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Derek Roy's Next Contract

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Old
03-14-2013, 11:25 PM
  #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stars99Lobo37 View Post
Kari has just as questionable health history, yet they paid him almost exactly what he wanted. Obviously he's been a huge reason why this team has even had a chance at the playoffs the past couple of years, but questionable health history...psh.
Kari also had a couple years in Dallas to change their mind about his health history. Roy has had 26 games and he's missed 5 of those. Look I hope McKenzie is wrong about the numbers and that Dallas wants to stay near 5 and Roy's camp wants 6. That's a reasonable disagreement, especially when you consider his injury history and the 4-6 year term on the contract. If they really are lowballing him at 4 million, man that's pathetic and I don't even really like Roy. What the hell is Niewendyk and company doing if that's the case? Gagliardi has to know what's going on here too, which just confuses me more.

Sign him or don't. I'm almost agnostic on the that point but whatever you do, he can't be here beyond the deadline without an extension. Is Roy really going to be the demarcation line as far as whether they're sellers at the deadline? They can't possibly keep Morrow and Jagr while jettisoning Roy, can they?

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03-14-2013, 11:31 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Hull Fan View Post
Kari also had a couple years in Dallas to change their mind about his health history.
Except he's been injured in every full season we've had him (can't remember if he got hurt in 10/11).

The low ball 4 million is just what I can't understand.

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Old
03-14-2013, 11:44 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by LatvianTwist View Post
If he's turning down 6M...

Someone on the trade board proposed Roy + Robidas + Glennie for Grabovski + Gunnarsson. Toronto fans actually seemed to like it. I'd be down for that if it were possible.
I would really hope that isnt the best they could do. Grabovski and Gunnarsson arent great assets.

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03-14-2013, 11:57 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by LatvianTwist View Post
If he's turning down 6M...

Someone on the trade board proposed Roy + Robidas + Glennie for Grabovski + Gunnarsson. Toronto fans actually seemed to like it. I'd be down for that if it were possible.

Yeah no I don't care for that return either. Someone like say Ottawa, Vancouver, New Jersey or Winnipeg have to have better offers than that. I'd really rather have the picks/prospects and take some of that shopping to either move up at the draft or buy a player from a cap team this summer. Grabovski and Gunnerson? Ugh no thank you.

Hell what would Phoenix be willing to offer for Roy? They could use him. Roy for Rundblad and a 3rd.

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03-15-2013, 12:26 AM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stars99Lobo37 View Post
Kari has just as questionable health history, yet they paid him almost exactly what he wanted. Obviously he's been a huge reason why this team has even had a chance at the playoffs the past couple of years, but questionable health history...psh.
A) Starting goaltender is a more important position than second line center.

B) Kari had been here long enough for them to feel confident in his health and commitment to the franchise.

C) In Roy's last full season he only scored 44 points. He would have missed roughly half of this season recovering from surgery had we not had the lockout. I really think this is a bigger deal than some people are willing to admit but it seems like nobody really thinks about it because he never actually missed those games. He's been injured, banged up, etc. how many times this year?

D) I personally find comparing health history of two separate humans to be pretty ridiculous. It should be perfectly alright for the Stars to look at Lehtonen's troubling health history and conclude that he's worth the risk completely separate from anything to do with Roy. One should have no bearing on the other. Medically speaking, having an injury history in a general sense is in no way comparable. Lumping two guys' histories together isn't fair.

E) Let's say for a minute that Lehtonen's extension were a mistake, or in the very least a huge gamble. That gamble should have nothing to do with their desire to gamble on Roy.

F) You only commit 5-6 years on a guy who you feel you can't live without.

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03-15-2013, 12:34 AM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hull Fan View Post
If they really are lowballing him at 4 million, man that's pathetic and I don't even really like Roy. What the hell is Niewendyk and company doing if that's the case?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stars99Lobo37 View Post
The low ball 4 million is just what I can't understand.
I feel like this is obligatory tire-kicking. Plus, while I think McKenzie is the best at what he does, it sounded like he wasn't actually sure that's what the Stars were offering. "Around what he's making now" is a little ambiguous and it's possible if he actually was talking to someone on the inside that he misunderstood what they meant regarding cap hit vs actual salary.

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Originally Posted by Hull Fan View Post
They can't possibly keep Morrow and Jagr while jettisoning Roy, can they?
I don't really feel like those things are in any way connected because Morrow really doesn't effect much in the win/loss category these days.

