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Old
03-16-2013, 04:55 PM
  #551
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Originally Posted by Holyhell View Post
How basically?
Flat out said it.

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03-16-2013, 04:56 PM
  #552
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Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
In that time he made more of a positive impact than a large portion of the other players on our team.
I missed the start of the game so I don't know what he did but that says more about some of the other players on this team than it does about Bordeleau. There is no reason to have him in the line up if he's playing 5 minutes a game. But he also doesn't have the skill to play a lot more than that so just leave him in the press box. Especially since he's not even fighting. We're getting crushed on the scoreboard and on the ice and last game the Wild players hacked at Varly after every whistle without a response from the Avs. If Sacco isn't going to send Bordeleau out there to put an end to that, then why play him at all?

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03-16-2013, 04:56 PM
  #553
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Duchene is only half right.

The games against Columbus and Edmonton, those losses were purely because they had no effort at all.

I get he's frustrated and he probably wants to say coaching is the reason they are losing. But Sacco isn't making those turnovers and bad line changes for them.

They are losing these games by themselves due to their own mistakes.

These guys have played hockey their whole dang lives. They shouldn't need a coach to tell them how to make simple plays that got them to where they are.


Last edited by avsfan89: 03-16-2013 at 05:02 PM.
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Old
03-16-2013, 04:57 PM
  #554
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Originally Posted by Avsboy View Post
Seth Jones will be similar.
Is he? I always thought he leaned more towards the Stars.

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Originally Posted by landesberg View Post
Duchene said it wasn't talent or effort why the Avs are in this hole. He says it's more about concentration, because the guys are scared of being the next guy to make a mistake.

More or less.
Oh the joys of being coached by loose cannon Joe.

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Old
03-16-2013, 04:57 PM
  #555
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No need for Bordy today, Konopka is a middleweight and someone McLeod can handle.
i think you're giving McLeod to much credit

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Old
03-16-2013, 04:58 PM
  #556
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Well he fought their heavyweight right after they scored. That is his only job and he did it.
My bad, didn't see the 1st and 2nd and missed seing Rupp in the lineup.

Yes with Rupp in the lineup its more justified to have Bordy in.

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03-16-2013, 04:58 PM
  #557
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Originally Posted by landesberg View Post
Duchene said it wasn't talent or effort why the Avs are in this hole. He says it's more about concentration, because the guys are scared of being the next guy to make a mistake.

More or less.
That surely seems like he's meaning coaching staff here.

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03-16-2013, 05:00 PM
  #558
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Duchene is doing his part, he's one of the best players in the league right now, and he's a fan favourite. He knows he's untouchable. Him taking a bit of a shot at Sacco doesn't surprise me at all. I'm actually surprised it took this long.

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03-16-2013, 05:02 PM
  #559
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Originally Posted by Avs_19 View Post
I missed the start of the game so I don't know what he did but that says more about some of the other players on this team than it does about Bordeleau. There is no reason to have him in the line up if he's playing 5 minutes a game. But he also doesn't have the skill to play a lot more than that so just leave him in the press box. Especially since he's not even fighting. We're getting crushed on the scoreboard and on the ice and last game the Wild players hacked at Varly after every whistle without a response from the Avs. If Sacco isn't going to send Bordeleau out there to put an end to that, then why play him at all?
You really need to pick someone else to pine about. Bordsy played as well as can be expected, he deserved more time to energize the team with some big hits. He messed up Rupp and almost destroyed a Wild player that literally fell to the ice to avoid him.

He is an excellent 12/13 forward and has earned his roster spot.

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Old
03-16-2013, 05:05 PM
  #560
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Didn't watch this game thank god.

Duchene is now 1 point behind Kane/Getzlaf for the Western conference scoring lead. 13th overall in the league.

One bright spot at least.

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Old
03-16-2013, 05:08 PM
  #561
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Bords really needs to work on his skating and puck control this summer. I like the guy and would be happy to see him back, but he is very much only an enforcer right now.

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03-16-2013, 05:08 PM
  #562
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Lol were playing Chicago next. We need to start discussing who is better, Jones or Drouin.
Seph, don't you think that 'IF' Jones is on the board, for us you have to take him before Drouin every time? Based on needs and BPA?

If Jones is off the board, and it's between Drouin & Mack... I'll take Drouin right now.

#1 Jones
#2 Drouin
#3 Mackinnon

After that #4-6 are a kind of group, then #7-12 seem like another group.

One thing that is interesting is that Florida will probably be picking #1 unless someone wins the lottery over them, but their defensive prospects are seriously strong.

Do they take Drouin/Mackinnon over Jones? They need serious help at the forward positions, up front their like a cast of circus characters thrown together from free-agency.

