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Prospect Talk PART VI

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Old
03-15-2013, 12:43 AM
  #451
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chapin Landvogt View Post
Hmmm, really wouldn't be so sure about that bolded part.

Superior?

Bailey is a pretty doggone talented kid. His actual skillset isn't something astute followers of the game question when it comes to analyzing Josh. That he doesn't have more tangible NHL results is an entirely different issue - and not one that isn't very much linked to how the Isles handled him after his having been drafted.

And as far as pre-NHL achievements are concerned, who's to say Bailey wouldn't have done EVERYTHING or more than Strome has had Bailey been allowed to develop normally instead of being force-fed into the NHL as an 18 year old?

Heck, they brought him in right after a 96 point OHL season. It was a year in which, as we now know, he'd have piloted a Memorial Cup winner and likely would have been on a medal-winning Canadian WJC team.

This said, we better hope for our franchise's sake that Strome develops (or is allowed to by NYI management) much more properly than was the case with Bailey. They've definitely handled him differently. This team desperately needs him to take the kind of steps that the Eberles and Seguins of the league have for their teams. When he eventually arrives, it's THAT kind of impact he needs to make here.
I hope Strome doesn't have the same mental makeup as Bailey or we are in trouble. Bailey is a head case much like Bertuzzi...maybe he'll be able to snap out of it but there will always be something wrong with him...

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Old
03-15-2013, 01:54 AM
  #452
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leaponover View Post
I hope Strome doesn't have the same mental makeup as Bailey or we are in trouble. Bailey is a head case much like Bertuzzi...maybe he'll be able to snap out of it but there will always be something wrong with him...
The kid seems to have an excellent head on his shoulders.. I don't get that at all.

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Old
03-15-2013, 05:08 AM
  #453
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Degeneration Rex View Post
Thursday

Barrie 4, Kingston 2-Theoret, even.
Brampton 5, Niagara 2-Graham, -1.
Note-Strome did take the pre game skate.
Graham got a Powerplay assist last night (his wrister was deflected by shipley) Gave Niagra an Early 1-0 lead in the game.

I can't really post the clip since TV Cgeco wasn't really on their game, they almost missed the play entirely and then didn't show a replay.

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03-15-2013, 05:44 AM
  #454
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Originally Posted by InformTheMasses View Post
Graham got a Powerplay assist last night (his wrister was deflected by shipley) Gave Niagra an Early 1-0 lead in the game.

I can't really post the clip since TV Cgeco wasn't really on their game, they almost missed the play entirely and then didn't show a replay.
Yes, I just corrected the post above.

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Old
03-15-2013, 08:11 AM
  #455
Chapin Landvogt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan-o16 View Post
Strome passes like he means it. Bailey slides it to open ice. IMO the only skill Bailey equals Strome in is stick handling. (Bailey's straight-ahead speed is probably better than Strome, but Strome is a much shiftier skater).
Funny you mention that, because I noticed this once in the game in TB last night (where I didn't think Bailey was all that good, BTW). It ended up getting picked off and he was being checked in the instance.

Still, I don't if it's a consequential point of comparison with these two. I mean, it's not like Bailey can't make a hard, crisp pass. They techically all can at this level. But when guys are in movement, often the best thing to do is to put the puck in a spot and at a speed so that your teammate can skate into it while on the move. I'm sure Strome can or will also do this at times too. It's a good hockey play - often the best choice.

Passing also has to do with speed, movement and timing, all of which are different at the junior level.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JPIsles21
There are many people that would argue that drafting a player from SEL or KHL is safer because these prospects develop at a higher level of competition than the Juniors. Also, many of the 17-20 year old kids in these leagues get bottom 6 minutes with very little production, and nobody ever talks about their "development" to be ruined.
Hmmm. Don't most NHLers - like all-time - come out of Canadian juniors. I think there's no argument that it is far and away the top junior circuit on the planet.

I think what you're getting at is that teams often find it best to let their Europicks take the normal steps within their respective mens' pro teams overseas. They'll often grant them that time to develop accordingly and establish themselves as pro players right on their own home turf. Detroit has done this a lot. Ottawa recently did it with Silfverberg. They might have done it longer with Zibanejad, had his pro team not been relegated last spring.

