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Rangers @ Penguins 3/16/13 - Manbearpig Strikes Again

View Poll Results: Player of the Game?
Henrik Lundqvist? lol jk 19 20.21%
Everyone else? lol jk 5 5.32%
Manbearpig 70 74.47%
Voters: 94. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
03-16-2013, 06:05 PM
  #276
bubba5
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Glad we got rid of the waste of space Krieder, he was killing this teams chemistry and offense.

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Old
03-16-2013, 06:08 PM
  #277
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorado View Post
Brad Richards is single handedly killing this team. He is not even a good. 3C At this point. I've always liked Gaborik and he's produced. I have mentioned
CALLY
Hags
Step
Nash
Kreider
Hopefully a few of either FASTH , Lindbergh , Thomas , MILLER can be NHL players and produce .
We are WEAK AT CENTER . I am not anti everything but the make up and game plan is horrible . Richards needs to be a 1C or at least a 2c . He is the single reason we suck so bad it trickles down the entire line up . As for our D . They are not tough enough and can't move the puck well or they are being good not too . We could use at least 2 new centers ( I like JT but he's not ready ) and a legit puck mover . None of our D men shoot well either .
I am in general agreement with this, though while I agree Miller will benefit with more experience --- he's trying to do too much --- he obviously has the ability to play and contribute meaningfully even at this early juncture.

A few points:
My detractors, please kindly bend, buckle and break to the fact that while I have made mistakes, I have been correct about a lot of things, and until those things get addressed by Rangers for real, they will continue to suffer, not in abstract, but for real, and we with them.

1. OVERRIDING. Torts must go. NOW.
Torts was supposedly "safe is death" back in year 1. But instead of being the best of the old Canadiens, the Yankees of the NHL, where there was a fluid, moving, pressing offense with decent checking and skilled shooters, we now have the morass there is. We have a world class G. By all means don't leave him hanging out to dry with stupid or excessive risks, but do take prudent risks. Instead of maximizing our D, we ask Girardi to eat pucks, and when he is injured, we are surprised. And the constant shot blocking leads to killing offense, injuries, exhaustion, defense actually falling out of place on follow throughs to given plays.

Yes, I want someone who will get them in top shape and play hard, but no I don't want another Keenan where the talent is ridden to hard for too long.


2 OVERRIDING. NO SACRED COWS --- Part 1, add talent
Yes we are good, we are very good, and we are entitled to enjoy that fact, but it also OVERRIDING reality we need to get better. We do that by making moves NOT by standing pat. THAT does NOT mean we make a trade for sake of a trade. But it DOES mean we understand and acknowledge the priority of adding net talent over other concerns.

Yes, balance is nice, and even important, but adding talent IS CRITICAL.
Accordingly, when we have a chance to move Boyle for Dylan Olsen + a generous 4th, we don't say to Chicago, no, it'd be a no brainer if he were righty, you admit Olsen, a later first ready to play D now, is important for us as a McIlrath lite to add grit now on the bottom pair, and we move MDZ to 2nd pair to make that happen.


3 OVERRIDING. NO SACRED COWS --- Part 2, flexibility for the big picture
This is a process. It is not an isolated photograph snapshot. It is a moving picture of multiple snapshots run quickly one after the other. Therefore, using the above scenario as an example, we do NOT say, we don't add Olsen cause we already have Staal, McD, MDZ, we say we add Olsen, and we have not only injury insurance, but planning flexibility to move Staal, if we eventually have to, for a good deal.

4. Stop with idiocy of "win now" Try to win every year.
We need to constantly add, even we are at the top. Look at Chicago, add, develop, add. Have an off year at G, make the best of it. Now they have abundance of riches.

No reason we can't do that. Develop every year.
Getting one special piece to put us over the top has to be a unique situation, not a regular policy.


CONSIDER BEYOND OBVIOUS POSSIBILITIES not overriding, but requires an open mind
Kreider can/should be here, simultaneously crapping the place but also making great plays. He has the skill to be truly great --- I wouldn't say elite yet, but certainly star echelon. I likewise called Miller, who is also crapping all over while playing his heart out productively.

These are special players. I had the insight to see these guys could be available sooner than later, and 90+% of you said, no, couldn't happen, etc. You said that just because it was written in stone as conventional wisdom that it should take more time, it was impossible for Miller particularly to be here this year.

You suffer from your own lack of vision and creativity, it shows, and you reap what you sow.

-----------

The great majority of most of you have a polite difference of opinion with me, and I respectfully ask you all to help me come up with improved visions and better strategies for our beloved Rangers in an ongoing honest discussion. Obviously the current state of this team, being a disaster, is painful.

