HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > The History of Hockey
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
The History of Hockey Relive great moments in hockey history and discuss how the game has changed over time.

Which franchise has had best luck in the draft all-time

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-13-2013, 07:28 PM
  #1
Section32
Registered User
 
Section32's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: CT
Country: United States
Posts: 566
vCash: 500
Which franchise has had best luck in the draft all-time

Looking back on the NHL draft since it was first held in '63, which team has benefitted from downright luck the most? Sure, some of it is having the opportunity to draft high, but so many picks don't pan out.

Maybe someone with knowledge on the subject could help out here, but I believe for many years, teams were given an initial opportunity to sign/draft players from within a certain geographical area (150 miles?) of the home rink- thus hurting Boston and NY for some time...though this may be completely wrong.

Nevertheless, I would think Montreal, Oilers and Pens...maybe the Isles.

As The Great One wasn't a draft pick, Edm. slips a bit.

The Isles had one of the great teams ever in the 80's and should have repeated that if you look at who they actually picked in later years but traded away. So many guys actually lived up to billing it is almost sad that they couldn't get their act together- (Mr. Milbury please stand up and take a bow...)

Montreal is the question for me. I know they had amazing teams in the early days of the draft- as did the Leafs in the early 60's- just not sure if that was luck or just that the Habs were who they were.

The Pens seem to collapse at just the right time when generational talent is available. And reading the posts about Jagr remind me of how lucky they were to have him and Mario play together..much like Crosby and Malkin...

So Pens for me...am I right?

Section32 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-13-2013, 07:34 PM
  #2
PeterForsberg
Registered User
 
PeterForsberg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Laval, QC
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,359
vCash: 500
Red Wings.

Datsyuk: 6th round (171st overall)
Zetterberg: 7th round (210th overall)
Lidstrom: 3rd round (53rd overall)
Fedorov: 4th round (74th overall)
Osgood: 3rd round (54th overall)
Kostantinov: 11th round (221st overall)

PeterForsberg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-13-2013, 07:35 PM
  #3
Crosbyfan
Registered User
 
Crosbyfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 7,735
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterForsberg View Post
Red Wings.

Datsyuk: 6th round (171st overall)
Zetterberg: 7th round (210th overall)
Lidstrom: 3rd round (53rd overall)
Fedorov: 4th round (74th overall)
Osgood: 3rd round (54th overall)
Kostantinov: 11th round (221st overall)
Strong European Scouting trumps luck.

Crosbyfan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-13-2013, 11:08 PM
  #4
pdd
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 5,576
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterForsberg View Post
Osgood: 3rd round (54th overall)
62.4% of the wins awarded to any goaltender from the 1991 entry draft were to Chris Osgood.

The only luck involved is that the Oilers took Andrew Verner at 34th and the Isles took Jamie McLennan 48th as the 1st and 2nd goalies.

Remember, before Ken Holland was a scout he was a goaltender. And Holland was the Wings' chief scout in 1991.

pdd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2013, 09:52 AM
  #6
66871
Registered User
 
66871's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Maine
Country: United States
Posts: 1,706
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by cursednumber6 View Post
Pens without question.....Montreal's getting the two best players in the province as a birthright was a fact of life. Getting Crosby coming out of a lockout was.....lucky to say the least. Then they stunk, seemingly unaccountably and gotJagr sixth in the draft.....Nice job getting a close to generational player sixth but still pretty lucky.
I agree it's the Pens but your accounting of how they got Jagr is a bit over the top, IMO.

They missed out on the playoffs on the last day of the season so I don't know if you could say they stunk (though in a 21 team league I guess it's up for debate). And Mario missed 21 games that year and still had a hand in over 30% of their goals. So it's not really a great mystery as to why they fell off from the previous year.

