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Say we do indeed trade Frolov...

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Old
07-31-2006, 04:49 PM
  #76
kingsfan25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reaper45 View Post
Don't feel bad, I'm the same way. For years we dealt away our prospects before they turned into anything, and now we have a guy who we've brought along the right way, and has only been on the team for 3 years constantly progressing, and people want to give up on him already.
Granted, there were a lot of crappy prospect dumpings (mainly before DT's days). However, this isn't the same. The people who wouldn't be opposed to trading Fro aren't advocating his dumping for a rental...they're doing so in the hopes that a relatively young and better player might come back in return. Obviously the risk of losing that better player is nothing to dismiss, but if the deal is right...

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07-31-2006, 04:49 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by dbbourn View Post
How good would Jokinen look on this team now? Granted, that deal brought us Palffy, and Smolinski, which essentially became Gleason. Still, he would be a nice piece to the puzzle right now.
Not to mention what Sydor, Lang, Zhitnik all became.
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Originally Posted by kingsfan25 View Post
If DL doesn't like him, hanging onto him for 4 years while he tries to build the team he wants won't make alot of sense. I agree about the risk...the top six is questionable enough as it is and Frolov, despite his perceived shortcomings, has proven that he can produce at a top-six level. If DL were to swing a deal for a player of better ilk, I don't see it as impossible that he could get some assurances that said player would be willing to sign with LA long term...after all, players are often consulted with regards to their trade destinations by the GM that's shipping them out. If DL wants some assurances before a trade is pulled off, I'm sure he could get them. Granted, such assurances wouldn't be set in stone by any means, but it does reduce the risk to an extent.

It would seem that DL is willing to let Frolov stay and play himself back into his good graces if the right trade isn't available...but if the right deal does come along before the season starts, and Frolov doesn't, in fact, strike him as the kind of player he wants around, the trade might be warranted.
Which is why I don't understand Lombardi doing what he's done if he hasn't even seen Frolov under a new coach...

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07-31-2006, 04:52 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Reaper45 View Post
Which is why I don't understand Lombardi doing what he's done if he hasn't even seen Frolov under a new coach...
I imagine DL's conflicted about this as well...it's not a simple issue.

However, we go back to guys like Gleason and Cammalleri, who played on the same teams as Frolov, but who demonstrate that determination or whatever you want to call it, that Frolov seems to lack.

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07-31-2006, 05:26 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Tadite View Post
No you don't. Because as DL said why trade a guy who is a top line player for the next 4 years for a guy who could be gone in a year?
I'm not speaking specifics; I'm speaking in general.

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07-31-2006, 05:38 PM
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Originally Posted by kingsfan25 View Post
If DL were to swing a deal for a player of better ilk, I don't see it as impossible that he could get some assurances that said player would be willing to sign with LA long term...after all, players are often consulted with regards to their trade destinations by the GM that's shipping them out. If DL wants some assurances before a trade is pulled off, I'm sure he could get them. Granted, such assurances wouldn't be set in stone by any means, but it does reduce the risk to an extent.
If I were in DT's shoes, I'd try to get an assurance from Briere/Gomez that he'll sign at least a 1yr extension in January. That would be easier for the player to agree to because it'd be putting off free agency only 1 year and would seem fairer to the club. Also, when January rolls around, already being committed to a 1yr extension might increase his willingness to sign an even longer extension.

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07-31-2006, 06:04 PM
  #81
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Give Fro another season

I'd give Frolov 1 more season to kick it up a notch.

If he scores 30 Gs and around 70 pts, all will be forgiven.

He should be given another year to achieve at least that level.

If he slips, he can be packaged in a trade next summer.

Actually, I'd like to see him last long enough to play with Kopitar or Boyle (but that will require 2 more years or so--If he flounders, he may lose that chance with our club--Fair enough).

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07-31-2006, 07:49 PM
  #82
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I think people are reading too much into this. DL basicaly said he expects more from Frolov. There is no way he trades him for a less valuable player. As far as Frolov's worth ethic...anyone remember his rookie year and how much praise he got from the coaching staff regarding his excellect work ethic and willingness to learn and succeed. As far as I know he's the only player we have that can dominate a game at both ends. Would I trade him? Only if I got offered Gaborik,Malkin, etc. However we all know that's not going to happen. In any case DL isn't stupid and we should trust him on making the right call, but if he does trade Frolov for crap then I will seriously consider not spending another dime on the Kings.