Highest I think we'll pick is #2 (again unless we win the lottery), Florida is just far worse...

(Biggest problems are defense & coaching IMO)

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Old
03-16-2013, 05:08 PM
  #563
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
You really need to pick someone else to pine about. Bordsy played as well as can be expected, he deserved more time to energize the team with some big hits. He messed up Rupp and almost destroyed a Wild player that literally fell to the ice to avoid him.

He is an excellent 12/13 forward and has earned his roster spot.
"pine about"?

Bordeleau doesn't effect the game either way. He doesn't win us games and he doesn't lose them either. IMO, there's just no reason for him to be playing. If you disagree with that, good for you. You're entitled to your opinion.

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03-16-2013, 05:11 PM
  #564
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Originally Posted by avsfan89 View Post
Duchene is only half right.

The game against Columbus and Edmonton, those losses were purely because they had no effort at all.

I get he's frustrated and he probably wants to say coaching is the reason they are losing. But Sacco isn't making those turnovers and bad line changes for them.

They are losing these games by themselves due to their own mistakes.

These guys have played hockey their whole dang lives. They shouldn't need a coach to tell them how to make simple plays that got them to where they are.

Disagree again. Coaching is such a big part. Yes every Av is playing the game for their whole lifes. But so have the opposing players. The difference is coaching. Just look around.
The Devils went from a good to great team under Lemaire to horrible under this one guy for one year only to make it back to the Stanley Cup the next year under a new coach.
What changed ? Basically only their coach.

Look at the Kings last year. They were worse than the Avs midway through the season. They could not score to save their lifes.
What happened? New coach. They still are not scoring that much but they improved enough to win it all.
Hell even look at the Leafs.
I still don't get how this mess of a team can hold a playoff spot right now. Maybe they will collapse again but Carlyle certainly made a huge impact.
Look at Washington. What happened after Boudreau? They absolutely crapped the bed.
Look at Anaheim. Carlyle was burnt out there. His methods got old. In comes Boudreau and now they are a Top 3 team again.
What about Montreal? They finished 28th last year IIRC.
Now they have a new coach and are a serious contender in the East.
What about Ottawa? They were putrid and only Anderson kept them from stealing Landeskog from us. What happened? New coach and now they are probably making the playoffs with their top two players being out for the season.
Look at what Trotz and Tippet do with a subpar roster. Babcock still holds Detroits roster together somehow without having much to work with besides 35 yr old Datsyuk and 3x year old Zetterberg.
Coaching is huge.

The effects of a coaching change can be shortlived like in Philly under Laviolette or in Tampa Bay under Boucher but both of those guys turned the respective teams around and they went very deep in the playoffs. Both have goaltending/defensive issues right now for some reason.
But still. You can have all the talent in the world. If your coach sucks, you are screwed. Pens had to fire Therrien to finally win it all.

Without a good coach you are nothing. The parity in this league talentwise makes it a coaches league IMO. The days of the dynasty Avs who could have gotten by with a subpar coach are over for good.

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03-16-2013, 05:13 PM
  #565
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CobraAcesS View Post
Seph, don't you think that 'IF' Jones is on the board, for us you have to take him before Drouin every time? Based on needs and BPA?

If Jones is off the board, and it's between Drouin & Mack... I'll take Drouin right now.

#1 Jones
#2 Drouin
#3 Mackinnon



(Biggest problems are defense & coaching IMO)
Oh totally, Jones is my clear cut #1 by a big margin, but getting Drouin or MacKinnon would also be amazing and should be discussed as well. I also do agree that the highest pick we will get is either 2 or 3 overall. Still think we are around a 9th place team overall.

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03-16-2013, 05:14 PM
  #566
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Originally Posted by Avs_19 View Post
"pine about"?

Bordeleau doesn't effect the game either way. He doesn't win us games and he doesn't lose them either. IMO, there's just no reason for him to be playing. If you disagree with that, good for you. You're entitled to your opinion.
It means to fret about.

My point is simple, he does us more good than harm and there are a dozen other players that deserve to be ridiculed first on this team. He can skate well for an enforcer and he is intimidating when on the ice. He is exactly the type of guy you want the Marchands, Clutterbucks and Shaws of this league to remember are on your team when they take a run at your star players.

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Old
03-16-2013, 05:17 PM
  #567
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Originally Posted by JoemAvs View Post
Disagree again. Coaching is such a big part. Yes every Av is playing the game for their whole lifes. But so have the opposing players. The difference is coaching. Just look around.
The Devils went from a good to great team under Lemaire to horrible under this one guy for one year only to make it back to the Stanley Cup the next year under a new coach.
What changed ? Basically only their coach.

