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NYT: Bargaining for Rights in Exchange for NHL in Olympics (UPD: Daly in Sochi)

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Old
03-10-2013, 07:27 PM
  #251
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Originally Posted by Mr Kanadensisk View Post
No, my proposal was that the IIHF organize its own best on best tournament, outside of the Olympics, like pretty much every other major sport does. By having control over the location, timing, format and most importantly revenues the IIHF could increase, not decrease, their profits.
I think this is also the way I am leaning as far as what I would like to see happen. It will never get the exposure of the Olympics but I see plenty of other potential benefits to it.

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03-10-2013, 08:50 PM
  #252
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Originally Posted by Jussi View Post
The big difference being that NHL is more and easily available to watch after/between games unlike e.g. curling, figure skating, swimming or gymnastics.
Yet it still suffers the same fate the other sports do.

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03-10-2013, 08:51 PM
  #253
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Originally Posted by Jussi View Post
The big difference being that NHL is more and easily available to watch after/between games unlike e.g. curling, figure skating, swimming or gymnastics.
Yep, the format of those sports are not based on daily play and standings but events like XGames, grand prixs, etc. Different to compare.

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03-10-2013, 10:11 PM
  #254
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Originally Posted by Mr Kanadensisk View Post
This is exactly the point, most fans of the Olympics are like this, which is why the claim that the Olympics is huge for growing the sport is so off base.
Most, maybe, but not all. That's the whole point. The Olympics at least reaches those casual viewers who might in turn begin following the sport at the club level as well. A non-Olympic international tournament has 0% chance of accomplishing that. Even if the chance the Olympics does that is 0.1%, it's still better than any alternative. And whatever percentage it may be, is obviously worth it for the NHL to delay the season for 9 days which really makes no difference at all. Doesn't make sense to stop participating in the most watched hockey event in the world in favor of an event that less people watch than a regular season Carolina - Florida game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Kanadensisk View Post
No, my proposal was that the IIHF organize its own best on best tournament, outside of the Olympics, like pretty much every other major sport does. By having control over the location, timing, format and most importantly revenues the IIHF could increase, not decrease, their profits.
The problem with that is the NHL would still have to shut down for 2 weeks or so, which would result in the same complaints by the NHL we see with the Olympics - for less reward if they do shut down, meaning it will never happen.

The IIHF isn't going to hold a tournament in July. It's a winter sport for a reason, nobody is going to watch hockey in July.

The World Championships are already at the best time possible. There's only 4 NHL teams still playing, meaning pretty much everyone is available, but it's also not so deep into summer that nobody cares anymore. Perhaps they could push it back a little bit more, since leagues like the KHL want to expand their season anyway, but once you start getting into June it gets a bit ridiculous. Only the NHL is stupid enough to play a winter sport in June.


Last edited by EbencoyE: 03-10-2013 at 10:20 PM.
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Old
03-10-2013, 10:18 PM
  #255
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How many people on this site do you think know that? How many people in the US do you think would even know when/if they are shown on tv? Point is, those sports are the focus for 2 weeks every four years and forgotten/ignored the rest of the time.
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Originally Posted by Jussi View Post
IAAF World Championship are actually big events globally, and get much bigger ratings than any hockey event outside of the Olympics. This year's Worlds are held in Moscow, it was hard not to forget because the commentators on the Finnish national broadcasting corporation's Olympic broadcast mentioned it so many times (they have the rights to both events).
Track and Field hasn't gotten big ratings in the US since he era of Wide World of Sports - and only gets ratings now with an Olympic connection.

The 2011 Worlds got a 0.8 & 1.2 on NBC.

The 2012 US Olympic Trials pulled in a 2.5 - but only a 1.4 in 18-49 and 0.7 in 18-34.

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03-10-2013, 10:24 PM
  #256
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Originally Posted by kdb209 View Post
Track and Field hasn't gotten big ratings in the US since he era of Wide World of Sports - and only gets ratings now with an Olympic connection.

The 2011 Worlds got a 0.8 & 1.2 on NBC.