WE DO THAT BY HONESTLY HAVING AN OPEN COMPETITION OF IDEAS.

A handful of you are arrogant, you know who you are. Your guttersniping is tiring, and ultimately shows little.


--------------

And now for something almost completely different.
Simply because I have not gone for enough into the powderkeg with a lit match by means of the above, let me add one new thought.

Kreider has not had enough time to be fully ready, this I agree.
However, if we eliminate the immediate issue of Torts all over his ass constantly, and get him back to playing without overly thinking about it, I see CK up here now.

Don't worry about saving this season, we have an up climb vs, at minimum, the Pens and the Black Hawks, whatever happens will happen.

CK should be up here, getting special tutelage, and working extra shifts.
But I think we should also give him a chance at C

This is not necessarily a permanent move. My understanding is his early history was more C than W. Granted, this is a huge leap to a pro game. But he may be more comfortable with it.

I would ultimately like to play Kreider wherever out best interests are served.
But given we are thin at C, including w/issues about Richards, having a 1 or 2 year experiment with a kid who is just 20ish will not kill him. It may broaden his perspectives,

And this need not be a 100% dedicated shifting of position.
Just give him enough extra shifts between Hagelin and Nash to see if that ignites anything, and relieves the other lines of minutes it has to fill.

I'm back to the real world.
Sorry to unintentionally but I am disgusted, and the truth must be told.

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Old
03-16-2013, 06:14 PM
  #278
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Suggestions for replacements? Or do we continue to go about it "the Ranger way" and not think about the future? Instant gratification = Torts' head on a platter.

Then?

Let the chips fall where they may I guess.
I don't know the coaching business well enough to say who replaces him and that's Glen's job to find a suitable coach. torts was suitable for the team we had years ago but now it's time to get a coach that knows how to make a team fire on all cylinders.

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Old
03-16-2013, 06:17 PM
  #279
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Originally Posted by JCresty View Post
I don't know the coaching business well enough to say who replaces him and that's Glen's job to find a suitable coach. torts was suitable for the team we had years ago but now it's time to get a coach that knows how to make a team fire on all cylinders.
Thats an honest answer.

Not knowing much about the coaching business isn't stopping you and a lot of other fans from calling for the head of the current coach with no feasible plan forward, however.

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Old
03-16-2013, 06:20 PM
  #280
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Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
I am in general agreement with this, though while I agree Miller will benefit with more experience --- he's trying to do too much --- he obviously has the ability to play and contribute meaningfully even at this early juncture.

A few points:
My detractors, please kindly bend, buckle and break to the fact that while I have made mistakes, I have been correct about a lot of things, and until those things get addressed by Rangers for real, they will continue to suffer, not in abstract, but for real, and we with them.

1. OVERRIDING. Torts must go. NOW.
Torts was supposedly "safe is death" back in year 1. But instead of being the best of the old Canadiens, the Yankees of the NHL, where there was a fluid, moving, pressing offense with decent checking and skilled shooters, we now have the morass there is. We have a world class G. By all means don't leave him hanging out to dry with stupid or excessive risks, but do take prudent risks. Instead of maximizing our D, we ask Girardi to eat pucks, and when he is injured, we are surprised. And the constant shot blocking leads to killing offense, injuries, exhaustion, defense actually falling out of place on follow throughs to given plays.

Yes, I want someone who will get them in top shape and play hard, but no I don't want another Keenan where the talent is ridden to hard for too long.


2 OVERRIDING. NO SACRED COWS --- Part 1, add talent
Yes we are good, we are very good, and we are entitled to enjoy that fact, but it also OVERRIDING reality we need to get better. We do that by making moves NOT by standing pat. THAT does NOT mean we make a trade for sake of a trade. But it DOES mean we understand and acknowledge the priority of adding net talent over other concerns.

Yes, balance is nice, and even important, but adding talent IS CRITICAL.
Accordingly, when we have a chance to move Boyle for Dylan Olsen + a generous 4th, we don't say to Chicago, no, it'd be a no brainer if he were righty, you admit Olsen, a later first ready to play D now, is important for us as a McIlrath lite to add grit now on the bottom pair, and we move MDZ to 2nd pair to make that happen.


3 OVERRIDING. NO SACRED COWS --- Part 2, flexibility for the big picture
This is a process. It is not an isolated photograph snapshot. It is a moving picture of multiple snapshots run quickly one after the other. Therefore, using the above scenario as an example, we do NOT say, we don't add Olsen cause we already have Staal, McD, MDZ, we say we add Olsen, and we have not only injury insurance, but planning flexibility to move Staal, if we eventually have to, for a good deal.