66871 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2013, 09:58 AM
  #7
patnyrnyg
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 4,897
vCash: 500
I would have to agree on the Pens. Malkin, Lemieux, winning the lottery for Crosby. To a lesser extent Jagr. They got the 5th pick after losing in OT to buffalo on the last game of the season. That gave the Isles the last play-off spot and the Isles and Pens swapped draft spots. However, because of the political climate, the Islanders might not have drafted Jagr with the 5th spot

patnyrnyg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2013, 10:00 AM
  #8
patnyrnyg
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 4,897
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by cursednumber6 View Post
P.Montreal's getting the two best players in the province as a birthright was a fact of life.
I'll still never understand why the rest of the league allowed the territorial rights or how they were allowed to buy teams and leagues in order to get the rights to specific players.

patnyrnyg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2013, 10:06 AM
  #9
patnyrnyg
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 4,897
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Section32 View Post
L
Maybe someone with knowledge on the subject could help out here, but I believe for many years, teams were given an initial opportunity to sign/draft players from within a certain geographical area (150 miles?) of the home rink- thus hurting Boston and NY for some time...though this may be completely wrong.

Montreal is the question for me. I know they had amazing teams in the early days of the draft- as did the Leafs in the early 60's- just not sure if that was luck or just that the Habs were who they were.
Territorial rights. During the Original 6 Days, Rangers only won 3 Cups, same for the Blackhawks and Bruins. Detroit won 7.

The first REAL draft didn't happen until 1969. From 63-68 it was for players whose rights were not already owned.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NHL_Entry_Draft

patnyrnyg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2013, 01:28 PM
  #10
pdd
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 5,576
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by patnyrnyg View Post
Territorial rights. During the Original 6 Days, Rangers only won 3 Cups, same for the Blackhawks and Bruins. Detroit won 7.

The first REAL draft didn't happen until 1969. From 63-68 it was for players whose rights were not already owned.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NHL_Entry_Draft
It's a myth that territorial rights were the key to Detroit's Stanley Cup success.

Gordie Howe was from Saskatchewan, and Detroit was not his first NHL tryout.

Red Kelly was from just outside Hamilton.

Terry Sawchuk was from Winnipeg.

Ted Lindsay was from just outside Ottawa.

Marcel Pronovost was from Lac--la-Tortue, Quebec.

Not very territorial for a core.

pdd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2013, 02:57 PM
  #11
jigglysquishy
Registered User
 
jigglysquishy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Regina, Saskatchewan
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,480
vCash: 500
Oilers had the best 3 year stretch by my reckoning

1979
Kevin Lowe
Mark Messier - HoFer
Glen Anderson - HoFer

1980
Paul Coffey - HoFer
Jari Kurri - HoFer
Walt Poddubny

1981
Andy Moog

1982
Grant Fuhr - HoFer

That combo of 1979 and 1980 is probably the best two year punch in NHL history. 4 HoFers. Just amazing. What's even more impressive is only two of them came in the first round (Lowe and Coffey). Messier was in the 3rd. Kurri and Anderson were 4th rounders.

jigglysquishy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2013, 03:54 PM
  #12
patnyrnyg
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 4,897
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
It's a myth that territorial rights were the key to Detroit's Stanley Cup success.

Gordie Howe was from Saskatchewan, and Detroit was not his first NHL tryout.

Red Kelly was from just outside Hamilton.

Terry Sawchuk was from Winnipeg.

Ted Lindsay was from just outside Ottawa.

Marcel Pronovost was from Lac--la-Tortue, Quebec.

Not very territorial for a core.
Not attributing Detroit's success to territorial rights. But for Toronto and Montreal, definitely.

patnyrnyg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2013, 04:05 PM
  #13
Playerwinner
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 792
vCash: 50
Hard to argue with Lemieux, Jagr, Crosby, and Malkin.

Playerwinner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2013, 04:39 PM
  #14
Lshap
Moderator
 
Lshap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,457
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by cursednumber6 View Post
....Montreal's getting the two best players in the province as a birthright was a fact of life.
No. This is a myth.

Bruins signed Bobby Orr out of a small Ontario town when he was...what... 12? Any team could sign anyone. You just had to find them. Pre-draft Quebec produced Jean Ratelle, Marcel Dionne, Rod Gilbert, Marcel Pronovost, Bernie Parent, etc, etc, etc. All were signed by other teams.

I'm surprised people still believe that fairy-tale about Montreal and french players.

