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Alain Vigneault/coaching discussion thread - Part 4

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Old
03-17-2013, 12:02 AM
  #376
ItsAllPartOfThePlan
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Time to best that record!
Maybe that will get Brown fired.

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03-17-2013, 12:15 AM
  #377
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I want to see AV gone partly because I'm curious if Ballard might actually be an effective player under a different system.

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03-17-2013, 12:16 AM
  #378
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Laviolette though...would jump directly to the top of my short-list if he were to become available. He's got a ring, he's taken the Flyers pretty far, he advocates exactly the sort of aggressive attacking style we want, and he's obviously quite flexible and open to the idea of using skilled young players to great effect. He's on the hot seat because he has a pretty miserable group of blueliners as a whole, an extremely inexperienced team for the most part, and most of all...just garbage goaltending. Give him a roster like we have, and he'd excel imo.

The real question is...if the Flyers are stupid enough to can him over this season's disappointment...does Gillis have the cajones to fire AV this year and bring in a new coach this late in a short season? Laviolette is probably the only coach i'd consider it for...and even then, it's really dicey. It'd be an extremely tough short adjustment period. But if it meant securing Laviolette's services for the future...would it be worth it?
There's some scuttlebutt that Laviolette was the problem in the Flyers' dressing room and not Carter, Richards, etal.

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03-17-2013, 12:16 AM
  #379
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Can we send him to the KHL?

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03-17-2013, 12:20 AM
  #380
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Can we send him to the KHL?
I wish.

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03-17-2013, 12:20 AM
  #381
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I want to see AV gone partly because I'm curious if Ballard might actually be an effective player under a different system.
Look at Bouwmeester playing under an offensive-minded coach.

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03-17-2013, 12:21 AM
  #382
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There's some scuttlebutt that Laviolette was the problem in the Flyers' dressing room and not Carter, Richards, etal.
I'm wary of Laviolette. Look at his record with all the teams he has been with. After the first season it's all downhill. That's a disturbing trend.

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03-17-2013, 12:28 AM
  #383
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If Ballard had a game like the one Hamhuis had tonight, he would be scratched for the entire year (which seems to be happening now anyway).

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03-17-2013, 12:33 AM
  #384
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AV has literally one game plan. Doesn't matter what his roster is or who his players are or what their strengths and weaknesses are, he will try to mold them into his game plan and if they dont fit, they end up benched or not getting crucial minutes like PP. In other words, he doesnt manage what he has, everyone else has to manage AV's system.

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03-17-2013, 12:33 AM
  #385
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I've always been an AV supporter but its time 4 a change..I think we should wait untill the off season though because I think there will be some coaching changes from other teams and there will be some quality replacements 4 AV..I think the team has tuned him out since last year and his time has come to an end here..I wouldnt be opposed to bringing in Lindy Ruff however..I like his hard nosed approach and this team can use a good kick in the ass..I'm getting sick of there work ethic as of late..I still love AV and he has done some good things with this team but its time to move on

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03-17-2013, 12:37 AM
  #386
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Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
I'm wary of Laviolette. Look at his record with all the teams he has been with. After the first season it's all downhill. That's a disturbing trend.
Agreed. I do like Laviolette but Philly's disaster of a season is a bit disconcerting, never mind the trend he has. Personally, I want one of Cooper, Eakins or Boucher.

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03-17-2013, 12:37 AM
  #387
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Originally Posted by GingersRULE View Post
I've always been an AV supporter but its time 4 a change..I think we should wait untill the off season though because I think there will be some coaching changes from other teams and there will be some quality replacements 4 AV..I think the team has tuned him out since last year and his time has come to an end here..I wouldnt be opposed to bringing in Lindy Ruff however..I like his hard nosed approach and this team can use a good kick in the ass..I'm getting sick of there work ethic as of late..I still love AV and he has done some good things with this team but its time to move on
I think the hot commodities in coaching right now are Cooper and Eakins in the minors, and I dont think either one will available if we wait that long. Good coaches dont just become available as conveniently as you think they do.

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03-17-2013, 12:38 AM
  #388
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I'd rank the suitors.
1. Cooper
2. Eakins
3. Boucher
4. Lavvy
5. Anybody but AV

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03-17-2013, 12:40 AM
  #389
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Time to bring this back. Curious to see if anything happens at least with the assistants, even if not AV.
Get rid of them all I say. Time to clean house.

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03-17-2013, 01:04 AM
  #390
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lol at av in the press conference. they asked about the 5 on 3 he said how it's not working and that's an understatement. he said how it was the top players out there. lol, this guy will never ever take any responsibility for this team sucking.

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03-17-2013, 01:05 AM
  #391
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lol at av in the press conference. they asked about the 5 on 3 he said how it's not working and that's an understatement. he said how it was the top players out there. lol, this guy will never ever take any responsibility for this team sucking.
It's funny the difference between Babcock and AV. Babcock has tackled any struggles by his team by owning up to his mistakes and mostly blames himself this season. Meanwhile hell will freeze over before AV ever admits that he might've made a mistake at any point.

Even when his guys aren't executing what he thinks is a good gameplan, Babcock has blamed himself for not getting them executing.

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03-17-2013, 01:10 AM
  #392
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I have seen several complaints calling the Canucks only show up to play once in a while or don't play 60 minute game.

I don't think that's the case.

I think our players do give their effort most of the time (maybe except Bieksa). However, they simply don't have enough pure skill nor hockey sense. Most of our players are described as "have a good north-south game... 2 way forward... 2 way defensemen".

The problem is that they don't have much craftiness outside Sedins. And our supposed to be good 2-way players are not particularly good in any area.