4. Stop with idiocy of "win now" Try to win every year.
We need to constantly add, even we are at the top. Look at Chicago, add, develop, add. Have an off year at G, make the best of it. Now they have abundance of riches.

No reason we can't do that. Develop every year.
Getting one special piece to put us over the top has to be a unique situation, not a regular policy.


CONSIDER BEYOND OBVIOUS POSSIBILITIES not overriding, but requires an open mind
Kreider can/should be here, simultaneously crapping the place but also making great plays. He has the skill to be truly great --- I wouldn't say elite yet, but certainly star echelon. I likewise called Miller, who is also crapping all over while playing his heart out productively.

These are special players. I had the insight to see these guys could be available sooner than later, and 90+% of you said, no, couldn't happen, etc. You said that just because it was written in stone as conventional wisdom that it should take more time, it was impossible for Miller particularly to be here this year.

You suffer from your own lack of vision and creativity, it shows, and you reap what you sow.

-----------

The great majority of most of you have a polite difference of opinion with me, and I respectfully ask you all to help me come up with improved visions and better strategies for our beloved Rangers in an ongoing honest discussion. Obviously the current state of this team, being a disaster, is painful.

WE DO THAT BY HONESTLY HAVING AN OPEN COMPETITION OF IDEAS.

A handful of you are arrogant, you know who you are. Your guttersniping is tiring, and ultimately shows little.


--------------

And now for something almost completely different.
Simply because I have not gone for enough into the powderkeg with a lit match by means of the above, let me add one new thought.

Kreider has not had enough time to be fully ready, this I agree.
However, if we eliminate the immediate issue of Torts all over his ass constantly, and get him back to playing without overly thinking about it, I see CK up here now.

Don't worry about saving this season, we have an up climb vs, at minimum, the Pens and the Black Hawks, whatever happens will happen.

CK should be up here, getting special tutelage, and working extra shifts.
But I think we should also give him a chance at C

This is not necessarily a permanent move. My understanding is his early history was more C than W. Granted, this is a huge leap to a pro game. But he may be more comfortable with it.

I would ultimately like to play Kreider wherever out best interests are served.
But given we are thin at C, including w/issues about Richards, having a 1 or 2 year experiment with a kid who is just 20ish will not kill him. It may broaden his perspectives,

And this need not be a 100% dedicated shifting of position.
Just give him enough extra shifts between Hagelin and Nash to see if that ignites anything, and relieves the other lines of minutes it has to fill.

I'm back to the real world.
Sorry to unintentionally but I am disgusted, and the truth must be told.
Great post .

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Old
03-16-2013, 06:23 PM
  #281
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Lot's of stuff
I agree with the majority of this. I find it odd that Ranger seems to go through much bigger trough to peak waves then other clubs. I understand that some of this is because even in the dark days we were always pushing for that #8 spot and thus didn't get high draft picks (or drafted Jessiman), but there's more it than just draft position and it is something the organisation really needs to look at.

Not sure about the Kreider to C, has he played there before. Think he'd be better off learning the game at his natural position. Do agree he needs to be called back up, it looks like he's re-found his scoring touch in the AHL and this team needs a new look

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Old
03-16-2013, 07:01 PM
  #282
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Thats an honest answer.

Not knowing much about the coaching business isn't stopping you and a lot of other fans from calling for the head of the current coach with no feasible plan forward, however.
I don't think the lack of inside knowledge on the coaching business should stop anyone because the only thing we need to know is how much Torts has struggled with this roster from day 1. You can argue it's training camp this training camp that but we're 26 games in and if you can't find it 26 in then you probably won't find it at all. There are too many mistakes that we can point to for him to fix all of them especially since he hasn't fixed anything since calling out his own players during the BUF post game. He's said the same thing 12 times now. Energy, motivation etc. etc. and the team finding "it". Do you think this team young players and veterans are struggling with their compete level especially as they're floating around 9th/10th? Do you think the guys that went to the ECF last year are having a hard time finding motivation? Henrik Lundqvist, Rick Nash wants to be there more than anything else. When you're the coach and you have a hands off approach on a previously 9.0% PP and blame motivation and compete levels after losses and fail to check yourself and what you're doing as a coach with important responsibilities, it damages the faith the team has in you. Coaches aren't suppose to be scary. THey're suppose to motivate and bind with the team to better communicate. He knows how to push but when all you can do is push the players, there will come a time when they refused to be pushed because they don't have faith in your system especially when you chalk up losses to the lack of compete level and fail to change up the team's lineups, dynamics, strategy.