Lshap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2013, 10:27 PM
  #15
DisgruntledGoat
Registered User
 
DisgruntledGoat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,216
vCash: 500
If the criteria is luck in the draft, I have hard time not voting for the Oilers. Yes, they got gifted one Wayne Gretzky but then they essentially put every other building block in place around him via the draft.

The Islanders, as ridiculous as their drafting was, still had to pick up Billy Smith on a claim from L.A and trade for Butch Goring and Bob Bourne.

The Oilers had some creepy luck in putting the perfect pieces around Gretzky. I mean, think about it, you have a slightly-built offensive dynamo; now what do you want?

1979
Reliable stay-at home defenseman? Check. (Lowe)
Big, physical, two-way center? Check. (Messier)
Scoring winger with clutch play? Check. (Anderson)

1980
Best offensive defenseman since Orr? Check. (Coffey)
Perfect blend of defense and offense to ride shotgun? Check. (Kurri)

1981
Hall of Fame goalie? Check. (Fuhr)

Toss in the fact that throughout the early to mid-80s, they consistenly bolstered their depth with players like Andy Moog, Steve Smith, Esa Tikkanen and Jeff Beaukeboom. . . that's pretty remarkable. Heck, they drafted arguably the second-best player to come through the NHL draft system 48th overall.

Sometimes I wonder if somebody made a deal with the devil. Which would explain their drafting from about 1984 on.

DisgruntledGoat is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-14-2013, 10:38 PM
  #16
JetsAlternate
Registered User
 
JetsAlternate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 3,912
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crosbyfan View Post
Strong European Scouting trumps luck.
They wanted to draft Bure too. They just missed him by a hair because they couldn't prove he was eligible in the '88 draft. That might have put them over the top to win a few extra playoff series and maybe a couple extra Stanley Cups.


Last edited by JetsAlternate: 03-14-2013 at 10:44 PM.
JetsAlternate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2013, 04:24 PM
  #17
Big Phil
Registered User
 
Big Phil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,478
vCash: 500
You have to pick the Pens here although I will say that the Red Wings with all of their late picks are up there too. However, until they got Yzerman in 1983 they had a string of awful teams and awful drafts.

From a top end perspective I'd say the Pens. In 1984 they wanted Lemieux so bad they sort of tanked near the end of the season in order to make sure New Jersey didn't have less points than them. They brought up their minor league goalie and so on and so forth. The difference was they got Lemieux and Jersey got Muller. Ask me if the Pens would do that over again.

So they get the most talented player to ever play the game. Then Jagr slips in the first few picks of the draft which never made sense to me. Then winning the lottery in 2003 to get Fleury, having a big top end draft in 2004 with two elite Russians (Malkin will have the better career IMO) and winning the lottery to get Crosby, who is his generation's best player. Also being lousy the first year and getting Staal that high didn't hurt. So the Pens were bad at the right time.


Another pick for me, the Islanders. What? That's right, just because they are a poorly managed team it doesn't mean they didn't get lucky with the draft. Potvin 1st overall in 1973. Trottier somehow doesn't go until 22nd overall in 1974. Bossy goes 15th in 1977 and teams shy away from him thinking he lack of physicality will hold him back. Then they get Lafontaine in 1983 right after they win 4 Cups (can't remember the trade that made them pick that high).

When all the dust is settled and they start becoming awful again they get lucky in the mid 1990s. Berard holds out from Ottawa and then comes to NYI for Redden. They had two picks in the top 5 in 1997 (Luongo, Brewer) and were in the position to draft either one of Heatley or Gaborik in 2000. Not to mention had the chance to get Spezza in 2001. So yes, they had great luck in the draft but just terrible management and Milbury did quite the number on that franchise.

Good luck doesn't always mean success (eg. Columbus, NYI in later years, Florida)

Big Phil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-15-2013, 11:44 PM
  #18
Bring_Bak_Damphousse
Classless User
 
Bring_Bak_Damphousse's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,300
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by cursednumber6 View Post
Pens without question.....Montreal's getting the two best players in the province as a birthright was a fact of life. Getting Crosby coming out of a lockout was.....lucky to say the least. Then they stunk, seemingly unaccountably and gotJagr sixth in the draft.....Nice job getting a close to generational player sixth but still pretty lucky.

