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Subban's play since coming back Part 2

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Old
03-15-2013, 10:07 PM
  #201
Kriss E
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
If he's smart, he goes to PK after this year and says... you've earned a raise and then tries to get him at what he asked for a year ahead of schedule plus an extra two million to top up the year he just had.

That just might work.
What I'm hoping happened during these past negotiations was that MB made PK understand that this was just a formality, that by year 2, his salary already goes up to just under 4M.
So basically, he tells him to have a great short season, and they can re-negotiate the deal next summer, no problem. Possibly even get a bigger one than PK wanted..

In any event, I hope the lines of communication were open and that things were more done in a mutual agreement than it was reported in the media.

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03-15-2013, 10:11 PM
  #202
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No doubt the OEL deal means Subban on a LT deal is a 6 M player at the very least, with 6.5 M per being the likely range and if he keeps being a point per game player this season (which I doubt, a bit hard to maintain that type of pace), then you are probably looking at 7 M per to extend him this summer.

OEL gave up only 2 UFA years. If Subban signed for 6 years on this next deal, he'd be giving up 4.

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03-15-2013, 10:13 PM
  #203
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If Subban continues his play at this level, we'd be lucky to get him at Price money by the end of the year.

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03-15-2013, 10:43 PM
  #204
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Originally Posted by E = CH² View Post
You're getting repetitive, it's obvious you have run out of logical arguments. Now, you can keep pulling the infantile "He's the GM and you're not" card, or you can just admit you were wrong and we can all move on. Either way, quit while you're ahead.
What is repetitive is the continued *****ing and whining over Subban signing a two year contract.

Subban is playing HUGE minutes. Subban is scoring goals and points. Subban is improving his game tremendously.

But all I hear is more whining. And the constant put downs of Bergevin for signing Subban to a two year contract. Without any of the whiners being privy to what was discussed during the negotiations and why Subban agreed to sign the contract instead of continuing the holdout.

Its pointless whining about the past. Its done and Subban is doing well and has not been harmed in any way.

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03-15-2013, 11:11 PM
  #205
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
What is repetitive is the continued *****ing and whining over Subban signing a two year contract.

Subban is playing HUGE minutes. Subban is scoring goals and points. Subban is improving his game tremendously.

But all I hear is more whining. And the constant put downs of Bergevin for signing Subban to a two year contract. Without any of the whiners being privy to what was discussed during the negotiations and why Subban agreed to sign the contract instead of continuing the holdout.

Its pointless whining about the past. Its done and Subban is doing well and has not been harmed in any way.
You're the king of platitudes :

-It's not your money why do you care
-Omg you disagree with management so you must be whining
-You're not the GM, I'll trust the GM over you
-Don't live in the past

And many more of your greatest hits that I'm forgetting.

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03-15-2013, 11:23 PM
  #206
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
If he's smart, he goes to PK after this year and says... you've earned a raise and then tries to get him at what he asked for a year ahead of schedule plus an extra two million to top up the year he just had.

That just might work.
that is pretty much the best case scenario at this point...


but from PK's pov, the only reason to accept a deal at anything less than market premium on an extension signed before this contract expires is the risk of injury (or if he really does love playing for Montreal to the point of leaving more money on the table).

Can't see him accepting a deal at what they were rumoured to be asking for (4.5-5.5 range), but if MB comes at him with a mid-term deal (~4years) @ ~6M$, I could see him settling for that.

If they don't get the extension done before that window closes, i'll be worried about what the 2014 stand-off will look like, cuz it will signal that he's looking for top-dollar, and either way MB & the team will come out of it worse off than if we had done the deal that was there in January...

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03-15-2013, 11:43 PM
  #207
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Originally Posted by E = CH² View Post
You're the king of platitudes :

-It's not your money why do you care
-Omg you disagree with management so you must be whining
-You're not the GM, I'll trust the GM over you
-Don't live in the past

And many more of your greatest hits that I'm forgetting.
Seriously, get over it. The past is done with. Your whining accomplishes what?

And your whining coupled with Subban getting more minutes and playing a large role in the Habs doing very well this season is pointless. Childlike almost.

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03-15-2013, 11:55 PM
  #208
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Seriously, get over it. The past is done with. Your whining accomplishes what?

