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Mikhail Grigorenko assigned to Quebec (QMJHL)

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Old
03-15-2013, 07:34 PM
  #126
Sean McG
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Burning the year off of his contract really doesn't bother me that much. I thought he should have made the team because at the time, it didn't seem like he'd eventually get stuck playing with the likes of Scott/Hecht/Kaleta/Stafford etc. Ideally we don't burn a year, but with Pegula it makes it less of a worry.

What I don't really get is the timing - if they sent him down today or five games from now it'd still burn a year off of his contract. Leino comes back, a guy he showed chemistry with early, and now he gets sent down? Why not give them a shot, even if it's for one game?

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03-15-2013, 07:42 PM
  #127
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Originally Posted by Sean McG View Post
Burning the year off of his contract really doesn't bother me that much. I thought he should have made the team because at the time, it didn't seem like he'd eventually get stuck playing with the likes of Scott/Hecht/Kaleta/Stafford etc. Ideally we don't burn a year, but with Pegula it makes it less of a worry.

What I don't really get is the timing - if they sent him down today or five games from now it'd still burn a year off of his contract. Leino comes back, a guy he showed chemistry with early, and now he gets sent down? Why not give them a shot, even if it's for one game?
if he played 1 more game he becomes a UFA one year earlier.

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Old
03-15-2013, 08:13 PM
  #128
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Good move. In hindsight keeping him up was probably not the best idea, but at least the Sabres aren't going to compound that by being too stubborn to admit they were wrong.

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03-15-2013, 09:13 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by Takeo View Post
He should have never stayed in Buffalo to begin with (despite what this entire messageboard claimed at the time). Regier has no clue what he's doing.
Everyone on the board, and the GM and coach, were wrong, except for that HF poster named Takeo

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03-15-2013, 10:13 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by jBuds View Post
Everyone on the board, and the GM and coach, were wrong, except for that HF poster named Takeo

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Old
03-15-2013, 10:16 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by jBuds View Post
Everyone on the board, and the GM and coach, were wrong, except for that HF poster named Takeo
If that's the opinion he had at the time, then well... kind of yeah.

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03-15-2013, 10:33 PM
  #132
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If that's the opinion he had at the time, then well... kind of yeah.
Even a stopped clock...

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03-15-2013, 11:36 PM
  #133
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The whole situation was a cluster****, and I'm kind of annoyed they took the belated, easy way out rather than cutting ties with some of the awful ****ing chaff on this roster (TJ Brennan, I'm looking at you, your inability to play AHL defense, specifically).
Somebody up there likes me.

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Old
03-15-2013, 11:39 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by vcv View Post
If that's the opinion he had at the time, then well... kind of yeah.
Not even "kind of"... He deserved to stay after the five games. The experiment then went on to fail miserably. It is what it is.

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03-15-2013, 11:40 PM
  #135
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About time

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Old
03-16-2013, 12:53 AM
  #136
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Originally Posted by jBuds View Post
Not even "kind of"... He deserved to stay after the five games. The experiment then went on to fail miserably. It is what it is.
I respectfully disagree. Primarily because I don't think it was an experiment. I believe they wanted to work with him for longer than the shortened camp and 5 game window would allow and have an owner thats willing to eat the money necessary to make it happen.


Grigs basically got the equivalent of training camp, pre-season and a 9 game tryout (the normal amount of games a player gets during a normal season). He's been here roughly two months and thats about how long that process (camp/preseason/9gms) would have taken in a normal length season.


I think the fretting over this is very much overblown. Regier could have sent the kid back any time in the last month if he wanted to. Since it was pretty obvious not too long after his 5gms he wasn't ready. But he chose to have Grigs work with this NHL staff (coaches and trainers) as well as get some limited game action in. They kept him as long as possible(22 games) before this became an accrued season that would count towards free agency.

What was really lost here?

-> Grigs was sent back before a season was a accrued towards free agency. So the 7 years of control is still in place.

--> Grigs missed about half of the QMJHL regular season (roughly 30-35gms) to get 2 months of NHL tutoring. He has worked on the things he needs to improve on at the NHL level with a NHL staff for the last 2 months (like working with the team's skating coach whose name escapes me at the moment). Seems like a fair trade off for half a QMJHL regular season. Especially considering.............

--> Grigs is back in time to play in the QMJHL playoffs. Something most of us felt would be a good for his development.


All the Sabres are out is money and a year of his contract. Something that doesn't matter with Pegula as the owner.

I see far more positives in this situation than most. Yeah its a bummer he wasn't ready but the potential positives for his development from his time here I think greatly outweighs the negative.

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03-16-2013, 01:19 AM
  #137
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Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
I respectfully disagree. Primarily because I don't think it was an experiment. I believe they wanted to work with him for longer than the shortened camp and 5 game window would allow and have an owner thats willing to eat the money necessary to make it happen.


Grigs basically got the equivalent of training camp, pre-season and a 9 game tryout (the normal amount of games a player gets during a normal season). He's been here roughly two months and thats about how long that process (camp/preseason/9gms) would have taken in a normal length season.


