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Old
03-15-2013, 01:14 PM
  #26
StreakingRed
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Originally Posted by MarkGio View Post
If Washington wanted a package around Stemps + Backlund, I'd consider it

What? No. Just... No!

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03-15-2013, 01:16 PM
  #27
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Ribeiro is no doubt very talented, but he's always been a 1st/good 2nd line center on mediocre/bad teams.

When you factor in his playing style, he's really not the type of player that you win with.

In salary cap age, you need to maximize cost:return. Ribeiro is a player I'd avoid (in the same kind of way I was against the Wideman signing).

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03-15-2013, 01:21 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by TheHudlinator View Post
Jesus Christ no, this draft we get Barkov/Mckinnon/Lindholm/Monahan that is a top 6 center in 2-3 years,
You know this how? We're talking about the Calgary Flames, a club that will likely finih 9-11th in the conference and miss out on a good pick. Or we'll trade away our first for a later 1st and a 2nd. OR our first rounder becomes a bust.

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Originally Posted by TheHudlinator View Post
why in gods name do we trade a just becoming top 6 center in Backlund for a 32 year old UFA center?
And what, Backlund is prodigy under contract for 10 years? Oh wait that's right he's a borderline bust who's expiring at the end of the season. If he does get an offer, it wouldn't be anymore than a 1 yr 1 million contract that could be his last NHL contract


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Originally Posted by TheHudlinator View Post
:This makes literally no sense for a rebuild so we will probably do it.
Who would you rather feeding passes to Gaudrea, Baertschi, Arnold, etc: A borderline 4th liner in Backlund or a decade-proven top 6 centre?

Just because Riberio is 32 years old, doesn't mean he can't help our building assets adjust to the NHL by: (A) winning the puck for possession, (2) setting up the play, (3) provide leadership, (4) help create a winning culture by actually winning games.

I mean holy smokes, since when was Stempniak and Backlund untouchable pieces? I doubt the Capitals would even take it.

This is my counter

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Old
03-15-2013, 01:27 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by tfong View Post
I wanted Ribby here before, but then I saw howmuch diving/chirping he did in Dallas and was not impressed. He hasn't changed in Washington.

But man the guy has sick hands.
This is exactly what this club needs. Guys who can get under the opponents skin, draw some penalties, and instigate some emotion. I'd rather that than our apathetic roster that wouldn't even help-up their goalie after he was bulldozed.

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03-15-2013, 01:28 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by MarkGio View Post
You know this how? We're talking about the Calgary Flames, a club that will likely finih 9-11th in the conference and miss out on a good pick. Or we'll trade away our first for a later 1st and a 2nd. OR our first rounder becomes a bust.


And what, Backlund is prodigy under contract for 10 years? Oh wait that's right he's a borderline bust who's expiring at the end of the season. If he does get an offer, it wouldn't be anymore than a 1 yr 1 million contract that could be his last NHL contract




Who would you rather feeding passes to Gaudrea, Baertschi, Arnold, etc: A borderline 4th liner in Backlund or a decade-proven top 6 centre?

Just because Riberio is 32 years old, doesn't mean he can't help our building assets adjust to the NHL by: (A) winning the puck for possession, (2) setting up the play, (3) provide leadership, (4) help create a winning culture by actually winning games.

I mean holy smokes, since when was Stempniak and Backlund untouchable pieces? I doubt the Capitals would even take it.

This is my counter
Are you insane? Or have you just not watched the team this season? I wouldn't really blame you if it's the latter, but then please don't say that we should trade two of our few bright spots for an UFA center on the wrong side of 30. And I actually like Ribeiro a lot.

Backlund a 4th liner bust? Won't be offered a contract? What?

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03-15-2013, 01:36 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Double Dion View Post
Ugh, no. This is the type of thinking that killed our organization. Backlund is presently our ONLY young forward capable of playing in the top 9 and holding his own. He's also showing lots of upside. We're more than a Ribeiro away from the playoffs.
Are we talking about Mikeal Backlund? The guy who only had to compete with Matt Stajan for the first line, but instead both lost the job to a winger?

