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Old
03-15-2013, 04:10 PM
  #76
Jack de la Hoya
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Hoover View Post
I personally think Kulemin is too much to give up. Bozak would be a solid stop-gap for now so you wouldn't have to play Talbot/Read out of position. I think Laughton makes Couturier *somewhat* expendable, along with the emergence of B. Schenn who I think is better than S.C. and Giroux who, obviously, is superior.


I just thought Bozak fit nicely because then the Leafs would have Couturier, Grabovski, Kadri as their top 9C, and just that Bozak would step in to replace S.C. this year.


Maybe Leafs throw in a 2nd round pick instead of the 4th?


Gardiner+Bozak+Conditional 3rd 2013 (If the leafs make the playoffs it turns into a 2nd?)
FOR
Couturier+Conditional 4th 2014 (2nd if Bozak resigns)


How does that sound?
Both Talbot and Read are natural centers. Read has been played at wing, and given the direction this season is taking, I'm not particularly worried about getting a stop-gap.

Basically, the reaction that you will get will depend on how people feel about Gardiner. In a lot of ways, his early development isn't dissimilar from a young Matt Carle, right? There aren't a lot of guys here who would trade Couturier for Carle.

I personally don't feel like I've seen enough of Gardiner to make that call, but if he projects as a Carle-like player, then the plus would have to be more valuable than Bozak and a mid-round pick for me to get excited about moving him.

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03-15-2013, 04:11 PM
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Hoover View Post
I personally think Kulemin is too much to give up. Bozak would be a solid stop-gap for now so you wouldn't have to play Talbot/Read out of position. I think Laughton makes Couturier *somewhat* expendable, along with the emergence of B. Schenn who I think is better than S.C. and Giroux who, obviously, is superior.


I just thought Bozak fit nicely because then the Leafs would have Couturier, Grabovski, Kadri as their top 9C, and just that Bozak would step in to replace S.C. this year.


Maybe Leafs throw in a 2nd round pick instead of the 4th?


Gardiner+Bozak+Conditional 3rd 2013 (If the leafs make the playoffs it turns into a 2nd?)
FOR
Couturier+Conditional 4th 2014 (2nd if Bozak resigns)


How does that sound?
It still doesn't work. You said it yourself, Bozak would be a "stopgap" who is an RFA after this season. What's the point in a "stopgap" for a team that's near the bottom of the league / has no chance of making the playoffs? I'd rather play a guy out of position and hopefully have him struggle to help us get a better draft pick then take Bozak back in a trade.

It just doesn't make any sense. Plus if we re-sign Bozak and you make the playoffs, you basically get to upgrade your late 2nd into a mid-early 2nd? What's up with that? It's even worse that if you miss the playoffs, you upgrade your 3rd round pick to a 2nd round pick.

This doesn't work for the Flyers.

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03-15-2013, 04:15 PM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack de la Hoya View Post
Both Talbot and Read are natural centers. Read has been played at wing, and given the direction this season is taking, I'm not particularly worried about getting a stop-gap.

Basically, the reaction that you will get will depend on how people feel about Gardiner. In a lot of ways, his early development isn't dissimilar from a young Matt Carle, right? There aren't a lot of guys here who would trade Couturier for Carle.

I personally don't feel like I've seen enough of Gardiner to make that call, but if he projects as a Carle-like player, then the plus would have to be more valuable than Bozak and a mid-round pick for me to get excited about moving him.

When you watch Gardiner play, you'll see what the Leafs fans see. He's a far smarter player than Carlyle, and more reliable defensively. As the season went on, and he gained confidence, he was unbelievably good. His biggest issue was physical play and defensieve play.

What Dallas Eakins has been doing to him in the minors though is playing him 35+ minutes a game, in all situations. Eakins develops players areas of weaknesses, I would trust him with any player (See Kadri and his defensieve play today). Gardiner is on pace for around 60 points in the AHL but being told to focus on his D.

I truly think Gardiner will turn out to be a 45-55 point, #2D who can move the puck very well but isn't a pure OFD like Liles...more along the lines of a Brian Campbell.

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Old
03-15-2013, 04:15 PM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Hoover View Post
Leafs Fan here,

Was wondering what Flyers fans would think of a deal surrounding these two young studs.

Couturier+Conditional 3rd 2014 (turns into a 2nd 2014 if you re-sign Bozak)

For

Gardiner+Bozak+4th 2013

Would something like this work for your team? Still not sure about Couturier's offensieve potential. I think offensively the leafs would be downgrading, but upgrading on D.


I truly think Gardiner is a special player who will end up being a good #2, don't think he has the all around game to be a #1 but he is solid on D but an OFD.

