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** Official 2013 Fire Sacco Thread: Part 1 **

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Old
03-15-2013, 09:47 AM
  #626
Bender
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AslanRH View Post
WHY SHERMAN SHOULD NOT FIRE SACCO UNTIL THIS SEASON ENDS

Unless Sakic is willing to coach on an interim basis (which I doubt: could he sit Hejduk if needed?) Sacco has to stay.
1) Who will coach the rest of the year? If its Quinn or Army, and the Avs go on a run or at least show improvement, it opens the door for that coach to stay on for next year.
2) Better to see who all the available options are this summer. This team needs a coach with some experience in the NHL. I know many want Roy, but he'll want too much player control, and I'm not a fan of one person being the Coach and GM of a team in any sport.
3) Very unlikely that the Avs make the playoffs even if they go on a run, so no point in the upheaval, when worst case scenario is the team tanks for another month and a half.

JMO, but I think Sacco stays til after the last game, but I bet he's gone before the ice melts.
With only 22 games left in the season and the record we currently have, he won't be fired for sure. It would be a classic 'shoot yourself in the foot'. We'd likely improve and go on a bit of a run but I doubt very much that we'd be able to go on a 15-7 run, that's pretty unlikely. That would likely make us miss the playoffs but 4-8 points and we'd end with the 13th overall pick or something like that. Might as well stick it out for another 22 games and get a much better prize.

As far as Roy and his 'too much player control', how do you know how much control he wants? I've always imagined that he wants 'his say' and be part of player decisions along with the GM, not necessarily take the decisions for the GM. I believe it can work ESPECIALLY if you've established your core of players moving forward and most of the decisions that need to be made are on complimentary & depth guys.

Put it this way, if Roy wants too much player control, I doubt very much that he'll be a head coach in the NHL. The GM/HC combo is a thing of the past.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
Disclaimer: I have no idea how good a coach Quinn is. He might be a superb coach.

With that out of the way, I'm not sure firing Sacco and naming Quinn interim coach is a good idea. It tends to lock the organization into that coach if he only does ok rest of the way (Richards, Capuano etc) and you don't explore other options going forward but make the interim coach the head coach next season.

There are a lot of AHL coaches that seem to combine the best of modern and traditional coaching. Demanding but without a lot of the mind games old school coaches love. Dallas Eakins and Jon Cooper are two examples of coaches like that. If we're going to get a new coach (which seems all but inevitable at this stage) I'd like Avs to explore all options and not just the lowest hanging fruit.
I absolutely agree with you. Personally though, I still firmly believe that the replacement choice is already made.


Last edited by Bender: 03-15-2013 at 09:53 AM.
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03-15-2013, 09:57 AM
  #627
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Keeping Sacco until end of the season is a mistake. With organization rules that we use coaches from within it's much better to give Quinn interim coach now and see if he is capable of running this team. If not we look for other options during off-season. If Sacco is fired after the season and Quinn is our next coach and he fails it means another blown season. I don't think AVS have such luxury. Next season is crucial for this organization if they didn't qualify for playoffs they may be medicore team for many years and no top-class UFA signs here.

So Fire Sacco now and try something else.

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03-15-2013, 10:12 AM
  #628
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Damn. Woke up. Saw this and thought Sacco got canned....back to sleep.

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Old
03-15-2013, 10:18 AM
  #629
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raistlin76 View Post
Keeping Sacco until end of the season is a mistake. With organization rules that we use coaches from within it's much better to give Quinn interim coach now and see if he is capable of running this team. If not we look for other options during off-season. If Sacco is fired after the season and Quinn is our next coach and he fails it means another blown season. I don't think AVS have such luxury. Next season is crucial for this organization if they didn't qualify for playoffs they may be medicore team for many years and no top-class UFA signs here.

So Fire Sacco now and try something else.
What you say makes sense but this won't happen because of the chance to draft and add another top flight player to our lineup. ANY coaching change would likely see us improve our standing and worsen our draft position significantly.

Firing Sacco should have happened a long time ago and a good 5-7 games ago for any chance at the playoffs THIS season.