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07-31-2006, 07:53 PM
  #83
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Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Frolov dealing with some personal issues this past season?

I was under they impression that he was going through a divorce, and I believe there was a kid involved.

Perhaps that affected his play/work ethic.

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07-31-2006, 08:18 PM
  #84
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Didn't hear anything about Frolov having personal {family} issue's ... oh, except for the typical fan internet BS gossip someone started when his car went up for sale on e-bay ... but he did get hurt at the Olypic break {shulder} and many thought came back too soon to try and help the team, he had a great return game against Nashville scoring two goals, that was also Torchetti's debut, so who knows maybe he re-injured himself after that and didn't tell anyone because he wasn't much of a factor the rest of the year only getting two additional assists in the remaining 11 games.

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07-31-2006, 08:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnjm22 View Post
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Frolov dealing with some personal issues this past season?

I was under they impression that he was going through a divorce, and I believe there was a kid involved.

Perhaps that affected his play/work ethic.
These issues aren't something that just popped up last season...they've been there for awhile, IMO.

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07-31-2006, 08:48 PM
  #86
Ziggy Stardust
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It's pretty tough to stickhandle and shoot and fend off defenders with a bum shoulder.

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07-31-2006, 09:06 PM
  #87
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So people know, I wasn't being critical of Frolov, I don't think we should move him either, if anything he's a very good #2 LW for the $$$ and with O'Sullivan pushing him this season and next, either Frolov remains a very good #2 LW behind O'Sullivan {possible} or Frolov becomes a Very Good to Great LW especailly for the $$$ ahead of O'Sullivan {also possible}, either way I don't see why anyone would be in a rush to move him unless we get greatness in return, and with so many Kings fans putting Frolov down, you somewhat deminish his value for a good return.

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07-31-2006, 09:11 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
It's pretty tough to stickhandle and shoot and fend off defenders with a bum shoulder.
I'm pretty sure that most of the concerns regarding Frolov pre-date his injury. His scoring problems started just after November (with his 16-game goal-less drought), not with his Olympic injury.

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07-31-2006, 09:21 PM
  #89
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Frolov was scoring at a fairly decent pace up until his return, check out his game log, http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/players/...wVAzvOSxlivLYF

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07-31-2006, 09:21 PM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
It's pretty tough to stickhandle and shoot and fend off defenders with a bum shoulder.
That's the thing. I've been trying to stress to everyone that his inconsistancy issues stem directly from him being hurt. No one was ever critical of him before that. It's convienent to be that way of him now.

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07-31-2006, 09:39 PM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reaper45 View Post
That's the thing. I've been trying to stress to everyone that his inconsistancy issues stem directly from him being hurt. No one was ever critical of him before that. It's convienent to be that way of him now.
Actually Osprey is a bit more on with Frolov's 16 game drought in goals, many people started to question what was going on and how much of the time it looked like he was just gliding around on the ice rather than actually pushing and showing some hustle to get back into a scoring mode again, wasn't even Andy Murray starting to call out Frolov in the press a little around that time ?

Anyways, he's still young and should get better, I don't say give up on him by any means yet, see what he does under the new staff, and with O'Sullivan pushing at his feet to take his spot ... Frolov could have a break out year of something like 35-40 goals and I'd rather that be with the Kings than against the Kings !

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07-31-2006, 09:42 PM
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Puck U View Post
Actually Osprey is a bit more on with Frolov's 16 game drought in goals, many people started to question what was going on and how much of the time it looked like he was just gliding around on the ice rather than actually pushing and showing some hustle to get back into a scoring mode again, wasn't even Andy Murray starting to call out Frolov in the press a little around that time ?

Anyways, he's still young and should get better, I don't say give up on him by any means yet, see what he does under the new staff, and with O'Sullivan pushing at his feet to take his spot ... Frolov could have a break out year of something like 35-40 goals and I'd rather that be with the Kings than against the Kings !
Yeah but during his 16 game drought the entire team was in the start of it's decent. He wasn't the only one.

