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Rangers @ Penguins 3/16/13 - Manbearpig Strikes Again

View Poll Results: Player of the Game?
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Old
03-16-2013, 08:10 PM
  #301
nevesis
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The losing is bad. But it's being blown WAY out of proportion.

This can change very quick the other way.

You don't blow anything up yet.

However, if it doesn't change, then you start to look at changes to roster, etc.

We're going to battle with this group, and we might have lost a few battles but the war isint over yet.

On to the next one.

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03-16-2013, 08:12 PM
  #302
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Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
I am in general agreement with this, though while I agree Miller will benefit with more experience --- he's trying to do too much --- he obviously has the ability to play and contribute meaningfully even at this early juncture.

A few points:
My detractors, please kindly bend, buckle and break to the fact that while I have made mistakes, I have been correct about a lot of things, and until those things get addressed by Rangers for real, they will continue to suffer, not in abstract, but for real, and we with them.

1. OVERRIDING. Torts must go. NOW.
Torts was supposedly "safe is death" back in year 1. But instead of being the best of the old Canadiens, the Yankees of the NHL, where there was a fluid, moving, pressing offense with decent checking and skilled shooters, we now have the morass there is. We have a world class G. By all means don't leave him hanging out to dry with stupid or excessive risks, but do take prudent risks. Instead of maximizing our D, we ask Girardi to eat pucks, and when he is injured, we are surprised. And the constant shot blocking leads to killing offense, injuries, exhaustion, defense actually falling out of place on follow throughs to given plays.

Yes, I want someone who will get them in top shape and play hard, but no I don't want another Keenan where the talent is ridden to hard for too long.


2 OVERRIDING. NO SACRED COWS --- Part 1, add talent
Yes we are good, we are very good, and we are entitled to enjoy that fact, but it also OVERRIDING reality we need to get better. We do that by making moves NOT by standing pat. THAT does NOT mean we make a trade for sake of a trade. But it DOES mean we understand and acknowledge the priority of adding net talent over other concerns.

Yes, balance is nice, and even important, but adding talent IS CRITICAL.
Accordingly, when we have a chance to move Boyle for Dylan Olsen + a generous 4th, we don't say to Chicago, no, it'd be a no brainer if he were righty, you admit Olsen, a later first ready to play D now, is important for us as a McIlrath lite to add grit now on the bottom pair, and we move MDZ to 2nd pair to make that happen.


3 OVERRIDING. NO SACRED COWS --- Part 2, flexibility for the big picture
This is a process. It is not an isolated photograph snapshot. It is a moving picture of multiple snapshots run quickly one after the other. Therefore, using the above scenario as an example, we do NOT say, we don't add Olsen cause we already have Staal, McD, MDZ, we say we add Olsen, and we have not only injury insurance, but planning flexibility to move Staal, if we eventually have to, for a good deal.

4. Stop with idiocy of "win now" Try to win every year.
We need to constantly add, even we are at the top. Look at Chicago, add, develop, add. Have an off year at G, make the best of it. Now they have abundance of riches.

No reason we can't do that. Develop every year.
Getting one special piece to put us over the top has to be a unique situation, not a regular policy.


CONSIDER BEYOND OBVIOUS POSSIBILITIES not overriding, but requires an open mind
Kreider can/should be here, simultaneously crapping the place but also making great plays. He has the skill to be truly great --- I wouldn't say elite yet, but certainly star echelon. I likewise called Miller, who is also crapping all over while playing his heart out productively.

These are special players. I had the insight to see these guys could be available sooner than later, and 90+% of you said, no, couldn't happen, etc. You said that just because it was written in stone as conventional wisdom that it should take more time, it was impossible for Miller particularly to be here this year.

You suffer from your own lack of vision and creativity, it shows, and you reap what you sow.

-----------

The great majority of most of you have a polite difference of opinion with me, and I respectfully ask you all to help me come up with improved visions and better strategies for our beloved Rangers in an ongoing honest discussion. Obviously the current state of this team, being a disaster, is painful.

