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Old
03-16-2013, 05:49 AM
  #351
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Originally Posted by bib View Post
I would love to see Gionta traded asap.

The longer we wait, the less return we'll get. What desperate, sucker teams are out there?

Maybe Florida, they signed Kovalev after all.
Gionta for Huberdeau

If you have to trade him, trade him at the draft to go up from one of our 2nd rounders to 18th-25th in the first round. Then you have free agency to fill the void, or if you are lucky, bring a big player.

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03-16-2013, 06:21 AM
  #352
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I think Gionta's traded, but trading Gionta is too risky when the team is in first place. You run a huge risk of causing locker room issues by trading a captain and well respected player, which can translate to losses on the ice.

The time to trade Gionta is in the offseason. Get more picks and/or prospects and then fill the hole through Free Agency. I would love to get a 2nd rounder for Gionta and then bring in Perry or Clarkson to replace Gionta. Another step in the right direction in building a difficult to play against team.

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03-16-2013, 06:41 AM
  #353
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Originally Posted by HabsSlappy View Post
I think Gionta's traded, but trading Gionta is too risky when the team is in first place. You run a huge risk of causing locker room issues by trading a captain and well respected player, which can translate to losses on the ice.

The time to trade Gionta is in the offseason. Get more picks and/or prospects and then fill the hole through Free Agency. I would love to get a 2nd rounder for Gionta and then bring in Perry or Clarkson to replace Gionta. Another step in the right direction in building a difficult to play against team.
I've got to laugh. Gionta IS difficult to play against! A two-way winger with speed who kills penalties and scores over 20 per year.

Mathieu Darche said this week that if the players had voted on the captain at the time that Gionta was chosen, they would have voted for Brian unanimously.

I would love to sign Gionta to an extension at a bit less money. Maybe go with the spirit of the CBA and have an agreement with the captain and his agent to sign one-year deals but with the intention of working out a new dollar amount each year and staying together as long as his legs hold up?

I would do the same with Markov, one-year renewals each year for market value. I think both these guys love to wear their letter on their uniform and are great role models for the younger players. If they are willing to accept less money, commensurate with their contributions, thus continuing to provide leadership while allowing the club to give more money to youngsters that are improving, why not? What Stanley Cup winning team does not have some good vets?

Marc Bergevin has said that he wants to breed the right culture. In my opinion, Gionta and Markov are PART OF that right culture. In yuears gone by, the Habs held on to Beliveau and Henri Richard and Jacques Laperriere until their retirement. True, there was no salary cap, but again, ** IF ** they are willing to take a reasonable salary and limit their contracts to one year at a time, it would be GREAT to have that continuity.... as long as the team is improving or at the top. The dumbest thing to do would be to finally GET that right culture, start winning consistently, and then throw it away by dumping respected veterans.

The club does not have to risk losing these guys for nothing. If Markov or Gionta does not sign their extension by Feb 1 of any given year, they can be traded at the deadline for a pick or prospect.


Last edited by BaseballCoach: 03-16-2013 at 06:56 AM.
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03-16-2013, 07:56 AM
  #354
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HabsSlappy View Post
I think Gionta's traded, but trading Gionta is too risky when the team is in first place. You run a huge risk of causing locker room issues by trading a captain and well respected player, which can translate to losses on the ice.

The time to trade Gionta is in the offseason. Get more picks and/or prospects and then fill the hole through Free Agency. I would love to get a 2nd rounder for Gionta and then bring in Perry or Clarkson to replace Gionta. Another step in the right direction in building a difficult to play against team.
I agree. NO WAY is our captain traded while we are this successful. NO WAY. if that is to be done it will be during off season. I still doubt that will happen. I don't think the demand for him is high.

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03-16-2013, 08:10 AM
  #355
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Gionta is fine. He's solid defensively, chipping in offensively. I was hard on him at the start of the year because the other lines weren't clicking and he wasn't stepping up. But now that we have 3 lines rolling and the Pleks line is back to playing top offensive competition, Gionta just has to play well defensively and chip in offensive. $5M was always too much, but it's not an albatross like Gomez was. I would even consider resigning Gionta, if he continues working hard and playing well on a "checking offensive" line with Pleks for $3M after his contract expires, if we don't have a better option..

Quote:
Originally Posted by bib View Post
I would love to see Gionta traded asap.

The longer we wait, the less return we'll get. What desperate, sucker teams are out there?

Maybe Florida, they signed Kovalev after all.
Yes, let's trade Gionta with Prust, Bourque and Ryder all injured.

Patch - DD - Gally
Galchy - Plek - Eller
Moen - Dumont - Leblanc
Blunden - White - Armstrong

awesome idea.

