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All-Encompassing Tortorella/Sather Thread

View Poll Results: A quarter of the way through the 2013 season, do you approve or disapprove of Torts?
Approve 168 50.45%
Disapprove 165 49.55%
Voters: 333. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
03-16-2013, 10:39 AM
  #826
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Originally Posted by robwrx04 View Post
Serious question for those who don't like Torts.

Would you prefer Renney?
Is Renney anybody? Cuz I'd prefer anybody to torts


I know it sounds unreasonable to many, but the team will get better the day he's fired...can't wait til then

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03-16-2013, 10:43 AM
  #827
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Originally Posted by Bob Richards View Post
Maybe someone should stand up to Torts. I recall hearing/reading stories that Messier would pull this move against Keenan to cool the volatility.
Rangers won in spite of Keenan....the team was the hands down best in the league though..


Torts has guys playing scared...they are scared to make mistakes so they are all shelled up

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03-16-2013, 10:56 AM
  #828
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We have two fourth lines. That's an issue.

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03-16-2013, 10:57 AM
  #829
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Quote:
Originally Posted by usernamesteph View Post
Rangers won in spite of Keenan....the team was the hands down best in the league though..


Torts has guys playing scared...they are scared to make mistakes so they are all shelled up
This fits my line of thinking as well. I can't imagine its all too comforting knowing that some of the smallest mistakes can have you riding pine.

Amazingly, this isn't consistent for every player.

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03-16-2013, 11:39 AM
  #830
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Originally Posted by Bob Richards View Post
This fits my line of thinking as well. I can't imagine its all too comforting knowing that some of the smallest mistakes can have you riding pine.

Amazingly, this isn't consistent for every player.
I really don't think this is the issue people on the boards make it out to be.

Notice the guys who it isn't consistent for - Callahan, Hagelin (mostly), Stepan, Nash, McD, Girardi, Staal...in other words, the guys who play a solid game most of the time. When they make small mistakes, which they do, it's not a big deal because they play smart, all-around games most of the time. Gaborik gets benched when he sucks. He should. If he's not scoring and he's making dumb plays he's nearly useless. Kreider got benched a lot for IMO, the same reasons. If he's not skating hard and getting scoring chances, not using his speed and his strengths, why should he get minutes? Who else is constantly getting these benchings? Boyle, who also is supposed to play a specific type of game and often fails at it?

To me, the guys who often get benched deserve it. Is anyone honestly going to argue that Gaborik, Kreider and Boyle, based on their play this season alone, not emotional feelings you may have for them, played well enough that they should be exempt from being benched? Richards should be with them. Aside from that, I don't see many problems with the benchings.

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03-16-2013, 11:47 AM
  #831
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Originally Posted by GordonGecko View Post
Or maybe just maybe they're tired of sacrificing their bodies every night laying down on the ice, not having the freedom to make the plays they're well-suited for, getting yelled at, and then being hung out to dry in the media afterwards

Ever think about that?
Maybe they're tired of playing tough hockey? The professional hockey players? I sure hope not.

Who doesn't have the "freedom?" Where is Torts' fury when Nash makes a creative play? Or when Callahan or Stepan make smart, creative passes? Or when Staal would pinch and play solid offense? It seems to me like the players have the freedom to make plays and the ones that are capable of doing so do it fairly often. I have never seen an NYR player under Torts make a smart creative play and then get yelled at for it, benched for it or called out after a game for it. Ever.

As for getting yelled at and "hung out to dry" - it doesn't seem like there's an inordinate amount of yelling on the bench compared to most other coaches and very, very rarely are players called out individually. When they are, many responded very positively, like Hagelin and Boyle.

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03-16-2013, 11:50 AM
  #832
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I don't think I've ever seen Torts break down an offensive play on "Behind the Bench". It's always a defensive face-off, a backcheck, or penalty kill analysis.

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03-16-2013, 11:51 AM
  #833
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haveandare View Post
I really don't think this is the issue people on the boards make it out to be.

