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International Tournaments Discuss international tournaments such as the World Juniors, Olympic hockey, and Ice Hockey World Championships, as they take place; or discuss past tournaments.

Everyone seems to think Tavares is a lock. I don't think so.

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Old
03-17-2013, 01:06 AM
  #51
Sidney the Kidney
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Quote:
Originally Posted by topshelfie View Post
Tavares Crosby Stamkos
Neal Toews Giroux
Marleau Thornton Nash
Bergeron Getzlaf Perry

Spares: Iginla
Barring some kid coming out of nowhere and completely tearing the league apart, I think the lineup will look something like:

E. Staal - Crosby - Iginla
Tavares - Giroux - Stamkos
Nash - Getzlaf - Perry
M. Richards - Toews - Bergeron

Extras: Duchene/Seguin (due to their versatility at C or W)

The first two lines should still be able to produce, the third line can produce but is also a pain in the butt to handle with their size, and that fourth line is arguably the best checking line in the tournament with three Selke caliber forwards on it (who can also score).

If Tavares doesn't make it, it'll be because Team Canada believes St. Louis would be a better fit for that second line on LW than Tavares.

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Old
03-17-2013, 01:06 AM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Puckgenius View Post
Then i put toews #3C and Tavares #2. Put two fast wingers on Tavares line and Tavares average skating ability wont be exposed.
Where do you put Getzlaf then?

Tavares won't be chosen ahead of him.

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03-17-2013, 01:06 AM
  #53
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Perry Crosby Stamkos
Giroux Tavares Duchene/Hall/Skinner
Getzlaf Toews Nash
Staal Bergeron Benn
Seguin

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Old
03-17-2013, 01:07 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by burf View Post
Kinda sad that 2 of the best centers in the game, Spezza and Thornton, will probably be left off the team because neither of them can play wing.

Especially Spezza. Dude's deserved to be on the Olympic team since 2006, but he's never been given the opportunity. 6th in the league in career PPG among active players, and second only to Crosby among Canadians. But he's going to be left off because again because he doesn't have heart, or he can't play defense, or lol giveaways, or he's never won a cup/hart/art ross, or whatever other flavour of the month reason people use to dismiss him from Team Canada / elite player consideration.

(Thornton's right behind him on that list too - 8th in the league in career PPG, and 3rd among Canadians)

e: (Numbers from http://www.hockey-reference.com/lead...me_active.html - minimum 500 career points, so it leaves off some of the newer players in the league whose performances haven't had time to normalize)
I feel ya especially in jason spezza's game I mean he shows up for the worlds, recently spengler cup and I really believed his game has changed since the 06 olympics he is much responsible in his own end now and his game is much simpler, unfortunately for him guys like crosby, stamkos, tavares, giroux and getzlaf have shown up since then. Id love to see him in the olympics with tavares, they had good chemistry in the spengler cup

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03-17-2013, 01:08 AM
  #55
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As to the topic itself, Tavares looked amazing when he was playing on Spezza's wing at the Spengler and at the WC 2 years ago. I hardly think he'll be left off the team.

And besides that, I'd way rather have Tavares at center than Giroux. Tavares is simply a better player.

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03-17-2013, 01:08 AM
  #56
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I advise you to watch some videos of Tavares outplaying the **** out of every Team Canada Centre during the 2012 World Hockey Championships on a line with Skinner and Eberle.

I'm an Avs fan and yeah maybe Matt Duchene is faster (good for big-ice) and better defensively than Tavares but Tavares is the 2nd best centre in the world imo, certainly top 5.

No but let's take another Rob Zamuner along instead of a star, that'll work out well.

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03-17-2013, 01:08 AM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trance Kuja View Post
Thornton, Spezza, and Iginla could all not make the team very easily because of the younger guys' play next season.

I'm American, why do I care so much?
at least you guys can be very happy with a distinct goaltending advantage

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03-17-2013, 01:09 AM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyBoy View Post
Where do you put Getzlaf then?

