phil1956/197216C10707121627600000000000000420821.00
Damphousse Vincent1986/200418L1420121714010240000000000000100819.80
Patrick Lynn1934/194610L77152096350001110020000011Y816.00
Pratt Babe1935/194712D859399133520101100000100021Y816.00
Roenick Jeremy1988/200617C120811801361150000000000000001F812.00
Gillies Clark1974/198814L983583189853002000000000041Y810.00
Sittler Darryl1970/198515C113396394796000100000000000Y808.50
Primeau Joe1927/19369C54455690710000100020000013Y808.00
Worters Roy1925/193712G8162942890110200000011000Y808.00
Wharram Kenny1951/196914R8865701547800020010000000120808.00
Lafontaine Pat1983/199815C89492171535000100010000001Y803.50
Tonelli John1978/199214L10556881829900002000000000420800.00
Brind'Amour Rod1988/200617C122310211411071000000000000012F799.50
Mckenney Don1954/196813C9336641128920000000000000130797.00
Cashman Wayne1964/198317L107070718610260001000000000230795.50
Lowe Kevin1979/199819D13073702195110000000000000610795.40
Middleton Rick1974/198814R10308141319330001000000000030784.50
Cook Bun1926/193711L841707113480000300000000022Y771.50
Neely Cam1983/199613R77064393760000401000000002Y771.50
Nicholls Bernie1981/199918C117810921191050000001000000000F764.00
Smith Bobby1978/199315C110385019013400000000000000130763.00
Coulter Art1931/194211D794195108225000400000100021Y762.80
Gartner Mike1979/199819R14801165124800000000000000000Y759.50
Hitchman Lionel1922/193412D842212981640101000001000220757.60
Thomson James R.1945/195813D9603161243100002000001000400753.40
Hextall Ron1986/199913G627306934700010000000101020751.00
Ciccarelli Dino1980/199919R127910741451020000000000000002F750.00
Tikkanen Esa1984/199915L91559318711800000000000000510749.50
Rayner Chuck1940/195310G53617336180100300000000101Y748.50
Vanbiesbrouck John1981/200220G906384722900011000000110010748.00
Bellows Brian1982/199917R12339081461101000100000000012F747.50
Chabot Lorne1926/193711G677331923900010000000100210746.50
Mosdell Kenny1941/195916C8793931585800011000000000450744.50
Mosienko Bill1941/195514R93867244230000201000000001Y744.00
Leach Reggie1970/198313R9645721187300001100000001120739.00
Wilson Doug1977/199316D1049682996620012000010000000739.00
Yashin Alexei1993/200611C823827433120101010000000000738.50
Roach John1921/193514G934422895000010000000010120736.00
Gerard Eddie1917/19236L46525690124000300001000040Y734.10
Day Hap1924/193814D10715381293310000100000000013Y729.40
Peeters Pete1978/199113G490246743700110000000110010716.00
Boucher Billy1921/19287R547351582500012020000000120715.50
Carr Lorne1933/194613R9786031113200020010000000200715.50
Gottselig Johnny1928/194516L1021689986650001000000000220713.50
Larmer Steve1980/199515R105588814211300000000000000110710.00
Marshall Don1951/197219L13496231794300001000000000510708.50
Darragh Jack1917/19246R43626669252002000000000230Y708.00
Watson Harry1941/195714L1047555123460000001000000050Y699.50
Linden Trevor1988/200617R12818531128590000000000000010696.00
Howell Harry1952/197321D161245768102001000001000000Y694.60
                          
Flaman Fernie1944/196117D1095257124246000300000000012Y682.70
                          
Alfredsson Daniel1995/200610R70673879636000100000000000F682.00
                          
Amonte Tony1990/200615R1125943935620000010000000000671.50
                          
St.Louis Martin1998/20067R44435939470101000100000010F670.50
Weight Doug1990/200615C1013963927520000000000000100670.50
                          
Colville Neil1935/194912C74542999584000300000000011Y660.60
                          
Desjardins Eric1988/200617D11756131687830002000000000120645.10
Nolan Owen1990/200414R949810583850000010000000000643.00
Elias Patrik1995/200610L5965691111050001000000000021F638.50
                          
Cheevers Gerry1961/198013G423231115700000000000001022Y630.50
                          
Smith Clint1936/194711C79353885371000000000000011Y626.00
Guerin Bill1991/200614R97973596500000101000000010F623.50
                          
Federko Bernie1976/199014C102792696821000000000000000Y621.00
Housley Phil1982/200321D1542117086500000100000000001F620.40
                          
Joseph Curtis1989/200616G8794401316200000000000010000603.00
                          
Larionov Igor1989/200414C9496871509900000000000000300598.50
Young Scott1987/200617R12177911419200000000000000200596.50
Hejduk Milan1998/20067R54453399770000110000000010F594.50
                          
Mellanby Scott1985/200620R14038211325050000000000000020592.50
Kovalev Alexei1992/200613R9488221008900000000000000100590.00
                          
Zubov Sergei1992/200613D9587471471140000100000000021F558.10
                          
Hatcher Derian1991/200614D94634411832100001000000000110555.60
                          
Lewis Herbie1928/193911L84462293611000000000000021Y542.00
                          
Lehtinen Jere1995/200610R648435874500000000000000110528.50
                          
Horner Red1928/194012D852310163442000000000000016Y523.90
                          
Richards Brad2000/20065C40840739440000000000000110F513.50
                          
Boivin Leo1951/197019D1331352108263000000000000003Y496.90
                          
Kiprusoff Miikka2000/20065G15980371900010000000110010491.00
Theodore Jose1995/200610G358142371501001000000100000491.00
                          