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03-15-2013, 12:43 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by glovesave_35 View Post
I feel like this is obligatory tire-kicking. Plus, while I think McKenzie is the best at what he does, it sounded like he wasn't actually sure that's what the Stars were offering. "Around what he's making now" is a little ambiguous and it's possible if he actually was talking to someone on the inside that he misunderstood what they meant regarding cap hit vs actual salary.
I'm thinking that Bobby Mac got confused about cap hit vs. salary in this case. Like I said 5 vs 6 is a legit and reasonable discussion. I can totally understand Roy's stance as this is his last big contract and I can understand why Dallas would be reluctant to part with big money and big term. The question becomes whether Roy's side would compromise in the middle on money and just how long a term is Dallas willing to accept? And just like you said his health is a huge concern so there may not be a deal he'd agree to here in Dallas.

Quote:
I don't really feel like those things are in any way connected because Morrow really doesn't effect much in the win/loss category these days.
I think they are connected because picture this team without Roy. Let's say you get some kind of ideal trade for Turris/Bailey/Hodgson type player back or even a defenseman like Rundblad. Dallas isn't that great with Roy and would probably be worse in the final ten games with any of that type of return.

If you move Roy, in effect you've given up on the season as you've traded your two best assets for lesser players (Ryder, Roy) Cole + whomever. Why would you keep Jagr or Morrow if that's the case? Morrow may be gone in the next week or so anyway but I imagine if they pull the trigger on Roy, Jagr is going to ask to leave.

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03-15-2013, 12:59 AM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MetalGodAOD View Post
McKenzie says Dallas wants in the 4mil range, Roy's looking in the 5-6 mil range.

If Dallas is lowballing him like that they're delusional. They're going to have to offer market value.
I would not offer Roy 6 million a year unless it was only on a 3 year deal. I honestly wouldn't go past three years for Roy, anything more then that is asking for a bad contract. There's way too much risk involved in the type of contract it will take to keep him.

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03-15-2013, 01:02 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Hull Fan View Post
I think they are connected because picture this team without Roy. Let's say you get some kind of ideal trade for Turris/Bailey/Hodgson type player back or even a defenseman like Rundblad. Dallas isn't that great with Roy and would probably be worse in the final ten games with any of that type of return.

If you move Roy, in effect you've given up on the season as you've traded your two best assets for lesser players (Ryder, Roy) Cole + whomever. Why would you keep Jagr or Morrow if that's the case? Morrow may be gone in the next week or so anyway but I imagine if they pull the trigger on Roy, Jagr is going to ask to leave.
My point is that I think Morrow, Jagr, and Roy are all unique situations. Jagr is the most unique of the bunch due to his respect around the league, you don't just go and trade him, you try to make him happy.

Morrow is done here I think. Management seems to know he's not helping a ton but I can see them wanting to get something back for him before they let him walk this summer.

Nieuwendyk has already said he doesn't want to lose Roy over the summer for nothing, and given how he followed through with trading Ryder for the same reason I think we have to take him at face value.

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03-15-2013, 03:15 AM
  #85
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The Stars might just be releasing this $4M figure to the public to make subsequent offers more enticing.

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03-15-2013, 03:57 AM
  #86
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This can only end badly, mostly because I have absolutely no faith in Joe's trading ability, or his ability to not give Roy an NTC for his inevitable $6.5M for 5 years.

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03-15-2013, 07:50 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by ________ View Post
I would not offer Roy 6 million a year unless it was only on a 3 year deal. I honestly wouldn't go past three years for Roy, anything more then that is asking for a bad contract. There's way too much risk involved in the type of contract it will take to keep him.
Honestly, what harm is a bad contract the next few years? I think it gets way overblown. This team has a ton of cap space, and needs talent. I think it's riskier not overpaying and letting a legit top 6 forward walk.

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03-15-2013, 08:23 AM
  #88
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How has Roy played this year? I know he had a very weak last season in Buffalo, some injuries and he's turning 30 in a month or two. He is getting points now but not goals, just curious if he's having a good bounce back year and whether there's been any concerns about his play and effectiveness in general (when a player struggles around his 30s and has injury issues, these questions arise).