Quote:
However, the way he processes the game has regressed. He just does not look comfortable out there. It seems as though he has no set role and is confused (perhaps overthinking) about what the right play is with and without the puck in the offensive zone.
He's not looking particularly good right now. This could be attributable a bit to the 3-4 week layover due to whatever injury he got in Germany. I'd also say that, even if it's better than sitting at home and watching TV, having played in Germany's second league (approx. ECHL level), wasn't the best decision as it is a CRAP league for a young NHLer to spend his time in. You don't want to get yourself used to the routines in a league like that.

Quote:
... coach's ability to a) know his players inside and out, b) taking that knowledge and placing those players in a situation to succeed. Unfortunately Capuano seems to fail at both tasks.
Well, as several of us have been pouncing on for a while now, why a one Mr. Bailey, who finished last season with 17 points in 19 games as a RW on a line with Grabner-Nielsen, is A) not on the RW side, B) not on a line with Grabner-Nielsen and maybe even C) has never been tried as a RW option with Tavares, has to make one seriously question whether the coaching staff (I'm gonna include Weight in this, as we shouldn't forget that Bailey's progress should be one of Dougie's biggest tasks as the 'offensive, playmaking' mentor here) is truly interested in getting something tangible out of Josh.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kasper11
Funny thing about Bailey, he wasn't a bad pick if you look at who was drafted after him. The next five picks are two players that are clearly better (Hodgson and Myers) and three that look like busts (Beach, Teubert and Boychuck).
Always felt that the one true player Bailey will have to be compared with is not so much who we could have had by not dropping down, but by who we didn't pick who many felt should have gone at 9, namely Hodgson.

I gotta agree with Redbull's assessment on that front. In light of his back problems, I'm happy for him that he's able to play and contribute. Still, to date, Bailey has been the more succussful NHLer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by leaponover
Bailey is a head case much like Bertuzzi...maybe he'll be able to snap out of it but there will always be something wrong with him...
Like Bertuzzi? How do you figure?

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Old
03-15-2013, 02:48 PM
  #456
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chapin Landvogt View Post
Like Bertuzzi? How do you figure?
I think he means the Isles made him a head case like they did with Bertuzzi......if you recall when they brought Clark Gilles to try and turn Bert into Clark Gilles? The kid has not emotionally matured and is still an Islander prospect, I guess was the sentiment.

Personally, I think he has skill, poise, toughness, vision and a good shot but he never shoots, can't use his skill well aside from defense because he has no chemistry with linemates, has to look deep inside for the gritty game or the hustle to make things happen.

I don't worry about Bailey succeeding. He has all the tools and has put them together and, UNLIKE OKPOSO, plays sound hockey when he's slumping.

I worry about the Isles never getting the talent voids filled, instead replacing one drek with another, even if said drek flourishes {PAP replaced by Boyes}.

I wish we had last year's first line and Bailey flanking Boyes and Grabner.

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Old
03-15-2013, 07:11 PM
  #457
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redbull View Post
those coach polls mean a lot. I remember Cizikas did really well in the same poll a few years ago.

Strome is very similar to Bailey in skill set, he had had two full years of junior hockey though.

And like Bailey, he will need
to get stronger and adapt to the speed of play. I hooe he manages to get some NHL games in this year
Strome is absolutely not similar at all in skill set to Josh Bailey. He has exceptional speed and acceleration. Bailey does not. He can operate at full speed, stickhandling on the fly. Bailey doesn't move his feet. And he is a more creative player. No comparison at all

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Old
03-15-2013, 07:13 PM
  #458
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Originally Posted by Paulinho View Post
I get what you're saying & you're right but Strome's skill set is superior to Bailey's and not really all that similar IMO. Strome's skill set is more akin to Martin St. Louis, now if his work ethic is as strong as St Louis then we got ourselves a superstar.
You are exactly right sir. This guy gets it

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Old
03-15-2013, 07:18 PM
  #459
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Originally Posted by LotteryForLife View Post
You are exactly right sir. This guy gets it
LOL, Nice Location

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Old
03-15-2013, 07:19 PM
  #460
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The biggest problems that I've seen with Bailey are that 1) He's a floater and some guys the puck seems to find their stick, with Bailey it's the direct opposite 2) He has difficulty operating on the fly. Seems to stop his feet to make a play 3) Bad hockey sense. He passes when he should shoot far too often and doesn't make great decisions with the puck

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Old
03-15-2013, 07:34 PM
  #461
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Strome is still out of the line-up. Not playing tonight against Sudbury. with only 1 regular season game left and no chance at this point to move up or down in the standings, it's likely he wont play until the playoffs.