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03-16-2013, 08:48 AM
  #356
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Originally Posted by BaseballCoach View Post
I've got to laugh. Gionta IS difficult to play against! A two-way winger with speed who kills penalties and scores over 20 per year.

Mathieu Darche said this week that if the players had voted on the captain at the time that Gionta was chosen, they would have voted for Brian unanimously.

I would love to sign Gionta to an extension at a bit less money. Maybe go with the spirit of the CBA and have an agreement with the captain and his agent to sign one-year deals but with the intention of working out a new dollar amount each year and staying together as long as his legs hold up?

I would do the same with Markov, one-year renewals each year for market value. I think both these guys love to wear their letter on their uniform and are great role models for the younger players. If they are willing to accept less money, commensurate with their contributions, thus continuing to provide leadership while allowing the club to give more money to youngsters that are improving, why not? What Stanley Cup winning team does not have some good vets?

Marc Bergevin has said that he wants to breed the right culture. In my opinion, Gionta and Markov are PART OF that right culture. In yuears gone by, the Habs held on to Beliveau and Henri Richard and Jacques Laperriere until their retirement. True, there was no salary cap, but again, ** IF ** they are willing to take a reasonable salary and limit their contracts to one year at a time, it would be GREAT to have that continuity.... as long as the team is improving or at the top. The dumbest thing to do would be to finally GET that right culture, start winning consistently, and then throw it away by dumping respected veterans.

The club does not have to risk losing these guys for nothing. If Markov or Gionta does not sign their extension by Feb 1 of any given year, they can be traded at the deadline for a pick or prospect.
I am saying that we should trade Gionta in the off season for futures and replace him with Perry or Clarkson. If you don't think that either player, who is younger, nastier and brings just as much offense (or much more in the case of Perry) is not more difficult to play against, then I guess you have different hockey philosophies than myself.

CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER

FORWARDS
Max Pacioretty ($4.500m) / David Desharnais ($3.500m) / David Clarkson ($5.000m)
Rene Bourque ($3.333m) / Tomas Plekanec ($5.000m) / Corey Perry ($9.000m)
Alex Galchenyuk ($3.225m) / Lars Eller ($1.325m) / Brendan Gallagher ($0.870m)
Travis Moen ($1.850m) / Maxim Lapierre ($1.000m) / Brandon Prust ($2.500m)
Ryan White ($0.722m) / Gabriel Dumont ($0.578m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Andrei Markov ($5.750m) / Alexei Emelin ($2.000m)
Josh Gorges ($3.900m) / P.K. Subban ($2.875m)
Douglas Murray ($2.500m) / Raphael Diaz ($1.225m)
Jarred Tinordi ($1.083m) /
GOALTENDERS
Carey Price ($6.500m)
Peter Budaj ($1.150m)
OTHER
Buyout: Tomas Kaberle ($0.000m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $66,687,708; BONUSES: $2,697,500
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $309,792

That is a cup calibre team and it would fit under the cap and would very difficult to play against. The only difficulty would be finding a way to fit Markov and Subban in the 2014-15 season. But anything can be done if we get creative.

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03-16-2013, 09:11 AM
  #357
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HabsSlappy View Post
I am saying that we should trade Gionta in the off season for futures and replace him with Perry or Clarkson. If you don't think that either player, who is younger, nastier and brings just as much offense (or much more in the case of Perry) is not more difficult to play against, then I guess you have different hockey philosophies than myself.

CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER

FORWARDS
Max Pacioretty ($4.500m) / David Desharnais ($3.500m) / David Clarkson ($5.000m)
Rene Bourque ($3.333m) / Tomas Plekanec ($5.000m) / Corey Perry ($9.000m)
Alex Galchenyuk ($3.225m) / Lars Eller ($1.325m) / Brendan Gallagher ($0.870m)
Travis Moen ($1.850m) / Maxim Lapierre ($1.000m) / Brandon Prust ($2.500m)
Ryan White ($0.722m) / Gabriel Dumont ($0.578m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Andrei Markov ($5.750m) / Alexei Emelin ($2.000m)
Josh Gorges ($3.900m) / P.K. Subban ($2.875m)
Douglas Murray ($2.500m) / Raphael Diaz ($1.225m)
Jarred Tinordi ($1.083m) /
GOALTENDERS
Carey Price ($6.500m)
Peter Budaj ($1.150m)
OTHER
Buyout: Tomas Kaberle ($0.000m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $66,687,708; BONUSES: $2,697,500
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $309,792

That is a cup calibre team and it would fit under the cap and would very difficult to play against. The only difficulty would be finding a way to fit Markov and Subban in the 2014-15 season. But anything can be done if we get creative.
You mean Markov, Subban, Diaz, Emelin, Eller...