The guy who has Cammy, Iginla, Glencross, Stempniak, Hudler, Tanguay, Baertschi, Cervenka as wingers - and to a lesser extent Comeau and Horak - yet still can't make that jump to the next step? Plus he was given the first line last year!

If you say so.

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03-15-2013, 01:41 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Nordberg View Post
Are you insane? Or have you just not watched the team this season? I wouldn't really blame you if it's the latter, but then please don't say that we should trade two of our few bright spots for an UFA center on the wrong side of 30. And I actually like Ribeiro a lot.

Backlund a 4th liner bust? Won't be offered a contract? What?
I've maybe missed 20 games over the past 3 seasons. Legit. Maybe missed 3 games this year.

Backlund is a speedy guy who looks good with the puck, but then time after time nothing shows up on the scoreboard. Plus he's injury prone.

Is there like some numbers people can show me BESIDES HIS AGE that would constitute meaningful arguements as to how Backlund could ever be an impact centremen? I mean impact, like take over a game.

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Old
03-15-2013, 01:44 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by MarkGio View Post
Are we talking about Mikeal Backlund? The guy who only had to compete with Matt Stajan for the first line, but instead both lost the job to a winger?

The guy who has Cammy, Iginla, Glencross, Stempniak, Hudler, Tanguay, Baertschi, Cervenka as wingers - and to a lesser extent Comeau and Horak - yet still can't make that jump to the next step? Plus he was given the first line last year!

If you say so.
And you don't think Backlund is taking that step this season? He is playing miles better and is brimming with confidence. It's not his fault he broke his finger and did whatever it was this season to his leg.

You don't just trade a guy like Backlund when he's playing like he is now. That's a sure fire way to tell your current and future prospects that there's a timer on them the minute they make the NHL before we give up on them.

Patience is key, and the patience we've had with Backlund is starting to pay off.

And seriously, even if we do trade him, Ribeiro is not the guy who should be coming back in that deal.

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03-15-2013, 01:52 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by DBU View Post
And you don't think Backlund is taking that step this season? He is playing miles better and is brimming with confidence. It's not his fault he broke his finger and did whatever it was this season to his leg.

You don't just trade a guy like Backlund when he's playing like he is now. That's a sure fire way to tell your current and future prospects that there's a timer on them the minute they make the NHL before we give up on them.

Patience is key, and the patience we've had with Backlund is starting to pay off.

And seriously, even if we do trade him, Ribeiro is not the guy who should be coming back in that deal.
So offer him a 10 year deal? Or lose him to free agency in a short time if he ever pans out? No I'm serious, put your GM hat on and make a call as to what you would do with the ever growing question mark that is Backlund?

I'll agree Backlund is making strides, but I still don't believe he'll be a number 1. Maybe, just maybe he'll be a top 9. But do you bank on that?

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03-15-2013, 01:52 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkGio View Post
You know this how? We're talking about the Calgary Flames, a club that will likely finih 9-11th in the conference and miss out on a good pick. Or we'll trade away our first for a later 1st and a 2nd. OR our first rounder becomes a bust.


And what, Backlund is prodigy under contract for 10 years? Oh wait that's right he's a borderline bust who's expiring at the end of the season. If he does get an offer, it wouldn't be anymore than a 1 yr 1 million contract that could be his last NHL contract





Who would you rather feeding passes to Gaudrea, Baertschi, Arnold, etc: A borderline 4th liner in Backlund or a decade-proven top 6 centre?

Just because Riberio is 32 years old, doesn't mean he can't help our building assets adjust to the NHL by: (A) winning the puck for possession, (2) setting up the play, (3) provide leadership, (4) help create a winning culture by actually winning games.

I mean holy smokes, since when was Stempniak and Backlund untouchable pieces? I doubt the Capitals would even take it.

This is my counter
You're usually right on the mark, but man. You couldn't not be further from correct on Backlund. I will eat my hat if he signs for $1 Million or less, he is likely worth a 1.75m 2year deal. Hes been great so far this year, and he is an emerging #2C, with great 2-way play.