Oliver Harry1926/193711R82348085570000100000000012Y486.00
                          
Kovalchuk Ilya2001/20064L305337000000110010000000F483.50
                          
Dutton Red1926/193610D8002594824000100000100001Y470.40
                          
Adams Jack J.1917/19277C4973122820001100000000020Y463.00
                          
Gomez Scott1999/20066C47643186560000000000000021F452.50
                          
Bertuzzi Todd1995/200610R71058524150001000000000000F423.50
                          
Gardiner Herb1926/19293D188692280100100001000000Y407.50
                          
Chara Zdeno1997/20068D53019345150001100000100000F406.60
                          
Laprade Edgar1945/195510C64336536270000000000000001Y379.50
                          
Hossa Marian1997/20068R54753751390000000000000000F377.50
                          
Samsonov Sergei1997/20068L533441594100000000000000010343.50
                          
Tanguay Alex1999/20066L45044483550000000000000010F342.00
                          
Fetisov Viacheslav1989/19989D562226116290000000000000021Y335.30
                          
Pitre Didier1917/19236R46420733190001100000000001Y333.50
                          
Lecavalier Vincent1998/20067C547448392920000000000000100329.00
                          
Heatley Dany2001/20064L27231110120000100000000000F312.50
                          
Hall Joe1917/19192D148592840000200000100001Y300.50
                          
Datsyuk Pavel2001/20064C284264421700000000000000100279.00
                          
Hay George1926/19347C44037419221000000000000000Y254.00
                          
Irvin Dick1926/19293C175187543000000010000000Y252.50
                          
Jovanovski Ed1995/200610D68735258310000000000000001F249.40
                          
Holmes Harry Hap1917/19284G2148828160000000000001010Y233.00
                          
Gagne Simon1999/20066L426358653600000000000000000229.00
                          
Ward Cam2005/20061G2814231500000000000001100217.00
                          
Staal Eric2003/20062C163134252700001000000000100215.00
                          
Cheechoo Jonathan2002/20063R229166282100000100000000000214.00
                          
Ovechkin Alexander2005/20061L81105000001000000000000F197.50
                          
Frederickson Frank1926/19315C30824123260000000000000001Y191.50
                          
Nash Rick2002/20063L208166000000010000000000F188.00
                          
Gaborik Marian2000/20065R36030518190000000000000000F176.50
                          
Havlat Martin2000/20065R29826951380000000000000000F172.50
                          
Mackay Mickey1926/19304C2741702900000000000000011Y160.00
                          
Keats Duke1926/19293C154158000000000000000000Y109.00
Green Wilf Shorty1923/19274R272178000000000000000000Y109.00
                          
Simpson Joe1925/19316D438106500000000000000000Y100.70
                          
Crawford Rusty1917/19192L16152860000000000000010Y82.00
                          
Hyland Harry1917/19181R6322001000000000000000Y36.00
                          
Foyston Frank1926/19282L11968000000000000000000Y34.00
                          
Walker Jack1926/19282C14953000000000000000000Y26.50
                          
Laviolette Jack1917/19181D676800000000000000000Y18.00
                          
Lehman Hugh1926/19282G8234500000000000000000Y17.00
                          
Patrick Lester1926/19282D20300000000000000010Y12.40
                          
Ross Art1917/19181D111000000000000000000Y2.30
                          
Smith Tommy1919/19201C343000000000000000000Y1.50


Last edited by pnep: 11-15-2013 at 01:04 AM.
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07-29-2006, 09:21 AM
  #2
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Calculation..

"HHOF Monitor" formula for Goalies =

Adjusted Wins/2 +
Adjusted PO Wins*4 +

Cup - 50 pts (minimum 4 Adj PO Wins) +
Final - 25 pts (minimum 4 Adj PO Wins) +

All Star Games - 5 pts +

Calder - 50 "HHOF Monitor" pts +
Calder Runner Up - 30 "HHOF Monitor" pts +

1 ALL STAR TEAM - "HHOF Monitor" 150 pts (seasons 1917-81); "HHOF Monitor" 75 pts (seasons 1981-06) +
2 ALL STAR TEAM - "HHOF Monitor" 100 pts (seasons 1917-81); "HHOF Monitor" 50 pts (seasons 1981-06) +

Vezina - "HHOF Monitor" 100 pts (seasons 1917-81); "HHOF Monitor" 150 pts (seasons 1981-06) +
Vezina Runner Up - "HHOF Monitor" 75 pts (seasons 1917-81); "HHOF Monitor" 125 pts (seasons 1981-06) +

CONN SMYTHE - "HHOF Monitor" 100 pts +

Hart - "HHOF Monitor" 150 pts +
Hart Runner Up - "HHOF Monitor" 100 pts





"HHOF Monitor" formula for LW,C,RW =

Adjusted PTS/2 +
Adjusted PO PTS +

Captainship - "HHOF Monitor" 15 pts per season +

Top 10 in Goals after Season - "HHOF Monitor" 10 pts +
# 1 in Goals, Reg. Season - "HHOF Monitor" 100 pts +
# 2 in Goals, Reg. Season - "HHOF Monitor" 70 pts +
Top 10 in PTS, Reg. Season - "HHOF Monitor" 10 pts +
# 1 in PTS, Reg. Season - "HHOF Monitor" 150 pts +
# 2 in PTS, Reg. Season - "HHOF Monitor" 100 pts +

Cup - "HHOF Monitor" 50 pts (minimum 5 Adj PO GMS) +
Final - "HHOF Monitor" 25 pts (minimum 5 Adj PO GMS) +

All Star Game - "HHOF Monitor" 5 pts +

HART - "HHOF Monitor" 150 pts +
HART Runner Up - "HHOF Monitor" 100 pts +

BYNG - "HHOF Monitor" 75 pts +

1 ALL STAR TEAM - "HHOF Monitor" 75 pts +
2 ALL STAR TEAM - "HHOF Monitor" 50 pts +

CALDER - "HHOF Monitor" 50 pts +
CALDER Runner Up - "HHOF Monitor" 30 pts +

SELKE - "HHOF Monitor" 50 pts +
SELKE Runner Up - "HHOF Monitor" 35 pts +

CONN SMYTHE - "HHOF Monitor" 100 pts





"HHOF Monitor" formula for DEF =

Adjusted Games/5 +
Adjusted Pts/10 +
Adjusted PO Games/2 +
Adjusted PO Pts/4 +

Captainship - "HHOF Monitor" 15 pts per season +

Top 10 in Goals after Season - "HHOF Monitor" 10 pts +
# 1 in Goals after Season - "HHOF Monitor" 100 pts +
# 2 in Goals after Season - "HHOF Monitor" 70 pts +
Top 10 in PTS after Season - "HHOF Monitor" 10 pts +
# 1 in PTS after Season - "HHOF Monitor" 150 pts +
# 2 in PTS after Season - "HHOF Monitor" 100 pts +

Cup - "HHOF Monitor" 50 pts (minimum 5 Adj PO GMS) +
Final - "HHOF Monitor" 25 pts (minimum 5 Adj PO GMS) +