Thoughts?
Laughton doesn't really make Couturier expendable. I don't want to imagine the overall defensive play without Couturier, and Laughton isn't at that level yet; he will likely never be at Couturier's level. I actually think Laughton is getting overvalued a bit so far, I've seen him thrown into trades he probably doesn't have business being involved in.

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03-15-2013, 04:18 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Laughton doesn't really make Couturier expendable. I don't want to imagine the overall defensive play without Couturier, and Laughton isn't at that level yet; he will likely never be at Couturier's level. I actually think Laughton is getting overvalued a bit so far, I've seen him thrown into trades he probably doesn't have business being involved in.
Bozak is strong defensively, and among the best on faceoffs. Of course, he's not Couturier defensively, but he will provide more immediate offence and is very good at cycling.

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Old
03-15-2013, 04:25 PM
  #81
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Bozak is strong defensively, and among the best on faceoffs. Of course, he's not Couturier defensively, but he will provide more immediate offence and is very good at cycling.
My personal stance on Couturier is that he's as untouchable as Giroux was as a young player. Unless we're getting something fantastic in return, I'd be loathe to move him. Like Giroux, it's been clear from the start that he's a special player. I wouldn't move him as well as our likely high picks for Gardiner/Bozak. Though it is tempting, but I don't know those players well enough. Edit: Ah, just saw you said 2014 picks. Thought it was 2013

That's just me though.

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Old
03-15-2013, 04:27 PM
  #82
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No, I would not trade Couts for Gardiner+

I would trade Laughton+ for Gardiner though. Perhaps Laughton + 2nd would be enough.

Edit: If the Leafs want Coburn, I would trade Coburn for Gardiner+ as well.

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Old
03-15-2013, 04:31 PM
  #83
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I would trade Laughton+ for Gardiner though. Perhaps Laughton + 2nd would be enough.
There's no way that Toronto does that, even if it is our 2013 2nd. Between Bozak, Grabovski, and Colborne, they seem pretty well stocked in 2/3C types, with Kadri the obvious wildcard.

I can see what they would want Couturier because he at least arguably has 1C-type potential. Laughton? I don't see the point.

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Old
03-15-2013, 04:34 PM
  #84
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Then, there is no trade to be made here, at least on HFboards. Gardiner isn't a young #1 d-man or potential #1 d-man IMO. I think he will be a good #2 or elite #3, but not a #1. I would only trade Couts for a player with potential to be a #1D.

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Old
03-15-2013, 04:41 PM
  #85
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Scott Laughton, Shayne Gostisbehere, 2nd in 2013 for Jake Gardiner.

Two way 2nd line C prospect, potential top 4 OFD prospect and a high 2nd in a strong draft.

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Old
03-15-2013, 04:42 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
He was at the prospect camp and considered to be the top college UFA goalie. He is 24-4-5 this year for Quinnipiac with a 1.49 GAA and .936 sv%. Not just riding a hot year either as he has had similar numbers the past 3 seasons.

From what I read, makes those game saving saves. Saw him at the prospect camp and as we made a joke about his name (close to Hartnell) he was easily the best goalie there.

Here he made a 3 on 0 save.
When did Nebraska become the hotbed for goaltenders?

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Old
03-15-2013, 05:04 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Jack de la Hoya View Post
There's no way that Toronto does that, even if it is our 2013 2nd. Between Bozak, Grabovski, and Colborne, they seem pretty well stocked in 2/3C types, with Kadri the obvious wildcard.

I can see what they would want Couturier because he at least arguably has 1C-type potential. Laughton? I don't see the point.
Yes this is exactly it. I separate my centers into tiers. 1a, 1b.

1a: Getzlaf, Crosby, Thornton, Toews, Stamkos, E. Staal, Tavares, Duchene, Datsyuk, Giroux, Zetterberg, Sedin, Malkin, Kopitar, Backstrom

1b: Kesler, Backes, J. Staal, Stephan, Bergeron, Lecavilier, Krejci, Koivu, M. Richards, B. Richards, Carter, Couture, Ribiero

I'm sure I'm forgetting some people, and some that you could dispute, but anyways, I project both Couturier & Kadri to fit that 1b mold.

I don't think you can win a cup without either a 1a C, or two 1b's. A Kadri - Couturier 1-2 punch down the middle would be nice and be pretty similar to Krejic-Bergeron I think.

Would you be more inclined to move B. Schenn? I just assumed that B. Schenn can also fit that 1b mold, and Giroux is a 1a.

Giroux
B. Schenn
Laughton

I just thought that would make a lot of sense for your future and to trade Couturier for a player who fills a need, is also young, and has similar potential to him.

