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Everyone seems to think Tavares is a lock. I don't think so.

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Old
03-17-2013, 03:00 AM
  #101
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Originally Posted by zeke View Post
well getzlaf is better, but he doesn't play in a harder conference.
He plays against tougher and more physical defenses than Tavares, that's for sure.

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03-17-2013, 03:01 AM
  #102
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Canada often makes a mistake of just randomly taking all the most talented guys and put them in a blender hoping something good will come out. But the fact is that they haven't even won a medal, since NHL players were allowed, when the games took place outside North America. On paper it always looks like you could just give the medals to Canada, but in reality when you are playing NHL superstars with 4th line minutes, the team gets squashed by a hard working European team on the larger surface. Sure, if it was an 80-game season, Canada would probably win, but it's just a very short two week sprint, where chemistry is everything.

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03-17-2013, 03:02 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by AngelDuck View Post
He plays against tougher and more physical defenses than Tavares, that's for sure.
Ya and he also has 3 wingers that are better players than anyone else on the Islanders. Give Tavares 2 of Selanne, Perry, and Ryan and watch what happens.

Hard to say the Pacific is a better division than the Atlantic.

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03-17-2013, 03:04 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by giddy up View Post
They have the same amount of points and Tavares has more goals.

Last year Getzlaf had 57 points and Tavares had 81.

Every team focuses on Tavares while Getzlaf has Perry, Ryan, Selanne as secondary threats.

Getzlaf is underrated. And he will be on Team Canada. But Don't try to act like he's way beter than Tavares because he's simply not.
Here we go using last year as proof. It's been discussed before...the whole Ducks team sucked last year including Getzlaf. It was just a horrible snakebit season for the whole team. Getzlaf has been around 1.15 PPG for the three seasons before last year. He has 5 (including this one) PPG seasons. Tavares has how many? Yet you sit here and use his 81 point season in 82 games as some sort of proof that he's accomplished something. He's a great player, no doubt, but he can't impact the game like Getzlaf can from what I've seen.

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03-17-2013, 03:04 AM
  #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by giddy up View Post
They have the same amount of points and Tavares has more goals.

Last year Getzlaf had 57 points and Tavares had 81.

Every team focuses on Tavares while Getzlaf has Perry, Ryan, Selanne as secondary threats.

Getzlaf is underrated. And he will be on Team Canada. But Don't try to act like he's way beter than Tavares because he's simply not.
Whether he is objectively better makes no difference.

He was there in 2010 when Team Canada won the Gold Medal. He was there in 2007 when Anaheim won the Stanley Cup.

He is still a highly skilled and highly productive player.

I view Tavares and Getzlaf as being in direct competition with one another. Neither would be ideal on the wing. Neither would be ideal in a defensive/checking role. Therefore, I believe the 2C role is what both are competing over.

Based on what I said above, I think Getzlaf wins that battle.

There is no chance that someone such as Steve Yzerman (a proven winner) takes Tavares ahead of Getzlaf.

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03-17-2013, 03:05 AM
  #106
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about this getzlaf and tavares discussion, they're both locks imo.

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03-17-2013, 03:07 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by WangMustGo View Post
Ya and he also has 3 wingers that are better players than anyone else on the Islanders. Give Tavares 2 of Selanne, Perry, and Ryan and watch what happens.

Hard to say the Pacific is a better division than the Atlantic.
He doesn't play with 2 of Selanne, Perry, and Ryan. He's played with Perry his whole career, and this season he's played with Kyle Palmieri and Matt Beleskey most of the time. Hardly a superstar LW there. Taveres' linemates are hardly scrubs. Moulson has a higher PPG than Perry this year. And Moulson and Perry both play with great centers so don't use that as an excuse

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03-17-2013, 03:10 AM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack DiBiase View Post
Canada often makes a mistake of just randomly taking all the most talented guys and put them in a blender hoping something good will come out. But the fact is that they haven't even won a medal, since NHL players were allowed, when the games took place outside North America. On paper it always looks like you could just give the medals to Canada, but in reality when you are playing NHL superstars with 4th line minutes, the team gets squashed by a hard working European team on the larger surface. Sure, if it was an 80-game season, Canada would probably win, but it's just a very short two week sprint, where chemistry is everything.
Which is why you go with:

3rd line: M. Richards - Toews - Nash

- Gelled very quickly in 2010, and was the best line in the medal-round.

