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Hypothetically speaking...could Crosby, Ovechkin, Malkin or Stamkos break Gretzkys...

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Old
03-16-2013, 03:14 PM
  #126
Plante
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noldo View Post
But if Gretzky would score around Crosby's level in todays' game, do ou really consider that other stars of the 80s (Trottier, Bossy, Yzerman, Dionne, Messier) would be scoring around 65-80 points / year in their best years?

After all, if we assume that scoring at Gretzky's rate (200 points / year) would be equal to around 120 points today (actually highly generous assumption for Crosby), those numerous other stars from the 80s that scored in their best years between 130-110 points / season would be scoring around 65-80 points / season, way behind any point race.
This is the biggest thing, everyone argues that gretzky was just a product of his era.

That suggests that the other stars were.... incapable.

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03-16-2013, 03:24 PM
  #127
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Originally Posted by dethomas07 View Post
the question should be if gretzky played in todays game would he put up the same points..

i think its a totally different game.. athletes are so more athletic today then they were back then and someone mentioned it above me about goalies equipment.. today their gear is huge compared to back then..
Would Gretzky then not also be a product of his enviornment and be a far better athlete with better equipment and training or is he using a joffa helmet in 2013 and everyone else is using modern technology.

This argument gets broughten up in any Gretzky thread that everyone in the modern NHL is so good but none of the improvements seem to apply to him

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03-16-2013, 03:29 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by Kevin8se7en View Post
0% chance he breaks the point record

Lets compare Yzerman to Crosby... Both started at 18yrs old

Assuming Corsby hits 75 points this season... he would be at 684 Career Points in his first 8 seasons (would be 26yrs old to start his 9th). Granted, many of those being shortened for whatever reason.

Yzerman was at exactly 800 points within the same time frame (more games played). Not saying Yzerman was better. I'm just pointing out that in all-time points, Crosby has to make up 116 points so far.

Over the next 3 seasons, Yzerman averaged 107 points to reach a total of 1122.
I think it's safe to say Crosby isn't going to average 146 points in the next three seasons. Lets say he averages 119 in that span, he would still be behind Yzerman at the same age by 81 career points.

Yzerman's following season was an injured one in which he only got 38 points.
Let's assume Crosby gets another 119 point season... that would bring him exactly on par with Yzerman's 1160 career points.

That's almost best case scenario and Crosby is on par with Yzerman going in his 13th NHL season as a 30yr old.

Over the next 5 seasons, Yzerman averaged 80 points per year (as a 30, 31, 32, 33and 34 yr old).

After 35, he averaged 48 points and a PPG of 0.75 which isn't bad for a 35+ yr old

Point totals starting from the fisrt season a player began the season as a 30yr old:
Messier: 746 (retired 44)
Recchi: 691 (retired 43)
Selanne: 636 (Including this season so far - currently 42)
Yzerman: 595
Gretzky: 594
Sakic: 581
Jagr: 436
Lemieux: 351

and as you can see.. Yzerman is up there for points among 30+ year olds that didnt retire as cavemen.

Realistically, with history taken in to account, Crosby has a very slim chance at getting as many points as Gretzky has assists, but if generally healthy as compared to most, he should be in the Yzerman ballpark.
This post pretty much sums it up. Sometimes I wonder if people forget Gretzky has more assists then anyone else has points

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Old
03-16-2013, 03:46 PM
  #129
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They're just 2000 points away from reaching it!

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03-16-2013, 04:31 PM
  #130
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The only way any of them are beating Gretzkys point record is if they from now on reward golas and assists with extra points based on how pretty the play was.

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03-16-2013, 04:42 PM
  #131
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2857 is a points record we will take to our graves. If there is a player in the NHL that can surpass Messier's record of points then it is Crosby and Messier is 2nd all-time and has less points than Gretzky has assists.

I just don't think a career mark like that will get broken in our lifetime. Single season records have a shot though, a long shot, if only because you just need to have a hot year and a lot of luck. Easier to do that once than 20 times.

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03-16-2013, 05:15 PM
  #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coffe View Post
The only way any of them are beating Gretzkys point record is if they from now on reward golas and assists with extra points based on how pretty the play was.
A great idea! Crosby would have already overtaken him if that was the case

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03-16-2013, 05:16 PM
  #133
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Some of the questions on this board....

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Old
03-16-2013, 08:10 PM
  #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noldo View Post
But if Gretzky would score around Crosby's level in todays' game, do ou really consider that other stars of the 80s (Trottier, Bossy, Yzerman, Dionne, Messier) would be scoring around 65-80 points / year in their best years?

After all, if we assume that scoring at Gretzky's rate (200 points / year) would be equal to around 120 points today (actually highly generous assumption for Crosby), those numerous other stars from the 80s that scored in their best years between 130-110 points / season would be scoring around 65-80 points / season, way behind any point race.
I would say that Gretzky's approach to the game was better at exploiting the weaknesses in the 80's game than the less mental games of other stars. But those weaknesses no longer exist. He would be effective, but not so dramatically better.

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03-16-2013, 08:14 PM
  #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plante View Post
This is the biggest thing, everyone argues that gretzky was just a product of his era.

That suggests that the other stars were.... incapable.
Other stars were incapable of exploiting the weaknesses exactly as he did.

You can't look at the stat alone. You have to look at what went into making it what it was. Gretzky didn't play the same game other players did. He exploited a loophole that other players were exploiting, but not nearly as well. Eventually that loophole closed, and his marked advantage over every other star that might play a speed game, or a physical game rather than an entirely intellectual one disappeared.

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03-16-2013, 08:18 PM
  #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toothless Couts View Post
Some of the questions on this board....


He has MORE ASSISTS THAN ANYONE HAS POINTS. Why is that so hard for people to understand? Had the man never scored a goal, he would still have the highest point total in the history if the game. That is insane!

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03-16-2013, 08:26 PM
  #137
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Originally Posted by RC24 View Post
He has MORE ASSISTS THAN ANYONE HAS POINTS. Why is that so hard for people to understand? Had the man never scored a goal, he would still have the highest point total in the history if the game. That is insane!
Yes, it is insane. And it leads some people to look at why and how that happened. You know, understanding context rather than just looking at a number on paper.

Will anyone ever beat Gretzky's point record? Doubtful. But could another player come along and claim the best player of all time label without breaking or even coming close to the record? That's not just a real possibility, but it will happen, sooner or later.

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03-16-2013, 08:34 PM
  #138
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Originally Posted by CptKirk View Post
Yes, it is insane. And it leads some people to look at why and how that happened. You know, understanding context rather than just looking at a number on paper.

Will anyone ever beat Gretzky's point record? Doubtful. But could another player come along and claim the best player of all time label without breaking or even coming close to the record? That's not just a real possibility, but it will happen, sooner or later.
When the numbers are that overwhelmingly in your favor, no it won't. He was that much better.

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Old
03-16-2013, 08:37 PM
  #139
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It would take someone that brings a never before seen dimension to the game in order to challenge those records. Like someone that can stick handle without the puck toughing the ice scoring lacrose style goals or something.

OR like the Sedins but twin Crosbies.

The way the athletisism and talent are so elevated in today's NHL no one will ever dominate their peers by that much of a factor again unless something flueky happens.

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Old
03-16-2013, 08:46 PM
  #140
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Originally Posted by icerocket View Post
Gretzky's records will never be broken because the goalies have gotten so good.
Gretzky beat the world's best goaltenders his entire career. Not like he was playing against scrubs.

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