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ATD 2013 Lineup Advice Thread

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Old
03-14-2013, 12:51 PM
  #401
Sanf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sturminator View Post
Comparing Svedberg's scoring in the world championships to Suchy's is rather enlightening, though. They were contemporaries, both breaking onto their respective national teams for the 1965 world championships. Suchy played a good deal more games for his national team (Svedberg was evidently dropped from the team after 1965, and first appeared again in the 1968 olympics), but we can at least roughly compare their scoring by looking at how they did when playing in the same tournaments.

PlayerGoalsAssistsPointsGames PlayedPoints per Game
Jan Suchy212546650.71
Lennart Svedberg6814440.32

Now, I don't know if this is fair to Svedberg or not, but it's the closest thing I can get to a barometer on his offensive skills. I'm not sure how complimentary this ends up being; it is less than I had expected. Now, Suchy is a strong top pairing QB in my opinion, but less than half of his production is...less good.
Svedberg was also in 1966 Ljublana. Points 0+2 if Czech sources are correct. Apparently played on second pairing and didnīt play in all games.

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Old
03-14-2013, 01:29 PM
  #402
TheDevilMadeMe
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Any suggestions to improve my special teams?

PP (normal)
Sid Abel - Phil Esposito - Daniel Alfredsson
Ilya Kovalchuk - Paul Coffey

Bill Thoms - Milan Novy - George Armstrong
Bob Dailey - Lloyd Cook

PP (with a late lead)
Sid Abel - Phil Esposito - Ilya Kovalchuk
Lloyd Cook - Paul Coffey

George Armstrong - Milan Novy - Daniel Alfredsson
Bob Dailey - Tom Johnson

PK
Ken Mosdell - Jerry Toppazzini
Tom Johnson - Bill White

Bill Thoms - Tony Leswick
Gary Bergman - Bob Dailey

extras: Sid Abel - George Armstrong
Lloyd Cook

Kovalchuk and Coffey will play almost the full PP together, unless Kovy is moved up front to protect a late lead. If anyone wants me to post an article about Kovalchuk's legendary endurance, I can do that. Alfredsson will drop back to cover if Coffey goes into rover mode.

Bill Thoms is something of an unknown here, probably because Pelletier only came out with a bio of him recently, so nobody had any reason to suspect there was more to his game than offense, so he was usually used as a spare previously (and nobody usually bothers to bio spares - until Billy did and found the Lloyd Percival quote confirming what Pelletier said about Thoms' poke/stick checking). Here's a mini-bio of Thoms: http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...&postcount=970

Here's a quick link to my roster post in case anyone wants to look at bios of the other guys: http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...5&postcount=29

Bill White and Bob Dailey are right-handed shots (as is Ilya Kovalchuk) - the rest of the defense are left-handed.


Last edited by TheDevilMadeMe: 03-14-2013 at 01:37 PM.
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Old
03-14-2013, 02:23 PM
  #403
Rob Scuderi
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
I was hoping someone else would answer this, since I'm not really an expert on these players, but I'd lean towards Nevin over Tremblay for the first unit.
Those were my two PKing wingers last year and I had them in the order you said. Nevin's post-expansion usage that has a number on it is pretty steep.

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Originally Posted by Sturminator View Post
Yeah, that's pretty much how I see it. Mantha does not belong on an ATD 1st unit powerplay, but I think he's capable of manning a point on a 2nd unit. I don't consider him high-end even in this role, but he definitely did have offensive ability, and was not a pure stay-at-home guy, by any means. Cecil Hart seems to have built his system somewhat around having at least one puckmoving defenseman. If I recall correctly, when he returned to Montreal, pretty much Hart's first act as general manager was to trade for Babe Siebert, who he used in this role (Mantha already being finished).

edit: it was Babe Siebert, not Reg Noble. Of course not...Noble retired even before Mantha did.
You had reason to mix up Noble FWIW, Hart paid $6,000 for him with the Maroons and then resigned from the club when management questioned him over it.

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Old
03-14-2013, 03:31 PM
  #404
Hawkey Town 18
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Any suggestions to improve my special teams?

