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Do the Habs need Heavyweight enforcer? Part 2

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Old
03-15-2013, 01:30 PM
  #726
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Originally Posted by sakiaba View Post
Fourth liners can contribute by eating tough minutes against the opposition's top lines. They don't need to score to contribute, they only need to avoid being scored against, ideally by not being bottled up in their own zone. This allows the other three lines to play more minutes against the other team's depth players. For instance, one of the reasons that Plekanec has been so much more productive this year is that he's not stuck taking defensive zone faceoffs against the other team's top line as much.

If one-dimensional enforcers are played for too many minutes... well, you're the Toronto Maple Leafs. And I was going to make a comment about goons mostly sitting in the press box come playoff time, but Toronto probably won't have to worry about that.

Go watch Bordeleau play

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03-15-2013, 01:33 PM
  #727
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I don't think that anyone here really thinks that we shouldn't have team toughness... it's just that ideally you need to have tough players who can also play hockey. Prust may not be a heavyweight, but no one would deny that he's improved team toughness. It's maddening, but one of the reasons that the Bruins are so good is that most of their tough players also contribute in other ways (the exception being Thornton, who is atrocious).
ok. I can see know that its a waste of time arguing with you.

A 4th line of Armstrong-Armstrong-Armstrong would make you happy

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03-15-2013, 01:33 PM
  #728
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I've played competitive hockey on teams that were tough and soft. When tough, we played better. When soft, we'd even joke - nervously - about this or that team. It f's with your mind and your game. Is this really so hard to understand? Can anyone who has played Junior, on a soft team, claim this isn't true?
Well, Bergevin seems to not necessarily share your view. I think he's played some hockey.

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03-15-2013, 01:35 PM
  #729
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Well, Bergevin seems to not necessarily share your view. I think he's played some hockey.
You're wrong. But you know that - or should - given that Bergevin is actively looking for such a player.

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03-15-2013, 01:37 PM
  #730
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Night and Day

Guy's like Gally and Chucky and even Eller are kids still seeing Neal, kassian, Orr, Maclean, lucid, Chara and the rest can and is intimidating. In one game it may not be to bad but for maybe 21 games you think Prust will last.

Most know the other team will target these kids and once Prust is out for fighting. All the other teams will send the wolves out to get the sheep. That is the plan they even said after the leaf game, TAKE OUT THE WILL TO COMPETE

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03-15-2013, 01:39 PM
  #731
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Well, Bergevin seems to not necessarily share your view. I think he's played some hockey.
What do you know what he is thinking

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03-15-2013, 01:42 PM
  #732
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Originally Posted by izzy75 View Post
You're wrong. But you know that - or should - given that Bergevin is actively looking for such a player.
Since this is the heavyweight thread, I assumed you were just talking about acquiring one. It would be easy for Bergevin to go out and acquire a heavyweight, or a guy who just fights. They're dirt cheap because they're borderline useless. He could have got one by now, and with the playoffs approaching quickly (where enforcers never play), I wonder if he cares about acquiring one at all. If he does want one, it's pretty low on his priority list.

If you're talking about team toughness, then obviously everyone on this board wants that, and bergevin as well.

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Originally Posted by doc lafleur View Post
What do you know what he is thinking
I said 'not necessarily' and 'seems to', step a bit out of your comfort zone one day and try actually reading what others post before quoting them.

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03-15-2013, 01:45 PM
  #733
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Originally Posted by overlords View Post
Since this is the heavyweight thread, I assumed you were just talking about acquiring one. It would be easy for Bergevin to go out and acquire a heavyweight, or a guy who just fights. They're dirt cheap because they're borderline useless. He could have got one by now, and with the playoffs approaching quickly (where enforcers never play), I wonder if he cares about acquiring one at all. If he does want one, it's pretty low on his priority list.

If you're talking about team toughness, then obviously everyone on this board wants that, and bergevin as well.
But allegedly Bergevin made a waiver claim for Sestito, which is iron proof that he knows that a huge heavyweight fighter who can't play hockey is a priority for this team and therefore you are wrong, that is clearly his priority because someone on twitter said so and smurfs and the Bruins and Europeans, etc.

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03-15-2013, 01:45 PM
  #734
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Yep. Anyone who wants to know what this board would be like if the Habs signed a straight goon should just read the Rangers board over the past few years.

First they signed Boogard, queue much rejoicing. Within weeks they were questioning why people were still getting cheapshotted, why wasn't Boogard fighting more, what a waste of a roster space, all the other players are soft.

Then they signed Rupp and basically repeated the cycle.
The fact that you refer to Rupp as a "straight goon" exposes how little weight your arguments have.

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03-15-2013, 01:47 PM
  #735
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But allegedly Bergevin made a waiver claim for Sestito, which is iron proof that he knows that a huge heavyweight fighter who can't play hockey is a priority for this team and therefore you are wrong, that is clearly his priority because someone on twitter said so and smurfs and the Bruins and Europeans, etc.
Doesn't sestito kinda suck at fighting anyway?

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The fact that you refer to Rupp as a "straight goon" exposes how little weight your arguments have.
I used to love rupp. Much like clowe, he's really slowed down... But agreed, Rupp was a real good 4th line C with toughness at a certain point.

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03-15-2013, 01:48 PM
  #736
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The fact that you refer to Rupp as a "straight goon" exposes how little weight your arguments have.
By last year, Rupp had slowed down to the point that he was no longer the player he once was, and wasn't much more than a "straight goon". Pretty much every Rangers fan I talked to was happy to see him gone this year.