Besides, I doubt very much that Quinn will be given the chance to coach the Avs. I think he'll end up taking the BU job.

I will predict that maybe for the first time ever, our NEW COACH will bring in his own assistants. It's a perfect time to really wipe the slate clean and start new with a whole new coaching staff.

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03-15-2013, 11:28 AM
  #630
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Originally Posted by Bender View Post
What you say makes sense but this won't happen because of the chance to draft and add another top flight player to our lineup. ANY coaching change would likely see us improve our standing and worsen our draft position significantly.

Firing Sacco should have happened a long time ago and a good 5-7 games ago for any chance at the playoffs THIS season.

Besides, I doubt very much that Quinn will be given the chance to coach the Avs. I think he'll end up taking the BU job.

I will predict that maybe for the first time ever, our NEW COACH will bring in his own assistants. It's a perfect time to really wipe the slate clean and start new with a whole new coaching staff.
God I hope so but with PL still affiliated with the Avs I feel its going to be SSDD (SAME $#!+ DIFFERENT DAY)

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Old
03-15-2013, 11:29 AM
  #631
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bender View Post
As far as Roy and his 'too much player control', how do you know how much control he wants? I've always imagined that he wants 'his say' and be part of player decisions along with the GM, not necessarily take the decisions for the GM. I believe it can work ESPECIALLY if you've established your core of players moving forward and most of the decisions that need to be made are on complimentary & depth guys.

Put it this way, if Roy wants too much player control, I doubt very much that he'll be a head coach in the NHL. The GM/HC combo is a thing of the past.
I was just basing my opinion on the rumors from the last time Roy was discussed before Sacco. Sounded he was aiming for GM/HC. I think all coaches should have input, but not have the added responsibility of the GM duties.

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03-15-2013, 01:07 PM
  #632
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This was a comment Dater's article in the DP. I don't know if it was somebody from here that posted it, but I thought it was spot on.

Quote:
The only thing that is unacceptable here is that Sacco would come out and say, "I don't know what the reason was, I don't have an answer for you." He shouldn't even be thinking that, much less saying it.

I know what the reason is - you have two defensemen diving to the ice at every shot instead of playing the man - you have no idea how to get players lined up in the circles as an out for a puck tied on the boards - you have one horrible idea for trying to get the puck over the blue line, skate, drop pass, cross ice, that everyone else has already figured out how to steal - you have no business coaching in the NHL, no imagination, no analytical skills, and are the keystone AHL problem with this NHL team.

Whoever is responsible for the notorious Avs organization grudge (Lacroix, Sherman, Kronke?) needs to be a man and retire, get fired, or step away. This team needs to move on, and when we can't even attract a decent NHL level coach because organizations like Calgary are full of ex-coaches that the Avs have ticked off, it's past time to realize the problem isn't them, ITS YOU.

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03-15-2013, 01:12 PM
  #633
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Originally Posted by AslanRH View Post
I was just basing my opinion on the rumors from the last time Roy was discussed before Sacco. Sounded he was aiming for GM/HC. I think all coaches should have input, but not have the added responsibility of the GM duties.
Roy would in charge of the Hockey operations side of the business. He would have an assistant that would do lots of the day to day GM duties. My guess is that Sherman probably would have been Roy's assistant if Roy did take the job. The GM title has not made sense for Sherman since day 1, and it still doesn't. He knows nothing about hockey. He makes business decisions, and negotiates. Hockey operations makes all the hockey related decisions for the Avs.

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03-16-2013, 07:55 PM
  #634
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Honestly I can easily see a Jim Harbaugh effect on the Avs once Sacco is gone. As a Niners fan, Sacco reminds me a lot of the Singletary era. Singletary got by being mediocre strictly because of the talent of the team, not because he was a good coach. Only thing Singletary offered as a coach was motivation, but that wore thin on the players once they realized that motivation doesn't win football games when the other team outsmarts you.