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Old
03-15-2013, 07:38 PM
  #462
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Bailey

My 2 cents on Bailey, and I preface this by saying there really isn't any bias in regards to my profile pic.

When you examine what Bailey went through last year:

1) He hit rock bottom by Nov/Dec and was demoted to the 4th line.
2) The media and fans started to forget about him. He was allowed to just get lost in the 4th line. He reinvented his game by getting back to the basics of skating, fore-checking, and good old-fashioned hard work.
3) Matt Martin: Playing with him on the 4th line started giving Bailey a little spark. Together they moved up to the 3rd line for 6-8 weeks and I noticed Bailey starting to emulate Martin by finishing checks and just overall hard work. Martin also started playing better too and I thought there was an unspoken chemistry that formed. In the Tampa Bay game Thursday I saw them on the ice together (perhaps by accident) but Bailey had jump in his step, had a good hit, and made a good play on that shift.
4) His improved work ethic earned him a spot on the PK, and he thrived.
5) He was rewarded with the RW spot with Grabs/Neilsen. He brought that hard work, physical energy with him and finished strong.

What Bailey needs is to get back to that hard working, hard skating, check-finishing style of play.

Give him a little 3rd line time with Martin and Reasoner. I bet his game will be elevated in time for the playoff push, then move him up to 2nd or 1st line. I say 1st line because I'm really not a BOYES fan. He just doesn't do it for me. I'd take Parenteau any day over Boyes.


Last edited by NineHoleGoal: 03-15-2013 at 07:51 PM.
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Old
03-15-2013, 09:11 PM
  #463
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Friday

Brampton 5, Barrie 3-Theoret, 2 assists, + 1.
Sudbury 5, Niagara 1-Graham, 1 assist, even.
Guelph 2, Erie 1 (OT)-Pedan, -1, Pelech, + 1.
Note-Pedan was ejected for kneeing, likely to get suspended again.
Edmonton 3, Red Deer 1-Reinhart, 1 goal (8), 1 assist, + 1.
Spokane 6, Tri City 0-Kichton, 2 assists, + 1.


CCHA Play-offs (Best of 3)
Notre Dame, 1, Bowling Green 0 (OT)-Lee, 1 assist, + 1, Russo, even.
Notre Dame leads series 1-0.

WCHA Play-offs (Best of 3)
Denver 5, Colorado College 3-Mayfield, 2 assists, + 1.
Denver leads series 1-0.


Last edited by Degeneration Rex: 03-16-2013 at 05:51 AM.
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Old
03-15-2013, 09:38 PM
  #464
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Degeneration Rex View Post
Friday

Brampton 5, Barrie 3-Theoret, 2 assists, + 1.
Sudbury 5, Niagara 1-Graham, 1 assist, even.
Guelph 2, Erie 1 (OT)-Pedan, -1, Pelech, + 1.
Note-Pedan was ejected for kneeing, likely to get suspended again.


CCHA Play-offs (Best of 3)
Notre Dame, 1, Bowling Green 0 (OT)-Lee, 1 assist, + 1, Russo, even.
Notre Dame leads series 1-0.

More later
So far Mayfield has 2 assists and is a +1. Denver currently leads Colorado 3-2 mid in the second


Last edited by KrisBeKreame: 03-15-2013 at 09:49 PM.
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Old
03-16-2013, 06:11 AM
  #465
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Degeneration Rex View Post
Friday

Brampton 5, Barrie 3-Theoret, 2 assists, + 1.
Sudbury 5, Niagara 1-Graham, 1 assist, even.
Guelph 2, Erie 1 (OT)-Pedan, -1, Pelech, + 1.
Note-Pedan was ejected for kneeing, likely to get suspended again.
Edmonton 3, Red Deer 1-Reinhart, 1 goal (8), 1 assist, + 1.
Spokane 6, Tri City 0-Kichton, 2 assists, + 1.


CCHA Play-offs (Best of 3)
Notre Dame, 1, Bowling Green 0 (OT)-Lee, 1 assist, + 1, Russo, even.
Notre Dame leads series 1-0.