4th line: Marchand - Bergeron - J. Staal

- Bergeron and Marchand have excellent chemistry. Staal is very versatile and can provide anything you ask of him.

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03-17-2013, 03:12 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by AngelDuck View Post
Here we go using last year as proof. It's been discussed before...the whole Ducks team sucked last year including Getzlaf. It was just a horrible snakebit season for the whole team. Getzlaf has been around 1.15 PPG for the three seasons before last year. He has 5 (including this one) PPG seasons. Tavares has how many? Yet you sit here and use his 81 point season in 82 games as some sort of proof that he's accomplished something. He's a great player, no doubt, but he can't impact the game like Getzlaf can from what I've seen.
If you don't think Tavares impacts the game as much as Getzlaf, then you haven't watched him enough. Take JT off the Islanders and we are royally ****ed. I do think 81 points with very little help is impressive. Imagine if Tavares played with Perry or Ryan.

Both will be on the team, despite what the OP thinks. no point in arguing.

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03-17-2013, 03:14 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by giddy up View Post
If you don't think Tavares impacts the game as much as Getzlaf, then you haven't watched him enough. Take JT off the Islanders and we are royally ****ed. I do think 81 points with very little help is impressive. Imagine if Tavares played with Perry or Ryan.

Both will be on the team, despite what the OP thinks. no point in arguing.
Take Getzlaf off the Ducks and we're picking 6th again. With him on the team we're 2nd in the conference...I can play that game too.

I agree. No point in arguing further than this ...cheers

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03-17-2013, 03:20 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by JohnnyBoy View Post
Picking a team to win an intense 60-minute hockey game is different than picking an All-Star team.

You have got to pick your team based on various roles, possible situations, etc. This means picking players capable of scoring, playing defense, being productive on the PP, preventing goals on the PK, winning key faceoffs, and winning battles along the boards and in the corners.

You need to pick the right mix of players, and have a defined role for everyone on the team.
I agree 100%. You may a new poster here, but you sure know your hockey.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyBoy View Post
Which is why you go with:

3rd line: M. Richards - Toews - Nash

- Gelled very quickly in 2010, and was the best line in the medal-round.

4th line: Marchand - Bergeron - J. Staal

- Bergeron and Marchand have excellent chemistry. Staal is very versatile and can provide anything you ask of him.
I really hope you aren't actually Steve Yzerman, because those lines would be a real b**** to play against. As a Finnish hockey fan, I sincerely hope that Canada would roll guys like Tavares or Perry in the 4th line. That would be like walking in a park for us.

BTW, what about Andrew Ladd in the bottom lines?

Also, when the games are played on the larger IIHF ice, they should really consider speedy guys like Duchene and Hall for the team.

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03-17-2013, 07:29 AM
  #112
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But it isn't Marchand vs. Tavares. They aren't in competition with each other.

When building a team, you don't pick the top 12/13/14 best forwards.

You build based on roles, duties, situations, etc.

Do you think Brenden Morrow ranked higher on the list of "best players" than Martin St. Louis did in 2010? Of course not. But who got picked, and who didn't?

What about Joe Thornton vs. Michael Peca in 2002? I remember Thornton was either leading the league in points or was among the leaders when the team was picked. But picking him only made sense in a scoring-line role, and the team already had Lemieux and Sakic for those lines. Thus, he was left off.

Picking the right team is all based on how the player fits into the mold of the team.

I have already argued why I don't think Tavares should be picked as the second-line C. I have already argued why I don't think Tavares should be picked as a winger.

So, what do you do with him? Pick him for a checking line? I don't think so. Would you really want Tavares out there, playing a checking-line role? Or would others be better suited?