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07-31-2006, 10:01 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
Frolov was scoring at a fairly decent pace up until his return, check out his game log, http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/players/...wVAzvOSxlivLYF
I looked at that, too. As you can see, he had a great October and November and then really trailed off after that, starting with a 16-game goal-less drought. His trouble scoring started before the injury.

There were 3 distinct segments of the season for Frolov:
...until Nov 28th: 31pts (13g) in 24gms
...from Nov 28th to the Olympic break: 18pts (6g) in 31gms
...after the Olympic break: 5pts (2g) in 12gms

Those are the stats. He was, obviously, bad when he was injured, but that only accounted for 12 games of the year. I don't think people are faulting him for that, especially since those games at the end were awful for everyone. The more concerning stat, and what I think most people are referring to, is the middle of his season, in which he had that drought and managed only 6 goals in 31 games while healthy.


Last edited by Osprey: 07-31-2006 at 10:12 PM.
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07-31-2006, 10:03 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Reaper45 View Post
Yeah but during his 16 game drought the entire team was in the start of it's decent. He wasn't the only one.
That's not true. His 16-game drought occurred almost entirely in December, statiscally, the team's 2nd-best month of the year (with a 9-5-1 record). Demitra was healthy and Garon won Defensive Player of the Month.

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07-31-2006, 10:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Osprey View Post
That's not true. His 16-game drought occurred almost entirely in December, statiscally, the team's 2nd-best month of the year (with a 9-5-1 record). Demitra was healthy and Garon won Defensive Player of the Month.
My mistake.

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07-31-2006, 10:10 PM
  #96
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He certainly was streaky and his production did wallow (as did every other facet of the team), but it's part of the growing pains of a young scorer who is counted on to do too much. I think some people here have unrealistic expectations out of Frolov, thinking he's like another Kovalchuk. He isn't the type who is going to carry the team's offense or be the "go-to-guy" on offense. He is a nice complimentary forward who can chip in 25-30-35 goals or so and score 50-60+ points. And he is paid accordingly. He will continue to improve.

Now I don't want to compare Frolov's two-way game to that of a three-time Selke winner, but just look at Lehtinen's production his first couple of seasons into the league compared to the goal totals he had produced today, http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p....php3?pid=3088

Frolov is actually pretty sound in his own end and can be a threat on the penalty kill, as he scored three shorties and had five shorthanded points. I think his pain problem last season was hanging on to the puck too long and not shooting when he should. Andy Murray got on him for that and Frolov finally realized that and viola, more pucks went into the net for Frolov when he started shooting more around November.

IF the Kings are going to deal Frolov, it better be for an upgrade up front, otherwise, they are throwing away what little offense they already have.

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07-31-2006, 10:10 PM
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Yep the traditional December team collapse didn't come until January this last season

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07-31-2006, 10:16 PM
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I actually think the collapse DID in fact start in December. Remember their dreadful road trip that started in late November with losses against Detroit and Chicago? They got destroyed by Ottawa to open up December and then were lifeless against Montreal and just barely survived to squeak out a win against Toronto.

Then they had a good swing of games to close out the month, but I started to wonder about this team during that game against Ottawa. It started to get worse in January with their 10-1 loss to Buffalo and getting dominated by Anaheim twice by scores of 6-2. It was evident by January this team was going to struggle the rest of the way.

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07-31-2006, 10:22 PM
  #99
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At this point, I think we should hang on to Frolov. Perhaps there is a chance he'll have a better season & will be worth more because it seems he's not worth much at all right now. On the other hand, he might be worth even less after next season is done with.

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07-31-2006, 10:23 PM
  #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
He certainly was streaky and his production did wallow (as did every other facet of the team), but it's part of the growing pains of a young scorer who is counted on to do too much. I think some people here have unrealistic expectations out of Frolov, thinking he's like another Kovalchuk. He isn't the type who is going to carry the team's offense or be the "go-to-guy" on offense. He is a nice complimentary forward who can chip in 25-30-35 goals or so and score 50-60+ points. And he is paid accordingly.
I agree, Ziggy. I was only answering the claim that his play with a bum shoulder was the only reason for people being down on him. I'm not advocating anything for Frolov one way or another.


Last edited by Osprey: 07-31-2006 at 10:35 PM.
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