WCHA Play-offs (Best of 3)
Denver 5, Colorado College 3-Mayfield, 2 assists, + 1.
Denver leads series 1-0.

I'm on the road all day (work). I'll have these clips up tonight or tomorrow the latest. Sorry for the delay.

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Old
03-16-2013, 06:50 AM
  #466
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Originally Posted by Chapin Landvogt View Post
Funny you mention that, because I noticed this once in the game in TB last night (where I didn't think Bailey was all that good, BTW). It ended up getting picked off and he was being checked in the instance.

Still, I don't if it's a consequential point of comparison with these two. I mean, it's not like Bailey can't make a hard, crisp pass. They techically all can at this level. But when guys are in movement, often the best thing to do is to put the puck in a spot and at a speed so that your teammate can skate into it while on the move. I'm sure Strome can or will also do this at times too. It's a good hockey play - often the best choice.
Respectfully, but strongly, I disagree. Maybe in the NHL of the past, but pretty much only in 4 on 4 play in the NHL play does this strategy work with any regularity. There just is not enough room in the neutral zone for open-area passes to work.

The way Bailey plays indicates his lack of confidence and/or hockey sense. Whether you consider this a 'technical' passing ability to some other element of skill or hockey sense doesn't matter to me. Strome does way more with passes. Strome will immediately upon entry to the NHL be a better playmaker than Bailey. Strome will have a hard time winning puck battles, of course, but I think Bailey's shortcomings in this regard are pretty clear if you look. I've paid specific attention to Bailey turning pucks over by passing blindly to 'open' areas for a while now.

Cheers,

Dan-o

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Old
03-16-2013, 08:24 AM
  #467
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan-o16 View Post
Respectfully, but strongly, I disagree. Maybe in the NHL of the past, but pretty much only in 4 on 4 play in the NHL play does this strategy work with any regularity. There just is not enough room in the neutral zone for open-area passes to work.

The way Bailey plays indicates his lack of confidence and/or hockey sense. Whether you consider this a 'technical' passing ability to some other element of skill or hockey sense doesn't matter to me. Strome does way more with passes. Strome will immediately upon entry to the NHL be a better playmaker than Bailey. Strome will have a hard time winning puck battles, of course, but I think Bailey's shortcomings in this regard are pretty clear if you look. I've paid specific attention to Bailey turning pucks over by passing blindly to 'open' areas for a while now.

Cheers,

Dan-o
Tavares has also done this pretty routinely this season. I'm not worried about Bailey. He's IMO one of our top-3 forwards. The kid has so much skill, has pretty high end passing ability and is reliable defensively. Not to mention a pretty underrated shot that he absolutely needs to use more(which is my biggest knock on him). Once the Isles decide to use him correctly(on the RW... hopefully at some point on Tavares' RW) I expect all the Bailey criticism to die pretty quickly.

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03-16-2013, 08:32 AM
  #468
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Originally Posted by NineHoleGoal View Post
My 2 cents on Bailey, and I preface this by saying there really isn't any bias in regards to my profile pic.

When you examine what Bailey went through last year:

1) He hit rock bottom by Nov/Dec and was demoted to the 4th line.
2) The media and fans started to forget about him. He was allowed to just get lost in the 4th line. He reinvented his game by getting back to the basics of skating, fore-checking, and good old-fashioned hard work.
3) Matt Martin: Playing with him on the 4th line started giving Bailey a little spark. Together they moved up to the 3rd line for 6-8 weeks and I noticed Bailey starting to emulate Martin by finishing checks and just overall hard work. Martin also started playing better too and I thought there was an unspoken chemistry that formed. In the Tampa Bay game Thursday I saw them on the ice together (perhaps by accident) but Bailey had jump in his step, had a good hit, and made a good play on that shift.
4) His improved work ethic earned him a spot on the PK, and he thrived.
5) He was rewarded with the RW spot with Grabs/Neilsen. He brought that hard work, physical energy with him and finished strong.

What Bailey needs is to get back to that hard working, hard skating, check-finishing style of play.

Give him a little 3rd line time with Martin and Reasoner. I bet his game will be elevated in time for the playoff push, then move him up to 2nd or 1st line. I say 1st line because I'm really not a BOYES fan. He just doesn't do it for me. I'd take Parenteau any day over Boyes.
I think what Bailey needs is to play with linemates with offensive talent. Not what he has now.

