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Old
07-31-2006, 07:53 PM
  #1
NYR957
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Anyone want to join in on the argument?

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/boards/thr...id=1&page=last

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Old
07-31-2006, 07:56 PM
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That would mean I would have to sign up for the frauds site. Pass.

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Old
07-31-2006, 08:11 PM
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Bird Law
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It's funny seeing some windbag Islander fan spout off like that. It always makes me happy to see things like that.

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07-31-2006, 08:29 PM
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Trottier
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Prescription View Post
It's funny seeing some windbag Islander fan spout off like that. It always makes me happy to see things like that.

The idiocy is not limited to an NYI fan, JP. The "Peter" genius from Vancouver is saying much the same just before him.

Man, I can't stand ignorance. Denying Messier's greatness is denying that water is wet.

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07-31-2006, 08:34 PM
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Bird Law
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trottier View Post
The idiocy is not limited to an NYI fan, JP. The "Peter" genius from Vancouver is saying much the same just before him.

Man, I can't stand ignorance. Denying Messier's greatness is denying that water is wet.
My comments were more directed to the tail end of the argument when talking about the NYR system.

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Old
07-31-2006, 08:45 PM
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wow. the Isles fan going about the Rangers was just something incredible. Lundqvist is a "one month starter". Awesome.

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Old
07-31-2006, 08:53 PM
  #7
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Pretty interesting read...there were a lot of things I didn't know that were stated in that thread. I knew things went downhill in Vancouver but I never heard about him running Renney out of Vancouver.

From a Canucks perspective though, I can see why many Vancouver fans don't take a liking to him. Messier was being paid 6 million and didn't do anything for them. He supposedly caused many problems that hurt the team.

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Old
07-31-2006, 08:55 PM
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my personal favoriet:


"The stats lie my friend. I will admit he was a decent player but lets not forget who his linemates were... gretzky and kurri." - kent


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Old
07-31-2006, 08:59 PM
  #9
Levitate
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LundmarkFan View Post
Pretty interesting read...there were a lot of things I didn't know that were stated in that thread. I knew things went downhill in Vancouver but I never heard about him running Renney out of Vancouver.

From a Canucks perspective though, I can see why many Vancouver fans don't take a liking to him. Messier was being paid 6 million and didn't do anything for them. He supposedly caused many problems that hurt the team.
well to be honest, I think as Mess got older he got less effective as captain. once he went to vancouver, I think he wasn't really operating the same way as he had before and when he came back to NY, he wasn't the same kind of captain he was previously.

I know that's rather vague, but I guess I'm saying that I think at one point he was a very good leader and he definitely helped the Oilers and the Rangers win their cups. But that wasn't the way it was his whole career

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07-31-2006, 09:02 PM
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Bird Law
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
wow. the Isles fan going about the Rangers was just something incredible. Lundqvist is a "one month starter". Awesome.
Reminded me of NYIsles posting.

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Old
07-31-2006, 09:05 PM
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I agree with most of the Canucks fans in their cynicism of Messier-- he wasn't as great of a team guy as everyone made him out to be.

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Old
07-31-2006, 09:27 PM
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Trottier
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Originally Posted by dakose View Post
I agree with most of the Canucks fans in their cynicism of Messier-- he wasn't as great of a team guy as everyone made him out to be.
I wasn't in the Canucks lockeroom, so it's hard to comment. Will simply observe the following. By 1997, Mark Messier's resume was etched in granite, his reputation sealed.

That is, he had ACHIEVED a RECORD OF ACCOMPLISMENT.

His Canuck teammates, on the other hand, had everything to prove.

Perhaps it was they who were not worthy (or more aptly, capable of) success moreso than the one player not living up to his side of the bargain. Much as was the case upon #11's return to Manhattan. Messier didn't forget how to lead. He didn't have teammates capable of being led.

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07-31-2006, 09:37 PM
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GothamRanger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trottier View Post
I wasn't in the Canucks lockeroom, so it's hard to comment. Will simply observe the following. By 1997, Mark Messier's resume was etched in granite, his reputation sealed.

That is, he had ACHIEVED a RECORD OF ACCOMPLISMENT.

His Canuck teammates, on the other hand, had everything to prove.