PP (normal)
Sid Abel - Phil Esposito - Daniel Alfredsson
Ilya Kovalchuk - Paul Coffey

Bill Thoms - Milan Novy - George Armstrong
Bob Dailey - Lloyd Cook

PP (with a late lead)
Sid Abel - Phil Esposito - Ilya Kovalchuk
Lloyd Cook - Paul Coffey

George Armstrong - Milan Novy - Daniel Alfredsson
Bob Dailey - Tom Johnson

PK
Ken Mosdell - Jerry Toppazzini
Tom Johnson - Bill White

Bill Thoms - Tony Leswick
Gary Bergman - Bob Dailey

extras: Sid Abel - George Armstrong
Lloyd Cook

Kovalchuk and Coffey will play almost the full PP together, unless Kovy is moved up front to protect a late lead. If anyone wants me to post an article about Kovalchuk's legendary endurance, I can do that. Alfredsson will drop back to cover if Coffey goes into rover mode.

Bill Thoms is something of an unknown here, probably because Pelletier only came out with a bio of him recently, so nobody had any reason to suspect there was more to his game than offense, so he was usually used as a spare previously (and nobody usually bothers to bio spares - until Billy did and found the Lloyd Percival quote confirming what Pelletier said about Thoms' poke/stick checking). Here's a mini-bio of Thoms: http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...&postcount=970

Here's a quick link to my roster post in case anyone wants to look at bios of the other guys: http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...5&postcount=29

Bill White and Bob Dailey are right-handed shots (as is Ilya Kovalchuk) - the rest of the defense are left-handed.
Special Teams Units look pretty good overall. That first PP unit is going to be one of the best in the league. The 2nd PP unit seems like it could use someone that's a better finisher up front. PK units look good, especially up front.

EDIT: I don't know much about Bob Dailey, but Tom Johnson seems like he might be better on the 2nd PP unit, but then you don't have a RHS out there, so I'm not sure. Also probably depends on how much that 2nd pairing is going to be playing at ES and whom against. With Kovalchuk and Coffey playing most of the PP anyway it's probably not that big of a deal.

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03-14-2013, 03:37 PM
  #405
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Wow, the comments on my potential powerplay personell raise more questions than they answer. Just to check, we all agree that Sakic goes on my first unit, right?


After all that, my own personal leanings go towards:

First unit
Down low: Adams
Up high: Sakic, Firsov
Points: Pilote, Duchesne

Second unit
Down low: Perry
Up high: Modano, Bailey
Points: Weight, (literally any of the other defensemen, I have to research this better)

That way, you get your dirty net presence, you get talented forwards on both units, and the points will sort themselves out before assassination starts. I really drafted my defense for mobility, which helps a lot more at ES...only Duchesne was drafted as a specialist anything.


Although I do have to address this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalyd Psycho View Post
If anything, I question Hall's defensive game. He's physical and most I've read has him as a solid offensive d-man. He's not bad defensively, but a shutdown guy? No.
Leafs Forever's bio on him turned up multiple mentions of his defensive play, including his shot-blocking, and how his defensive play allowed his teams' forward to roam freely. The only mention of his offensive talent referred to his early career.
Now, I'll take his offensive results as evidence that he won't be a black hole or puckhandling liability, but what I've read doesn't suggest "cowboy" so much as "very nasty in all areas."

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Old
03-14-2013, 04:22 PM
  #406
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Originally Posted by Bring Back Scuderi View Post
You had reason to mix up Noble FWIW, Hart paid $6,000 for him with the Maroons and then resigned from the club when management questioned him over it.
Of course. I knew there was some reason Noble's name popped into my mind. Right, Hart did this twice. Pretty much his first act in both placed was to acquire a puckmoving defenseman.

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Old
03-14-2013, 04:35 PM
  #407
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Originally Posted by Hawkey Town 18 View Post
Special Teams Units look pretty good overall. That first PP unit is going to be one of the best in the league. The 2nd PP unit seems like it could use someone that's a better finisher up front. PK units look good, especially up front.
Thanks. When I started with Esposito and Coffey, I figured I'd want to stack the first PP unit as much as possible - also why I was so keen on drafting Kovalchuk, who in the NHL has played the point of the PP, often for the full 2 minutes, over a number of years, through a number of coaching changes.

My second PP is the weakest of my special teams units, but that's fine. IMO, #2 PP is the least important - the #1 PP usually plays the first 1:20 or so of a 2 minute penalty, and if they score, the 2nd PP doesn't play at all. Whereas the penalty killers tend to take shorter shifts. I see Milan Novy as the catalyst for the 2nd PP up front with Armstrong as the net guy.