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Old
03-16-2013, 09:08 AM
  #469
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Originally Posted by crashthenet View Post
I think what Bailey needs is to play with linemates with offensive talent. Not what he has now.
Bailey has had enough time to develop, unfortunately time has ran out in my opinion. Sometimes it's best to move on to a different direction with more call-ups. Bailey and Okposo have been huge disappointments. There's nothing wrong with that, sh&% happens but we have to move on. Strome, Nelson, and Nino need to be called up to see if they play with the big boys. Nelson and Nino should be called up now. Reasoner, Aucoin, and Bolton do not fit with this team!

If we really want to make a playoff push we need to make a risk now..

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03-16-2013, 09:30 AM
  #470
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Originally Posted by crashthenet View Post
I think what Bailey needs is to play with linemates with offensive talent. Not what he has now.
The key to Bailey is CONFIDENCE. It's a fragile and fleeting thing with him. When he gets back to skating hard and doing the intangibles correctly it bolsters his confidence and then his offensive game elevates. He's spectating too much out there. I've seen him just stand for a second and watch the play instead of immediately skating after the puck and fore-checking. Or for example, he'll dump the puck in the zone but stop skating instead of chasing after it. Tavares does this but keeps his feet moving to chase the puck down in the corners. Bailey needs to engage, physically. Once he does that the rest of his game will improve.

Speaking of physical engagement, I'm curious to see how Joensuu plays tonight. That's supposed to be the focus of his "reinvented" game.

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03-16-2013, 11:05 AM
  #471
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Can we move all this Bailey talk to another thread? Guy hasn't been a prospect in a half decade.

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Old
03-16-2013, 11:16 AM
  #472
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Any chance Andrey Pedan could make a run on the roster next year?

Also, how's Scott Mayfield doing? According to Denver stats it's seems sub par statistics.

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Old
03-16-2013, 11:23 AM
  #473
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Originally Posted by Snapshotgoal View Post
Any chance Andrey Pedan could make a run on the roster next year?

Also, how's Scott Mayfield doing? According to Denver stats it's seems sub par statistics.
I suspect Pedan will get signed to an ELC and will be spending the next couple of years in Bridgeport. I doubt he's NHL ready, he needs more development despite his enticing tools and skill set.

Mayfield is a sophomore on a strong Denver team. His stats may not look great, but he plays behind some older players that get the majority of offensive opportunities. Denver gets a crazy amount of offensive production from their blue line and it doesn't look as if Mayfield is at the top of the pecking order. It's understandable, he's got to wait his turn and defer to the upperclassmen. Next year should be his big year since he should be getting top pairing minutes, something I don't think he's getting now.

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Old
03-16-2013, 12:12 PM
  #474
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Originally Posted by Degeneration Rex View Post
Friday

Brampton 5, Barrie 3-Theoret, 2 assists, + 1.
Sudbury 5, Niagara 1-Graham, 1 assist, even.
Guelph 2, Erie 1 (OT)-Pedan, -1, Pelech, + 1.
Note-Pedan was ejected for kneeing, likely to get suspended again.
Edmonton 3, Red Deer 1-Reinhart, 1 goal (8), 1 assist, + 1.
Spokane 6, Tri City 0-Kichton, 2 assists, + 1.


CCHA Play-offs (Best of 3)
Notre Dame, 1, Bowling Green 0 (OT)-Lee, 1 assist, + 1, Russo, even.
Notre Dame leads series 1-0.

WCHA Play-offs (Best of 3)
Denver 5, Colorado College 3-Mayfield, 2 assists, + 1.
Denver leads series 1-0.
Got to my destination way ahead of schedule, able to post the stuff from last night:

Anders Lee (causes turnover, earns assist):

Mitchell Theoret 2 Assists vs Brampton:

Andrei Pedan Game Misconduct (kneeing):

Brenden Kichton 2 Assists:

Griffin Reinhart 1G 1A:

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03-16-2013, 12:13 PM
  #475
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I have not seen him play this year, but Mayfield's offensive production seems fine to me. 4 goals and 13 assists in 36 games so far, playing probably on second PP unit. For a big, physical, mobile D it's not bad at all I would say.


Last edited by kuwo: 03-16-2013 at 12:39 PM.
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