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Old
03-16-2013, 05:03 PM
  #358
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Originally Posted by HawkeyeCB View Post
You mean Markov, Subban, Diaz, Emelin, Eller...
True...But maybe the cap will go up and it won't be an issue. Either way, load up and go for a cup run. Deal with the cap issues in the offseason. There are always ways to shed salary and we should have youngsters knocking on the door to give some cap relief.

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03-16-2013, 05:08 PM
  #359
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Still not my captain... still not a Gionta fan, either.
Not your captain? What number do you wear, or do you still need a ticket to get into the Bell Centre?

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03-16-2013, 05:27 PM
  #360
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I would move Gionta when the injured forwards get back. Provide could get a good draft pick in return.

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03-16-2013, 05:35 PM
  #361
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bib View Post
I would love to see Gionta traded asap.

The longer we wait, the less return we'll get. What desperate, sucker teams are out there?

Maybe Florida, they signed Kovalev after all.
Yeah I'm sure the Panthers are quite eager to pass the chance on drafting Jones, Drouin or Mackinnon.

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03-16-2013, 05:46 PM
  #362
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Although Gionta has had his troubles he has done his part to help the team to this point. Near the start of the year he was creating many powerplays because of his speed but didn't put up much points. Lately he's picked it up with the goals. But overall I believe new management are going to put their stamp on this team and decide if he is in the plans going forward like everyone else

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03-16-2013, 05:46 PM
  #363
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Yeah I'm sure the Panthers are quite eager to pass the chance on drafting Jones, Drouin or Mackinnon.
Implying that Gionta will affect any team with any tangible positive contribution - much less an offensively starved team like the Panthers. Gionta's a supporting cast player at best, paid like a middling first liner and treated like a star.

He's inconsistent and has zero-offensive vision. He's a work horse and tenacious defensively but he's small and puts us at a disadvantage all the time - I sincerely hope we can jettison him off to some team if we pick up some UFA winger before next season. Sick of him bringing down the Pleks line...

THAT SAID, he had two good games in a row so maybe it's a mini-surge? Who knows. He's a bit like Gomez, he looks like he's trying but something is clearly missing in his toolbox.

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03-16-2013, 05:53 PM
  #364
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Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
Implying that Gionta will affect any team with any tangible positive contribution - much less an offensively starved team like the Panthers. Gionta's a supporting cast player at best, paid like a middling first liner and treated like a star.

He's inconsistent and has zero-offensive vision. He's a work horse and tenacious defensively but he's small and puts us at a disadvantage all the time - I sincerely hope we can jettison him off to some team if we pick up some UFA winger before next season. Sick of him bringing down the Pleks line...

THAT SAID, he had two good games in a row so maybe it's a mini-surge? Who knows. He's a bit like Gomez, he looks like he's trying but something is clearly missing in his toolbox.
We're just not watching the same games, or maybe I'm watching them without too much whiskey in me.

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03-16-2013, 06:21 PM
  #365
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We're just not watching the same games, or maybe I'm watching them without too much whiskey in me.
So does he have good playmaking abilities?
Is he a consistent scorer?
Is he not good defensively?
Does he not have good work ethic?
Is he not 5'7' and 174lbs?

What am I wrong on man?

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03-16-2013, 06:26 PM
  #366
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Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
Implying that Gionta will affect any team with any tangible positive contribution - much less an offensively starved team like the Panthers. Gionta's a supporting cast player at best, paid like a middling first liner and treated like a star.

He's inconsistent and has zero-offensive vision. He's a work horse and tenacious defensively but he's small and puts us at a disadvantage all the time - I sincerely hope we can jettison him off to some team if we pick up some UFA winger before next season. Sick of him bringing down the Pleks line...

THAT SAID, he had two good games in a row so maybe it's a mini-surge? Who knows. He's a bit like Gomez, he looks like he's trying but something is clearly missing in his toolbox.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
What am I wrong on man?
That he can't make a tangible positive contribution.
That he's inconsistent
That he has zero offensive vision
That he puts the team at a disadvantage ALL the time
That he brings down the Plekanec line
That he is just like Gomez - only "looks like" he is trying


Last edited by BaseballCoach: 03-16-2013 at 06:38 PM.
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03-16-2013, 06:41 PM
  #367
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Originally Posted by HabsSlappy View Post
I am saying that we should trade Gionta in the off season for futures and replace him with Perry or Clarkson. If you don't think that either player, who is younger, nastier and brings just as much offense (or much more in the case of Perry) is not more difficult to play against, then I guess you have different hockey philosophies than myself.
The chances of landing a free agent you want are about 1/10. The chances of landing the TWO free agents you want are about 1/100.