Notice the guys who it isn't consistent for - Callahan, Hagelin (mostly), Stepan, Nash, McD, Girardi, Staal...in other words, the guys who play a solid game most of the time. When they make small mistakes, which they do, it's not a big deal because they play smart, all-around games most of the time. Gaborik gets benched when he sucks. He should. If he's not scoring and he's making dumb plays he's nearly useless. Kreider got benched a lot for IMO, the same reasons. If he's not skating hard and getting scoring chances, not using his speed and his strengths, why should he get minutes? Who else is constantly getting these benchings? Boyle, who also is supposed to play a specific type of game and often fails at it?

To me, the guys who often get benched deserve it. Is anyone honestly going to argue that Gaborik, Kreider and Boyle, based on their play this season alone, not emotional feelings you may have for them, played well enough that they should be exempt from being benched? Richards should be with them. Aside from that, I don't see many problems with the benchings.
Hmmmmm. These are also good points as well. I would like to see Richards hold a bit more accountability though. His play has improved though. Then again, hard to get worse than absolute zero.

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03-16-2013, 11:52 AM
  #834
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Originally Posted by usernamesteph View Post
Is Renney anybody? Cuz I'd prefer anybody to torts


I know it sounds unreasonable to many, but the team will get better the day he's fired...can't wait til then
How quickly you forget the Ron Low, Trottier, Muckler years...

Torts took us to the ECF for the first time in 15 years, and you would prefer "anybody". Sounds pretty silly.

Torts being fired isn't all of a sudden going to make bad players on our bottom 6 start to score goals. This is more Sather's fault, imo. He let PA Parenteau walk for nothing. He let Prust go because he's an egomaniac. There have been some major mistakes made over the past few years that have led us to where we are.

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03-16-2013, 12:49 PM
  #835
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With each game that goes by, I cant help but laugh at the continued railing against "Torts' dump and chase system."

If you take a look at whats really going on, you'd see an alarming habit of absolutely no speed through the nuetral zone. This being the consistent case, the argument between dump and chase or playmaking hockey is moot. These guys are skating in mud right now. If they dont find some desperation and get their legs moving, it doesnt matter what system they play.

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03-16-2013, 12:50 PM
  #836
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Richards View Post
Hmmmmm. These are also good points as well. I would like to see Richards hold a bit more accountability though. His play has improved though. Then again, hard to get worse than absolute zero.
Absolutely. I totally agree with you there. Letting Richards glide through this season with his terrible play has been, in my opinion, the biggest mistake Torts has made. I get the idea of trying to get him to play through his struggles, but we're more than halfway through the season - if he's not getting it together by now, he's not going to get it together this year. He's out of NHL shape. I think he really took it too easy this off-season, and without setting that foundation, he's going to have a really hard time achieving the right level of fitness this year.

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03-16-2013, 12:50 PM
  #837
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
With each game that goes by, I cant help but laugh at the continued railing against "Torts' dump and chase system."

If you take a look at whats really going on, you'd see an alarming habit of absolutely no speed through the nuetral zone. This being the consistent case, the argument between dump and chase or playmaking hockey is moot. These guys are skating in mud right now. If they dont find some desperation and get their legs moving, it doesnt matter what system they play.
Seriously. They also can't pass to save their lives today. Something tells me that relying on their non-existant passing ability would only make this worse.

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03-16-2013, 01:36 PM
  #838
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Originally Posted by GordonGecko View Post
Or maybe just maybe they're tired of sacrificing their bodies every night laying down on the ice, not having the freedom to make the plays they're well-suited for, getting yelled at, and then being hung out to dry in the media afterwards

Ever think about that?
I doubt he does think about that. There are still some Torts apologists here

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03-16-2013, 01:38 PM
  #839
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Originally Posted by KreiMeARiver View Post
How quickly you forget the Ron Low, Trottier, Muckler years...

Torts took us to the ECF for the first time in 15 years, and you would prefer "anybody". Sounds pretty silly.

Torts being fired isn't all of a sudden going to make bad players on our bottom 6 start to score goals. This is more Sather's fault, imo. He let PA Parenteau walk for nothing. He let Prust go because he's an egomaniac. There have been some major mistakes made over the past few years that have led us to where we are.