Marchand as a 4th-line winger makes far more sense than Tavares as a 4th-line winger.
You have not argued very well why he shouldn't make it as a winger. While he certainly lacks the top notch speed, he is one of the most effective players in the league fighting for pucks on the boards. It is my favorite aspect of his game to watch as an Islanders fan. The guy is not just a goal scorer, but certainly must take on the brunt of that role on the Islanders. You are completely underestimating just how good of a player Tavares is. He should be on the team in a role whether it be as a C or winger.

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03-17-2013, 07:34 AM
  #113
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Well the NHL releasing its players for the Olympics is not a lock, so sure.

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03-17-2013, 07:41 AM
  #114
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Tavares is one of the 13 best forwards Canada has. They'll find somewhere to put him.

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03-17-2013, 08:06 AM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Paulinho View Post
Tavares will be perfectly fine at RW, hopefully Giroux is his center. I think their games compliment each other very well.

Bergeron Giroux Tavares

or

Staal Giroux Tavares
I would love to see Tavares on wing. Nice to see him be a score first guy and use his awesome shooting ability. Tavares is a lock and the OP is obviously a hater.

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03-17-2013, 08:08 AM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Jack DiBiase View Post
I agree 100%. You may a new poster here, but you sure know your hockey.


I really hope you aren't actually Steve Yzerman, because those lines would be a real b**** to play against. As a Finnish hockey fan, I sincerely hope that Canada would roll guys like Tavares or Perry in the 4th line. That would be like walking in a park for us.

BTW, what about Andrew Ladd in the bottom lines?

Also, when the games are played on the larger IIHF ice, they should really consider speedy guys like Duchene and Hall for the team.
Nobody is worrying about Finland.

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03-17-2013, 08:12 AM
  #117
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Originally Posted by JohnnyBoy View Post
Picking a team to win an intense 60-minute hockey game is different than picking an All-Star team.

You have got to pick your team based on various roles, possible situations, etc. This means picking players capable of scoring, playing defense, being productive on the PP, preventing goals on the PK, winning key faceoffs, and winning battles along the boards and in the corners.

You need to pick the right mix of players, and have a defined role for everyone on the team.

Staal - Crosby - Giroux
Stamkos - Getzlaf - Perry
Richards - Toews - Nash
Staal - Bergeron - Marchand

I don't think Tavares beats out either Crosby or Getzlaf for a scoring line centre spot.

He also isn't suited for a scoring line wing spot when compared to the players I listed. His game doesn't translate to the wing as well as these players.

Do you trust him, 5-on-5, to play solid defense? Do you trust him every 3rd shift to help preserve a lead? I don't trust him nearly as much as I trust the players I listed on lines 3/4.

I also don't trust him on the PK to kill a crucial SH-situation, nor is he suited to win key faceoffs.

People will say "he has X amount of offensive skill". Yes, he does. But the above roster is loaded with offensive talent. If those two scoring lines (not to mention the complementary scoring support you would receive from the last two lines) wouldn't prove to be enough, then I can't see how adding 1 more scorer would make a magical difference.

When building a hockey team, once you get past the top 2 lines (core scoring-line players), then you should start trying to build a team where players have defined roles.

That said, maybe I pick Tavares as a 13th/14th forward, as a PP specialist. I wouldn't be giving him much ice-time 5-on-5 though.
Pretty obvious you dont watch Tavares play much. He is terrific on the PP and is very good on the faceoff not to mention can play wing effectively. You are just a hater. The guy is easily one of Canadas best players and one of the best players in the NHL.

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03-17-2013, 08:51 AM
  #118
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This is, what, a six game tournament? Who cares about systems and being "suited for a position". If Canada needs to have 6 centers, they'll do it and just play two of them at wing. These are world class athlete and Tavares has earned a spot.

There aren't many players in the world better than him, let alone players from one country.

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03-17-2013, 09:26 AM
  #119
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Tavares will be on that team....

Not sure why alot of people are saying iginla is a lock....

I think this is the year that some of the older guys lose spots (pass the torch so to speak) to the young bucks....

2010 roster players I don't see on team sochi

iginla
thornton
marleau
brodeur
morrow
heatley
pronger (concussed)
niedermayer (retired)

and maybe richards....

potential replacements

neal
tavares
benn
carter
petrangelo
stamkos
letang
eberle
hall
skinner
duchene
lucic
couture
price
subban
j staal
ward

anyway you cut it Canada is going to have a strong team....