And your whining coupled with Subban getting more minutes and playing a large role in the Habs doing very well this season is pointless. Childlike almost.
What does any post here accomplish?

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03-16-2013, 06:33 AM
  #209
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Originally Posted by NotProkofievian View Post
What does any post here accomplish?
Nihilism, sigh.

People come to this forum because they hope to get a deeper understanding of the game, and because they get satisfaction from discussing their hobby, [[following the Habs.]]

As such, it's obvious which posts accomplish more.

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03-16-2013, 06:42 AM
  #210
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Nihilism, sigh.

People come to this forum because they hope to get a deeper understanding of the game, and because they get satisfaction from discussing their hobby, [[following the Habs.]]

As such, it's obvious which posts accomplish more.
Hey, don't forget they also get an outlet to vent frustration.

Not the most effective use of the forum, but one that many seems to enjoy.

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Old
03-16-2013, 09:26 AM
  #211
Kriss E
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Seriously, get over it. The past is done with. Your whining accomplishes what?

And your whining coupled with Subban getting more minutes and playing a large role in the Habs doing very well this season is pointless. Childlike almost.
Nobody is whining. People are discussing PK's next deal, and claiming the bridge deal was a mistake.
The only reason the bridge deal keeps being brought up is because some people still refuse to admit wrong. If you said that yes, the bridge deal was a mistake, instead of saying stuff like ''I'll give the benefit of the doubt to Bergevin'' or ''He's the the GM, not you'', or ''real money, real responsibilities'', then people would drop it a lot sooner.

You keep making excuses for Bergevin, a rookie GM. The bridge deal was an obvious mistake. That's why so many people were against it right from the start. There was numerous discussions here about it, where some fans went as far as to say ''trade that selfish S.O.B for a bag of pucks''. If I recall correctly you were big on saying that ''PK puts himself before the team''.
In any event, stop trying to defend this deal, it was a wrong one. Admit it, and move on. If you don't want to admit it, then stop defending it and ignore the posts that talk about it.

Calling people whiners will accomplish nothing, I think you should know that by now.

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03-16-2013, 09:31 AM
  #212
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Nobody is whining. People are discussing PK's next deal, and claiming the bridge deal was a mistake.
The only reason the bridge deal keeps being brought up is because some people still refuse to admit wrong. If you said that yes, the bridge deal was a mistake, instead of saying stuff like ''I'll give the benefit of the doubt to Bergevin'' or ''He's the the GM, not you'', or ''real money, real responsibilities'', then people would drop it a lot sooner.

You keep making excuses for Bergevin, a rookie GM. The bridge deal was an obvious mistake. That's why so many people were against it right from the start. There was numerous discussions here about it, where some fans went as far as to say ''trade that selfish S.O.B for a bag of pucks''. If I recall correctly you were big on saying that ''PK puts himself before the team''.
In any event, stop trying to defend this deal, it was a wrong one. Admit it, and move on. If you don't want to admit it, then stop defending it and ignore the posts that talk about it.

Calling people whiners will accomplish nothing, I think you should know that by now.
why would people "admit" as we have no clue what his next contract will look like and we dont know for fact what were the other numbers discussed anyway?

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03-16-2013, 09:34 AM
  #213
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I've been saying for years that Subban was going to be our best player.

So does anyone actually believe that Markov is still better than Subban?

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03-16-2013, 09:35 AM
  #214
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why would people "admit" as we have no clue what his next contract will look like and we dont know for fact what were the other numbers discussed anyway?
Surely they must have an idea, why else would they bash Subban for not signing at 2.875M/year right away.

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I've been saying for years that Subban was going to be our best player.

So does anyone actually believe that Markov is still better than Subban?
Well Markov has clearly lost a step skating wise but there's no need to compare the two. Having two top pairing D is invaluable.

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03-16-2013, 09:37 AM
  #215
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Surely they must have an idea, why else would they bash Subban for not signing at 2.875M/year right away.
an idea? more like there were rumors and they've decided to take them for facts.

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03-16-2013, 09:40 AM
  #216
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I've been saying for years that Subban was going to be our best player.

So does anyone actually believe that Markov is still better than Subban?
Markov still has that calming, veteran experience and brings confidence to the team. That is evident in the Habs record with and without him over the 4 or 5 years. But there is no doubt that Subban is the present and future of the Habs defence and it's great to have Markov back healthy with him.

