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Old
03-15-2013, 01:54 PM
  #176
Henkka
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Originally Posted by r7carlson24 View Post
I guess my point is I don't think a lot of the older guys like Cleary, Bert, Sammy will get much in return. But if that's what the price on Weight was maybe I'm wrong. I do think Cleary has a no movement clause though which is an issue.
Cleary had NTC until the 2012 deadline. Not anymore.

I don't think any trades with Detroit will happen before the deadline. Many teams are playing just this "waiver-game" and don't want to pay anything for anybody. But at the deadline, we could get some pick for Cleary.

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03-15-2013, 02:01 PM
  #177
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Originally Posted by The Fading Captain View Post
So trade your Clearys and Abdelkaders for 6th and 7th rounders
Done!

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Old
03-15-2013, 02:02 PM
  #178
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Originally Posted by Guru Meditation View Post
Who can blame him? I don't think I can. He isn't being allowed to play much of a skill game here. At this point, Russia is more his style than Detroit is. He can grind it out in Detroit and retire at 36 or go back to Russia and retire at 40.
I agree with you 100% Cleary and Abdelkader are a step down skill wise even of guys on the 4th unit in the KHL. You could feel the frustration after he makes a great pass and the play goes nowhere because one of those guys fumbles/fans/turns it over. Good Lord, Abdelkador only managed to get 1 goal (empty netter at that!) in all that time on the first unit!

Its sad, Datsyuk is the last of the Russian legend in Detroit. The Russians came in 91 (I believe Fedorov came that year) and there has since been a Russian star (at least 1) since. The cupboard has not been refilled it looks like the line of greatness will end after Datsyuk leaves.... The end of a 22 year old tradition in Detroit...

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Old
03-15-2013, 02:08 PM
  #179
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Originally Posted by malkinfan View Post
I agree with you 100% Cleary and Abdelkader are a step down skill wise even of guys on the 4th unit in the KHL. You could feel the frustration after he makes a great pass and the play goes nowhere because one of those guys fumbles/fans/turns it over. Good Lord, Abdelkador only managed to get 1 goal (empty netter at that!) in all that time on the first unit!
It's pretty obivous that it's easier for Abdelkader to produce at bottom6 than at top6. Weaker quality of competition. We know that now and it still doesn't make him a bad bottom6 player.

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Its sad, Datsyuk is the last of the Russian legend in Detroit. The Russians came in 91 (I believe Fedorov came that year) and there has since been a Russian star (at least 1) since. The cupboard has not been refilled it looks like the line of greatness will end after Datsyuk leaves.... The end of a 22 year old tradition in Detroit...
Maybe Marchenko will keep this tradition alive.

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Old
03-15-2013, 05:34 PM
  #180
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Some people are unreal.

He has every right to go home and play in Russia when he's a FREE AGENT if he wants to. Why people wanna vilify the guy and say it's gonna change how people feel about him and that his number should never hang from the rafters is ****ing asinine.

He owes us nothing.

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Old
03-15-2013, 05:36 PM
  #181
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Originally Posted by RichterBromont View Post
Some people are unreal.

He has every right to go home and play in Russia when he's a FREE AGENT if he wants to. Why people wanna vilify the guy and say it's gonna change how people feel about him and that his number should never hang from the rafters is ****ing asinine.

He owes us nothing.
Who is vilifying him? Give us a name. I haven't seen it.

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Old
03-15-2013, 05:38 PM
  #182
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Meh. Until there's someone credible giving the report it means nothing. Every Russian star said they wanted to keep playing in the KHL during the lockout. If Hollland offers Datsyuk a 2 year 14m deal, he'll stay I bet.
Will 14m do it?

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Old
03-15-2013, 05:44 PM
  #183
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I've seen a couple of interviews with Pavs and he seems like a really nice guy. The one where he was talking about his mother and father and how much he missed Russia and how difficult it was for him here without speaking good english. I wish him the best in whatever he chooses. He's given us a lot of thrills and we all should be thankful he wears the winged wheel.

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Old
03-15-2013, 05:45 PM
  #184
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Originally Posted by Henkka View Post
Those later rounds are not crapshoot if you have meny of them. Then you have better possibility to have "crap" that hits the home-run.

Every pick makes our probability better to find the next Datsyuk there with some pick. Why is this so hard to undestand, pretty obvious thing? Of course it's not that exact pick from that trade we could get a decent player, but the bigger amount of picks we have, the better the possibility.
Your first line is pretty much the definition of a crapshoot. You want as many later round picks as possible to improve your chances at getting at least one player out of the bunch who turns out to be good or even a home run over the rest who end up being... wait for it... crap.

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Old
03-15-2013, 06:45 PM
  #185
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I'm telling you. Get Illitch to buy some Russians and transplant them next to Datsyuk. Open a few Russian restaurants near him. Not like he's hurting for money.

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Old
03-15-2013, 07:31 PM
  #186
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Espo's stock was WAYYYYYY down by then.

The Thrashers gave up the superstar in the deal.
Then they gave up Pascal Dupuis...who scored 24 goals last year and has been a good depth player for the Penguins.

In return, the Thrashers got Colby Armstrong (1G 2A last year)
Erik Christensen (scrub)
Esposito (never played an NHL game)

Pascal Dupuis has scored 62 goals since the trade.
More than Christensen. More than Esposito. More than Armstrong.
Looks like they drafted Daulton Leveille with their draft pick (O games played)

For Kovalchuk and Salmela

The Thrashers received

Bergfors -- in the KHL for two years now.
Cormier - Still young, but far from bluechip.
Johnny Oduya - Decent depth defenseman,
First round pick - packaged for Byfuglien

So spare me the talk about how we're going to get rich.

Even if we got a good prospect, we could bury him in the AHL until he's 24 and ruin him.