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03-15-2013, 02:10 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by InfinityIggy View Post
You're usually right on the mark, but man. You couldn't not be further from correct on Backlund. I will eat my hat if he signs for $1 Million or less, he is likely worth a 1.75m 2year deal. Hes been great so far this year, and he is an emerging #2C, with great 2-way play.
I've made comments as to how I enjoy Backlund's confidence and play as of late. Hell I've liked the way a lot of players have looked under Hartely, such as Stajan. But I also look at Backlund as a player, in his what, his 4th season now?

Stempniak is a great example of a guy who can take over a game and get 3 points and make plays every time he's on the ice every night. I could watch 1 game and think "boy, this guy is a top line winger". But obviously that's not the case over a significant sample.

I've yet to see Backlund even perform an impact game once, let alone see a legit top 9 guy over time. He's a depth centremen who cant win the puck off the draw on his best nights, so where's a number 2 coming from?

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03-15-2013, 02:16 PM
  #37
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Lets trade jaybo to FLA so we get their (1st overall), trade iggy to EDM so we get their (2nd overall) and lets finish 27th and hopefully get the third overall. Seth Jones, Nate Mackinnon, Jonathan Drouin all members of the calgary flames.

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Old
03-15-2013, 02:19 PM
  #38
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Ironically, I've always thought Ribeiro looked like Wendell from the Simpsons so we wouldn't even have to make a custom avatar for him.




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03-15-2013, 02:31 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Unlimited Chequing View Post
Ironically, I've always thought Ribeiro looked like Wendell from the Simpsons so we wouldn't even have to make a custom avatar for him.



In that case we should go after Jason Blake


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03-15-2013, 02:37 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by MarkGio View Post
I've made comments as to how I enjoy Backlund's confidence and play as of late. Hell I've liked the way a lot of players have looked under Hartely, such as Stajan. But I also look at Backlund as a player, in his what, his 4th season now?

Stempniak is a great example of a guy who can take over a game and get 3 points and make plays every time he's on the ice every night. I could watch 1 game and think "boy, this guy is a top line winger". But obviously that's not the case over a significant sample.

I've yet to see Backlund even perform an impact game once, let alone see a legit top 9 guy over time. He's a depth centremen who cant win the puck off the draw on his best nights, so where's a number 2 coming from?
You're writing off a 23 year old player because he can't single handily take over games? Are you actually reading what you're writing? It looks like your expectations are completely out of whack.

Backlund at this stage, is without question, a solid 3rd line centre. So far this season, he's shown strides that he can become that solid 2nd line centre that he was expected to be, when drafted. He's suffered a couple of freak injuries, sure, but that categorize him off of that is not only terribly premature, but incredibly stupid too.

Lastly, few if any young centres dominate in the circle early in their careers. Even your seemingly bench mark comparison for all prospects in Crosby struggled early on in the circle.

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Old
03-15-2013, 02:45 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Calculon View Post
You're writing off a 23 year old player because he can't single handily take over games? Are you actually reading what you're writing? It looks like your expectations are completely out of whack.

Backlund at this stage, is without question, a solid 3rd line centre. So far this season, he's shown strides that he can become that solid 2nd line centre that he was expected to be, when drafted. He's suffered a couple of freak injuries, sure, but that categorize him off of that is not only terribly premature, but incredibly stupid too.

Lastly, few if any young centres dominate in the circle early in their careers. Even your seemingly bench mark comparison for all prospects in Crosby struggled early on in the circle.
All I hear is that I don't watch games, my assessment is wack, my expectations are too hig, blah blah blah, but that's still not an argument for Backlund, those are just arguments against me. Nevermind attacking my message, prove it wrong ...

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03-15-2013, 02:53 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by MarkGio View Post
You know this how? We're talking about the Calgary Flames, a club that will likely finih 9-11th in the conference and miss out on a good pick. Or we'll trade away our first for a later 1st and a 2nd. OR our first rounder becomes a bust.
Obviously it isn't 100% that we get one but almost everyone has them all spread out in the top 10 it is very plausible that we get 1 of them.
Quote:
And what, Backlund is prodigy under contract for 10 years? Oh wait that's right he's a borderline bust who's expiring at the end of the season. If he does get an offer, it wouldn't be anymore than a 1 yr 1 million contract that could be his last NHL contract
Border line bust? He is starting to break out this season and your writing him off.