Your CapGeek experiment showed that we can keep Gionta and just ADD either Perry or Clarkson and still have cap space. In fact, if we add Clarkson, we can go after another player for about $5M as well, perhaps for the D.

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03-17-2013, 03:50 AM
  #368
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Could we get a first round pick for Gionta? What's his trade value? When injured bodies get back we have depth in 6-9th forwards. Hot Stove said last night price is high in trade market now because so many teams in it this year. Maybe something great out there? Give Gionta's 5 million to Clarkson in off season? He'll replace Gionta's 20 goals but give us a little toughness

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03-17-2013, 04:23 AM
  #369
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Slim to none he gets traded this year but could definitely see him being shopped around in the offseason.

Of all the top 9 forwards we have, he's my first to go. I don't hate him but he can be infuriating at times. He's not the water bug player he was in his first year with us.

The good thing is he's putting up decent enough numbers where we could get something of value.

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03-17-2013, 07:43 AM
  #370
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It would be a dumb move to trade him this year unless someone ridiculously overpaid.

We're first in the east, he's our captain, and depth for the playoffs is huge.

When we're healthy, Prust is on the 4th line with Moen and Army. One injury, and it's not a big deal, because Prust is better than a lot of 3rd liners in the league.

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03-17-2013, 07:53 AM
  #371
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Slim to none he gets traded this year but could definitely see him being shopped around in the offseason.

Of all the top 9 forwards we have, he's my first to go. I don't hate him but he can be infuriating at times. He's not the water bug player he was in his first year with us.

The good thing is he's putting up decent enough numbers where we could get something of value.
I feel the same as you do here. You so smart.

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03-17-2013, 09:21 AM
  #372
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Originally Posted by BaseballCoach View Post
That he can't make a tangible positive contribution.
That he's inconsistent
That he has zero offensive vision
That he puts the team at a disadvantage ALL the time
That he brings down the Plekanec line
That he is just like Gomez - only "looks like" he is trying
1) His production is middling for a 2nd liner at best and he gets significant PP time and gets to play with our best centreman. I say his offensive contribution, taking in account opportunity cost, is not positive.
2) He is inconsistent, I don't know how you can disagree. Look at his game logs.
3) He does not make plays beyond the occasional drop pass. I don't know how you can disagree with this.
4) His contract is a drag, his position next to our top centreman is a drag, the fact that he cannot fight his own battles is a big drag (see: Moen and Tinordi having to stick up for him last night)
5) see 1, 2
6) It reminds me of Gomez. The feet are moving, the effort is there but the offense is inconsistent and unreliable.

It's a matter of taste I guess.

I don't want to dump him for a bag of pucks or anything but if we're looking to upgrade anything for next season, he'd be the first player I'd look at moving.

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03-17-2013, 12:53 PM
  #373
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Slim to none he gets traded this year but could definitely see him being shopped around in the offseason.

Of all the top 9 forwards we have, he's my first to go. I don't hate him but he can be infuriating at times. He's not the water bug player he was in his first year with us.

The good thing is he's putting up decent enough numbers where we could get something of value.
Right on...I would move him over the summer though. Possibly to a team who struck out on the free agent market. He's our oldest and we have a bit of depth.

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03-17-2013, 03:07 PM
  #374
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Right on...I would move him over the summer though. Possibly to a team who struck out on the free agent market. He's our oldest and we have a bit of depth.
A lot of people are taking this approach and I don't get it.

Marc Bergevin, and even Geoff Molson, have said they want to instill a winning culture, restore the tradition of the Montreal Canadiens.

Jean Beliveau slowed down a bit, then eventually retired. Henri Richard, the same. Yvan Cournoyer got hurt more towards the end, but retired a Hab. Bob Gainey too. Serge Savard retired then changed his mind to play for Winnipeg after the Habs moved on.

If the team succeeds in inculcating a winning culture, then I want the captain to stay. SInce we live in a cap world, that means him accepting a lower contract when this one runs out, if that is what it takes to have a proper cap hit. But so long as they are willing to price themselves at or below market, I would like to see Markov and Gionta stay on, year to year, for as long as both sides are happy.

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03-17-2013, 06:16 PM
  #375
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Jean Beliveau slowed down a bit, then eventually retired. Henri Richard, the same. Yvan Cournoyer got hurt more towards the end, but retired a Hab. Bob Gainey too. Serge Savard retired then changed his mind to play for Winnipeg after the Habs moved on.
Are you seriously comparing Gionta to those guys? Litteraly all of those guys have gotten their jersey removed*... they brought so much more than Gionta ever will. If anything, Gionta will finish his contract here in Montreal IF Bergevin wants him to, otherwise, he's not part of the future.

*The only one I'm still wondering why he got his jersey removed is Gainey.

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