WE DO THAT BY HONESTLY HAVING AN OPEN COMPETITION OF IDEAS.

A handful of you are arrogant, you know who you are. Your guttersniping is tiring, and ultimately shows little.


--------------

And now for something almost completely different.
Simply because I have not gone for enough into the powderkeg with a lit match by means of the above, let me add one new thought.

Kreider has not had enough time to be fully ready, this I agree.
However, if we eliminate the immediate issue of Torts all over his ass constantly, and get him back to playing without overly thinking about it, I see CK up here now.

Don't worry about saving this season, we have an up climb vs, at minimum, the Pens and the Black Hawks, whatever happens will happen.

CK should be up here, getting special tutelage, and working extra shifts.
But I think we should also give him a chance at C

This is not necessarily a permanent move. My understanding is his early history was more C than W. Granted, this is a huge leap to a pro game. But he may be more comfortable with it.

I would ultimately like to play Kreider wherever out best interests are served.
But given we are thin at C, including w/issues about Richards, having a 1 or 2 year experiment with a kid who is just 20ish will not kill him. It may broaden his perspectives,

And this need not be a 100% dedicated shifting of position.
Just give him enough extra shifts between Hagelin and Nash to see if that ignites anything, and relieves the other lines of minutes it has to fill.

I'm back to the real world.
Sorry to unintentionally but I am disgusted, and the truth must be told.
The underlying theme of your post?

Management. Maybe Torts isn't the only problem. Maybe there really needs to be an overhaul not at the team/player level, but up and down the big wigs. There needs to be a new, fresh mentality throughout the entire organization. I'm still a big advocate of getting rid of Sather (and starting to strongly consider adding Torts to this short list) so long as we can hold on to our current scouting staff arrangements. Everyone keeps saying "Oh we need to trade for this, we need to trade for that, we still need a #1C, we still need a #1 whatever"..then complain about team chemistry. This team CAN battle back. This team DOES have fight in them. What they DON'T have is someone that can hold their attention and bring this trait out on a team level. Yes, Torts was able to once upon a time, but please don't try to tell me that no training camp is at fault for the way the team is playing. All I'm going to say about that is this: Ottawa. People have been saying he has lost this team and I think that is starting to really shine through. They don't care because he doesn't care. He'll be the first to throw them under the bus, but won't admit poor coaching. Why would they want to play for someone who won't hold himself accountable for his actions, and in the process pins everything solely on the players?


Last edited by ck20: 03-16-2013 at 08:20 PM.
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Old
03-16-2013, 08:16 PM
  #303
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The teams overall play has not changed at all since last years playoffs and has gotten worse with the loss of Duinsky, Prust, AA

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03-16-2013, 08:38 PM
  #304
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The goal scoring drought is a little concerning. Richards/Gaborik still haven't gotten going yet. Hagelin continues to struggle. And with Nash not performing like he had a week ago, it shows how shallow our offense is.

2 goals in 3 games.

Doesn't matter if Lundqvist gives up 1 goal or 10 goals. You can't win games scoring the way the Rangers are right now. They need to find a way to start putting the puck in the net.

And I know Tortorella said "As a coach, you steer clear of that, it's a skill" of course I'm just paraphrasing, but isn't there some onus on the coach to get the team going offensively? I know he teaches responsibilities way from the puck... but when your team is struggling like this with the talent it has, you've got to take some responsibility.

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03-16-2013, 08:40 PM
  #305
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Originally Posted by RangerBlues View Post
The teams overall play has not changed at all since last years playoffs and has gotten worse with the loss of Duinsky, Prust, AA
Agreed. In retrospect, I'm not sure how I feel about the Nash trade and the $7.8 million contract. We had too much of a turn over to take on Nash.

Honestly, I almost wish we kept the same roster and signed Semin to a one year deal. If we added Semin we would have added a legitimate top-6 goal scorer, a real game changer, and we wouldn't have had to give up any assets. The price for Nash was too much at this point.

And where is Columbus now? A whopping 2 points behind us...

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03-16-2013, 08:43 PM
  #306
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Doesn't matter what the line combos are. This team does not have the heart or talent to be successful.

