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Everyone seems to think Tavares is a lock. I don't think so.

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Old
03-17-2013, 01:20 AM
  #76
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Picking a team to win an intense 60-minute hockey game is different than picking an All-Star team.

You have got to pick your team based on various roles, possible situations, etc. This means picking players capable of scoring, playing defense, being productive on the PP, preventing goals on the PK, winning key faceoffs, and winning battles along the boards and in the corners.

You need to pick the right mix of players, and have a defined role for everyone on the team.

Staal - Crosby - Giroux
Stamkos - Getzlaf - Perry
Richards - Toews - Nash
Staal - Bergeron - Marchand

I don't think Tavares beats out either Crosby or Getzlaf for a scoring line centre spot.

He also isn't suited for a scoring line wing spot when compared to the players I listed. His game doesn't translate to the wing as well as these players.

Do you trust him, 5-on-5, to play solid defense? Do you trust him every 3rd shift to help preserve a lead? I don't trust him nearly as much as I trust the players I listed on lines 3/4.

I also don't trust him on the PK to kill a crucial SH-situation, nor is he suited to win key faceoffs.

People will say "he has X amount of offensive skill". Yes, he does. But the above roster is loaded with offensive talent. If those two scoring lines (not to mention the complementary scoring support you would receive from the last two lines) wouldn't prove to be enough, then I can't see how adding 1 more scorer would make a magical difference.

When building a hockey team, once you get past the top 2 lines (core scoring-line players), then you should start trying to build a team where players have defined roles.

That said, maybe I pick Tavares as a 13th/14th forward, as a PP specialist. I wouldn't be giving him much ice-time 5-on-5 though.


Last edited by joe_shannon_1983*: 03-17-2013 at 01:28 AM.
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03-17-2013, 01:21 AM
  #77
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I would rather have M.Richards or Bergeron than Duchene.

duchene wont be accounted on offensively and his defensive game is nowhere near the above 3 players. Plus he lacks the experience, both Richards and Bergeron have won cups.

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03-17-2013, 01:21 AM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luki here View Post
do you think getzlaf > tavares?



I think Team Canada would view Getzlaf > Tavares.

No doubt in my mind.

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03-17-2013, 01:22 AM
  #79
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I don't see how you can leave out Marty "4th in NHL scoring" St. Louis from Team Canada unless he massively declines next season.

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03-17-2013, 01:24 AM
  #80
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marchand wont make it lol, might as well give Lucic an invite too haha.

tavares will be on cause hes a game breaker.

Getzlaf, toews, E. stall, Richards, bergeron will be the guys relied on defensively. tavares will be a top 6 forward relied on to produce.

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03-17-2013, 01:25 AM
  #81
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He's the closest forward to being a lock outside of Crosby and stamkos. No way he isn't on the team barring injury. He's the only reason the Islanders aren't complete garbage.

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03-17-2013, 01:29 AM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyBoy View Post
I think Team Canada would view Getzlaf > Tavares.

No doubt in my mind.
Except Getzlaf will be one of the older guys on the team and he wont be counted on as a top 6 forward to produce. He will be there for his 2 way game and mentor the younger guys like Tavares (who will be on the top 2 lines).

Same goes for Perry and staal...these guys have been here before and will be leaned on defensively to compliment the young guys like Tavares, Giroux, Stamkos who dont have the defnesive games that they do.

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03-17-2013, 01:31 AM
  #83
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I very much doubt they are not going to expect Getzlaf to produce.

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03-17-2013, 01:31 AM
  #84
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Centers that make it for sure

Crosby, Towes, Getzlaf

will he make it over Richards(LA), Bergeron, Spezza, Thorton

winger that make it for sure

Perry, Igilna, St louis, Staal, Nash, (Giroux and Stamkos will play wing)

will he make it over

Marlau, Carter, Doan, Benn, Kane(Jets)

at the end of the day he will probably make it just on name recognition, but at this point i dont thin he is a lock

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03-17-2013, 01:35 AM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Puckgenius View Post
Except Getzlaf will be one of the older guys on the team and he wont be counted on as a top 6 forward to produce. He will be there for his 2 way game and mentor the younger guys like Tavares (who will be on the top 2 lines).