You can keep telling yourself that or you can read this.

http://www.habseyesontheprize.com/20...e-canadiens-fr

My vote also goes to the Penguins

Bring_Bak_Damphousse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-16-2013, 01:22 AM
  #19
kaiser matias
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,980
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by patnyrnyg View Post
Territorial rights. During the Original 6 Days, Rangers only won 3 Cups, same for the Blackhawks and Bruins. Detroit won 7.

The first REAL draft didn't happen until 1969. From 63-68 it was for players whose rights were not already owned.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NHL_Entry_Draft
The Rangers three Cup wins all game before the Original Six era started in 1942.

And like already mentioned, territorial rights had nothing to do with it. It had more to do with scouting and signing players, as well as establishing a farm system.

kaiser matias is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-16-2013, 01:47 AM
  #20
Darth Yoda
Registered User
 
Darth Yoda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Grovebranch's Crease
Country: Sweden
Posts: 2,900
vCash: 500
Yeah it got to be Penguins. We even got the next top ten player of all time on our team right now.

But, we suffered real well to get so lucky.

Darth Yoda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-16-2013, 01:51 AM
  #21
Nalyd Psycho
Registered User
 
Nalyd Psycho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: No Bandwagon
Country: Canada
Posts: 22,890
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Yoda View Post
Yeah it got to be Penguins. We even got the next top ten player of all time on our team right now.

But, we suffered real well to get so lucky.
Pascal Dupius is good, but top 10 all time is a bit of a stretch. And he wasn't even drafted by Pittsburgh.

__________________
Every post comes with the Nalyd Psycho Seal of Approval.
Nalyd Psycho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-16-2013, 09:22 AM
  #22
habsfanatics
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 4,079
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by cursednumber6 View Post
Pens without question.....Montreal's getting the two best players in the province as a birthright was a fact of life. Getting Crosby coming out of a lockout was.....lucky to say the least. Then they stunk, seemingly unaccountably and gotJagr sixth in the draft.....Nice job getting a close to generational player sixth but still pretty lucky.
Except for none of it is true. They only had rights to French players that hadn't yet signed a C-form. Most top players had signed c-forms long before approaching the age to play in the NHL. Bobby Orr signed one at 12 years old.

If you mean Rejean Houle and Marc Tardiff then perhaps you're onto something. It's about time this myth is put to bed forever.

They protected 14 players from 1936-1943 through this special rule. None of them played a single minute in the NHL.

Repeating nonsense doesn't make it true.

habsfanatics is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-16-2013, 11:44 AM
  #23
patnyrnyg
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 4,897
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bring_Bak_Damphousse View Post
You can keep telling yourself that or you can read this.

http://www.habseyesontheprize.com/20...e-canadiens-fr

My vote also goes to the Penguins
wow. thanks for posting this. has just changed what I have thought all along. Had heard about the Beliveau. Never realized Orr was signed as a 12-year old. In Gretzky's autobiography he mentioned rumors were circulating that the Rangers were going to buy the organization in Brantford he played in as a little kid.

patnyrnyg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-16-2013, 11:45 AM
  #24
patnyrnyg
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 4,897
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaiser matias View Post
The Rangers three Cup wins all game before the Original Six era started in 1942.

And like already mentioned, territorial rights had nothing to do with it. It had more to do with scouting and signing players, as well as establishing a farm system.
just read that article. honestly never realized the territorial rights thing wasn't what people have made it out to be.

patnyrnyg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-16-2013, 11:52 AM
  #25
DaveG
Mod Supervisor
How's the thesis?
 
DaveG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Durham NC
Country: United States
Posts: 32,257
vCash: 562
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalyd Psycho View Post
Pascal Dupius is good, but top 10 all time is a bit of a stretch. And he wasn't even drafted by Pittsburgh.
Wait... Dupuis? I was way off.









I thought he was talking about Craig Adams

DaveG is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:01 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.