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03-16-2013, 08:28 PM
  #635
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Originally Posted by landesberg View Post
Honestly I can easily see a Jim Harbaugh effect on the Avs once Sacco is gone. As a Niners fan, Sacco reminds me a lot of the Singletary era. Singletary got by being mediocre strictly because of the talent of the team, not because he was a good coach. Only thing Singletary offered as a coach was motivation, but that wore thin on the players once they realized that motivation doesn't win football games when the other team outsmarts you.
Big difference is that this Avs team is not talented. We have a handfull of quality players and about 15 #6 dmen and/or 3rd/4th liners.

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03-16-2013, 08:47 PM
  #636
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Originally Posted by iceberg View Post
Big difference is that this Avs team is not talented. We have a handfull of quality players and about 15 #6 dmen and/or 3rd/4th liners.
A lot of Niner fans said that about the team pre Harbaugh era, and that we'd be a couple years away from contending with Harbaugh because we were severely lacking in talent. A coach can make up for lack of talent

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03-16-2013, 09:59 PM
  #637
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03-17-2013, 01:57 AM
  #638
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^^^ Every time I see your username, I think of this guy, from Barney Miller



My dad has a whole bunch of Barney Miller on VHS. Came to love the show watching it as a kid. My name is kinda a play on Forsberg and Landeskog, as well as the name of the Dietrich from Barney Miller.

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03-17-2013, 01:59 AM
  #639
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Originally Posted by iceberg View Post
Big difference is that this Avs team is not talented. We have a handfull of quality players and about 15 #6 dmen and/or 3rd/4th liners.
This roster is much better than what they're displaying right now...well, at least when they put their best players out there. Sacco insists on icing an inferior roster on purpose.

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03-17-2013, 02:25 AM
  #640
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03-17-2013, 02:56 AM
  #641
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I agree...do SOMETHING, even if it's a lip-service interview that attempts to convince the fans this team is on the right track. At least that would be something that acknowledges the fans' patience in some small way.

I don't believe Sacco will be fired before the end of the season. The season can't be saved, so management likely believes there's no point. Even so, I think Sacco should be fired RIGHT NOW, but he won't be.

I definitely don't want Burke here--he's proven to be almost as clueless in the salary cap era as Lacroix and his "successors." I don't think Roy would be a good choice either. And of course, a Roy/Burke relationship would never, ever work, but you know it'd make for great drama. At least that would be something better than what we're getting from the current regime.

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03-17-2013, 03:59 AM
  #642
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There's really no point in fireing Sacco right now unless we bring in a long term solution behind the bench, we aren't going to make the playoffs and bringing in an interim coach is just setting him up for failure (Cunneyworth style) without giving him a chance to prove himself.

I just red the article above, I agree with this:

Quote:
The Avalanche stinks. I asked Sacco: Do you believe the 10-13-4 Avs are what their record suggests?

"We're a better team," Sacco replied.

Well, then those words are self-incriminating for Sacco and his coaching staff.
And I strongly disagree with this:

Quote:
Brian Burke, are you ready to take over as general manager? Please, will somebody with a clue pick up the white paging phone?
That sentence is a bit of a oxymoron, Burke showed everything except patience and the know how when it comes to building a team. Changes are needed, but please for the love of God don't just change something for the sake of changing it, take your time and think about what's best for the team. Just take a page from the Nuggets book and put competent men at every position, this team needs their George Karl in the worst way.


Last edited by Ivan13: 03-17-2013 at 05:25 AM.
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03-17-2013, 04:55 AM
  #643
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You shouldn't be allowed to link to a Kiszla article without adding this link.

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03-17-2013, 04:56 AM
  #644
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AslanRH View Post
WHY SHERMAN SHOULD NOT FIRE SACCO UNTIL THIS SEASON ENDS

Unless Sakic is willing to coach on an interim basis (which I doubt: could he sit Hejduk if needed?) Sacco has to stay.
1) Who will coach the rest of the year? If its Quinn or Army, and the Avs go on a run or at least show improvement, it opens the door for that coach to stay on for next year.
2) Better to see who all the available options are this summer. This team needs a coach with some experience in the NHL. I know many want Roy, but he'll want too much player control, and I'm not a fan of one person being the Coach and GM of a team in any sport.
3) Very unlikely that the Avs make the playoffs even if they go on a run, so no point in the upheaval, when worst case scenario is the team tanks for another month and a half.
4) With Sacco in charge til the end of the season, our chances to draft Jones/MacKinnon/Drouin skyrocket!