Quote:
EDIT: I don't know much about Bob Dailey, but Tom Johnson seems like he might be better on the 2nd PP unit, but then you don't have a RHS out there, so I'm not sure. Also probably depends on how much that 2nd pairing is going to be playing at ES and whom against. With Kovalchuk and Coffey playing most of the PP anyway it's probably not that big of a deal.
I originally had Johnson on the 2nd PP, but I think I like Dailey there better. If I needed a QB for the 2nd unit, I'd pick Johnson, but I have Lloyd Cook to do that. From what I've read about Dailey, his most noteworthy asset is his 100 mph slapshot. I see him basically taking Kovy's place, while Cook takes Coffey's place for mopup duty at the end of the PP.

I'm going to try to give Tom Johnson as many minutes in a shut down role as possible, because I think that's what he's best at (and because I don't want Coffey to have to do that!)

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03-14-2013, 06:34 PM
  #408
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Engine View Post
Wow, the comments on my potential powerplay personell raise more questions than they answer. Just to check, we all agree that Sakic goes on my first unit, right?


After all that, my own personal leanings go towards:

First unit
Down low: Adams
Up high: Sakic, Firsov
Points: Pilote, Duchesne

Second unit
Down low: Perry
Up high: Modano, Bailey
Points: Weight, (literally any of the other defensemen, I have to research this better)

That way, you get your dirty net presence, you get talented forwards on both units, and the points will sort themselves out before assassination starts. I really drafted my defense for mobility, which helps a lot more at ES...only Duchesne was drafted as a specialist anything.
This is probably the best set up, and like you, I have no idea who should be your 4th point man. Seems like you have a lot of guys who would be passable, but not awesome, there.

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03-14-2013, 07:46 PM
  #409
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I'm a little late to the Phaneuf conversation, but personally I have no issue with him as a bottom pairing defenseman. I have watched him quite a bit this year and the feeling that I get from him is that he plays a very solid shutdown game as well as heavy PP minutes, he plays a lot of minutes (hard minutes against top line players) BUT he is prone to one or two brain farts a game which in the end overshadow his body of work for an entire game.

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Old
03-14-2013, 09:32 PM
  #410
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delete, nvm.

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Old
03-14-2013, 09:43 PM
  #411
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Originally Posted by markrander87 View Post
I'm a little late to the Phaneuf conversation, but personally I have no issue with him as a bottom pairing defenseman. I have watched him quite a bit this year and the feeling that I get from him is that he plays a very solid shutdown game as well as heavy PP minutes, he plays a lot of minutes (hard minutes against top line players) BUT he is prone to one or two brain farts a game which in the end overshadow his body of work for an entire game.
Yeah his hockey sense isn't so good but if he had a nice reliable stay at home guy to cover one of those brain farts a game he'd be really effective soaking up all those minutes.

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Old
03-14-2013, 10:18 PM
  #412
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Questions for everyone here.

My second PP unit is currently:
Baldy Northcott-Pete Mahovlich-Martin St Louis-Reg Noble-Ted Green

Other possible line-ups:
Jiri Holik-Pete Mahovlich-Martin St Louis-Reg Noble-Ted Green
Zach Parise-Pete Mahovlich-Martin St Louis-Reg Noble-Ted Green
Pete Mahovlich-Ken Linseman-Martin St Louis-Reg Noble-Ted Green
Ken Linseman-Pete Mahovlich-Martin St Louis-Reg Noble-Ted Green

Which do people think works best?

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Old
03-14-2013, 10:41 PM
  #413
TheDevilMadeMe
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Originally Posted by Nalyd Psycho View Post
Questions for everyone here.

My second PP unit is currently:
Baldy Northcott-Pete Mahovlich-Martin St Louis-Reg Noble-Ted Green

Other possible line-ups:
Jiri Holik-Pete Mahovlich-Martin St Louis-Reg Noble-Ted Green
Zach Parise-Pete Mahovlich-Martin St Louis-Reg Noble-Ted Green
Pete Mahovlich-Ken Linseman-Martin St Louis-Reg Noble-Ted Green
Ken Linseman-Pete Mahovlich-Martin St Louis-Reg Noble-Ted Green

Which do people think works best?
The one without Pete Mahovlich. Oh wait

Seriously though, I'll give you a real answer when I get home if nobody else does first

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Old
03-14-2013, 10:45 PM
  #414
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
The one without Pete Mahovlich. Oh wait

Seriously though, I'll give you a real answer when I get home if nobody else does first
Mahovlich's problem is more his even strength scoring, which is why he's better used as a checker then. His special teams play is excellent.