Look at the Kings last year. They were worse than the Avs midway through the season. They could not score to save their lifes.
What happened? New coach. They still are not scoring that much but they improved enough to win it all.
Hell even look at the Leafs.
I still don't get how this mess of a team can hold a playoff spot right now. Maybe they will collapse again but Carlyle certainly made a huge impact.
Look at Washington. What happened after Boudreau? They absolutely crapped the bed.
Look at Anaheim. Carlyle was burnt out there. His methods got old. In comes Boudreau and now they are a Top 3 team again.
What about Montreal? They finished 28th last year IIRC.
Now they have a new coach and are a serious contender in the East.
What about Ottawa? They were putrid and only Anderson kept them from stealing Landeskog from us. What happened? New coach and now they are probably making the playoffs with their top two players being out for the season.
Look at what Trotz and Tippet do with a subpar roster. Babcock still holds Detroits roster together somehow without having much to work with besides 35 yr old Datsyuk and 3x year old Zetterberg.
Coaching is huge.

The effects of a coaching change can be shortlived like in Philly under Laviolette or in Tampa Bay under Boucher but both of those guys turned the respective teams around and they went very deep in the playoffs. Both have goaltending/defensive issues right now for some reason.
But still. You can have all the talent in the world. If your coach sucks, you are screwed. Pens had to fire Therrien to finally win it all.

Without a good coach you are nothing. The parity in this league talentwise makes it a coaches league IMO. The days of the dynasty Avs who could have gotten by with a subpar coach are over for good.
Can't agree with this enough.

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Old
03-16-2013, 05:19 PM
  #568
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New good coach could make a huge difference. Just my IMO of course.

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Old
03-16-2013, 05:20 PM
  #569
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
It means to fret about.

My point is simple, he does us more good than harm and there are a dozen other players that deserve to be ridiculed first on this team. He can skate well for an enforcer and he is intimidating when on the ice. He is exactly the type of guy you want the Marchands, Clutterbucks and Shaws of this league to remember are on your team when they take a run at your star players.
Thanks but I know what it means.

More good than harm? He doesn't even play! He has no effect on the outcome of the games. Clutterbuck has been running around doing his usual thing in every game. He isn't going to fight Bordeleau and neither is Marchand. That's what McLeod is for.

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Old
03-16-2013, 05:22 PM
  #570
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Originally Posted by JoemAvs View Post
Disagree again. Coaching is such a big part. Yes every Av is playing the game for their whole lifes. But so have the opposing players. The difference is coaching. Just look around.
The Devils went from a good to great team under Lemaire to horrible under this one guy for one year only to make it back to the Stanley Cup the next year under a new coach.
What changed ? Basically only their coach.

Look at the Kings last year. They were worse than the Avs midway through the season. They could not score to save their lifes.
What happened? New coach. They still are not scoring that much but they improved enough to win it all.
Hell even look at the Leafs.
I still don't get how this mess of a team can hold a playoff spot right now. Maybe they will collapse again but Carlyle certainly made a huge impact.
Look at Washington. What happened after Boudreau? They absolutely crapped the bed.
Look at Anaheim. Carlyle was burnt out there. His methods got old. In comes Boudreau and now they are a Top 3 team again.
What about Montreal? They finished 28th last year IIRC.
Now they have a new coach and are a serious contender in the East.
What about Ottawa? They were putrid and only Anderson kept them from stealing Landeskog from us. What happened? New coach and now they are probably making the playoffs with their top two players being out for the season.
Look at what Trotz and Tippet do with a subpar roster. Babcock still holds Detroits roster together somehow without having much to work with besides 35 yr old Datsyuk and 3x year old Zetterberg.
Coaching is huge.

The effects of a coaching change can be shortlived like in Philly under Laviolette or in Tampa Bay under Boucher but both of those guys turned the respective teams around and they went very deep in the playoffs. Both have goaltending/defensive issues right now for some reason.
But still. You can have all the talent in the world. If your coach sucks, you are screwed. Pens had to fire Therrien to finally win it all.

Without a good coach you are nothing. The parity in this league talentwise makes it a coaches league IMO. The days of the dynasty Avs who could have gotten by with a subpar coach are over for good.
Best post.

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Old
03-16-2013, 05:23 PM
  #571
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I didn't even realize there was a game on today...

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03-16-2013, 05:24 PM
  #572
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Originally Posted by JoemAvs View Post
Disagree again. Coaching is such a big part. Yes every Av is playing the game for their whole lifes. But so have the opposing players. The difference is coaching. Just look around.
The Devils went from a good to great team under Lemaire to horrible under this one guy for one year only to make it back to the Stanley Cup the next year under a new coach.
What changed ? Basically only their coach.