Same goes for Perry and staal...these guys have been here before and will be leaned on defensively to compliment the young guys like Tavares, Giroux, Stamkos who dont have the defnesive games that they do.
So you seem to think Getzlaf-Perry will be on the 3rd line?

But that only leaves 1 regular centre spot left.

I have trouble imagining any scenario where one of Toews or Bergeron doesn't have a regular shift.

Yes, Toews was 4C and Bergeron was the spare back in 2010. But both have grown and developed quite a lot since then.

In 2014, I would have Toews as 3C and Bergeron 4C. Both will give you elite two-way play, and dictate the play for their entire shift. You will get automatic possession, due to their faceoff abilities, and spend the next 45-60 seconds with control of the puck. Your goals-for/goals-against ratio, with either of these two on the ice, is going to be very high.

Which leaves 2C as a fight between Getzlaf vs. Tavares, a fight I can't see Tavares winning.

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03-17-2013, 01:43 AM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Puckgenius View Post
Except Getzlaf will be one of the older guys on the team and he wont be counted on as a top 6 forward to produce. He will be there for his 2 way game and mentor the younger guys like Tavares (who will be on the top 2 lines).

Same goes for Perry and staal...these guys have been here before and will be leaned on defensively to compliment the young guys like Tavares, Giroux, Stamkos who dont have the defnesive games that they do.
Canada has better options to play a two-way role than Getzlaf.

Toews, Bergeron, M. Richards, J. Staal, etc. All of these are players suited to play on the 3rd/4th lines of a best-on-best tournament.

I think Getzlaf will be in the top 6, or not on the team at all.

I think he has the inside-track for 2C, ahead of Tavares.

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03-17-2013, 01:44 AM
  #87
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1 Crosby
2 Getzlaf
3 Towes
4 Bergeron
5 Spezza
6 Stamkos
7 Giroux
8 Thorton
9 M Richards

all of them i would take over Tavares

but he will probably make it and play a small role to get experience

people need to remember me has never made the playoffs

never played big games

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03-17-2013, 01:44 AM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Puckgenius View Post
Except Getzlaf will be one of the older guys on the team and he wont be counted on as a top 6 forward to produce. He will be there for his 2 way game and mentor the younger guys like Tavares (who will be on the top 2 lines).

Same goes for Perry and staal...these guys have been here before and will be leaned on defensively to compliment the young guys like Tavares, Giroux, Stamkos who dont have the defnesive games that they do.
Seriously? Are we talking about the same Ryan Getzlaf? He'll be 28...In his prime at the olympics next year. He's one of the best playmakers in the world, and on top of that, he's super physical. He is a lock to be one of the centers, and will be counted on to put up points. Give him Nash and Perry, and he will dominate more than any line Taveres could be put on.

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03-17-2013, 01:52 AM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Puckgenius View Post
marchand wont make it lol, might as well give Lucic an invite too haha.
Marchand was a "dark-horse" I threw on my above stated roster.

I think he deserves a serious look.

He is pure-Hell to play against, 5-on-5. He also is very good on the PK, and is a genuine SHG threat. To top it off, he is someone who also can produce some offense.

Picking Marchand isn't like picking Rob Zamuner in 1998.

It is more similar to picking Brenden Morrow in 2010.

I really like what a guy like Marchand would bring to Team Canada in a 4th-line/PK role. Especially if you paired him with Bergeron, with whom he has a lot of chemistry and proven success with.


Last edited by joe_shannon_1983*: 03-17-2013 at 01:59 AM.
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03-17-2013, 02:09 AM
  #90
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I'm pretty comfortable saying Marchand has zero chance at making the team.

There's literally a whole squad of forwards who would make it over him if they wanted a guy to fill a 4th line/PK.

The fact you're arguing for Marchand on the team over a player like Tavares is hilarious.

