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Bergeron for Selke Again?

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Old
03-15-2013, 04:04 PM
  #51
jrolley325
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory Trevor View Post
Think he's going for Norris too. Drop it, he's not close.
actually yeah he's not as far off as you think. his defensive game is underrated by his vastly superior offensive game.

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03-15-2013, 04:05 PM
  #52
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I can't vouch for Bergeron as I don't catch many Bruins games, but Saku Koivu has been great for the Ducks this year. It sounds like Bergeron has this one in the bag, but I definitely hope Koivu gets a nomination.

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Old
03-15-2013, 04:08 PM
  #53
Pi
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Am I reading it right?

Bergeron hasn't been on the ice for a PP goal against even though he averages 2 mins of PK?

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03-15-2013, 04:10 PM
  #54
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Being on one of the best defensive teams in the league helps too. GA has as much or more to do with coaching and goaltending. Can't just isolate one guy on one team and draw all your conclusions from that. How does his numbers compare to other Boston players?

Bergeron is very solid from what I've seen, great on faceoffs, but it's still hard to not say Datsyuk is a step above. The fact Datsyuk has had to play with Cleary and Abdelkader and in front of guys like Lashoff/Quincey/Huskins/etc instead of Chara shouldn't take away from the fact he is just as good or possibly better on the defensive side of the puck as he was any of the previous years he won it.

Dats, Toews, Bergeron for top 3. Anyone is a good choice.

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Old
03-15-2013, 04:10 PM
  #55
Cory Trevor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrolley325 View Post
actually yeah he's not as far off as you think. his defensive game is underrated by his vastly superior offensive game.
Yah, and it's still nowhere near top 3. People were comparing his to Datsyuk's last week. LOL We aren't having that argument again. Hossa and Koivu alone are much better just to name a few.


And I will repost this from that past thread so we can see how, in one decent statistic(takeaways) represents the parity:

Datsyuk. Interesting stat:

Takeaways for his seasons

Year Amount Rank

2012 22 5th
2011 87 3rd
2010 71 11th
2009 132 1st
2008 89 2nd
2007 144 1st
2006 107 1st

I just did the seasons in which Crosby played and Crosby never finished in the top thirty in any of those. Takeaways aren't perfect but interesting.

Career turnover ratio:

Datsyuk: +302
Crosby: -142


Last edited by Cory Trevor: 03-15-2013 at 04:16 PM.
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Old
03-15-2013, 04:10 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by hatterson View Post
Matchups are, on average, slightly easier than Bergeron's and GA/60 is 50% higher than Bergeron's. In addition he starts nearly 56% of his shifts in the offensive zone as opposed to 45.5% for Bergeron. And that doesn't even mention that Bergeron is much more dominant on the PK.
With Chara & Siendenberg? (excuse my butchering of his name)

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Old
03-15-2013, 04:11 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pi View Post
Am I reading it right?

Bergeron hasn't been on the ice for a PP goal against even though he averages 2 mins of PK?
Correct, currently has played 60:48 shorthanded this season and the Bs have not allowed a goal while he's been on.

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03-15-2013, 04:19 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pavels Dog View Post
Being on one of the best defensive teams in the league helps too. GA has as much or more to do with coaching and goaltending. Can't just isolate one guy on one team and draw all your conclusions from that. How does his numbers compare to other Boston players?

Bergeron is very solid from what I've seen, great on faceoffs, but it's still hard to not say Datsyuk is a step above. The fact Datsyuk has had to play with Cleary and Abdelkader and in front of guys like Lashoff/Quincey/Huskins/etc instead of Chara shouldn't take away from the fact he is just as good or possibly better on the defensive side of the puck as he was any of the previous years he won it.