The 2012 US Olympic Trials pulled in a 2.5 - but only a 1.4 in 18-49 and 0.7 in 18-34.
I really don't understand why people keep talking about ratings. Unless you have ratings of the same events from an alternate universe where the Olympics don't exist and market those sports to many more casual fans, how can you tell if the Olympics has any effect on the ratings or not? I don't think people understand the scientific process.

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03-12-2013, 11:19 AM
  #257
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http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=417962

Daly leading delegation to Sochi to discussion NHL participation.

Hopes to have resolved by end of the month (I'm guessing that includes BOG vote/say).

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03-12-2013, 05:33 PM
  #258
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Originally Posted by EbencoyE View Post
Most, maybe, but not all. That's the whole point. The Olympics at least reaches those casual viewers who might in turn begin following the sport at the club level as well. A non-Olympic international tournament has 0% chance of accomplishing that. Even if the chance the Olympics does that is 0.1%, it's still better than any alternative. And whatever percentage it may be, is obviously worth it for the NHL to delay the season for 9 days which really makes no difference at all. Doesn't make sense to stop participating in the most watched hockey event in the world in favor of an event that less people watch than a regular season Carolina - Florida game.
I disagree completely, I think a well run non-Olympic IIHF best on best tournament could be more effective in attracting new fans. I would say that Canada is the only country where the hockey market is near saturated, everywhere else there is lots of room for growth and if you want to grow you have to build from the core out. For example no matter how many people in China watched the last gold medal game there is next to no chance that it will lead to any growth of the game there, those are your typical fans of the olympics vs fans of hockey. Maybe one day hockey will be followed in China, but we are a long way off from that yet.

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Originally Posted by EbencoyE View Post
The problem with that is the NHL would still have to shut down for 2 weeks or so, which would result in the same complaints by the NHL we see with the Olympics - for less reward if they do shut down, meaning it will never happen.
I disagree, the rewards could be greater for all parties if the IIHF had their own B on B tournament, including the NHL. The NHL has already shown they were willing to shut down for the very little they benefited from the Olympics, so it is certainly possible they would do it for another tournament if the conditions were right.

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Originally Posted by EbencoyE View Post
The World Championships are already at the best time possible. There's only 4 NHL teams still playing, meaning pretty much everyone is available, but it's also not so deep into summer that nobody cares anymore. Perhaps they could push it back a little bit more, since leagues like the KHL want to expand their season anyway, but once you start getting into June it gets a bit ridiculous. Only the NHL is stupid enough to play a winter sport in June.
Most hockey fans in North America, which by extension means most hockey fans in the world, don't think the WC are held at the best time, so you are certainly in the minority feeling that way. For a whole bunch of reasons the WC are doomed to fail in NA, so I really think the IIHF needs to re-evaluate what they are doing there.

BTW, the NHL may be stupid, but they are also far and away the most succesful hockey league or organization in the world so I'll take your comment with a grain of salt.

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03-13-2013, 11:52 AM
  #259
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http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=418060

Daly & NHL group are leaving Sochi.

Quote:
"We had two productive days of meetings in Sochi," Daly said. "Saw and visited all the hockey venues, the Olympic Village and other key Olympics-related infrastructure. We met with the Sochi Organizing Committee, the IIHF and a number of IOC representatives. There is more work to be done, but it was an important trip for us to make."

IIHF president Rene Fasel felt that while many challenges lie ahead, he was optimistic with the week's visit.

"This was a very good couple days of site visits of the Olympic venues and infrastructure, followed by some good discussions with the NHL representatives," Fasel said. "I remain optimistic about the NHL's participation in Sochi and I hope that we can come to an agreement latest beginning of May, which would be good for the teams as to which players to select for the World Championships.

"It must be said that many challenges remain and that this is more than just an IIHF-NHL issue," Fasel continued. "We have also the IOC, the NHLPA, the Sochi organizers, the National Olympic Committees and the national ice hockey associations. There is lots of coordinating to be done."

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03-13-2013, 12:26 PM
  #260
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http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=659944

A few more details from NHL version of Daly et al leaving Sochi.