All Star Game - "HHOF Monitor" 5 pts +

HART - "HHOF Monitor" 150 pts +
HART Runner Up - "HHOF Monitor" 100 pts +

1 ALL STAR TEAM - "HHOF Monitor" 75 pts +
2 ALL STAR TEAM - "HHOF Monitor" 50 pts +

CALDER - "HHOF Monitor" 50 pts +
CALDER Runner Up - "HHOF Monitor" 30 pts +

NORRIS - "HHOF Monitor" 150 pts +
NORRIS Runner UP - "HHOF Monitor" 125 pts +

CONN SMYTHE - "HHOF Monitor" 100 pts


Last edited by pnep: 03-12-2010 at 12:51 PM.
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07-29-2006, 09:24 AM
  #3
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Projected Awards Winners used for:

1 and 2 ALL STAR TEAMS (Seasons 1917-18/1929-30)
CALDER and CALDER Runner Up (Seasons 1921-22/1931-32)
CONN SMYTHE (Seasons 1917-18/1963-64)
HART and HART Runner Up (Seasons 1917-18/1922-23)
BYNG (Seasons 1917-18/1923-24)
NORRIS and NORRIS Runner Up (Seasons 1917-18/1952-53)
VEZINA and VEZINA Runner Up (Seasons 1917-18/1925-26)

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07-29-2006, 09:48 AM
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A fine exercise in arbitrary number crunching, pnep. If you're taking suggestions, I think the captaincy weight is too high. I also think that introducing a weight for team performance would be beneficial.

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07-29-2006, 12:33 PM
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pnep, well-done!

In regards to the question of whether or not captaincy is rated too highly, my guess is that pnep ran some regression to determine his weights.

Similar to what Bill James did in baseball, it's not meant to be a metric of who should be in the Hall of Fame, but who will be in the Hall of Fame based on predilections of voters.

Is that correct, pnep? I don't want to misrepresent you.


Last edited by Doctor No: 08-06-2006 at 05:08 PM.
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07-31-2006, 02:03 AM
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Quote:
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Is that correct, pnep? I don't want to misrepresent you.
yes, that is correct.

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07-31-2006, 02:09 AM
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Best eligible NHL players not in Hall of Fame


Player Name -- YEAR1 -- YEAR2 -- POS -- HHOF Monitor
================================================== ====
Barrasso Tom -- 1983-84 -- 2002-03 -- G -- 1282,5
Bure Pavel -- 1991-92 -- 2002-03 -- RW -- 1221
Gilmour Doug -- 1983-84 -- 2002-03 -- C -- 1190,5
Provost Claude -- 1955-56 -- 1969-70 -- RW -- 1130,5
Anderson Glenn -- 1980-81 -- 1995-96 -- RW -- 1038
Howe Mark -- 1979-80 -- 1994-95 -- D -- 1007,15
Thompson Paul -- 1926-27 -- 1938-39 -- LW -- 1002

Rousseau Bobby -- 1960-61 -- 1974-75 -- RW -- 982
Talbot Jean Guy -- 1954-55 -- 1970-71 -- D -- 981
Kerr Dave -- 1930-31 -- 1940-41 -- G -- 977,5
Vernon Mike -- 1982-83 -- 2001-02 -- G -- 960
Hollett Flash -- 1933-34 -- 1945-46 -- D -- 945,8
Fleury Theo -- 1988-89 -- 2002-03 -- RW -- 929
Stevens Kevin -- 1987-88 -- 2001-02 -- LW -- 920

Backstrom Ralph -- 1956-57 -- 1972-73 -- C -- 893,5
Vachon Rogie -- 1966-67 -- 1981-82 -- G -- 875,5
Carbonneau Guy -- 1980-81 -- 1999-00 -- C -- 872,5
Lemieux Claude -- 1983-84 -- 2002-03 -- RW -- 871,5
Goring Butch -- 1969-70 -- 1984-85 -- C -- 870
Liut Mike -- 1979-80 -- 1991-92 -- G -- 868
Stewart Gaye -- 1941-42 -- 1953-54 -- LW -- 858,5
Dillon Ceece -- 1930-31 -- 1939-40 -- RW -- 855,5
Brewer Carl -- 1957-58 -- 1979-80 -- D -- 844,9
Cain Herb -- 1933-34 -- 1945-46 -- LW -- 843
Trembley J.C. -- 1959-60 -- 1971-72 -- D -- 842,45
Smith Sid -- 1946-47 -- 1957-58 -- LW -- 838,5
Martin Rick -- 1971-72 -- 1981-82 -- LW -- 837
Hodge Ken -- 1964-65 -- 1977-78 -- RW -- 826
Goyette Phil -- 1956-57 -- 1971-72 -- C -- 821
Wharram Kenny -- 1951-52 -- 1968-69 -- RW -- 808
Tonelli John -- 1978-79 -- 1991-92 -- LW -- 800

Mckenney Don -- 1954-55 -- 1967-68 -- C -- 797
Cashman Wayne -- 1964-65 -- 1982-83 -- LW -- 795,5
Lowe Kevin -- 1979-80 -- 1997-98 -- D -- 795,4
Middleton Rick -- 1974-75 -- 1987-88 -- RW -- 784,5
Nicholls Bernie -- 1981-82 -- 1998-99 -- C -- 764
Smith Bobby -- 1978-79 -- 1992-93 -- C -- 763
Hitchman Lionel -- 1922-23 -- 1933-34 -- D -- 757,6
Thomson James R. -- 1945-46 -- 1957-58 -- D -- 753,35
Hextall Ron -- 1986-87 -- 1998-99 -- G -- 751
Ciccarelli Dino -- 1980-81 -- 1998-99 -- RW -- 750
Tikkanen Esa -- 1984-85 -- 1998-99 -- LW -- 749,5
Vanbiesbrouck John -- 1981-82 -- 2001-02 -- G -- 748
Bellows Brian -- 1982-83 -- 1998-99 -- RW -- 747,5
Chabot Lorne -- 1926-27 -- 1936-37 -- G -- 746,5
Mosdell Kenny -- 1941-42 -- 1958-59 -- C -- 744,5
Leach Reggie -- 1970-71 -- 1982-83 -- RW -- 739
Wilson Doug -- 1977-78 -- 1992-93 -- D -- 739
Roach John -- 1921-22 -- 1934-35 -- G -- 736
Peeters Pete -- 1978-79 -- 1990-91 -- G -- 716

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07-31-2006, 02:26 AM
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Worst players in the Hall of Fame?