Torts is getting way too much credit for the ECF. Hank was a beast last year and i think guys like prust was more of a factor than we thought

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03-16-2013, 01:41 PM
  #840
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Originally Posted by NYRangers723 View Post
Torts is getting way too much credit for the ECF. Hank was a beast last year and i think guys like prust was more of a factor than we thought
When the team does well it's because of the players. When the team does poorly it's because of the coach.

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03-16-2013, 01:44 PM
  #841
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Originally Posted by haveandare View Post
When the team does well it's because of the players. When the team does poorly it's because of the coach.
In this league you have to be able to score and Torts system has never allowed that to happen. We have the talent to score but the system sucks IMO.

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03-16-2013, 01:53 PM
  #842
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KreiMeARiver View Post
How quickly you forget the Ron Low, Trottier, Muckler years...

Torts took us to the ECF for the first time in 15 years, and you would prefer "anybody". Sounds pretty silly.

Torts being fired isn't all of a sudden going to make bad players on our bottom 6 start to score goals. This is more Sather's fault, imo. He let PA Parenteau walk for nothing. He let Prust go because he's an egomaniac. There have been some major mistakes made over the past few years that have led us to where we are.
Truth. Ani and Dubi were part of the Nash deal, so I'm OK with that, but we let Prust walk, (and PA) and then we hire washed up goons for top $$. Stupid. Sather is running out of time in my book

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03-16-2013, 02:08 PM
  #843
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Originally Posted by NYRangers723 View Post
In this league you have to be able to score and Torts system has never allowed that to happen. We have the talent to score but the system sucks IMO.
They certainly tried to think offense on Pitt's 3rd goal and it turned into a disaster.

The players stink. Period. Led by Richards and Gaborik. No system adjustment is going to fix that. Thats on them.

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03-16-2013, 02:15 PM
  #844
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For those who support torts: what is it about his coaching style that you do like? And I mean specifically the way he coaches. Nothing related to "he took us to the ECF last year" or "he won a cup 10 years ago"

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03-16-2013, 02:20 PM
  #845
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Fire this ******* now.

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03-16-2013, 02:21 PM
  #846
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For those who support torts: what is it about his coaching style that you do like? And I mean specifically the way he coaches. Nothing related to "he took us to the ECF last year" or "he won a cup 10 years ago"
Last season, I thought he was a great motivator. He fielded a team that competed every single shift. Thats not there this season - complaints about that and musings about how he might have lost this team carry a bit more weight than the generic and ignorant talk about a system/style of play problem.

With that said, Torts is not the guy who rebuilt a roster by virtually ignoring the bottom 6. Perhaps more importantly, Richards and Gaborik, who played pretty damn well in the same system last season have stunk beyond belief.

Theres so much blame to go around. Those calling for Torts' head would simply get a new name, but a lot more would need to change to get different results.

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03-16-2013, 02:22 PM
  #847
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fire torts chant next home game

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03-16-2013, 02:22 PM
  #848
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The problem with Tortorella is that he is just out-coached on a regular basis, the only way he can make up for it is to get his players to work harder than the other team.

But its just getting ridiculous how far behind we are other teams in terms of X and O. We don't even try to exeucte transition plays and what not. Just throws the puck up the boards all the time. Compareable teams are tremendously more drilled and creative than we.

Its just embarassing.

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03-16-2013, 02:23 PM
  #849
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This is looking just like it did in that 2-3 week period before Renney got fired. No life, no heart, no offense, just nothing. I get the feeling that some kind of a change will be made here soon.

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03-16-2013, 02:26 PM
  #850
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Last season, I thought he was a great motivator. He fielded a team that competed every single shift. Thats not there this season - complaints about that and musings about how he might have lost this team carry a bit more weight than the generic and ignorant talk about a system/style of play problem.

With that said, Torts is not the guy who rebuilt a roster by virtually ignoring the bottom 6. Perhaps more importantly, Richards and Gaborik, who played pretty damn well in the same system last season have stunk beyond belief.

Theres so much blame to go around. Those calling for Torts' head would simply get a new name, but a lot more would need to change to get different results.
Sure, he is a great motivator.

But there is no denying that we played like **** most of last season and relied on Hank. We got a dream match-up in the PO's playing the 8th, 7th and 6th seed, and looked like sheit and relied on Hank.

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