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Old
03-15-2013, 12:02 AM
  #415
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Originally Posted by Nalyd Psycho View Post
Mahovlich's problem is more his even strength scoring, which is why he's better used as a checker then. His special teams play is excellent.
I couldn't find anything on him being a good PP player when I had him last year, but I didn't really try. His scoring resume wasn't good enough where I bothered. Was he known for screening the goalie on the PP or something?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalyd Psycho View Post
Questions for everyone here.

My second PP unit is currently:
Baldy Northcott-Pete Mahovlich-Martin St Louis-Reg Noble-Ted Green

Other possible line-ups:
Jiri Holik-Pete Mahovlich-Martin St Louis-Reg Noble-Ted Green
Zach Parise-Pete Mahovlich-Martin St Louis-Reg Noble-Ted Green
Pete Mahovlich-Ken Linseman-Martin St Louis-Reg Noble-Ted Green
Ken Linseman-Pete Mahovlich-Martin St Louis-Reg Noble-Ted Green

Which do people think works best?
I would probably do Northcott- Linseman - St Louis to be honest.

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Old
03-15-2013, 08:50 AM
  #416
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Bobby Hull - Sergei Fedorov - Theo Fleury
Keith Tkachuk - Pavel Datsyuk - Pavel Bure
Igor Liba - Mike Peca - Paul MacLean
Johnny Gottselig - Dan Bain - Tomas Sandstrom


Bill Gadsby - Harvey Pulford
Moose Vasko - Reed Larson
Graham Drinkwater - Robert Svehla

Harry Lumley
Mike Liut


PP1: Larson - Gadsby - Hull - Tkachuk - Fedorov
PP2: Svehla - Drinkwater - Bure - Datsyuk - Fleury

PK1: Gadsby - Pulford - Peca - Fedorov
PK2: Vasko - Svehla - Datsyuk - Fleury

Think the special teams fit? I wanted to give Tkachuk a role as net presence on first PP.

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Old
03-15-2013, 02:28 PM
  #417
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Gary Roberts - Sidney Crosby(A)- Rick Tocchet
Alexander Yakushev - Evgeni Malkin - Tomas Holmstrom
Nick Metz - Syl Apps Sr - Bill Guerin
John Madden - Jacques Lemaire(C) - Boris Mayorov
Ryan Getzlaf

Dallas Smith - Eddie Shore
Rob Blake(A) - Zinetula Bilyaletdinov
Sandis Ozolinsh - Oldrich "Olin" Machac
Tim Thomas
G


PP1:
Roberts - Apps - Crosby
Blake - Shore

PP2:
Yakushev - Malkin - Holmstrom/Crosby
Blake - Shore



PK1:
Madden - Lemaire
Shore - Machac

PK2:
Metz - Lemaire/Crosby
Blake - Bilyaletdinov

Any criticism/imput is most welcome! Thanks guys.

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03-15-2013, 02:35 PM
  #418
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^Don't play Crosby for the whole powerplay, 1st line, and killing penalties.

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03-15-2013, 02:43 PM
  #419
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Yeah, going with an offensive center for your 3rd line, and then using your first line guy to do everything seems like a bit of a contradiction in team building.

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Old
03-15-2013, 02:44 PM
  #420
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Doubling up Lemaire on the PK doesn't make sense either.

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Old
03-15-2013, 02:44 PM
  #421
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reds4Life View Post
Gary Roberts - Sidney Crosby(A)- Rick Tocchet
Alexander Yakushev - Evgeni Malkin - Tomas Holmstrom
Nick Metz - Syl Apps Sr - Bill Guerin
John Madden - Jacques Lemaire(C) - Boris Mayorov
Ryan Getzlaf

Dallas Smith - Eddie Shore
Rob Blake(A) - Zinetula Bilyaletdinov
Sandis Ozolinsh - Oldrich "Olin" Machac
Tim Thomas
G


PP1:
Roberts - Apps - Crosby
Blake - Shore

PP2:
Yakushev - Malkin - Holmstrom/Crosby
Blake - Shore



PK1:
Madden - Lemaire
Shore - Machac

PK2:
Metz - Lemaire/Crosby
Blake - Bilyaletdinov

Any criticism/imput is most welcome! Thanks guys.
What the heck is your best forward doing on the third line? I would play Apps on the first line and give him your best wing - Yakushev. I think Yakushev was best in front of the net, and he can pick up Apps' garbage like Drillion did. I would also put Yakushev on the first PP instead of Roberts.