Player Name -- YEAR1 -- YEAR2 -- NHL Seasons -- POS -- HHOF Monitor PTS
================================================== =================
Smith Tommy -- 1919-20 -- 1919-20 -- 1 -- C -- 1,5 (Played 13 professional seasons from 1905 to 1920)
Ross Art -- 1917-18 -- 1917-18 -- 1 -- D -- 2,3 (Played 13 professional seasons from 1904 to 1918)
Patrick Lester -- 1926-27 -- 1927-28 -- 2 -- D -- 12,4 (Played 18 professional seasons from 1903 to 1926)
Lehman Hugh -- 1926-27 -- 1927-28 -- 2 -- G -- 17 (Played 20 professional seasons from 1908 to 1928)
Laviolette Jack -- 1917-18 -- 1917-18 -- 1 -- D -- 18 (Played 12 professional seasons from 1903 to 1918)
Walker Jack -- 1926-27 -- 1927-28 -- 2 -- C -- 26,5 (Played 18 professional seasons from 1912 to 1928 )
Foyston Frank -- 1926-27 -- 1927-28 -- 2 -- LW -- 34 (Played 16 professional seasons from 1912 to 1928)
Hyland Harry -- 1917-18 -- 1917-18 -- 1 -- RW -- 36 (Played 10 professional seasons from 1908 to 1918 )
Crawford Rusty -- 1917-18 -- 1918-19 -- 2 -- LW -- 82 (Played 12 professional seasons from 1912 to 1926)
Simpson Joe -- 1925-26 -- 1930-31 -- 6 -- D -- 100,7 (Played 10 professional seasons from 1921 to 1931)
Keats Duke -- 1926-27 -- 1928-29 -- 3 -- C -- 109 (Played 10 professional seasons from 1915 to 1929)


Green Wilf Shorty -- 1923-24 -- 1926-27 -- 4 -- RW -- 109

Mackay Mickey -- 1926-27 -- 1929-30 -- 4 -- C -- 160 (Played 15 professional seasons from 1914 to 1930)
Frederickson Frank -- 1926-27 -- 1930-31 -- 5 -- C -- 191,5 (Played 11 professional seasons from 1920 to 1931)
Holmes Harry Hap -- 1917-18 -- 1927-28 -- 4 -- G -- 233 (Played 16 professional seasons from 1912 to 1928)
Irvin Dick -- 1926-27 -- 1928-29 -- 3 -- C -- 252,5 (Played 9 professional seasons from 1916 to 1929)
Hay George -- 1926-27 -- 1933-34 -- 7 -- C -- 254 (Played 12 professional seasons from 1921 to 1934)
Hall Joe -- 1917-18 -- 1918-19 -- 2 -- D -- 300,5 (Played 16 professional seasons from 1903 to 1919)
Pitre Didier -- 1917-18 -- 1922-23 -- 6 -- RW -- 333,5 (Played 19 professional seasons from 1903 to 1923)
Fetisov Viacheslav -- 1989-90 -- 1997-98 -- 9 -- D -- 335,25 (Played 21 professional seasons from 1976 to 1997)


Laprade Edgar -- 1945-46 -- 1954-55 -- 10 -- C -- 379,5

Gardiner Herb -- 1926-27 -- 1928-29 -- 3 -- D -- 407,5 (Played 8 professional seasons from 1921 to 1929)
Adams Jack J. -- 1917-18 -- 1926-27 -- 7 -- C -- 463 (Played 10 professional seasons from 1917 to 1927)
Dutton Red -- 1926-27 -- 1935-36 -- 10 -- D -- 470,4 (Played 15 professional seasons from 1921 to 1936)
Oliver Harry -- 1926-27 -- 1936-37 -- 11 -- RW -- 486 (Played 16 Professional seasons from 1921 to 1937)


Boivin Leo -- 1951-52 -- 1969-70 -- 19 -- D -- 496,9
Horner Red -- 1928-29 -- 1939-40 -- 12 -- D -- 523,9
Lewis Herbie -- 1928-29 -- 1938-39 -- 11 -- LW -- 542
Federko Bernie -- 1976-77 -- 1989-90 -- 14 -- C -- 621
Smith Clint -- 1936-37 -- 1946-47 -- 11 -- C -- 626
Cheevers Gerry -- 1961-62 -- 1979-80 -- 13 -- G -- 630,5
Colville Neil -- 1935-36 -- 1948-49 -- 12 -- C -- 660,6
Flaman Fernie -- 1944-45 -- 1960-61 -- 17 -- D -- 682,7
Howell Harry -- 1952-53 -- 1972-73 -- 21 -- D -- 694,6
Watson Harry -- 1941-42 -- 1956-57 -- 14 -- LW -- 699,5

Darragh Jack -- 1917-18 -- 1923-24 -- 6 -- RW -- 708 (Played 13 professional seasons from 1910 to 1924)

Day Hap -- 1924-25 -- 1937-38 -- 14 -- D -- 729,35

Gerard Eddie -- 1917-18 -- 1922-23 -- 6 -- LW -- 734,05 (Played 11 professional seasons from 1907 to 1923)

Mosienko Bill -- 1941-42 -- 1954-55 -- 14 -- RW -- 744
Rayner Chuck -- 1940-41 -- 1952-53 -- 10 -- G -- 748,5
Gartner Mike -- 1979-80 -- 1997-98 -- 19 -- RW -- 759,5
Coulter Art -- 1931-32 -- 1941-42 -- 11 -- D -- 762,8
Neely Cam -- 1983-84 -- 1995-96 -- 13 -- RW -- 771,5
Cook Bun -- 1926-27 -- 1936-37 -- 11 -- LW -- 771,5
Lafontaine Pat -- 1983-84 -- 1997-98 -- 15 -- C -- 803,5
Primeau Joe -- 1927-28 -- 1935-36 -- 9 -- C -- 808
Worters Roy -- 1925-26 -- 1936-37 -- 12 -- G -- 808
Sittler Darryl -- 1970-71 -- 1984-85 -- 15 -- C -- 808,5
Gillies Clark -- 1974-75 -- 1987-88 -- 14 -- LW -- 810
Patrick Lynn -- 1934-35 -- 1945-46 -- 10 -- LW -- 816
Pratt Babe -- 1935-36 -- 1946-47 -- 12 -- D -- 816
Reardon Ken -- 1940-41 -- 1949-50 -- 7 -- D -- 839,05
Pulford Bob -- 1956-57 -- 1971-72 -- 16 -- LW -- 849
Dumart Woody -- 1935-36 -- 1953-54 -- 16 -- LW -- 863,3
Duff Dick -- 1954-55 -- 1971-72 -- 18 -- LW -- 871
Gilbert Rod -- 1960-61 -- 1977-78 -- 18 -- RW -- 872,5
Burch Billy -- 1922-23 -- 1932-33 -- 11 -- C -- 878
Mcdonald Lanny -- 1973-74 -- 1988-89 -- 16 -- RW -- 881,75
Bailey Ace I. -- 1926-27 -- 1933-34 -- 8 -- RW -- 883,5