The Rupp that played for Jersey a few years ago was not the Rupp of late. I'd take the old Rupp over anyone on our fourth line, now he's a 13th forward at best.

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Doesn't sestito kinda suck at fighting anyway?
Yeah, but he's big.

Actually there's probably more to Sestito than I realize, since two of the best run organizations in the NHL, the Canucks and Blackhawks, made claims for him, which isn't the case for the usual flavour of the day goons this board freaks out over when they hit the waiver wire.

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03-15-2013, 02:02 PM
  #737
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Doesn't sestito kinda suck at fighting anyway?
Yes. but he's better than Moen, White

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03-15-2013, 02:05 PM
  #738
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Yes. but he's better than Moen, White
...at fighting. Let's not pretend he brings more to the table than Moen overall.

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03-15-2013, 02:07 PM
  #739
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...at fighting. Let's not pretend he brings more to the table than Moen overall.
yes, I'm talking about fighting here

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03-15-2013, 02:56 PM
  #740
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100% true
110% True.

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Old
03-15-2013, 03:08 PM
  #741
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Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
The fact that you refer to Rupp as a "straight goon" exposes how little weight your arguments have.
Well I guess you can just about make a tenuous link between a phrase I used in the first line of my post and the last line. Pretty weak way to avoid addressing the actual point though.

For apparently necessary clarification, Rupp was more than a 'straight goon' (although his play has dropped off over the past two years). His signing was however greeted by a portion of the Rangers fanbase as a cure for their 'toughness issues' similar to the Boogard signing. In both cases they swiftly discovered that icing a heavyweight is not the magic cure that certain people assume.

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Old
03-15-2013, 03:39 PM
  #742
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Notwithstanding the fact that the injury Prust is out with didn't occur in the fight with Finlay and that noone actually knows when Bourque's concussion occurred, which of those incidents are you claiming that our mythical enforcer would have been on the ice for?
You're the same guy who just said something extremely similar about Wiercoch fighting, when Neil was on the ice. You also said that the trade for Kassian had nothing to do with Sens players fighting although the GM of the team said otherwise. Your opinions and arguments hold no H2O.

If the Habs have a tough guy? Orr doesn't go after Plekanec, or punch out Bourque. Because there is a presence.

But I can only assume you know more about hockey then the GMs of Ottawa, Buffalo, Toronto and Boston right?

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03-15-2013, 03:47 PM
  #743
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If the Habs have a tough guy? Orr doesn't go after Plekanec, or punch out Bourque. Because there is a presence.
Against Boston Orr ran someone into the boards and then had his gloves off punching the first guy who arrived (McQuaid). Do Boston not have a 'presence'?

Quite funny that people actually think the likes of Orr would be deterred from taking runs at people by the threat that they might have to fight someone. It's Orr's job to get into fights with people, that's the only reason he's employed!

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03-15-2013, 04:14 PM
  #744
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Originally Posted by izzy75 View Post
I've played competitive hockey on teams that were tough and soft. When tough, we played better. When soft, we'd even joke - nervously - about this or that team. It f's with your mind and your game. Is this really so hard to understand? Can anyone who has played Junior, on a soft team, claim this isn't true?
One enforcer doesn't make a soft team tough.

I personally don't think we are a soft team to begin with which means we need an enforcer even less. In fact on a toughness scale I would say we are more tough then soft. We aren't intimidating tough like the Bruins, instead we are a gritty tough with players who play bigger than they are.

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03-15-2013, 04:19 PM
  #745
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Originally Posted by Corncob View Post
Against Boston Orr ran someone into the boards and then had his gloves off punching the first guy who arrived (McQuaid). Do Boston not have a 'presence'?

Quite funny that people actually think the likes of Orr would be deterred from taking runs at people by the threat that they might have to fight someone. It's Orr's job to get into fights with people, that's the only reason he's employed!


Well said!

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Old
03-15-2013, 04:25 PM
  #746
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One enforcer doesn't make a soft team tough.

I personally don't think we are a soft team to begin with which means we need an enforcer even less. In fact on a toughness scale I would say we are more tough then soft. We aren't intimidating tough like the Bruins, instead we are a gritty tough with players who play bigger than they are.
yes, we are a tough team. A really tough team. And we have full of grit too. A really gritty team.

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03-15-2013, 04:37 PM
  #747
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yes, we are a tough team. A really tough team. And we have full of grit too. A really gritty team.
Fine why don't you rank this team's toughness on a scale of 1-10. Then tell me where they would be after we get an enforcer. Please enlighten us.

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03-15-2013, 04:57 PM
  #748
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instead we are a gritty tough with players who play bigger than they are.
Oh God I hope that opinion isn't shared my management

I'm pretty sure Momesso, Nilan and most other commentators i've heard disagree with you.

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03-15-2013, 05:20 PM
  #749
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Oh God I hope that opinion isn't shared my management

I'm pretty sure Momesso, Nilan and most other commentators i've heard disagree with you.
So who do you consider soft and who do you consider gritty on this team?

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03-15-2013, 05:31 PM
  #750
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Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
The guy replacing Armstrong is Dumont. Bordeleau would replace White
Nah, replace Moen.

Dumont Bordeleau and White would be an effective shut down line that could/would kick some ass when needed.

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