Look at the Kings last year. They were worse than the Avs midway through the season. They could not score to save their lifes.
What happened? New coach. They still are not scoring that much but they improved enough to win it all.
Hell even look at the Leafs.
I still don't get how this mess of a team can hold a playoff spot right now. Maybe they will collapse again but Carlyle certainly made a huge impact.
Look at Washington. What happened after Boudreau? They absolutely crapped the bed.
Look at Anaheim. Carlyle was burnt out there. His methods got old. In comes Boudreau and now they are a Top 3 team again.
What about Montreal? They finished 28th last year IIRC.
Now they have a new coach and are a serious contender in the East.
What about Ottawa? They were putrid and only Anderson kept them from stealing Landeskog from us. What happened? New coach and now they are probably making the playoffs with their top two players being out for the season.
Look at what Trotz and Tippet do with a subpar roster. Babcock still holds Detroits roster together somehow without having much to work with besides 35 yr old Datsyuk and 3x year old Zetterberg.
Coaching is huge.

The effects of a coaching change can be shortlived like in Philly under Laviolette or in Tampa Bay under Boucher but both of those guys turned the respective teams around and they went very deep in the playoffs. Both have goaltending/defensive issues right now for some reason.
But still. You can have all the talent in the world. If your coach sucks, you are screwed. Pens had to fire Therrien to finally win it all.

Without a good coach you are nothing. The parity in this league talentwise makes it a coaches league IMO. The days of the dynasty Avs who could have gotten by with a subpar coach are over for good.
I want Sacco gone as much as the next guy and would love it if its as soon as tonight he's fired.

But you're using Coaching as an excuse way too much. Colorado made the playoffs under sacco once. Foote and Tucker held the team acocuntable.

The players play the game. Yes the other team has players who played their whole lives. But these things:

- bad line changes

-shooting it into the opposition in blocked areas where its clearly blocked before shooting.

-making low percentage plays

- turnovers

Does Sacco tell Shane O'rrBrien to play like he's Drew Doughty? Does Sacco tell Jones to be absolutely useless on the ice? Does Sacco tell Stastny to only show up in half the games played in a season? I could go on and on.

If Sacco does indeed tell his players to do those things, then yes, coaching is the main problem. And oh yeah forgot about Barry Trotz, the coach who's never taken his team to a western final. The coach who benches Radulov for two games who lead his team in scoring against Detroit in the first round. Yes, that coach.

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03-16-2013, 05:25 PM
  #573
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Oh totally, Jones is my clear cut #1 by a big margin, but getting Drouin or MacKinnon would also be amazing and should be discussed as well. I also do agree that the highest pick we will get is either 2 or 3 overall. Still think we are around a 9th place team overall.
Do you mean you think we will be picking 9th over all? Or just 9th worst, or (probably not this) 9th place in the west?

If Duchene & O'Reilly are our future at #1 & #2 (O'Reilly is the perfect #2 center IMO), Drouin has to be our pick with our two major needs being high end defense and wingers.

I personally also think Drouin is the better and more dynamic player, between him and Mackinnon. Mack will probably be a better goal scorer though.

Gawd a line of Drouin - Duchene - Parenteau would be amazing, they all can score and have very good play-making ability.

Do you think it's true that Mackinnon is that kind of one dimensional pure goal scorer? More apt to be selfish with the puck. From what I've seen of him and read in articles Mackinnon seems/sounds like Yakupov at center. Hardworking, reckless, and will always always shoot first, but not as creative.

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03-16-2013, 05:26 PM
  #574
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I doubt too many Avs fans will defend Sacco, but do you fire him now and put an interim replacement like Quinn or Army?

What if the team performs a bit better? Then you're in the position of sort of having to keep them.

Unless they hire Ruff or Roy, I'd rather just wait till the off season.

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03-16-2013, 05:27 PM
  #575
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I want Sacco gone as much as the next guy and would love it if its as soon as tonight he's fired.

But you're using Coaching as an excuse way too much. Colorado made the playoffs under sacco once. Foote and Tucker held the team acocuntable.

The players play the game. Yes the other team has players who played their whole lives. But these things:

- bad line changes

-shooting it into the opposition in blocked areas where its clearly blocked before shooting.

-making low percentage plays

- turnovers

Does Sacco tell Shane O'rrBrien to play like he's Drew Doughty? Does Sacco tell Jones to be absolutely useless on the ice? Does Sacco tell Stastny to only show up in half the games played in a season? I could go on and on.

If Sacco does indeed tell his players to do those things, then yes, coaching is the main problem.
If you actually believe any of this you clearly don't understand the purpose of a coach.

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