Quote:
Who would you rather feeding passes to Gaudrea, Baertschi, Arnold, etc: A borderline 4th liner in Backlund or a decade-proven top 6 centre?
Lets see Gaudrea is 2-3 years away so I would much rather go with the 25 year old backlund over the 35 year old Ribiero not to mention he is a UFA and can walk so we get neither.

Quote:
Just because Riberio is 32 years old, doesn't mean he can't help our building assets adjust to the NHL by: (A) winning the puck for possession, (2) setting up the play, (3) provide leadership, (4) help create a winning culture by actually winning games.
We have Cammy,Tangs,Iggy,Jbo,Gio,Hudler,Wideman who can all provide leadership that is literally the last thing we need. A winning culture? You make it sound like we can't win a game, over the last 3 years we are 118-90-38 we aren't a dead last team we are just average.

Quote:
I mean holy smokes, since when was Stempniak and Backlund untouchable pieces? I doubt the Capitals would even take it.

This is my counter
I doubt they take it too they would want a 1st + that doesn't mean we would take it either. I never said either are untouchable but we are already the oldest team in the league and instead of allowing one of our few young players to grow you want to ship him out for a stopgap so we can fit for 8th place. If you can't see why this a bad move for the Flames then you must be part of the ownership group. We need to start developing our own players that can help us now and in the future Backlund and Brodie are literally the only players that can do that right now and you want to trade one of them for 30 games of Riberio.

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03-15-2013, 03:04 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by TheHudlinator View Post
Obviously it isn't 100% that we get one but almost everyone has them all spread out in the top 10 it is very plausible that we get 1 of them.


Border line bust? He is starting to break out this season and your writing him off.




Lets see Gaudrea is 2-3 years away so I would much rather go with the 25 year old backlund over the 35 year old Ribiero not to mention he is a UFA and can walk so we get neither.



We have Cammy,Tangs,Iggy,Jbo,Gio,Hudler,Wideman who can all provide leadership that is literally the last thing we need. A winning culture? You make it sound like we can't win a game, over the last 3 years we are 118-90-38 we aren't a dead last team we are just average.



I doubt they take it too they would want a 1st + that doesn't mean we would take it either. I never said either are untouchable but we are already the oldest team in the league and instead of allowing one of our few young players to grow you want to ship him out for a stopgap so we can fit for 8th place. If you can't see why this a bad move for the Flames then you must be part of the ownership group. We need to start developing our own players that can help us now and in the future Backlund and Brodie are literally the only players that can do that right now and you want to trade one of them for 30 games of Riberio.
Whoa Nelly. I'm not advocating we over pay for Riberio because yes, he's a UFA that can walk. I just think regardless where this team proceeds, we need a legit top 6 centremen between our wingers, whoever they are. I don't think Backlund is that. I don't like the idea of Stajan and Backlund facing Crosby, Toews, Kopitar, Spezza, Thorton, etc and so forth.

I think this club has proven to me know matter what coach, no matter what talent, if you don't have a legit #1/2 center, you'll never be more than average at best

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03-15-2013, 03:07 PM
  #44
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Whoa Nelly. I'm not advocating we over pay for Riberio because yes, he's a UFA that can walk. I just think regardless where this team proceeds, we need a legit top 6 centremen between our wingers, whoever they are. I don't think Backlund is that. I don't like the idea of Stajan and Backlund facing Crosby, Toews, Kopitar, Spezza, Thorton, etc and so forth.

I think this club has proven to me know matter what coach, no matter what talent, if you don't have a legit #1/2 center, you'll never be more than average at best
I also don't like that idea much but Riberio is not the solution is a good player on a very good streak, we aren't on a position to simply give up on a player that has looked great this year (maybe you were expecting more but Backlund looks like a top 6 player). I would rather run with Backlund/Stajan then trade a good trading piece (stemps) and Backlund for a stop gap. We need to be thinking long term and long term Riberio is not the answer Backlund might have a spot.