Quote:
If the League does decide to go to Sochi, it will have to institute a lengthy pause in the regular-season schedule. The 2014 Winter Olympics run from Feb. 7-23. Daly said in order to accommodate that window the League will need an extended break of 17 or 18 days.

"We are trying to work through and find solutions that make it sensible for us to shut down our season and come to Sochi with, estimates are, about 170-180 NHL Players," Daly told Sovietsky Sport. "So that's the goal."

Daly said that he saw nothing during his tour of the facilities that would preclude participation by NHL players.
...
Daly even said a less than ideal game schedule during the Olympics -- Sochi is eight to 11 hours ahead of North America -- can be overcome. With the time difference, many of the marquee games featuring the United States and Canada would air in the morning or early afternoon.

"We've seen a copy of the [Olympic hockey] schedule and will work with NBC and CBC to maximize time slots," Daly said. It's not an ideal situation for North American TV but we'll do the best we can."

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03-13-2013, 01:29 PM
  #261
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So that seems pretty positive... the rumors that the league was using this a carrot to get realignment seems accurate

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03-13-2013, 04:43 PM
  #262
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americans (and to a certain extant canadians) are protectionist about sports and hate any kind of change.

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03-15-2013, 02:15 AM
  #263
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Video of Bettman on NHL Live Thursday talking about Olympics, etc.

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03-15-2013, 10:32 AM
  #264
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americans (and to a certain extant canadians) are protectionist about sports and hate any kind of change.
Not really... In North America sports are in fierce competition for eyeballs and constantly tinkering. Even the leader NFL is constantly modifying things, the MLB which is prolly the most traditionalist has expanded video replay recently.

In Europe, where soccer has basically zero serious competition, there is no change to the sport even though it could really use some reform. No revenue pressures at all, the FIFA umbrella just puts on their money hats and tells any reformers to suck an egg and there's not much that can be done.

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03-15-2013, 12:49 PM
  #265
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Not really... In North America sports are in fierce competition for eyeballs and constantly tinkering. Even the leader NFL is constantly modifying things, the MLB which is prolly the most traditionalist has expanded video replay recently.

In Europe, where soccer has basically zero serious competition, there is no change to the sport even though it could really use some reform. No revenue pressures at all, the FIFA umbrella just puts on their money hats and tells any reformers to suck an egg and there's not much that can be done.
im not talking about rules.

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03-15-2013, 01:10 PM
  #266
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im not talking about rules.
So what are you talking about, then? Off the top of my head I can't think of a single aspect of sports that hasn't changed dramatically within a lifetime.

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03-15-2013, 02:05 PM
  #267
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So what are you talking about, then? Off the top of my head I can't think of a single aspect of sports that hasn't changed dramatically within a lifetime.
He is probably talking about the fact that NA leagues don't like 'inter-league' competition. As in, the Champions Hockey League will never be taken seriously by the NHL because the NHL simply doesn't want to take it seriously. The NHL seems to view that sort of competition as somehow demeaning to their own product.

North American leagues love their basic 1 league, 1 regular season, 1 playoff format. The prospect of Cups, Invitationals, international breaks, loans, promotion/relegation,etc..., things that are absolutely standard fare on the rest of the planet, but they seem to frighten and confuse most North Americans.

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03-15-2013, 02:10 PM
  #268
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nvm, misread

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03-15-2013, 02:18 PM
  #269
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He is probably talking about the fact that NA leagues don't like 'inter-league' competition. As in, the Champions Hockey League will never be taken seriously by the NHL because the NHL simply doesn't want to take it seriously. The NHL seems to view that sort of competition as somehow demeaning to their own product.

North American leagues love their basic 1 league, 1 regular season, 1 playoff format. The prospect of Cups, Invitationals, international breaks, loans, promotion/relegation,etc..., things that are absolutely standard fare on the rest of the planet, but they seem to frighten and confuse most North Americans.
Well, then that's a far fry from "hating any kind of change".