Perhaps it was they who were not worthy (or more aptly, capable of) success moreso than the one player not living up to his side of the bargain. Much as was the case upon #11's return to Manhattan. Messier didn't forget how to lead. He didn't have teammates capable of being led.
I almost puked after reading this post. Are you serious? You can't have been typing that withouth chuckling. Players not worthy to be lead by Mark "I lead better than Jesus" Messier? Sorry, I don't buy that. If Messier was the true leader he was, he would never have left NY to begin with. His "We'll Win Tonite" comment was one promise he made and kept, while he made scores of others that never panned out. That is why the effective leaders lead by example and example alone, not hot air.

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07-31-2006, 09:37 PM
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with the exchange rate back then, all those canadian bills in his pockets got in the way of his skating.

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07-31-2006, 10:21 PM
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Messier's leadership has become more of a pop icon than actual truth.

Simply put, he was a successful leader when he could carry a team. His "leadership" waned quite a bit when he physically couldn't do it.

Messier is one of those really interesting people you would love to meet and play with for a few days, but once his #1 center days were over, you would like to move on.

The best interview was from Markus Nasland. He had nothing but good things to say about Mark. He said he taught him a lot about leadership. But more telling, Markus and the Canucks learned this lesson much better once Messier left and they could do this on their own.

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Old
08-01-2006, 12:01 AM
  #16
CM Lundqvist
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I joined in, and Islander bashing is so much fun. Especially when they're just terribly jealous of where we're at.

You can find me under the moniker "Gretzky9282"

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Old
08-01-2006, 12:24 AM
  #17
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It takes one Islander fan to actually get some knowledge in on a conversation, and a Ranger fan to run to his HF friends to get his back because he doesen't know his as* from his elbow.

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Old
08-01-2006, 01:37 AM
  #18
Trottier
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dakose View Post
I almost puked after reading this post. Are you serious? You can't have been typing that withouth chuckling. Players not worthy to be lead by Mark "I lead better than Jesus" Messier? Sorry, I don't buy that. If Messier was the true leader he was, he would never have left NY to begin with. His "We'll Win Tonite" comment was one promise he made and kept, while he made scores of others that never panned out. That is why the effective leaders lead by example and example alone, not hot air.
And I'm laughing at your post. If Messier was a "true leader" he would never have left NY to begin with? Are you serious? And if you were a "real man", you'd never leave your place of employment. (Or let me guess. Not of age to work yet?) Sorry, that comment is both naive and myopic.

You can stick to getting caught up on remembering quotes. Some of us will look at the big picture, as in Cups won.

I just love ingrateful fans. No Messier, it's 66 years and counting. But...he was about "hot air"...for 24 seasons!

Nope, Messier wasn't a true leader.

PS - Next time, don't put words in my mouth (or post). Never said the Canucks weren't worthy of being led by Messier. I stated that they simply weren't that good. Reading is fundamental.


Last edited by Trottier: 08-01-2006 at 02:54 PM.
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Old
08-01-2006, 05:22 AM
  #19
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What I always had found interesting was that we were hammered for the Skakic offer sheet, yet Vancouver got a free pass for starting the whole thing by offering up a 50% increase over our contract.

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Old
08-01-2006, 06:50 AM
  #20
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Asinine. Messier is the most important Ranger to wear the Jersey period. 54yrs w/o a cup and he's the one who got us there. Not a leader

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Old
08-01-2006, 07:01 AM
  #21
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WOW reading that just plain makes my head hurt. That amount of homerism without anything facts to back up claims is just mind boggling. I've never hated any rival teams, but SOME fans make me wonder somtimes with outragous claims. DP is better than Lundqvist..... . Again thats not all fans, and we all know we have our share here in Ranger land that make you scratch your head from time to time, but wow.

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Old
08-01-2006, 07:34 AM
  #22
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They should stop drinking the water on Toxic Island, while they Wang themselves off. All hail #11.

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Old
08-01-2006, 09:05 AM
  #23
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wow, that guy was nuts. No idea. He's like Dawes is a fifth rounder and Prucha is an eighth rounder, thats pathetic.....SO EFFING WHAT???? They're doing good now aren't they??? so it doesn't matter, jesus.

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Old
08-01-2006, 10:11 AM
  #24
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This 'NYI' poster could be the most uninformed and bias fan I've ever seen. I'm almost impressed...

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Old
08-01-2006, 12:25 PM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingHendrik35 View Post
WOW reading that just plain makes my head hurt. That amount of homerism without anything facts to back up claims is just mind boggling. I've never hated any rival teams, but SOME fans make me wonder somtimes with outragous claims. DP is better than Lundqvist...... Again thats not all fans, and we all know we have our share here in Ranger land that make you scratch your head from time to time, but wow.

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