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03-15-2013, 03:24 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by MarkGio View Post
You know this how? We're talking about the Calgary Flames, a club that will likely finih 9-11th in the conference and miss out on a good pick. Or we'll trade away our first for a later 1st and a 2nd. OR our first rounder becomes a bust.


And what, Backlund is prodigy under contract for 10 years? Oh wait that's right he's a borderline bust who's expiring at the end of the season. If he does get an offer, it wouldn't be anymore than a 1 yr 1 million contract that could be his last NHL contract




Who would you rather feeding passes to Gaudrea, Baertschi, Arnold, etc: A borderline 4th liner in Backlund or a decade-proven top 6 centre?

Just because Riberio is 32 years old, doesn't mean he can't help our building assets adjust to the NHL by: (A) winning the puck for possession, (2) setting up the play, (3) provide leadership, (4) help create a winning culture by actually winning games.

I mean holy smokes, since when was Stempniak and Backlund untouchable pieces? I doubt the Capitals would even take it.

This is my counter
What a ridiculous statement. I'm not sure how a player on pace for 29 goals and 45 points over a full season is a "borderline bust." Especially when that player in the best skater and defensive player in our forward ranks not named Glencross. Backlund will get more than 1 million for more term than one year.

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03-15-2013, 03:28 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by MarkGio View Post
So offer him a 10 year deal? Or lose him to free agency in a short time if he ever pans out? No I'm serious, put your GM hat on and make a call as to what you would do with the ever growing question mark that is Backlund?

I'll agree Backlund is making strides, but I still don't believe he'll be a number 1. Maybe, just maybe he'll be a top 9. But do you bank on that?
He's easily a top 9 right now. There is literally no debating it. No one is saying he will ever be a #1 center, just that we shouldn't trade him. I see him as a Langkow type player in his prime. He could stay what he is now, (a 2nd/3rd line tweener) but he also could develop into a good 2nd line center.

Ribeiro's numbers at Backlund's age projected over 82 games: G 8 A 19 P 27

Backlund's numbers over 82 games: G 30 A 15 P 45

There is no debate about who is better in battles and defensively. I'm aware the sample size is small, but Backlund also put up better numbers than Berglund and other good NHLers in Sweden during the lockout. There is good evidence he's turned a corner after having his development slowed with all the injuries.


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03-15-2013, 03:41 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by MarkGio View Post
Are we talking about Mikeal Backlund? The guy who only had to compete with Matt Stajan for the first line, but instead both lost the job to a winger?

The guy who has Cammy, Iginla, Glencross, Stempniak, Hudler, Tanguay, Baertschi, Cervenka as wingers - and to a lesser extent Comeau and Horak - yet still can't make that jump to the next step? Plus he was given the first line last year!

If you say so.
I think the major issue is that ribierio won't help the team make the playoffs this season, so why send assets to acquire him in a trade when he could be signed as a free agent in July?

You haven't answered that question.

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03-15-2013, 04:15 PM
  #48
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If anythinf we should acquire Richards, I hear he isn't doing too well on nyr.

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03-15-2013, 04:36 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Stewie Griffin View Post
I think the major issue is that ribierio won't help the team make the playoffs this season, so why send assets to acquire him in a trade when he could be signed as a free agent in July?

You haven't answered that question.
We do this every year. We never land that free agent center and then we're stuck picking up scraps. I think Stempniak + Backlund can be recovered more or less, but we can't obtain a #1 center. There's plenty of depth centres and wingers every year to pick from. There's 30 clubs chasing that much needed hole and chances are Riberio won't go for us. But at least if we obtain him for spare parts, it's a lateral move, it's not detrimental to the future and it fills holes in the organization for a short term until the organization can find a better solution.

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03-15-2013, 04:42 PM
  #50
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If anythinf we should acquire Richards, I hear he isn't doing too well on nyr.
After he chose not to sign with us?

Cant really see that happening.

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