In strict asset management terms, if you can get a PROVEN youngster with some kind of track record, then you can make that argument.

But in terms of fan management, you don't trade a Datsyuk
There is a reason the Thrashers don't exist anymore, I hope our scouts and staff can pick better players if this comes to that.

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Old
03-29-2013, 01:14 PM
  #187
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Holland on Pavs

Quote:
"Obviously, I've heard the rumors," Holland told NHL.com. "I have not had any real conversation with [Datsyuk] or his agent, Gary Greenstein. Gary lives in California and I just saw him the other day. Basically we're going to sit down at the conclusion of this season, before Pav goes home. I don't know what will come out of it."

Red Wings fans are hoping a new contract is generated, and Holland also hopes that's the case. He just doesn't know if it's likely to happen at the moment.

"We'll talk before he goes home sometime in June, but anything beyond that is speculation and rumors," Holland said. "Nobody's told me anything. They haven't told me they're staying or going. I haven't asked either. We hope he wants to stay, but I'm certainly aware there's a professional league in Russia and they pay their players well. Beyond that, I don't know."
http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=662748

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Old
03-29-2013, 01:23 PM
  #188
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Why would he not ask? Does Holland have a surprise fetish?

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Old
03-29-2013, 01:55 PM
  #189
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Originally Posted by Syckle78 View Post
Why would he not ask? Does Holland have a surprise fetish?
Probably because his gut-feeling is datsyuk will go back to Russia and he doesn't want to hear it from him personally until the summer...Delay the bad news

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Old
03-29-2013, 02:04 PM
  #190
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Originally Posted by mindfly View Post
Probably because his gut-feeling is datsyuk will go back to Russia and he doesn't want to hear it from him personally until the summer...Delay the bad news
Kinda sorta would be a good idea to know what your best player is planning to do. Holland seems to be morphing into feaster.

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Old
03-29-2013, 06:30 PM
  #191
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You can't make an extension before next summer with current NHL contract rules, so why discuss about it before next summer? You respect the current contract and that's about it.

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Old
03-29-2013, 07:40 PM
  #192
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It's not a good idea to ask for an answer before you think the other person has made one or is sure they're even leaning in a particular direction. I know everyone wants certainty, but if you force an answer (or try to help push for an answer) that answer is generally no.

Holland's doing the right thing here. He know Dats' heart is in Russia where his daughter lives and he doesn't want to force him to think about it. Rather, when he has his ducks in a row and can offer something substantive he'll apply pressure.

The one thing Holland has been good at is convincing people to stay when he's got the money to keep them. You guys can't take that away from him. And if Dats just has to leave... then he has to. That's not on Holland.

Holland's playing this right.

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Old
03-29-2013, 07:45 PM
  #193
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won't believe it until I see it. can't remember how many times I heard Lidstrom was returning to Sweden next season. Kinda wish I had a dollar for every time I heard that.

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Old
03-29-2013, 07:45 PM
  #194
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Its not about asking for a concrete answer or working on an extension. If your star player is rumored to want to leave in a year you would think talking to him about it would make sense.

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Old
03-29-2013, 07:54 PM
  #195
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Originally Posted by Fedorov View Post
won't believe it until I see it. can't remember how many times I heard Lidstrom was returning to Sweden next season. Kinda wish I had a dollar for every time I heard that.
I'm with you on waiting, but the circumstances are different for Dats then they were for Nick. Nick had his family with him Pavel does not.

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Old
03-29-2013, 08:12 PM
  #196
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Syckle78 View Post
Its not about asking for a concrete answer or working on an extension. If your star player is rumored to want to leave in a year you would think talking to him about it would make sense.
I'm sure Holland puts out feelers... and the agent says he's not sure, but he's leaning that way (which would be his job, to help get a bigger deal) and then Holland drops it.

I think we're past the idea that no one can make more than the captain here. It's the new NHL. And Z would probably be fine with Dats making more than him just to keep him around. It's kinda how a captain of the Wings should think. Is it fair that Dats should make less than him just because he speak better English, really?

I think Dats will be offered a 1 or 2 year deal and it will be more than Z makes and it will be fair. After that it's up to Dats.

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Old
03-29-2013, 08:30 PM
  #197
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Syckle78 View Post
Its not about asking for a concrete answer or working on an extension. If your star player is rumored to want to leave in a year you would think talking to him about it would make sense.
He said he would wait until the end of the year to discuss it. Why would you just bring it up in the middle of the season when he is trying to focus on the season ? This happens with majority of athletes, they want to wait until the season is finished to discuss an extension.

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Old
03-29-2013, 08:33 PM
  #198
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Syckle78 View Post
Its not about asking for a concrete answer or working on an extension. If your star player is rumored to want to leave in a year you would think talking to him about it would make sense.
Is it really worth talking about it, and all of the potential distractions it could bring, in the middle of the season? Datsyuk is going to be here next year, and talking about it in June doesn't really change anything from talking about it now. It's not like Holland's going to deal him for picks, or turn down a big deal that would improve the team just because that conversation hasn't been had.

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Old
03-29-2013, 08:41 PM
  #199
Syckle78
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I get what you guys are saying. Just sounded odd at first glance saying yea hes aware of the rumors but didnt discuss it with him. Thinking about it though any other answer would of opened him up to more questions and speculation.

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Old
03-29-2013, 09:29 PM
  #200
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I'm with you on waiting, but the circumstances are different for Dats then they were for Nick. Nick had his family with him Pavel does not.
You know I don't know much about Pavel's family situation. Why does his family not live in Michigan? Is he divorced or did they just choose to stay in Russia?

In watching how the wings stars are treated by the Illich family it doesn't appear to be a bad deal to come here and be part of that

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