Holmstrom needs to be on the 4th line at even strength (with PP time) or benched.

I don't think Rob Blake should play the full PP, and I really question whether Shore should do it, if he's also playing 1st pairing PK.

I might be off here, but wasn't Machac an offense-first defenseman who played next to the more well-rounded Pospisil?

I agree with MB - you're way overplaying Crosby, especially considering his short career and injury history.


I would switch Blake and Bilyaletdinov's sides at even strength.

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03-15-2013, 02:45 PM
  #422
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
^Don't play Crosby for the whole powerplay, 1st line, and killing penalties.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Engine View Post
Yeah, going with an offensive center for your 3rd line, and then using your first line guy to do everything seems like a bit of a contradiction in team building.
The "/Crosby" meant to imply that he might take some extra shifts if needed, not that he'd play there regularly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
What the heck is your best forward doing on the third line? I would play Apps on the first line and give him your best wing - Yakushev. I think Yakushev was best in front of the net, and he can pick up Apps' garbage like Drillion did. I would also put Yakushev on the first PP instead of Roberts.

Holmstrom needs to be on the 4th line at even strength (with PP time) or benched.

I don't think Rob Blake should play the full PP, and I really question whether Shore should do it, if he's also playing 1st pairing PK.

I might be off here, but wasn't Machac an offense-first defenseman who played next to the more well-rounded Pospisil?

I agree with MB - you're way overplaying Crosby, especially considering his short career and injury history.


I would switch Blake and Bilyaletdinov's sides at even strength.
For me, the first three lines are interchangeable - so Apps' unit could be considered as the first line.
Why would you bench Holmstrom? Just wondering..I think he adds a lot of sand paper and puck winning.
Machac was indeed offensive minded defenseman, but he could play PK as well.

Thank you very much for the tips so far guys.

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03-15-2013, 02:47 PM
  #423
TheDevilMadeMe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MadArcand View Post
Bobby Hull - Sergei Fedorov - Theo Fleury
Keith Tkachuk - Pavel Datsyuk - Pavel Bure
Igor Liba - Mike Peca - Paul MacLean
Johnny Gottselig - Dan Bain - Tomas Sandstrom


Bill Gadsby - Harvey Pulford
Moose Vasko - Reed Larson
Graham Drinkwater - Robert Svehla

Harry Lumley
Mike Liut


PP1: Larson - Gadsby - Hull - Tkachuk - Fedorov
PP2: Svehla - Drinkwater - Bure - Datsyuk - Fleury

PK1: Gadsby - Pulford - Peca - Fedorov
PK2: Vasko - Svehla - Datsyuk - Fleury

Think the special teams fit? I wanted to give Tkachuk a role as net presence on first PP.
You have the option to play Fedorov on the point instead of Svehla (who is a pretty weak pointman), but then I don't know who would take faceoffs for you. I think Gottselig is probably a better PKer than Fleury, no? I mean, you're barely using him, might as well get some use from him.

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03-15-2013, 02:47 PM
  #424
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The "/Crosby" meant to imply that he might take some extra shifts if needed, not that he'd play there regularly.
Well, he would be needed, because you can't possibly expect Jacques Lemaire to play the full PK.

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Old
03-15-2013, 02:48 PM
  #425
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalyd Psycho View Post
Questions for everyone here.

My second PP unit is currently:
Baldy Northcott-Pete Mahovlich-Martin St Louis-Reg Noble-Ted Green

Other possible line-ups:
Jiri Holik-Pete Mahovlich-Martin St Louis-Reg Noble-Ted Green
Zach Parise-Pete Mahovlich-Martin St Louis-Reg Noble-Ted Green
Pete Mahovlich-Ken Linseman-Martin St Louis-Reg Noble-Ted Green
Ken Linseman-Pete Mahovlich-Martin St Louis-Reg Noble-Ted Green

Which do people think works best?
Where does Ted Green get ATD PP cred?

I thought he only had a very small time as a good offensive defenseman before he got beaned?

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