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03-17-2013, 09:42 AM
  #645
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You shouldn't be allowed to link to a Kiszla article without adding this link.

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03-17-2013, 10:27 AM
  #646
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4) With Sacco in charge til the end of the season, our chances to draft Jones/MacKinnon/Drouin skyrocket!
Exactly. 21 more games. We can do this, the team can do this. There's no reason to fire Sacco now and risk that we'll start to win out of a sudden. Playoffs aren't realistic anymore, so Avs better get a top 3 overall pick and replace Sacco with a really good coach who hasn't worked with the team before at the end of the season.

The good thing is that the Avs will be forced to fire Sacco after the season if the team continues to play this way. I thought they would keep him until the end of his contract but that won't happen if this goes on. The only thing what scares me now is the chance that they'll simply promote Army or Quinn and that won't change much imo. New faces behind the bench are what this teams needs.

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03-17-2013, 10:31 AM
  #647
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Disagree, fire him now so you know what you have in your players. You won't have enough time to evaluate your team response to a new coach next season before deciding what to so with guys like O'Reilly and Stastny.

Let Quinn takeover, bring in Cooper in the offseason and let the team prove if they were hindered by Sacco or not.

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03-17-2013, 10:56 AM
  #648
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While I'm no fan of Burke (as mentioned in K:s article), at least that would bring some excitement to this sorry organization.

As a fan, I can accept that there are 30 teams in the league that are pretty competitive right now. So maybe we won't win a cup for the rest of my lifetime. As the Maple Leafs have shown, that's a definite possibility.

But I would at least like to have something to be excited about. An owner that cares would be a start. A president who isn't using the team offices as a retirement home would help as well. A GM who knows hockey? Heck yeah! A coach who knows hockey? Even better!

Point being - I've disliked Burke for a long time. He had some stupid moves with the Maple Leafs (i.e. Kessel trade, Komisarek signing etc). But he had some steals too (Beauchemin trade, Kadri is looking good), and at least he'd show some passion for the team and be willing to do whatever it takes to put a good product on the ice.

So, while I don't care much for the Brian Burke idea, I do like what he would represent. A management that cares and does whatever it takes to get back on track. I can't stand another season or two of watching my favourite team being treated like the ugly stepchild by its own front office. Don't give me our AHL coach or our assistant coach as the new head coach when/if Sacco is ever fired. Don't hire another guy from accounting if Shermanator is fired. And please, don't ever put Eric Lacroix as GM or President of the team, because I would quit this team soo hard if that ever happened.

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03-17-2013, 11:00 AM
  #649
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
Disagree, fire him now so you know what you have in your players. You won't have enough time to evaluate your team response to a new coach next season before deciding what to so with guys like O'Reilly and Stastny.

Let Quinn takeover, bring in Cooper in the offseason and let the team prove if they were hindered by Sacco or not.
Again if they want to make a long term solution I'm OK with them giving him his pink slip, if they're giving an interim tag to Quinn or Army I'm against it, because that's unfair both to players and to Quinn/Army.

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03-17-2013, 11:04 AM
  #650
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Again if they want to make a long term solution I'm OK with them giving him his pink slip, if they're giving an interim tag to Quinn or Army I'm against it, because that's unfair both to players and to Quinn/Army.
If an employer offered you your boss' salary for the next few months and said that your performance would dictate whether you were kept in the position or replaced with an outside hire, would you pass up the opportunity? It's not unfair at all and can't even hurt them.

If Quinn can't hack it, keep him as an assistant to let him learn some more. If we brought in another coach they'd likely be gone anyways, is that unfair to them for not giving them an opportunity to save their jobs?

As for the players, I don't see how firing the coach they won't respond to is unfair to them.

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