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03-15-2013, 10:25 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Vajakki View Post
How has Roy played this year? I know he had a very weak last season in Buffalo, some injuries and he's turning 30 in a month or two. He is getting points now but not goals, just curious if he's having a good bounce back year and whether there's been any concerns about his play and effectiveness in general (when a player struggles around his 30s and has injury issues, these questions arise).
He's been a solid, reliable player that you can put out there and trust. I'm not seeing a dynamic top six player. He's pretty north and south, workmanlike and not showing creativity. He's also not very fast or all that quick, which I was expecting considering his size and I thought I remembered him being faster. So, I've been a bit disappointed, but I won't mind if they re-sign him because there aren't good centers growing on trees, and even if Eakin is capable of playing in the top six, then someone good would need to be found for the third line. One solution to that might be Schroeder from Vancouver since it sounds like they have interest in Roy.

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03-15-2013, 10:36 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by glovesave_35 View Post
Why? Trade him at the actual deadline when the most business gets done. Every year teams react to trades made by rivals and overspend to make sure they get something to help them out. They should absolutely hold onto him until the deadline day.
I didn't mean now as in immediately. I meant now as in this is probably the only option.

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03-15-2013, 10:53 AM
  #91
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This sucks. Instead of a second line center, the Stars are going to have a gaping hole and a handful of lottery tickets draft picks.

The team will go into next season with Eakin as the second line center and god knows what as the third line center, and Fiddler as the fourth line center. Sadly, it also means Benn will probably be stuck at center for the next several seasons.

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03-15-2013, 11:00 AM
  #92
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Sadly, it also means Benn will probably be stuck at center for the next several seasons.
I'm crying sports tears over this prospect as well.

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03-15-2013, 12:52 PM
  #93
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If Roy is traded then Eakin is more than capable of being our #2. Wouldn't have any issues with that at all, and quite honestly would prefer it.

Perhaps (yeah it's a long shot) but Faksa could possibly be ready to jump into the role Eakin leaves. Also have Sceviour and Wandell still.

I'm cool with just throwing out a bunch of kids and letting them gel together. It'l be a horrible season, but they'd progress nicely I think with a great coach behind them.

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03-15-2013, 12:56 PM
  #94
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Saw your thread on the trade board glovesave. Would've posted there, but it's a bunch of idiots on that board.

I think Roy can get us a 1st this season. Best center on the market it seems.

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03-15-2013, 12:57 PM
  #95
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I'm cool with just throwing out a bunch of kids and letting them gel together. It'l be a horrible season
That's basically giving in and saying, yea...we're going in for 6 straight years of no playoffs. (assuming they don't make it again this year)

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03-15-2013, 01:01 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by Cin View Post
Saw your thread on the trade board glovesave. Would've posted there, but it's a bunch of idiots on that board.

I think Roy can get us a 1st this season. Best center on the market it seems.
Connauton + 3rd...

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03-15-2013, 01:09 PM
  #97
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That's basically giving in and saying, yea...we're going in for 6 straight years of no playoffs. (assuming they don't make it again this year)
Well the team has literally gone nowhere the past four seasons. Why not use the guys you've drafted, and add to them and just push a whole new generation of Stars hockey. Being patient can pay off, and you can look to Chicago for the example. At least we'd have a path we're following then instead of the random **** happening now.

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03-15-2013, 01:18 PM
  #98
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I think Roy can get us a 1st this season. Best center on the market it seems.
Who was the last rental player to land a first round pick in return? When was it?


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I'm crying sports tears over this prospect as well.
Poorly using good players makes me cry also.

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03-15-2013, 01:21 PM
  #99
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Because of the new stupid AHL rules ... I don't want a flood of young guys coming

You can only call 4 players up after the trade deadline, and only those 4 players can return to the AHL for the playoffs.

Plus, anyone already on the roster at the trade deadline can't play in the AHL. If you hide Oleksiak, Smith, Eakin, and Dillon down in the ECHL in a paper work move to allow them in the playoffs, then those are your 4 callups ... and no one else can come up unless it's an emergency call up.

These new rules suck.

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03-15-2013, 01:24 PM
  #100
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Well as much as I want guys to be playing Eakin not in the playoffs isn't a huge deal. The kid has more than earned his NHL stripes as has Dillon. Smith, Fraser and Oleksiak matter.

Besides at this point does anyone think Joe is going to sell Roy for futures? Come on even Eakin was in the NHL. Call me skeptical about Joe's trading ability and the type of player he targets. Cole redo here we come.

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