O'Connor Buddy -- 1941-42 -- 1950-51 -- 10 -- C -- 900
Stastny Peter -- 1980-81 -- 1994-95 -- 15 -- C -- 900
Johnson Ching -- 1926-27 -- 1937-38 -- 12 -- D -- 905,55
Savard Serge -- 1966-67 -- 1982-83 -- 17 -- D -- 915,8
Savard Denis -- 1980-81 -- 1996-97 -- 17 -- C -- 924
Barber Bill -- 1972-73 -- 1983-84 -- 12 -- LW -- 928
Salming Borje -- 1973-74 -- 1989-90 -- 17 -- D -- 957,4
Weiland Cooney -- 1928-29 -- 1938-39 -- 11 -- C -- 962
Armstrong George -- 1949-50 -- 1970-71 -- 21 -- RW -- 973
Shutt Steve -- 1972-73 -- 1984-85 -- 13 -- LW -- 984
Murphy Larry -- 1980-81 -- 2000-01 -- 21 -- D -- 985,25
Bauer Bobby -- 1935-36 -- 1951-52 -- 10 -- RW -- 1001,5


Last edited by pnep: 06-21-2010 at 02:49 AM.
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07-31-2006, 10:46 PM
  #9
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very interesting stuff

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07-31-2006, 10:52 PM
  #10
Bluesfan1981
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pnep View Post
Worst players in the Hall of Fame?



Player Name -- YEAR1 -- YEAR2 -- NHL Seasons -- POS -- HHOF Monitor PTS
================================================== =================
Smith Tommy -- 1919-20 -- 1919-20 -- 1 -- C -- 1,5 (Played 13 professional seasons from 1905 to 1920)
Ross Art -- 1917-18 -- 1917-18 -- 1 -- D -- 2,3 (Played 13 professional seasons from 1904 to 1918)
Patrick Lester -- 1926-27 -- 1927-28 -- 2 -- D -- 12,4 (Played 18 professional seasons from 1903 to 1926)
Lehman Hugh -- 1926-27 -- 1927-28 -- 2 -- G -- 17 (Played 20 professional seasons from 1908 to 1928)
Laviolette Jack -- 1917-18 -- 1917-18 -- 1 -- D -- 18 (Played 12 professional seasons from 1903 to 1918)
Walker Jack -- 1926-27 -- 1927-28 -- 2 -- C -- 26,5 (Played 18 professional seasons from 1912 to 1928 )
Foyston Frank -- 1926-27 -- 1927-28 -- 2 -- LW -- 34 (Played 16 professional seasons from 1912 to 1928)
Hyland Harry -- 1917-18 -- 1917-18 -- 1 -- RW -- 36 (Played 10 professional seasons from 1908 to 1918 )
Crawford Rusty -- 1917-18 -- 1918-19 -- 2 -- LW -- 82 (Played 12 professional seasons from 1912 to 1926)
Simpson Joe -- 1925-26 -- 1930-31 -- 6 -- D -- 100,7 (Played 10 professional seasons from 1921 to 1931)
Keats Duke -- 1926-27 -- 1928-29 -- 3 -- C -- 109 (Played 10 professional seasons from 1915 to 1929)


Green Wilf Shorty -- 1923-24 -- 1926-27 -- 4 -- RW -- 109

Mackay Mickey -- 1926-27 -- 1929-30 -- 4 -- C -- 160 (Played 15 professional seasons from 1914 to 1930)
Frederickson Frank -- 1926-27 -- 1930-31 -- 5 -- C -- 191,5 (Played 11 professional seasons from 1920 to 1931)
Holmes Harry Hap -- 1917-18 -- 1927-28 -- 4 -- G -- 233 (Played 16 professional seasons from 1912 to 1928)
Irvin Dick -- 1926-27 -- 1928-29 -- 3 -- C -- 252,5 (Played 9 professional seasons from 1916 to 1929)
Hay George -- 1926-27 -- 1933-34 -- 7 -- C -- 254 (Played 12 professional seasons from 1921 to 1934)
Hall Joe -- 1917-18 -- 1918-19 -- 2 -- D -- 300,5 (Played 16 professional seasons from 1903 to 1919)
Pitre Didier -- 1917-18 -- 1922-23 -- 6 -- RW -- 333,5 (Played 19 professional seasons from 1903 to 1923)
Fetisov Viacheslav -- 1989-90 -- 1997-98 -- 9 -- D -- 335,25 (Played 21 professional seasons from 1976 to 1997)
That's a bit unfair to include some of those guys in a "Worst players in the Hall of Fame" list because that's based solely on their NHL accomplishments, and some of those players didn't play long enough in the NHL, or didn't begin playing in the NHL until they were too old, yet most of those guys were great players in other pro leagues and deserving of the Hall of Fame.

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07-31-2006, 11:17 PM
  #11
pnep
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluesfan1981 View Post
those guys were great players in other pro leagues
Green , Laprade , Boivin , Horner and Lewis dont play in other pro leagues....

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08-01-2006, 02:07 AM
  #12
Bluesfan1981
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pnep View Post
Green , Laprade , Boivin , Horner and Lewis dont play in other pro leagues....
I know, I didn't include them, except for Green, who must have been a great player in an amateur league, because if he wasn't, then he must be the least deserving NHLer in the Hall of Fame. I don't know why Green is in, and I agree with Laprade, Boivin, Horner, and Herbie Lewis, I don't understand why they got in.