Tavares won't be chosen ahead of him.
do you think getzlaf > tavares?




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03-17-2013, 01:09 AM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by live playoff hockey View Post
Perry Crosby Stamkos
Giroux Tavares Duchene/Hall/Skinner
Getzlaf Toews Nash
Staal Bergeron Benn
Seguin
Getzlaf cannot be put on the wing. He is not a goal scorer. He needs to play center with Perry and either Nash or Staal on his wing

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03-17-2013, 01:09 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by JohnnyBoy View Post
I can't imagine any scenario where Bergeron doesn't get the 4C spot.

So basically, 2C comes down to Tavares vs. Getzlaf.

Do you think Team Canada is going to pick Tavares over a proven winner in Getzlaf, especially when Getzlaf is right there with Tavares as it relates to current abilities?
I think you're assuming the team will go with two scoring lines and two checking lines.

I believe they will go with 3 scoring lines and 1 two-way line.

Scoring line 1 - Crosby's line (Stamkos, Perry)
Scoring line 2 - Tavares' line (St. Louis, Giroux)
Scoring line 3 - Getzlaf's line (Nash, E. Staal)
Two way line - Toews' line (Duchene, Eberle)
Faceoffs - Bergeron.

This is just a rough idea, but the point is I doubt they'd have two defensive minded lines.

Toews line will be the two way line, and Bergeron if he makes the team, will be a faceoff guy like he was in 2010.

With 3 scoring lines, Canada can feel free to play whichever line is playing the best, as all 3 will be exceptionally skilled.

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03-17-2013, 01:09 AM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by live playoff hockey View Post
there is a clear gap imo
Where? Offensively? Duchene has performed the same as Tavares every year they've been in the league aside from Duchene's injury riddled season last season.

Defensively? Duchene is arguably the better defensive player.

Duchene brings dynamic skating, creativity (not a knock on JT's creativity) and experience at wing to the table.

I'm not seeing this huge gap that Tavares is supposedly creating. Vision, IQ, hockey sense is always the argument but I see two gifted players with basically the same production on more/less terrible teams.

PS I think Tavares is the better player, but the gap isn't huge IMO

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03-17-2013, 01:10 AM
  #62
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And taking it that MSL makes it, its obvious to play him with Stamkos. Stamkos-Crosby-MSL would be an unreal top line. MSL can still skate with the young kids. This might even be the best line of the tournament.

Sids playmaking, Stamkos shot and MSL experience and clutch track record.

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03-17-2013, 01:10 AM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by topshelfie View Post
Tavares Crosby Stamkos
Neal Toews Giroux
Marleau Thornton Nash
Bergeron Getzlaf Perry

Spares: Iginla
no way Tavares plays and these guys sit

Igilna
St louis
Spezza
Staal
Mike Richards

and no way Neal even gets invited to try out

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Old
03-17-2013, 01:11 AM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by live playoff hockey View Post
at least you guys can be very happy with a distinct goaltending advantage
Team USA, aside from the first line, isn't really a high flying offensive team.

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Old
03-17-2013, 01:11 AM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelDuck View Post
Getzlaf cannot be put on the wing. He is not a goal scorer. He needs to play center with Perry and either Nash or Staal on his wing
then he may get left behind

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03-17-2013, 01:13 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by HockeySens View Post
I feel ya especially in jason spezza's game I mean he shows up for the worlds, recently spengler cup and I really believed his game has changed since the 06 olympics he is much responsible in his own end now and his game is much simpler, unfortunately for him guys like crosby, stamkos, tavares, giroux and getzlaf have shown up since then. Id love to see him in the olympics with tavares, they had good chemistry in the spengler cup
I really think it would be a mistake to split up that Tavares-Spezza combo from recent international play. x-Spezza-Tavares would be a really good 2nd/3rd line behind Crosby.