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03-17-2013, 02:15 AM
  #91
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can he make it? yes

is he a lock? no

Crosby
Getzlaf
Towes
Perry
Nash
Igilna
St Louis
Stamkos
Giroux
Staal

are locks

Bergeron
Spezza
Thorton
M Richards

are some i could see make it over him

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03-17-2013, 02:19 AM
  #92
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These threads are why i root against Canadians regardless of who they play.

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03-17-2013, 02:25 AM
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by visor wearing goon View Post
I'm pretty comfortable saying Marchand has zero chance at making the team.

There's literally a whole squad of forwards who would make it over him if they wanted a guy to fill a 4th line/PK.

The fact you're arguing for Marchand on the team over a player like Tavares is hilarious.
But it isn't Marchand vs. Tavares. They aren't in competition with each other.

When building a team, you don't pick the top 12/13/14 best forwards.

You build based on roles, duties, situations, etc.

Do you think Brenden Morrow ranked higher on the list of "best players" than Martin St. Louis did in 2010? Of course not. But who got picked, and who didn't?

What about Joe Thornton vs. Michael Peca in 2002? I remember Thornton was either leading the league in points or was among the leaders when the team was picked. But picking him only made sense in a scoring-line role, and the team already had Lemieux and Sakic for those lines. Thus, he was left off.

Picking the right team is all based on how the player fits into the mold of the team.

I have already argued why I don't think Tavares should be picked as the second-line C. I have already argued why I don't think Tavares should be picked as a winger.

So, what do you do with him? Pick him for a checking line? I don't think so. Would you really want Tavares out there, playing a checking-line role? Or would others be better suited?

Marchand as a 4th-line winger makes far more sense than Tavares as a 4th-line winger.

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03-17-2013, 02:27 AM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tml145 View Post
1 Crosby
2 Getzlaf
3 Towes
4 Bergeron
5 Spezza
6 Stamkos
7 Giroux
8 Thorton
9 M Richards

all of them i would take over Tavares

but he will probably make it and play a small role to get experience

people need to remember me has never made the playoffs

never played big games
He's dominated every international tournament he's ever played in.

Tavares has never been in the playoffs so he's not good enough for team Canada. Solid.

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03-17-2013, 02:30 AM
  #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulinho View Post
These threads are why i root against Canadians regardless of who they play.
Why?

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03-17-2013, 02:30 AM
  #96
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I agree that Crosby, Getzlaf, and Toews are lock for 3 of the 4 centre spots.

I also think it's close to a lock that guys like Stamkos and Staal are moved to the wing.

Other borderline guys like Giroux and Bergeron would most like come as wingers if they make it, too.

So IMO it likely comes down to a battle between Thornton, Spezza, and Tavares for the other centre spot.....and I'm not sure Tavares is a clear choice over either of those guys.

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03-17-2013, 02:38 AM
  #97
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I don't understand how he isn't a lock. He's ranked in the top five best forwards in the world by nearly everyone on hf. Subtract Malkin and he's at worst the third best forward in the world at Canada some disposal. So, how do you not take the third best forward in the entire world?

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03-17-2013, 02:54 AM
  #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Syckle78 View Post
I don't understand how he isn't a lock. He's ranked in the top five best forwards in the world by nearly everyone on hf. Subtract Malkin and he's at worst the third best forward in the world at Canada some disposal. So, how do you not take the third best forward in the entire world?
Because Getzlaf is criminally underrated. He's out-producing Tavares in a much harder conference, is more physical, and plays better defense

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03-17-2013, 02:57 AM
  #99
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well getzlaf is better, but he doesn't play in a harder conference.

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03-17-2013, 03:00 AM
  #100
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Because Getzlaf is criminally underrated. He's out-producing Tavares in a much harder conference, is more physical, and plays better defense
They have the same amount of points and Tavares has more goals.

Last year Getzlaf had 57 points and Tavares had 81.

Every team focuses on Tavares while Getzlaf has Perry, Ryan, Selanne as secondary threats.

Getzlaf is underrated. And he will be on Team Canada. But Don't try to act like he's way beter than Tavares because he's simply not.

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