Last edited by Bluesfan1981: 08-01-2006 at 02:19 AM.
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08-06-2006, 03:57 PM
  #13
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Pierre Pilote doesn't have a Conn Smythe and King Clancy has 2 first and 2nd all stars not 5 and 5

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08-06-2006, 05:00 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pnep View Post
Projected Awards Winners used for:

1 and 2 ALL STAR TEAMS (Seasons 1917-18/1929-30)
CALDER and CALDER Runner Up (Seasons 1921-22/1931-32)
CONN SMYTHE (Seasons 1917-18/1963-64)
HART and HART Runner Up (Seasons 1917-18/1922-23)
BYNG (Seasons 1917-18/1923-24)
NORRIS and NORRIS Runner Up (Seasons 1917-18/1952-53)
VEZINA and VEZINA Runner Up (Seasons 1917-18/1925-26)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil Speaker View Post
Pierre Pilote doesn't have a Conn Smythe and King Clancy has 2 first and 2nd all stars not 5 and 5

If you read everything, things might make more sense.

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08-06-2006, 07:55 PM
  #15
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If you read everything, things might make more sense.
My bad

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08-06-2006, 08:39 PM
  #16
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This is very interesting & well thought out. The only drawback as someone else pointed out is the exclusion of other major leagues. If the WHA was included, Hull would easily pass Richard & maybe Lemieux. Howe would gain ground on Gretzy. Curious as to why some players don't show up. For instance--Litzenberger (a fav of mine), had a comparable career to Don Mckenny & better than Laprade. what are Litz's points based on this formula.

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08-07-2006, 12:15 AM
  #17
pnep
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Quote:
Originally Posted by murray View Post
This is very interesting & well thought out. The only drawback as someone else pointed out is the exclusion of other major leagues. If the WHA was included, Hull would easily pass Richard & maybe Lemieux. Howe would gain ground on Gretzy. Curious as to why some players don't show up. For instance--Litzenberger (a fav of mine), had a comparable career to Don Mckenny & better than Laprade. what are Litz's points based on this formula.
#-Car.-Seas.-POS-#1-#2-#3-#4-#5-#6-#7-#8-#9-#10-#11-#12-#13-#14-#15-#16-#17-#18-#19-#20 -HHOF?-"HHOF Mon. PTS"- Player
==================================================
0272 - 1952-1964 - 12 - R - 0724 - 0473 - 080 - 035 - 03 - 0 - 0 - 00 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 00 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 04 - 0 - 0 - 0664,5 - Litzenberger Ed

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08-07-2006, 04:46 AM
  #18
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I know, I didn't include them, except for Green, who must have been a great player in an amateur league, because if he wasn't, then he must be the least deserving NHLer in the Hall of Fame.
Indeed.

Green isn't a name I'd ever paid much attention before, but he certainly does appear to be - by far - the weakest selection ever into the HHOF.

Played 4 seasons in the NHL with the Hamilton/NY Americans franchise between the ages of 27-31 (what should be his prime years). One season was decent, and the other three were completely forgettable with no more than 10 points in any of them. Even in his best year, he wasn't top-10 in NHL scoring.

In each of his NHL seasons, he was outscored by teammates Billy Burch (a legitimate HHOFer) and his brother Red Green (!), who is not in the HHOF. It's almost like they elected the wrong brother. Amazingly, despite the fact that Burch won the Hart in 1925 and Lady Byng in 1927 and blew away Green statistically, it took him an extra 12 years to get to the HHOF.

Green played several seasons of amateur hockey in the NOHA before that, but again it seems that his brother out-produced him. And succeeding in an amateur league in the 1920s shouldn't carry much weight if you can't transfer it to pro. NHL, PCHA, or whatever.

Sounds like he spearheaded the first NHL player strike in 1925, and maybe that's why he's in. Would be a very weak reason for induction.

Maybe I'm missing something because I'm not very familiar with the era. But it definitely seems like a very oddball choice. He definitely doesn't appear to be a 'great' of the 1920s by any stretch of the imagination.

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Old
08-07-2006, 07:45 AM
  #19
pnep
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Peak Performance (Total HHOF Monitor PTS, 3 consecutive seasons)

Player -- POS -- TEAM -- Last Seas. -- Total HHOF PTS (3 seas.)
================================================== ========
Gretzky Wayne -- C -- EDM -- 1984-85 -- 2057

Orr Bobby -- D -- BOS -- 1971-72 -- 1937,8

Lafleur Guy -- RW -- MTL -- 1977-78 -- 1727,5

Howe Gordie -- RW -- DET -- 1953-54 -- 1580
Esposito Phil -- C -- BOS -- 1973-74 -- 1553,5
Hasek Dominik -- G -- BUF -- 1998-99 -- 1511

Hull Bobby -- LW -- CHI -- 1965-66 -- 1464,5
Mikita Stan -- C -- CHI -- 1967-68 -- 1400

Jagr Jaromir -- RW -- PIT -- 1999-00 -- 1388,5
Beliveau Jean -- C -- MTL -- 1956-57 -- 1307,5

Lalonde Newsy -- C -- MTL -- 1920-21 -- 1235
Lemieux Mario -- C -- PIT -- 1988-89 -- 1225

Sawchuk Terry -- G -- DET -- 1953-54 -- 1194
Plante Jacques -- G -- MTL -- 1959-60 -- 1168,5
Dryden Ken -- G -- MTL -- 1977-78 -- 1167
Conacher Charlie -- RW -- TOR -- 1935-36 -- 1165,5
Richard Maurice -- RW -- MTL -- 1946-47 -- 1135,5
Dye Babe -- RW -- TOR -- 1922-23 -- 1126,5
Parent Bernie -- G -- PHI -- 1975-76 -- 1119,5

Durnan Bill -- G -- MTL -- 1945-46 -- 1098,5
Bossy Mike -- RW -- NYI -- 1982-83 -- 1084,5
Hull Brett -- RW -- STL -- 1991-92 -- 1079,5
Malone Joe -- C -- HAM -- 1919-20 -- 1059
Benedict Clint -- G -- OTT1 -- 1920-21 -- 1058
Cook Bill -- RW -- NYR -- 1932-33 -- 1056,5
Trottier Bryan -- C -- NYI -- 1979-80 -- 1039,5
Shore Eddie -- D -- BOS -- 1932-33 -- 1016,65
Denneny Cy -- LW -- OTT1 -- 1924-25 -- 1015
Moore Dickie -- LW -- MTL -- 1958-59 -- 1012