Something like:

Stamkos-Crosby-Nash
Giroux-Spezza-Tavares
Duchene-Toews-Staal
Hall-Getzlaf-Perry

(Sub in Seguin/Benn/Bergeron for someone if you want)

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03-17-2013, 01:13 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by live playoff hockey View Post
then he may get left behind
Then Canada would be making a HUGE mistake. He beasted things up with Morrow on his line last Olympics. Imagine what he'd do with Nash.

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03-17-2013, 01:13 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by JohnnyBoy View Post
Where do you put Getzlaf then?

Tavares won't be chosen ahead of him.
Like i said Getzlaf will be leaned on heavily in defensive situations so i would put him 4th line. Thats no knock against him amd getzlaf would have no problem playing the shut down role.

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03-17-2013, 01:14 AM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyBoy View Post
Spezza has repeatedly ranked high on PPG lists. He has repeatedly shown up for the Worlds every year.

And he has repeatedly been left off of Team Canada for best-on-best tournaments, for exactly the same reasons I am talking about Tavares not being a lock.

Neither are suited to play the wing. Neither have been suited to play a checking or defensive roles. Neither have been one of the top 2 centres suited for a scoring-line role.
Tavares > Spezza

Spezza was a playmaker only suited for the center position, Tavares is a goal scoring playmaker who can score from any position on the ice. I think this comes down to you really not knowing much about Tavares, go watch him play. Tavares will have a bigger impact on Team Canada than Stamkos will.

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03-17-2013, 01:15 AM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyBoy View Post
For the role Tavares will be playing, it is going to take more than a PPG for him to make the team.

Canada has many other PPG players to choose from. Ones that are more suited to play the wing than Tavares is.

Tavares won't be playing on a 3rd or 4th line. He simply isn't suited for a checking line role, and he offers nothing on the PK.

If you take Tavares, then it has to be in a scoring role.

Crosby and Getzlaf are better options at centre on the scoring lines.

Do you think it makes sense to pick Tavares as a winger over players whose game translates better to playing the wing?
If Tavares is one of the top 8 or so Canadian forwards this time next year, they'll put him on the team and leave it up to the coach to do his job and decide what to do with him. This is the highest level, and the very best can figure out how to make it work.

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03-17-2013, 01:16 AM
  #71
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Originally Posted by landesberg View Post
Where? Offensively? Duchene has performed the same as Tavares every year they've been in the league aside from Duchene's injury riddled season last season.

Defensively? Duchene is arguably the better defensive player.

Duchene brings dynamic skating, creativity (not a knock on JT's creativity) and experience at wing to the table.

I'm not seeing this huge gap that Tavares is supposedly creating. Vision, IQ, hockey sense is always the argument but I see two gifted players with basically the same production on more/less terrible teams.

PS I think Tavares is the better player, but the gap isn't huge IMO
Only reason I see duchene even be picked over tavares is speed, I mean team sweden has a very mobile defense who can move and rush the puck so someone like duchene will be good in that situation, but for the upcoming olympics I still believe tavares will be chosen over duchene

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03-17-2013, 01:18 AM
  #72
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then he may get left behind
I doubt it very much. If he's healthy, he will be on the team. He was one of the point leaders on that team with a high ankle sprain.

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03-17-2013, 01:19 AM
  #73
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Originally Posted by burf View Post
I really think it would be a mistake to split up that Tavares-Spezza combo from recent international play. x-Spezza-Tavares would be a really good 2nd/3rd line behind Crosby.

Something like:

Stamkos-Crosby-Nash
Giroux-Spezza-Tavares
Duchene-Toews-Staal
Hall-Getzlaf-Perry

(Sub in Seguin/Benn/Bergeron for someone if you want)
I kind of like this

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03-17-2013, 01:20 AM
  #74
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you can't be serious... lol

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03-17-2013, 01:20 AM
  #75
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Spezza and Tavares had good chemistry at the Spengler Cup. Not sure if Spezza will make it though. Having seen Tavares a few times, seems like he will make it because he's always one of the best players on the ice.

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