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03-16-2013, 09:42 AM
  #217
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MB and his lack of vision....bridge contracts are stupid

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03-16-2013, 09:42 AM
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Well Markov has clearly lost a step skating wise but there's no need to compare the two. Having two top pairing D is invaluable.
Agree, now lets hope they get a third one and really complete the defensive core

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03-16-2013, 09:42 AM
  #219
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Originally Posted by Watsatheo View Post
Surely they must have an idea, why else would they bash Subban for not signing at 2.875M/year right away.



Well Markov has clearly lost a step skating wise but there's no need to compare the two. Having two top pairing D is invaluable.
I never said otherwise.

I'm just enjoying the fact I was right about Subban. I am pleasantly surprised with Markov's production though, as I didn't expect him to come back as strong as he has.

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03-16-2013, 09:50 AM
  #220
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Originally Posted by JGRB View Post
I've been saying for years that Subban was going to be our best player.

So does anyone actually believe that Markov is still better than Subban?
Absolutely. Markov has lost a step, so PK is more effective at certain aspects of the game, but Markov is still the anchor. Clearly, in my mind. The breakouts, puck possession and PP are still uber-elite.

We wouldn't survive a week without Markov, imo. Like someone said, he has that calming influence on the rest of the team.

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03-16-2013, 09:53 AM
  #221
Kriss E
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an idea? more like there were rumors and they've decided to take them for facts.
I don't think you need to have all the numbers to figure out whatever amount was demanded by PK before this year probably already increased, and will keep increasing so long as he plays that way.
Whatever he asked, he'll be asking for more, already that's a loss for us.

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03-16-2013, 10:03 AM
  #222
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Absolutely. Markov has lost a step, so PK is more effective at certain aspects of the game, but Markov is still the anchor. Clearly, in my mind. The breakouts, puck possession and PP are still uber-elite.

We wouldn't survive a week without Markov, imo. Like someone said, he has that calming influence on the rest of the team.
I disagree.
Right now, losing Markov or PK means the same, deep problems. Earlier this year, we managed without PK because Diaz was playing lights out too. Without PK/Markov and Diaz though, we'd struggle. Then again, I'm pretty sure we all thought the Sens were toast without Karlsson and Spezza, yet look at them.

Markov still holds the advantage with his poise on the PP. That and his breakout passes were his bread and butter. However, PK has made some really sick passes this year too, that somehow go unnoticed.
PK's defensive game is better than Markov's as well. Subban is also starting to get used more.

Subban is ahead of Markov at this point imo. Both are #1 Dmen. Both are very key to this team.

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03-16-2013, 10:05 AM
  #223
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Agree, now lets hope they get a third one and really complete the defensive core
I believe we might have one already with Diaz.
Diaz was a top D in Switzerland. He was starting to play like a real solid top 4 over here.
If you have a solid top 4 D playing as a bottom pair, you have a deep group.

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03-16-2013, 10:11 AM
  #224
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I believe we might have one already with Diaz.
Diaz was a top D in Switzerland. He was starting to play like a real solid top 4 over here.
If you have a solid top 4 D playing as a bottom pair, you have a deep group.
I was very surprised with Diaz's play early this year. He was looking great. He was a great pickup by the Habs. I would still like to see more of that play before I pencil him in as the #3 moving forward. He was doing great in a short period and I think a full season next year will allow us to gauge his position on the team more. But like you said, the deeper the group, the better the team will be.

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03-16-2013, 10:12 AM
  #225
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I don't think you need to have all the numbers to figure out whatever amount was demanded by PK before this year probably already increased, and will keep increasing so long as he plays that way.
Whatever he asked, he'll be asking for more, already that's a loss for us.
You seem to think that that would be a bad thing. It's good to have great players, and paying them as such is a normal occurrence around the league. How great is PK? We're finding out as we speak. Those that pretend to already have known how great he will be, sound foolish to me.

A lot of you think that PK will just continue developing upwards at a high rate until he is one of the best, with no hiccups. That is straight up thinking like a fan. No room for that in management. PK still had a lot to prove and although he's proving a lot this year already, he still has to do it consistently. It will/should happen, but do not take for granted the importance of that certainty to a good GM when signing big, long-term deals.

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