Clarke Bobby -- C -- PHI -- 1975-76 -- 997
Kurri Jari -- RW -- EDM -- 1986-87 -- 989,5
Coffey Paul -- D -- EDM -- 1985-86 -- 989,05
Kelly Red -- D -- DET -- 1953-54 -- 979,1
Clapper Dit -- D -- BOS -- 1940-41 -- 971,2
Brimsek Frank -- G -- BOS -- 1940-41 -- 965,5
Dionne Marcel -- C -- LA -- 1980-81 -- 963
Thompson Tiny -- G -- BOS -- 1930-31 -- 953,5
Boucher George -- D -- OTT1 -- 1923-24 -- 951,3
Harvey Doug -- D -- MTL -- 1957-58 -- 945,7
Bourque Ray -- D -- BOS -- 1991-92 -- 940,6
Lidstrom Nicklas -- D -- DET -- 2002-03 -- 934,3
Hextall Bryan Sr. -- RW -- NYR -- 1941-42 -- 928,5
Sakic Joe -- C -- COL -- 2001-02 -- 927
Morenz Howie -- C -- MTL -- 1931-32 -- 920,5
Boucher Frank -- C -- NYR -- 1929-30 -- 919
Cleghorn Sprague -- D -- BOS -- 1925-26 -- 913,05
Esposito Tony -- G -- CHI -- 1971-72 -- 909

Iginla Jarome -- RW -- CGY -- 2003-04 -- 893,5
Lach Elmer -- C -- MTL -- 1945-46 -- 884,5
Stewart Nels -- C -- MTM -- 1927-28 -- 884,5

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08-07-2006, 10:11 PM
  #20
Bluesfan1981
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MS View Post
Indeed.

Green isn't a name I'd ever paid much attention before, but he certainly does appear to be - by far - the weakest selection ever into the HHOF.

Played 4 seasons in the NHL with the Hamilton/NY Americans franchise between the ages of 27-31 (what should be his prime years). One season was decent, and the other three were completely forgettable with no more than 10 points in any of them. Even in his best year, he wasn't top-10 in NHL scoring.

In each of his NHL seasons, he was outscored by teammates Billy Burch (a legitimate HHOFer) and his brother Red Green (!), who is not in the HHOF. It's almost like they elected the wrong brother. Amazingly, despite the fact that Burch won the Hart in 1925 and Lady Byng in 1927 and blew away Green statistically, it took him an extra 12 years to get to the HHOF.

Green played several seasons of amateur hockey in the NOHA before that, but again it seems that his brother out-produced him. And succeeding in an amateur league in the 1920s shouldn't carry much weight if you can't transfer it to pro. NHL, PCHA, or whatever.

Sounds like he spearheaded the first NHL player strike in 1925, and maybe that's why he's in. Would be a very weak reason for induction.

Maybe I'm missing something because I'm not very familiar with the era. But it definitely seems like a very oddball choice. He definitely doesn't appear to be a 'great' of the 1920s by any stretch of the imagination.
Yeah him and Burch were responsible for the first strike. I don't know if that's why he got in, because I've searched for information about him but there's very little available.

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08-07-2006, 11:06 PM
  #21
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A few things about Shorty Green, I don't know what got him into the HoF either, but..

He was the captain of Hamilton at the time of the strike.

He never played Jr. hockey, he played Sr. and pro only.

His career was cut short by injury.

In the reworking of the historical point totals, Green went from 18-1-19 to 18-9-27 for the 24-25 season which should put him in the top 10 for that season, but he is missing from that list most times. He is listed in Total NHL, but not Total Hockey or the NHL Guide & Record Book.

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08-08-2006, 01:28 PM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MS View Post
In each of his NHL seasons, he was outscored by teammates Billy Burch (a legitimate HHOFer) and his brother Red Green (!), who is not in the HHOF. It's almost like they elected the wrong brother. Amazingly, despite the fact that Burch won the Hart in 1925 and Lady Byng in 1927 and blew away Green statistically, it took him an extra 12 years to get to the HHOF.
He died a year before the vote took place. That probably helped.

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Old
08-09-2006, 09:32 AM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pnep View Post
Peak Performance (Total HHOF Monitor PTS, 3 consecutive seasons)

Player -- POS -- TEAM -- Last Seas. -- Total HHOF PTS (3 seas.)
================================================== ========
Gretzky Wayne -- C -- EDM -- 1984-85 -- 2057

Orr Bobby -- D -- BOS -- 1971-72 -- 1937,8

Lafleur Guy -- RW -- MTL -- 1977-78 -- 1727,5

Howe Gordie -- RW -- DET -- 1953-54 -- 1580
Esposito Phil -- C -- BOS -- 1973-74 -- 1553,5
Hasek Dominik -- G -- BUF -- 1998-99 -- 1511

Hull Bobby -- LW -- CHI -- 1965-66 -- 1464,5
Mikita Stan -- C -- CHI -- 1967-68 -- 1400

Jagr Jaromir -- RW -- PIT -- 1999-00 -- 1388,5
Beliveau Jean -- C -- MTL -- 1956-57 -- 1307,5

Lalonde Newsy -- C -- MTL -- 1920-21 -- 1235
Lemieux Mario -- C -- PIT -- 1988-89 -- 1225

Sawchuk Terry -- G -- DET -- 1953-54 -- 1194
Plante Jacques -- G -- MTL -- 1959-60 -- 1168,5
Dryden Ken -- G -- MTL -- 1977-78 -- 1167
Conacher Charlie -- RW -- TOR -- 1935-36 -- 1165,5
Richard Maurice -- RW -- MTL -- 1946-47 -- 1135,5
Dye Babe -- RW -- TOR -- 1922-23 -- 1126,5
Parent Bernie -- G -- PHI -- 1975-76 -- 1119,5

Durnan Bill -- G -- MTL -- 1945-46 -- 1098,5
Bossy Mike -- RW -- NYI -- 1982-83 -- 1084,5
Hull Brett -- RW -- STL -- 1991-92 -- 1079,5
Malone Joe -- C -- HAM -- 1919-20 -- 1059
Benedict Clint -- G -- OTT1 -- 1920-21 -- 1058
Cook Bill -- RW -- NYR -- 1932-33 -- 1056,5
Trottier Bryan -- C -- NYI -- 1979-80 -- 1039,5
Shore Eddie -- D -- BOS -- 1932-33 -- 1016,65
Denneny Cy -- LW -- OTT1 -- 1924-25 -- 1015
Moore Dickie -- LW -- MTL -- 1958-59 -- 1012