Basically what you're saying is that in the 4 sports in which North America has been historically dominant and in which the domestic leagues are by far and away the world's most elite level of competition, nobody is really interested in turning everything upside-down for the sake of looking more like European competition... for its own sake. Well, that's no different than someone from Europe rolling their eyes at the suggestion that all the world's best soccer players should go play in the EPL and hold a single club championship tournament every year. It's two completely different modes of operation, of course there is resistance to change between them.

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03-15-2013, 02:28 PM
  #270
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Well, then that's a far fry from "hating any kind of change".

Basically what you're saying is that in the 4 sports in which North America has been historically dominant and in which the domestic leagues are by far and away the world's most elite level of competition, nobody is really interested in turning everything upside-down for the sake of looking more like European competition... for its own sake. Well, that's no different than someone from Europe rolling their eyes at the suggestion that all the world's best soccer players should go play in the EPL and hold a single club championship tournament every year. It's two completely different modes of operation, of course there is resistance to change between them.
Well, even with more mundane things, like re-alignment, look no further than all the hue and cry over that. I think that is some good evidence that North Americans (or maybe just NHL fans) are, at least, 'less than receptive' to change.

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03-15-2013, 02:40 PM
  #271
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Well, even with more mundane things, like re-alignment, look no further than all the hue and cry over that. I think that is some good evidence that North Americans (or maybe just NHL fans) are, at least, 'less than receptive' to change.
It seems to me the hue and cry was more about how the alignment was changed and the effects that it had on everyone's particular favorite team.

There was no outrage that I saw over the very idea of re-alignment... if anything, there were several years' worth of very busy threads anticipating it.

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03-15-2013, 02:42 PM
  #272
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It seems to me the hue and cry was more about how the alignment was changed and the effects that it had on everyone's particular favorite team.

There was no outrage that I saw over the very idea of re-alignment... if anything, there were several years' worth of very busy threads anticipating it.
Well maybe we have perceived it differently because I see alot of people whining that the NHL went too far, and that only a subtle change (i.e. the 'Winnipeg to Central, Nashville to SE' argument) was needed. People knew realignment was needed, but they don't seem to like that this re-alignment involves a significant departure from the current six division format.

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03-15-2013, 03:09 PM
  #273
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Well maybe we have perceived it differently because I see alot of people whining that the NHL went too far, and that only a subtle change (i.e. the 'Winnipeg to Central, Nashville to SE' argument) was needed. People knew realignment was needed, but they don't seem to like that this re-alignment involves a significant departure from the current six division format.
I suppose we are perceiving it differently. Aside from the nitpicking arguments in the thread here on BoH, most of the comments I'm seeing across the board are frustration with a hometown team's reduced chances of making the playoffs. Whether it's because the division is too difficult, or too large, or because it's a team in one of the formerly-weak divisions who has been in the running for an easy division banner. After that, there's some frustration about the half-hearted divisional structure that only puts half the teams into an actual divisional playoff. And finally the groaning about the Florida teams being in the northernmost division.

Honestly, a lot of it is just "rabble rabble rabble" that will go away as soon as the puck is dropped on 2013-14 (and probably resurface once people figure out how convoluted the playoff system is going to be).

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03-15-2013, 03:35 PM
  #274
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Well, then that's a far fry from "hating any kind of change".

Basically what you're saying is that in the 4 sports in which North America has been historically dominant and in which the domestic leagues are by far and away the world's most elite level of competition, nobody is really interested in turning everything upside-down for the sake of looking more like European competition... for its own sake. Well, that's no different than someone from Europe rolling their eyes at the suggestion that all the world's best soccer players should go play in the EPL and hold a single club championship tournament every year. It's two completely different modes of operation, of course there is resistance to change between them.
The MLB champ is not far and away better then the NPB champ, plus Selig wishes that was the true World Series, he has said it numerous times in public.

North American sports do suffer from this alot, the whole "better team" without deciding it on the field. This attitude has held back CFB for years.

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03-15-2013, 11:27 PM
  #275
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what im talking about is americans , for some reason, dont care about international sporting competitions in our "own" sports. In fact fo ra long time people didnt even realize team sports existed outside the usa .

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