Richards & Gaborik have fallen off a cliff so badly its hard to believe.

And Sather has put together a collection of 3rd & 4th line players that would have problems scoring a goal in the AHL

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03-16-2013, 08:44 PM
  #307
nevesis
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Kreider scored two goals tonight by the way.

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03-16-2013, 08:45 PM
  #308
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Originally Posted by Fataldogg View Post
Agreed. In retrospect, I'm not sure how I feel about the Nash trade and the $7.8 million contract. We had too much of a turn over to take on Nash.

Honestly, I almost wish we kept the same roster and signed Semin to a one year deal. If we added Semin we would have added a legitimate top-6 goal scorer, a real game changer, and we wouldn't have had to give up any assets. The price for Nash was too much at this point.

And where is Columbus now? A whopping 2 points behind us...
I don't think Semin and Torts would have gelled nicely.

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03-16-2013, 08:48 PM
  #309
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Columbus has now tied us in points, albeit with 2 more games played. But considering the way were playing, I wouldn't be surprised to see us lose vs Carolina next game and the Devils game is a coin toss imo.

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03-16-2013, 08:50 PM
  #310
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For the 10000 time it all stems from Richards . He elevates his play it trickles down the lineup . Ill put the name calling aside and ask the board : " does anyone think think Brad Richards has anything left " . Because if he doesn't that is disastrous going forward . Does anyone think going forward NYR can be competitive at all with 6 forwards with only 6 goals between them ? bottom 6 or not you gotta have a little more offense than that . As for Gaborik , Torts has bullied him from jump street and he's gotten results and gotten him to buy in but the whole LW thing was the final straw. Guy scored. 41 and played grind sandpaper jam block hockey through. 3 rounds last year and is rewarded with a change of position. Whether its concious or not that's a final straw . I'm being unbiased in saying that Torts is in self preservation more and flailing . He didnt make Brad Richards bust personally . He didnt assemble the team (although I think he has something to do with personnel decisions ) . Someone has to be left holding the bag .

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03-16-2013, 08:59 PM
  #311
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Not surprised to see Columbus doing well. Over the summer, most Rangers fans were convinced that we won the Nash trade and refused to consider the possibility that it could end up being an even trade for both teams.

Meanwhile, while Nash has performed well individually, our team has struggled. The 2013 New York Rangers have turned into the Columbus Blue Jackets of years past.

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03-16-2013, 09:24 PM
  #312
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I don't think Semin and Torts would have gelled nicely.
How many players gel with Torts?

His 29 points would have certainly helped this team out, especially if we kept Anisimov and Dubinsky to keep in tact a capable 3rd line or add extra moving pieces into our top-6.

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03-16-2013, 09:26 PM
  #313
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Originally Posted by OverTheCap View Post
Not surprised to see Columbus doing well. Over the summer, most Rangers fans were convinced that we won the Nash trade and refused to consider the possibility that it could end up being an even trade for both teams.

Meanwhile, while Nash has performed well individually, our team has struggled. The 2013 New York Rangers have turned into the Columbus Blue Jackets of years past.
IMO, it's not worth giving up team depth and chemistry for a single super star who, albeit, has performed well. It's a team game. And we're barely better than Columbus with Nash on our squad. They're a much better team without him.

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03-16-2013, 09:33 PM
  #314
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IMO, it's not worth giving up team depth and chemistry for a single super star who, albeit, has performed well. It's a team game. And we're barely better than Columbus with Nash on our squad. They're a much better team without him.
Yes, we took a step back losing Artie/Dubi...but let's also remember we lost Prust/Feds too. We've got Nash for many years to come, and it's a lot easier to replace the guys we lost...although it might take some time to accomplish.

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03-16-2013, 09:57 PM
  #315
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Yes, we took a step back losing Artie/Dubi...but let's also remember we lost Prust/Feds too. We've got Nash for many years to come, and it's a lot easier to replace the guys we lost...although it might take some time to accomplish.
And what makes it even worse is that the supporting cast that Slats put together to replace them has not been very supportive.