I think the fretting over this is very much overblown. Regier could have sent the kid back any time in the last month if he wanted to. Since it was pretty obvious not too long after his 5gms he wasn't ready. But he chose to have Grigs work with this NHL staff (coaches and trainers) as well as get some limited game action in. They kept him as long as possible(22 games) before this became an accrued season that would count towards free agency.

What was really lost here?

-> Grigs was sent back before a season was a accrued towards free agency. So the 7 years of control is still in place.

--> Grigs missed about half of the QMJHL regular season (roughly 30-35gms) to get 2 months of NHL tutoring. He has worked on the things he needs to improve on at the NHL level with a NHL staff for the last 2 months (like working with the team's skating coach whose name escapes me at the moment). Seems like a fair trade off for half a QMJHL regular season. Especially considering.............

--> Grigs is back in time to play in the QMJHL playoffs. Something most of us felt would be a good for his development.


All the Sabres are out is money and a year of his contract. Something that doesn't matter with Pegula as the owner.

I see far more positives in this situation than most. Yeah its a bummer he wasn't ready but the potential positives for his development from his time here I think greatly outweighs the negative.
Zero chance that Regier analyzed it in the manner you did. I wish he did, but that'd be giving him a lot of credit.

Personally, I thought Grigorenko improved. Each game was better. But the experiment wasn't a good one in that he didn't see the ice, didn't have talented linemates at all, didn't get worked in on the PP with any frequency, didn't get used in shoutouts, didn't even get one game where he was a regular in the rotation even if he had a bad shift.

It was mishandled.

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Old
03-16-2013, 01:51 AM
  #138
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Originally Posted by jBuds View Post
Zero chance that Regier analyzed it in the manner you did. I wish he did, but that'd be giving him a lot of credit.

Personally, I thought Grigorenko improved. Each game was better. But the experiment wasn't a good one in that he didn't see the ice, didn't have talented linemates at all, didn't get worked in on the PP with any frequency, didn't get used in shoutouts, didn't even get one game where he was a regular in the rotation even if he had a bad shift.

It was mishandled.

I'm not a huge Regier fan but he is nothing if not analytical. To think he just said, "hey lets keep the kid and see what he can do". That there was nothing more, well..... thats pretty daft.

All the talk the last few weeks was about the work Grigs was doing with the skating coach, the training staff, the coaches and Grigs exceptional attitude. Why on earth would they keep him up for as long as they did if it wasn't to work with the kid? So it was purely coincidence that he was sent down before 23 games and this season becoming an accrued one towards free agency?

Think for a moment. You said Grigs should have stayed after the 5 games. Ok so he did. So what exactly was mishandled after that? What is this experiment you keep talking about? Its seems pretty obvious the reason he was kept after he proved to not be NHL ready was because Regier wanted our NHL staff to work with him as long as they could before this became an accrued season. I'm all ears if you have another explanation as to why he stayed as long as he did and was sent down right now.

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03-16-2013, 09:19 AM
  #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jBuds View Post
Not even "kind of"... He deserved to stay after the five games. The experiment then went on to fail miserably. It is what it is.
I don't agree. His play has not been to NHL-levels and the lack of practicing, the lack of playing while there are still things he needed to work on at the Q level pointed to that. They took a chance and it's clearly not worked out as they burned his first year of the deal and also made it, as jfb's understanding of the AHL-NHL agreement pointed out, impossible for him to go to the Amerks if/when Quebec's season completes if the Amerks are still alive.

He wasn't ready, he has shown repeatedly he was not ready, putting him back in a position to grow and play with/against his peer group is better than leaving him on the bench or in the pressbox at this point. Playing time is gold. He'll get that now.

What we ought to be interested in is seeing how he throws himself into the Q season. This is also a chance for him to demonstrate his own development. If he sulks, it's a knock. If he comes in and shows a full 60-minute committment to the full 200' of ice, excellent. He has the tools to dominate down there. Now he needs to do it.

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03-16-2013, 09:35 AM
  #140
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Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
I respectfully disagree. Primarily because I don't think it was an experiment. I believe they wanted to work with him for longer than the shortened camp and 5 game window would allow and have an owner thats willing to eat the money necessary to make it happen.


Grigs basically got the equivalent of training camp, pre-season and a 9 game tryout (the normal amount of games a player gets during a normal season). He's been here roughly two months and thats about how long that process (camp/preseason/9gms) would have taken in a normal length season.


I think the fretting over this is very much overblown. Regier could have sent the kid back any time in the last month if he wanted to. Since it was pretty obvious not too long after his 5gms he wasn't ready. But he chose to have Grigs work with this NHL staff (coaches and trainers) as well as get some limited game action in. They kept him as long as possible(22 games) before this became an accrued season that would count towards free agency.

What was really lost here?

-> Grigs was sent back before a season was a accrued towards free agency. So the 7 years of control is still in place.