Dats, Toews, Bergeron for top 3. Anyone is a good choice.
GAOn/60 is .99. Next Bruin is Seguin at 1.19 and then Marchand at 1.53. Next non-linemate is Krejci at 2.15

Both Datsyuk and Toews are in like 5th for GA/60 on their teams. Hossa defensive numbers are as good or better than Toews and actually Franzen's have been as good or better than Datsyuk's this year so far.

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Old
03-15-2013, 04:20 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory Trevor View Post
Most of Canada and the metro-Chicago area says Toews. Just because of his name though when in actuality, Bergeron's been the best defensive forward. People see system and assume he's a product of it.

And that's not a slight against Toews, I watch alot of Hawks and he's been great. Still would give it to Bergeron though
MOD


Let's see a citation for your claims - that most of Canada thinks Toews is the Selke front-runner....


Last edited by Fugu: 03-15-2013 at 05:28 PM. Reason: good grief, generalizations, misconstruing the comment
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Old
03-15-2013, 04:22 PM
  #60
Cory Trevor
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Originally Posted by Davebo View Post
Let's see a citation for your claims - that most of Canada thinks Toews is the Selke front-runner....
Thank you, for proving my point. It was more of a bias against Bergeron because of Toews' name and the fact that he's most talked about player on this board. Really had nothing to do with America vs Canada

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03-15-2013, 04:25 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory Trevor View Post
Thank you, for proving my point. It was more of a bias against Bergeron because of Toews' name and the fact that he's most talked about player on this board. Really had nothing to do with America vs Canada
Proving your point? I'm still waiting for you to prove any point!

Where do you get that ALL of Canada is for Toews for Selke? You do know Bergeron is Canadian as well, don't you?


Last edited by Davebo: 03-15-2013 at 04:33 PM.
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Old
03-15-2013, 04:37 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by hatterson View Post
GAOn/60 is .99. Next Bruin is Seguin at 1.19 and then Marchand at 1.53. Next non-linemate is Krejci at 2.15

Both Datsyuk and Toews are in like 5th for GA/60 on their teams. Hossa defensive numbers are as good or better than Toews and actually Franzen's have been as good or better than Datsyuk's this year so far.
Which is a perfect example of why you can't use numbers alone for measuring defensive play. A brutal Franzen turnover was single handedly responsible for a goal against while Datsyuk was on the ice last game. In addition, Franzen isn't even in the same stratosphere as Datsyuk without the puck.

The players with better GA/60 on Detroit than Datsyuk are 4th liners who are getting sheltered minutes. They got stuck on the ice against the Sedin's a few weeks ago and within seconds the puck was in the back of the net. When Datsyuk was on the ice the Sedin's didn't have a quality chance of typical Sedin cycle.

Datsyuk is still the most disruptive forward in the NHL without the puck. His numbers are impressive when considering that he's playing the toughest minutes, with crap linemates, and no Nick Lidstrom or Brad Stuart anymore. Boston's defence definitely helps out Bergeron's on ice numbers.

With that being said, Bergeron's been on the ice for so few goals at this point in the season that you have to consider him the frontrunner. Datsyuk, Toews, and Mikko (who I've considered a top 5 defensive forward for about 5 yrs now) are all in the conversation.

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Old
03-15-2013, 04:37 PM
  #63
Cory Trevor
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Originally Posted by Davebo View Post
Proving your point? I'm still waiting for you to prove any point?

Where do get that ALL of Canada is for Toews?
http://thefarmclub.net/2013/03/04/nh...-selke-trophy/
http://www.zimbio.com/Jonathan+Toews...A/Selke+Leader
http://www.whitecovermag.com/about-us


I actually said most, in regards to some areas here in the east that will pull for Bergeron to repeat. I meant it mainly as people who prop up Toews as the greatest thing since sliced bread. I understand, he's the heart of Canada. But the impression I get, when I watch TSN(yes I do), and from posters here is that he's the frontrunner.

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Old
03-15-2013, 06:56 PM
  #64
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Correct, currently has played 60:48 shorthanded this season and the Bs have not allowed a goal while he's been on.
Wow, that's off-the-charts amazing.