EDIT: As a poster mentioned earlier, Leafs aren't interested in a player like Laughton. I think he'll be a good player, but I don't see him being a top line guy. With Grabovski, Bozak, Colborne, McClement I don't see a fit for a guy like Laughton in our team if we're giving up Gardiner.

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Old
03-15-2013, 05:10 PM
  #88
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I'd be more inclined to move B. Schenn, but I still don't do it because having brothers on the same team is kind of nifty. No, that's not rational, but it is what it is.

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Old
03-15-2013, 05:13 PM
  #89
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I think opinion is split on whether something around Couturier for Gardiner+ would be ok.

I'm one of the people who wouldn't necessarily mind a Couturier for Gardiner trade, but there needs to be something of significance added to Gardiner. They're at similar places in their development right now but Couturier has the higher upside, was the higher pick, was called a steal by many people, and is 2.5 years younger. Couturier is also not in the minors right now: Gardiner is, and regardless of how you try to spin it, a coach is not going to leave a player in the minors when he's in the midst of a playoff hunt if he thinks that player can help the team right now. Clearly your coach thinks he needs a little more seasoning.

And the + that needs to be added is something like Kulemin IMO... certainly not Bozak and a swap of 2nds or 3rds or 4ths.

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03-15-2013, 05:16 PM
  #90
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Would Toronto want Briere? They are on the cusp of the playoffs and with 4 straight losses that could slip away. Couturier isnt going to help Toronto much this year with his offensive struggles. The Flyers wont trade Couturier unless its a high potential player on D.

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Old
03-15-2013, 05:21 PM
  #91
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Would Toronto want Briere? They are on the cusp of the playoffs and with 4 straight losses that could slip away. Couturier isnt going to help Toronto much this year with his offensive struggles. The Flyers wont trade Couturier unless its a high potential player on D.
I don't know whether they would or not, but surely not for Gardiner. Briere doesn't have anywhere near that kind of value.

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Old
03-15-2013, 05:25 PM
  #92
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Most I'd be expecting for Briere is a 1st from a team looking to make a deep playoff push.

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03-15-2013, 05:26 PM
  #93
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Schenn + Schenn for Gardiner + JVR

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Old
03-15-2013, 05:26 PM
  #94
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Adam Hall put on waivers by Tampa bay. Would be the 4th line centre we need.

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03-15-2013, 05:30 PM
  #95
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Seriously, I hope the Flyers pick up Hall.

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Old
03-15-2013, 05:38 PM
  #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
My personal stance on Couturier is that he's as untouchable as Giroux was as a young player. Unless we're getting something fantastic in return, I'd be loathe to move him. Like Giroux, it's been clear from the start that he's a special player. I wouldn't move him as well as our likely high picks for Gardiner/Bozak. Though it is tempting, but I don't know those players well enough. Edit: Ah, just saw you said 2014 picks. Thought it was 2013

That's just me though.
My fear with Couturier is that he'll become to us what Staal was to Pittsburgh - a third line center who really should be a 2nd line center. I'm afraid that fans will get tired of his lack of production, and then he'll become the scapegoat and railroaded out of town.

I'd love to keep him, but his trade value will decrease as his production stands still. Unless the team is happy with him being our 3rd line center forever, they ought to trade him while his value is still decent.

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Old
03-15-2013, 05:39 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by jabba2 View Post
Would Toronto want Briere? They are on the cusp of the playoffs and with 4 straight losses that could slip away. Couturier isnt going to help Toronto much this year with his offensive struggles. The Flyers wont trade Couturier unless its a high potential player on D.
I don't think so. Briere isn't a great player anymore and has years left. Also believe he loves it in Philly, can't see him waiving. Also, no chance Gardiner is moved for him.

I see a lot of Flyers fans saying they don't think Couturier will be moved unless it's for a potential top pairing D. I truly think that's what you're getting with Gardiner. He's a phenomenal talent and will be either an elite #3, or a good #2 D IMO. Think Yandle with better D.

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Old
03-15-2013, 05:42 PM
  #98
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As far as I'm
Concerned. Coots is off limits, unless its for a #1 d man who is proven in the league.

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Old
03-15-2013, 05:57 PM
  #99
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Timmy P was just on CSN, he said we should trade our 1st round pick for this draft this summer for a star defensemen like Ryan Whitney or OEL.

How does this guy have a job covering hockey?

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Old
03-15-2013, 05:58 PM
  #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Hoover View Post

I see a lot of Flyers fans saying they don't think Couturier will be moved unless it's for a potential top pairing D. I truly think that's what you're getting with Gardiner. He's a phenomenal talent and will be either an elite #3, or a good #2 D IMO. Think Yandle with better D.
The Flyers' problem is that we have an abundance of good #2/#3 Dmen, and no #1. it doesn't help us much to trade Couturier for more of those.

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