--> Grigs missed about half of the QMJHL regular season (roughly 30-35gms) to get 2 months of NHL tutoring. He has worked on the things he needs to improve on at the NHL level with a NHL staff for the last 2 months (like working with the team's skating coach whose name escapes me at the moment). Seems like a fair trade off for half a QMJHL regular season. Especially considering.............

--> Grigs is back in time to play in the QMJHL playoffs. Something most of us felt would be a good for his development.


All the Sabres are out is money and a year of his contract. Something that doesn't matter with Pegula as the owner.

I see far more positives in this situation than most. Yeah its a bummer he wasn't ready but the potential positives for his development from his time here I think greatly outweighs the negative.

Absolutely. I could not have said it better myself/

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03-16-2013, 09:42 AM
  #141
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and also made it, as jfb's understanding of the AHL-NHL agreement pointed out, impossible for him to go to the Amerks if/when Quebec's season completes if the Amerks are still alive.
Well, per Regier at 5:35 of presser: [When Grigorenko's junior] "season is over, we have the ability to bring him here and/or Rochester."

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03-16-2013, 09:54 AM
  #142
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Well, per Regier at 5:35 of presser: [When Grigorenko's junior] "season is over, we have the ability to bring him here and/or Rochester."
Good. So basically the kid gets to go play.

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03-16-2013, 10:11 AM
  #143
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QMJHL playoffs:

First round: 22 March - 2 April
Second round: 5 April - 16 April
Third round: 19 April - 30 April
Q Final: 3 May - 14 May
Menorial Cup: 17 May - 26 May

Quebec will probably win 1st round. If every favorite wins in the 1st round, they play a higher seed in the 2nd round but with Grigorenko, they have a really good chance of winning. They have been better than 2-3 teams higher than them recently, without Grigorenko.

My guess is that they lose in the 3rd round.

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Old
03-16-2013, 10:23 AM
  #144
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am i going to be the first to propose a Patrick Roy/Future Head Coach theory to this?

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03-16-2013, 10:26 AM
  #145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
I respectfully disagree. Primarily because I don't think it was an experiment. I believe they wanted to work with him for longer than the shortened camp and 5 game window would allow and have an owner thats willing to eat the money necessary to make it happen.


Grigs basically got the equivalent of training camp, pre-season and a 9 game tryout (the normal amount of games a player gets during a normal season). He's been here roughly two months and thats about how long that process (camp/preseason/9gms) would have taken in a normal length season.
that's the first time i've seen anyone look at it this way... and it makes a lot of sense.

which begs the question, who pointed it out to you?

Quote:
I think the fretting over this is very much overblown. Regier could have sent the kid back any time in the last month if he wanted to. Since it was pretty obvious not too long after his 5gms he wasn't ready. But he chose to have Grigs work with this NHL staff (coaches and trainers) as well as get some limited game action in. They kept him as long as possible(22 games) before this became an accrued season that would count towards free agency.
another good point...

stop it with your rational expose

Quote:
What was really lost here?

-> Grigs was sent back before a season was a accrued towards free agency. So the 7 years of control is still in place.

--> Grigs missed about half of the QMJHL regular season (roughly 30-35gms) to get 2 months of NHL tutoring. He has worked on the things he needs to improve on at the NHL level with a NHL staff for the last 2 months (like working with the team's skating coach whose name escapes me at the moment). Seems like a fair trade off for half a QMJHL regular season. Especially considering.............

--> Grigs is back in time to play in the QMJHL playoffs. Something most of us felt would be a good for his development.


All the Sabres are out is money and a year of his contract. Something that doesn't matter with Pegula as the owner.

I see far more positives in this situation than most. Yeah its a bummer he wasn't ready but the potential positives for his development from his time here I think greatly outweighs the negative.
agreed

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Old
03-16-2013, 10:28 AM
  #146
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Zero chance that Regier analyzed it in the manner you did. I wish he did, but that'd be giving him a lot of credit.


yea... "zero" chance....

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Old
03-16-2013, 10:45 AM
  #147
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Well, per Regier at 5:35 of presser: [When Grigorenko's junior] "season is over, we have the ability to bring him here and/or Rochester."
Does he stop getting a paycheck now that he is with the Remparts?

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03-16-2013, 10:46 AM
  #148
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This thread is very hard to read. Great move by Regier. Grigs got a taste of the NHL, worked on his skating with NHL trainers, gets to lead his team into the playoffs, and is eligible to play in the AHL playoffs.

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03-16-2013, 10:53 AM
  #149
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This thread is very hard to read. Great move by Regier. Grigs got a taste of the NHL, worked on his skating with NHL trainers, gets to lead his team into the playoffs, and is eligible to play in the AHL playoffs.
Yeah did not realize all of this at first, especially the Rochester part. Looks like a good move after all. ^_^

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03-16-2013, 11:34 AM
  #150
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Joshjull nailed it. I won't quote his long post, but I completely agree. I think Grigs' couple of months with the big club will benefit him, as will playing in the Q playoffs. It will be interesting to see how he performs there.

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