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Old
03-16-2013, 07:14 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Cory Trevor View Post
I meant it mainly as people who prop up Toews as the greatest thing since sliced bread. I understand, he's the heart of Canada.


And Canada decides who all the awards go to? I must have missed the memo and voting ballet.

Still trolling, eh? Can't help yourself, but now at least I know why...

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Old
03-16-2013, 07:16 AM
  #66
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Bergeron would be a deserved winner, IMO. Great player.
....although I would say that the ludicrous PK stats owe a lot to Bruins as a team having the best PK I have ever seen.

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03-16-2013, 09:05 AM
  #67
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Bergeron is probably the funnest Bruin to watch in the past 10 years. Just an incredible player. I find it hard to find a more active stick in the NHL than Bergeron. It's hilarious to watch him forecheck or PK. He just flat out out-smarts players with his wizard-like stick position.

It all goes hand and hand with his skating ability and smarts too. The guy reads a play and reacts accordingly before the opposing player with the puck does.

Watching him stop and go, stop and go, dominate the boards, dominate open ice while stealing and tipping pucks left and right. It's just a blast to watch.

Also, lucky enough for Bruins fans, this guy rubs off on Seguin and Marchand as well--who are both exceptional skaters and stick position-ers in their own right--but only get better by learning from and playing with Bergy.

It's funny when I read posts in the thread about the Bergy line being one of the top lines in the league. I saw so many posts clearly from people who don't watch this line dominate EVERY SINGLE TEAM. It's not just points. It's board play, skating, stick work, back-checking and forechecking. There simply isn't a better line on the ice on either side on any given night.

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03-16-2013, 09:22 AM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pi View Post
Am I reading it right?

Bergeron hasn't been on the ice for a PP goal against even though he averages 2 mins of PK?
2 and a half minutes.
And he did play several minutes 3on5.

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03-16-2013, 09:25 AM
  #69
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If Bergeron stays like this for the rest of the season, the discussion should only be who gets to go to Vegas in that category to watch Bergy win it. (Next Bob Gainey?)

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Old
03-16-2013, 09:42 AM
  #70
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Yes I'd say it's his to lose. Bergeron is just an incredible player.

I also think his offensive skills are really overlooked, sure Marchand has broke out in a big way this season and Seguin is obviously extremely talented, but to me whenever I see that line it's Bergeron that's always the best player on the ice at any given time.

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Old
03-16-2013, 10:03 AM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tender Rip View Post
Bergeron would be a deserved winner, IMO. Great player.
....although I would say that the ludicrous PK stats owe a lot to Bruins as a team having the best PK I have ever seen.
Besides Rask, Bergeron has been far and away our best penalty killer. Probably player, too. Chara has been slumping, but obviously as shown from the Montreal game, a slumping Chara is still pretty dominant...

But in terms of skaters, I think Bergeron has easily been our best player so far.

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03-16-2013, 10:11 AM
  #72
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Besides Rask, Bergeron has been far and away our best penalty killer. Probably player, too. Chara has been slumping, but obviously as shown from the Montreal game, a slumping Chara is still pretty dominant...

But in terms of skaters, I think Bergeron has easily been our best player so far.
Chara slumping? News to me. B2B games with a goal and an assist prior to that, along with his normal defense.

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Old
03-16-2013, 11:16 AM
  #73
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Chara slumping? News to me. B2B games with a goal and an assist prior to that, along with his normal defense.
He's picking it up now.

Bergeron is the frontrunner right now for the Selke. He's the frontrunner for the next couple too.

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03-16-2013, 11:41 AM
  #74
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I think Bergeron is one of the true most underrated forwards. He's the best on the Bruins, and can do it in all areas.

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Old
03-16-2013, 11:47 AM
  #75
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Bergeron deserves the Selke as much as Crosby deserves the Hart. He's that good defensively.

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