Clarke Bobby -- C -- PHI -- 1975-76 -- 997
Kurri Jari -- RW -- EDM -- 1986-87 -- 989,5
Coffey Paul -- D -- EDM -- 1985-86 -- 989,05
Kelly Red -- D -- DET -- 1953-54 -- 979,1
Clapper Dit -- D -- BOS -- 1940-41 -- 971,2
Brimsek Frank -- G -- BOS -- 1940-41 -- 965,5
Dionne Marcel -- C -- LA -- 1980-81 -- 963
Thompson Tiny -- G -- BOS -- 1930-31 -- 953,5
Boucher George -- D -- OTT1 -- 1923-24 -- 951,3
Harvey Doug -- D -- MTL -- 1957-58 -- 945,7
Bourque Ray -- D -- BOS -- 1991-92 -- 940,6
Lidstrom Nicklas -- D -- DET -- 2002-03 -- 934,3
Hextall Bryan Sr. -- RW -- NYR -- 1941-42 -- 928,5
Sakic Joe -- C -- COL -- 2001-02 -- 927
Morenz Howie -- C -- MTL -- 1931-32 -- 920,5
Boucher Frank -- C -- NYR -- 1929-30 -- 919
Cleghorn Sprague -- D -- BOS -- 1925-26 -- 913,05
Esposito Tony -- G -- CHI -- 1971-72 -- 909

Iginla Jarome -- RW -- CGY -- 2003-04 -- 893,5
Lach Elmer -- C -- MTL -- 1945-46 -- 884,5
Stewart Nels -- C -- MTM -- 1927-28 -- 884,5
pnep, I appreciate your work. You have obviously spent a lot of time and I applaud you.

That being said, I disagree with Howe's being #4 on this list. IMO, the 4 season span from 50-51 until 53-54 were the most amazing 4 years by anyone other than Gretzky. He dominated the NHL and I think, he should be sitting at #2 or at the very least #3.

Other than that, good work.

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09-17-2006, 11:37 AM
  #24
David
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My oh my...! I can't believe the work you did...do you do this for living? I am in awe of this list.

However, the one thing that I noticed is how it doesn't take into account the comtemporaries when the players played.

What I mean is this. During Yzerman's prime years, he scored more than Joe Sakic. Throughout his career, he won more Stanely Cups and went to the finals more than Joe Sakic.

I love them both, but you gotta admit, because Gretzky and Lemieux in their primes (or close to ) were playing at the same time as Stevie Y, Stevie didn't get the awards even when scoring 150pts...unlike Burnaby Joe who didn't have that disavantage.

I would put Yzerman higher than Sakic and Yzerman much, much higher than Marcel Dionne on a list like this but yours is the other way...

Just something to consider...

Quote:
Originally Posted by pnep;6158186[B
]0028-1988/2006-17-C-1274-1555-162-192-14-1-0-03-0-0-1-00-2-0-0-0-0-1-02-0-F-2291,0-Sakic Joe[/B]0029-1980/2001-21-D-1458-1374-199-175-00-0-0-04-4-0-0-00-1-3-2-0-0-0-04-3-Y-2277,0-Coffey Paul
0030-1991/2006-14-D-1124-0870-174-127-00-0-0-07-0-0-0-00-0-4-3-0-0-1-03-1-F-2276,1-Lidstrom Nicklas
0031-1950/1968-16-R-1029-0949-261-236-00-1-0-01-2-2-0-02-0-0-0-0-0-1-06-4-Y-2251,5-Geoffrion Bernie
0032-1975/1994-18-C-1310-1189-240-163-00-1-2-02-2-0-0-01-1-0-0-0-0-1-06-1-Y-2232,5-Trottier Bryan
0033-1973/1988-15-D-1090-0881-210-153-08-0-1-05-2-0-0-00-0-3-2-0-0-0-04-1-Y-2189,4-Potvin Denis
0034-1926/1937-11-R-0845-0777-113-077-11-0-2-04-2-3-1-02-0-0-0-0-0-0-02-2-Y-2141,5-Cook Bill
0035-1956/1974-18-L-1330-1135-239-182-00-0-0-03-6-0-4-00-0-0-0-0-0-0-06-2-Y-2138,5-Mahovlich Frank
0036-1921/1937-16-D-1219-0733-150-049-02-0-0-05-5-0-0-00-0-2-4-0-0-0-03-3-Y-2134,4-Clancy King
0037-1921/1944-14-C-1026-1040-137-117-00-0-0-04-4-0-0-00-1-0-0-0-0-1-02-3-Y-2126,0-Boucher Frank
0038-1943/1950-07-G-0498-0277-090-054-01-0-1-06-0-0-0-00-0-0-0-6-0-0-02-1-Y-2124,5-Durnan Bill
0039-1985/2006-20-R-1308-1419-201-188-04-1-0-03-0-3-1-00-1-0-0-0-0-0-02-2-F-2089,5-Hull Brett
0040-1955/1969-14-D-1031-0545-162-111-07-0-0-05-3-0-0-00-0-3-3-0-0-1-01-2-Y-2074,7-Pilote Pierre
0041-1969/1984-15-C-1186-1062-170-125-09-3-1-02-2-0-0-00-2-0-0-0-0-0-02-2-Y-2073,0-Clarke Bobby
0042-1938/1950-10-G-0704-0358-136-064-00-0-1-02-6-0-0-00-0-0-0-2-3-0-02-2-Y-2070,0-Brimsek Frank
0043-1927/1947-20-R-1436-0823-179-066-14-0-1-04-3-0-1-00-0-2-1-0-0-0-03-3-Y-2054,8-Clapper Dit
0044-1971/1989-18-C-1389-1498-058-045-01-0-1-02-2-0-2-01-3-0-0-0-0-0-00-0-Y-2053,0-Dionne Marcel
0045-1983/2006-22-C-1561-1681-196-186-19-0-0-01-0-0-2-00-0-0-0-0-0-1-03-1-F-2027,5-Yzerman Steve

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09-17-2006, 07:03 PM
  #25
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i cannot beleive u did this

wow...

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