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Old
03-16-2013, 07:07 PM
  #283
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I'm gonna watch last year's Winter Classic tomorrow. A distant memory but a nice one.

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03-16-2013, 07:09 PM
  #284
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I don't think I've missed anything by missing another embarrassment today. When is he gonna go? Sick and tired of this gabage. Aren't you????

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Old
03-16-2013, 07:17 PM
  #285
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Sometimes you just gotta fire a coach. Coaches have been fired for less.

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Old
03-16-2013, 07:22 PM
  #286
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Missed the game... AGAIN...

Someone please break the game down??

Something's gotta give. I love Torts, but he may not be the answer towards this crew. Where's Richie and Gaborik? Those players shouldn't need a coach to light them up. They're professionals.

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03-16-2013, 07:22 PM
  #287
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Let's trade Gaborik for Anisimov and Dubinsky.

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Old
03-16-2013, 07:31 PM
  #288
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So wait. You mean to tell me that the dump and chase approach didn't work YET AGAIN?

OMGZ

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03-16-2013, 07:39 PM
  #289
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Missed the game... AGAIN...

Someone please break the game down??

Something's gotta give. I love Torts, but he may not be the answer towards this crew. Where's Richie and Gaborik? Those players shouldn't need a coach to light them up. They're professionals.
Breakdown:

They're a shell of last year's team and they suck.

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03-16-2013, 07:40 PM
  #290
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Suggestions for replacements? Or do we continue to go about it "the Ranger way" and not think about the future? Instant gratification = Torts' head on a platter.

Then?

Let the chips fall where they may I guess.
Outside the box for a Head Coach. Who cares if this is NY. We need a new approach to playing the game. I joked about it a few days ago, but I think that someone that knows how to run a PP may be able to come in and instill an actual offensive scheme.

The guy I like for the job is Joe Mullen. It doesn't even have to be Mullen, but someone that understands the offensive side of the game.

Torts and Sully have to go

Then get rid of Gaborik, Richards, Powe, Halpern, Pyatt and Boyle.

Use the savings from the Gaborik and Richards deals to lock up our RFA's and replace some of the names above with Kreider, Thomas, Fast and Lindberg.

We're not going to be any worse with the kids in the line up than we are right now.

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03-16-2013, 07:40 PM
  #291
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Say hello to 10th place boys!! Isles are up 3-0 on Florida and will be AHEAD OF US in an hour!

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03-16-2013, 07:40 PM
  #292
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So wait. You mean to tell me that the dump and chase approach didn't work YET AGAIN?

OMGZ
Instead some brutal turnovers in the neutral zone trying to make plays didnt work. So strange.

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03-16-2013, 07:41 PM
  #293
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And Tortorella is still here!

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03-16-2013, 07:42 PM
  #294
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Instead some brutal turnovers in the neutral zone trying to make plays didnt work. So strange.
maybe cause they are not used to it.

Don't think a change in approach mid season is going to work game one without practices.

nice try

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Old
03-16-2013, 07:44 PM
  #295
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Say hello to 10th place boys!! Isles are up 3-0 on Florida and will be AHEAD OF US in an hour!
This team really is a joke. Damn.

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03-16-2013, 07:50 PM
  #296
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Instead some brutal turnovers in the neutral zone trying to make plays didnt work. So strange.
Yeah, this was the problem. They would have been better off playing this impossibly shallow dump and chase system that people harp on.

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03-16-2013, 07:52 PM
  #297
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"I am a NY Ranger. I am hot ****. I only need to give my 20% to succeed. They have me on shows called 'Beginnings,' so you know I am the real deal."
really ****ing pissed off at the effort today. wtf was that???!!!

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03-16-2013, 07:56 PM
  #298
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really ****ing pissed off at the effort today. wtf was that???!!!
The players try/care, they're just not that good.

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03-16-2013, 08:06 PM
  #299
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The issue with motivation and collected play imo (my facebook status):

The New York Rangers themselves don't feel like The New York Rangers. Too much of what was the core of last year is now gone. They need to find a new identity, a new sense of who they are and why they're a great team. These will be new reason and different reasons from last year and they need a coach who is willing to give them that opportunity. The pieces are there to win a championship but the Rangers have to bring out of themselves a championship winning team mentality.

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03-16-2013, 08:06 PM
  #300
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PJ Stock Just said the Rangers have tuned Torts out and nothing will change for the better.

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