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03-17-2013, 09:33 AM
  #120
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Are Islanders fans or rather Tavares fans this insecure that they cant see why Getzlaf ( given he doesnt get lazy again ) might be a better option as a center in top 2 lines ?
The reason why i think Perry or Getzlaf would be left out is they arent the most disciplined players available. Really Physical + hot head and it woulnd surprise anyone if they get 5 majors in the worst possible time.

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03-17-2013, 09:35 AM
  #121
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It's funny, you can always tell the people who don't watch Tavares by how they describe him. And you can also tell when those same people look at the stat sheets and argue Moulson and Boyes are good players. Tavares is the exact kind of forward Canada needs. He brings a blend of high-end skill, grit, competitiveness, and clutch play. I think he would thrive playing with elite players at the Olympics. And for those who say Moulson and Boyes are good players, I would kill to get rid of these guys. Why do you think most Isles fans feel the same way? Any time either of Boyes or Moulson does anything productive it's usually a result of JT's hard work. Rarely is it the other way around. Moulson's whole game is to park in front of the net and wait for a sick pass. Literally that's it. Those two guys rarely win puck battles, cause turnovers, or lead a quality rush. Ever. The two times Tavares has played in the WCs with real NHLers he ripped it up. I think Canada would be crazy to pass up on him.

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03-17-2013, 09:38 AM
  #122
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Unless he is injured, he is a lock. He is a world class playmaker and finisher. As for his defense, he is fine. He is a minus because Moulson and Boyes are weak defensively. If Canada doesn't want him I will personally help him pass the US immigration exam so he can play for the US!

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03-17-2013, 09:39 AM
  #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LSnow View Post
Are Islanders fans or rather Tavares fans this insecure that they cant see why Getzlaf ( given he doesnt get lazy again ) might be a better option as a center in top 2 lines ?
The reason why i think Perry or Getzlaf would be left out is they arent the most disciplined players available. Really Physical + hot head and it woulnd surprise anyone if they get 5 majors in the worst possible time.

Most are just arguing that he belongs on the team.

By the way, I love the "given he doesn't get lazy again" caveat on Getzlaf. That would be the last thing you need to worry about with Tavares. The guy gives it his all every single shift he is out there.

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03-17-2013, 09:45 AM
  #124
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Tavares is strong on his skates and goes into the dirty areas better than anyone in the league today. He may not be experienced on the wing but his game would transition easily to the Right Wing which is where he sets up on the PP. In fact many Islander fans felt he might be better suited for the wing early in his career. You put him on the RW on the 2nd line with Giroux centering him and i wouldn't be surprised if he led the Bronze Medal winning Canadians in goals.

Better than Crosby (That's Sid's bread and butter)? I love Tavares and I think he's a lock, but no to the statement.

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03-17-2013, 10:12 AM
  #125
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I may be biased as an Isles fan, but Tavares is a lock for the team.

Not only is he talented enough for the team, he also fits the political profile that Team Canada seems to gravitate towards. He was on the 2008 and 2009 WJC teams where they both won those years. He was the face of the team in 2009 and he did perform at a high level that tourney. Since the Isles suck, he's also been on the WC team every year since he entered the league. He has consistently been one of the top performers on all those teams, sometimes without getting premium ice time like his first year on the team. The OP mentions a proven track record... I think he already has an impressive Team Canada track record since this is about the Olympics/International play.

Oh yeah, I might add that Tavares has experience playing on the wing on the big ice from the aforementioned stints on the WC teams. I'd also like to point out that he was playing wing during his time in the Swiss League during the lockout. His stats were meh - 28 games with 17 goals and 25 assists. So I would think that his versatility to play either position is a good thing with so many centers expected to make the team?

Yeah, Tavares doesn't stand out all that much in terms of his physical tools. His greatest asset is his hockey IQ. He understands the game at a high level which allows him to adapt to either position. Again, I don't see why that's not a good thing. In my opinion, the good far outweighs the bad when assessing his candidacy for Sochi.

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