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03-16-2013, 10:48 PM
  #316
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Yeah guys, this is all because we lost Arty and Dubi.

This is one of the most retarded sentiments going around this board right now.

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03-16-2013, 10:50 PM
  #317
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Torts needs to go if the upper management wants to save the season. Period.

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03-16-2013, 11:04 PM
  #318
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Originally Posted by Ailurophile View Post
Yeah guys, this is all because we lost Arty and Dubi.

This is one of the most retarded sentiments going around this board right now.
This.

We can't score goals, so we should have kept our 10 and 16 goal scores!

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03-16-2013, 11:08 PM
  #319
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I liked last years team a lot more.

Not just the winning, but the feel of the team. I liked them better.

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03-16-2013, 11:11 PM
  #320
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I liked last years team a lot more.

Not just the winning, but the feel of the team. I liked them better.
definitely feel you on this one. i dunno why, i was in LOVE with last years team. just something about them, the intangibles.

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03-16-2013, 11:19 PM
  #321
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It was 24/7's fault. We really got to see that it was a family, a team of brothers last year

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03-16-2013, 11:27 PM
  #322
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Last year's team played like they had something to prove. You got the idea they were really unified in the way they were going to play, and win.

This year, half the team looks like they've never seen each other before. Alot of them haven't.

I love having Rick Nash, but there was too much turnover this offseason. It's no surprise Torts is struggling. He had a strong team culture built, with everyone buying in, and the guts of the team got removed. Replace Prust, Artie, Dubi, and Feds with Powe, Halpern, Pyatt and Haley, and what did you expect to happen?

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03-16-2013, 11:34 PM
  #323
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Originally Posted by Ailurophile View Post
Yeah guys, this is all because we lost Arty and Dubi.

This is one of the most retarded sentiments going around this board right now.
The contributions of players like Prust and Dubinsky can't be measured on the stats sheet. They help to bond the team, they know when to give the team a lift or calm the team down, their work ethic rubs off on the rest of the players, they make going to the rink and practice enjoyable for the rest of the guys.

When you look at the history of the NHL, you'll see quite a few guys who played a quiet 10-12 years in the league and who have multiple rings, conference finals, etc, under their belt, and you wonder, how in the world did a journeyman get on so many winning teams? These glue guys are just as important as your first string netminder, your top center, your top shutdown pairing, etc.

Slats did a poor job of replacing them. Instead of bringing in top flight character, he brought in spare parts. Huge difference.

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03-17-2013, 12:36 AM
  #324
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Originally Posted by Nac Mac Feegle View Post
When you look at the history of the NHL, you'll see quite a few guys who played a quiet 10-12 years in the league and who have multiple rings, conference finals, etc, under their belt, and you wonder, how in the world did a journeyman get on so many winning teams?
The answer to this is that when you take the thousands of third line type players that have played in the league just based on chance some (a very small percentage) of them will end up winning multiple cups while the overwhelming majority would have gone through their career winning nothing. Essentially it is just picking a small part of the sample that fits your (in general, not particularly referring to you) argument. For every bottom 6 guy like Feds who has won some cup you can name a bunch of them who played equally long and never won.

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03-17-2013, 12:45 AM
  #325
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Originally Posted by Ailurophile View Post
Yeah guys, this is all because we lost Arty and Dubi.

This is one of the most retarded sentiments going around this board right now.
It's not necessarily that Dubinsky and Anisimov were irreplaceable players.

Last year's roster was built for and partially by Tortorella. As such, the roster performed well under him.

This year, though, the roster is a lot different. It's much more top-heavy and there is less depth up front. Sather didn't replace the depth he lost in Prust, Fedotenko, Mitchell, Dubinsky, and Anisimov. He added Pyatt and Asham. He also expected Kreider to be a contributor at this level right out of the gate, as most of us did. He's now in the AHL.

Frankly, I'm done looking for answers as to why this team is playing so poorly. To me, it looks like a team that has tuned out it's coach, but I digress. It's on the players, the GM, and the coaching staff to figure out and correct the problems. All of them.

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