And our supposed to be defensive specialists (players not expected to contribute offensively) lack hockey sense and end up becomming liability on the ice.

I believe this is mostly due to AV's preference for no skill over pure skill (or simply favoring his favorites). We just have too many similar type of players. I wish AV can learn how to make 1 + 1 = 3 or simply get lost.

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Old
03-17-2013, 01:28 AM
  #393
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Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
It's funny the difference between Babcock and AV. Babcock has tackled any struggles by his team by owning up to his mistakes and mostly blames himself this season. Meanwhile hell will freeze over before AV ever admits that he might've made a mistake at any point.

Even when his guys aren't executing what he thinks is a good gameplan, Babcock has blamed himself for not getting them executing.
Both sides of the same coin, It is never always the coach and it is never not the coach, both are just ways of trying to, well, give sound bites to the media.

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03-17-2013, 01:32 AM
  #394
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Both sides of the same coin, It is never always the coach and it is never not the coach, both are just ways of trying to, well, give sound bites to the media.
Considering AV's solution to fixing the PP was making them do push-ups, I don't think it's just sound bites. This is a guy that truly doesn't believe he's doing anything wrong.

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03-17-2013, 01:39 AM
  #395
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I'm a little on the fence regarding the PP. Sure, we have a PP coach and he should be coming up with something, but the PP is a time of pure skill and those players just are not getting it done. They're the ones on the ice, if they cant break coverage, recover pucks, screen, get shot through etc etc. it is on them.

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03-17-2013, 01:44 AM
  #396
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Considering AV's solution to fixing the PP was making them do push-ups, I don't think it's just sound bites. This is a guy that truly doesn't believe he's doing anything wrong.
Not entirely true he, has in fact tried to implement some tactical changes also, My guess is the push up thing was to motivate and teach accountability sort of a drill the army would do.

On truly believe he's doing anything wrong, is kind of relative to the individual, by that I mean, he knows (I would hope) that they have played crap, but you do things that you think are right, and if they don't work, you look at why. Treating success and failure the same way, a chance to get better.

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03-17-2013, 01:46 AM
  #397
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I'm a little on the fence regarding the PP. Sure, we have a PP coach and he should be coming up with something, but the PP is a time of pure skill and those players just are not getting it done. They're the ones on the ice, if they cant break coverage, recover pucks, screen, get shot through etc etc. it is on them.
One of the biggest problems on the PP are zone entries and puck retrieval. That's mostly on the coach. Even in-zone setup is largely on the coach and not the players. Bad players can't make a good setup go, but good players can't make a **** setup go either. Best example being Pens in 09-10 (I believe it was then).

Even if they iron out all the kinks in their execution, it's still not a PP setup that's going to get them a lot of goals. This is why Newell Brown got fired in Anaheim.


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Old
03-17-2013, 01:49 AM
  #398
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I'm a little on the fence regarding the PP. Sure, we have a PP coach and he should be coming up with something, but the PP is a time of pure skill and those players just are not getting it done. They're the ones on the ice, if they cant break coverage, recover pucks, screen, get shot through etc etc. it is on them.
Not if the setup plays and easily predictable. Every team knows precisely what we will do and that we are wholly reliant on the Sedins' cycle game to score. We do not use Garrison, who is clearly our best shooter. Edler is tentative and no one has seen fit to work with him. Ballard is never even given a chance in the lineup, never mind on the powerplay and someone needs to tell Hamhuis he can't shoot, so stop trying.

AV is an arrogant schmuck, who cannot see fault in his own design. 0/33 and he's saying "well, the best guys were out" followed by a stupid little chuckle? Moron.

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03-17-2013, 01:51 AM
  #399
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Yeah, the name 'Mr. Gant' didn't come to be for no reason. Ask Montreal fans. At some point you'd think they'd get a lucky bounce on those PP's. But nope... the PP setup can't possibly be wrong. Just all bad luck for what must be 10 straight games now.

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Originally Posted by TheCanuckInOttawa View Post
I have seen several complaints calling the Canucks only show up to play once in a while or don't play 60 minute game.

I don't think that's the case.

I think our players do give their effort most of the time (maybe except Bieksa). However, they simply don't have enough pure skill nor hockey sense. Most of our players are described as "have a good north-south game... 2 way forward... 2 way defensemen".

The problem is that they don't have much craftiness outside Sedins. And our supposed to be good 2-way players are not particularly good in any area.

And our supposed to be defensive specialists (players not expected to contribute offensively) lack hockey sense and end up becomming liability on the ice.

I believe this is mostly due to AV's preference for no skill over pure skill (or simply favoring his favorites). We just have too many similar type of players. I wish AV can learn how to make 1 + 1 = 3 or simply get lost.
I tend to think they have enough offensive skill to do well, because they've all produced at a good rate in the past, but are being held back by the system. Guys like Booth, Raymond, Higgins and even Hansen are capable of Top 6 production. I seriously think the perception that we don't have enough skill is due to us failing on shootout opportunities so much so often - and it certainly doesn't help.

Perhaps you could make a case that there aren't enough good shooters on this team, but right now they aren't even generating enough chances out there to begin with that a good shot is rendered irrelevant. Detroit's D-corps is supposed to be pretty meh this year, yet for much of the game the Nucks' forwards were stifled outside of the top line and we had nothing going.

My biggest worry is that the injuries and lack of centers are accepted as an excuse and that he'll be retained. Ottawa is in much the same situation yet they get by with much less to work with.

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03-17-2013, 01:51 AM
  #400
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When is this **** going to be fired. He is obviously not making the players work hard enough, the ****ing D is the problem and AV still blame the top players and the pp for our loss in games. He needs to **** his ego.

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