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Let's Speculate on our long-term D-corps

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Old
03-17-2013, 09:31 AM
  #26
Rock On
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For 2013-2014, I expect Kaberle to be bought out, Weber dealt, Bouillon inked for another year, Tinordi making the team and the other prospects not making it.

Top 7 : Subban, Markov, Gorges, Diaz, Emelin, Tinordi, Bouillon
Top Callups : Pateryn and Beaulieu

And as a contender team, they may want to get a rental at the deadline

2014-2015 will be a tough year for MB. He'll have a deal new contracts with Markov, hypothetically Bouillon, Diaz and Emelin's agents. It's hard to predict but I guess Markov will take a paycut for 2 years and both Diaz and Emelin will get long term contracts. However, Beaulieu is a wild card, if he's ready to be top 4 ( which I doubt) Diaz will be gone. Bouillon will be gone too.

Top 7 : Subban, Markov, Gorges, Diaz, Emelin, Tinordi, Beaulieu.

After that, there's too much factors, but I like our D depth and depth over years

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Old
03-17-2013, 09:43 AM
  #27
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Gorges is top 4 and here for years. Markov is UFA after next year but will keep resigning after that if we want him, hes still top talent. PK will be resigned long term after next year and will take over from Markov as our top guy, still can improve defensively. Emelin is UFA after next year and must be resigned long term and he is top 4 material. Diaz is UFA after next year and is the big question. Diaz will command top 4 money as a UFA, ie $4M or so. Do we have essentially 5 guys playing top 4ish minutes and should we pay 5 guys as top 4 ? Thing is, it has worked nicely this year and Diaz is great insurance because you know why. Downside is we have less money for the forwards. Rounding things out you could resign Cubes for another year if needed but otherwise a couple of all those D prospects should be able to play at least bottom pairing minutes in the next season or two. We look good here, no need to get another D-man by trade or UFA, just make sure we resign our own guys.

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Old
03-17-2013, 09:47 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by PricePkPatch View Post
I know, but I thought his natural side was the right side.

Huh. So your telling me Tinordi actually was playing on his weak side yesterday?! Damn.
Yes he was , he was impressive he played on the left with Harrington on London and was on the left
When he played with Beaulieu even if they are both LD and left with commodore , pateryn... So yeah pretty impressive first game

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Old
03-17-2013, 10:09 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Markowicz View Post
It's an interesting question, but we're still in heavy speculation territory if you ask me. Guys like Dietz, Thrower, Nygren and Ellis could all be good nhlers, but it's hard to know atm. What I know is this:

Subban is our no. 1 D for years to come.
Markov is a great player, but he's becoming a liability defensively. If he wants the same contract in 2014, i think we should let him go, if we cant persuade him to take a pay cut.
Gorges is our next captain, and should be here for awhile.
Emelin is playing well and still improving. I think he's one of our more under appreciated players.
Diaz has impressed me a lot this year with his defensive awareness, he's a quick learner, and a really good PP guy.
Bouillon is a great team guy, and they should probably re-sign him for another year contract next year.
Kaberle is gone.
Tinordi will be part of the D corps next year for sure, in some capacity.(maybe earlier)
Beaulieu is a bit of a wildcard. He might end up being trade bait if something huge comes along.
"Markov is becoming a defensive liability" ???? Really? Do you notice that he's constantly paired against the opposing teams' top forwards and does a pretty good job containing them? I think Markov plays the type of cerebral game (offensively and defensively) that will make him an effective top 4 D well into his late 30s. I hope he plays his whole career with the habs. Regarding him being injury prone. Well, some players just figure it out over time and learn not to get injured anymore. For example, compare Saku Koivu's first and second half of his career.

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Old
03-17-2013, 10:16 AM
  #30
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What happened to Weber? I don't see him on anyone's list.
If you had read last night's GDT you'd know he's out with an arrow in the knee. Sounds career threatening !

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Old
03-17-2013, 10:18 AM
  #31
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Does Markov have a NTC? If not, I think you trade him this summer. If the Habs have a good season again next year, it's difficult justifying trading a top4 D while being a serious contender for the cup. MB should also not risk losing him to UFA.

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Old
03-17-2013, 10:19 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Steve Shutt View Post
What happened to Weber? I don't see him on anyone's list.
Don't know how many games you have seen this season, or how closely you have been following along. Weber's as good as gone, the writing is on the wall. Why pencil him in for the future when it's obvious the team doesn't have him in their future plan.

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Old
03-17-2013, 10:21 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by BubbleGumPlant View Post
Does Markov have a NTC? If not, I think you trade him this summer. If the Habs have a good season again next year, it's difficult justifying trading a top4 D while being a serious contender for the cup. MB should also not risk losing him to UFA.
I tried getting people to consider trading Markov in a thread a few weeks back. Other than 1-2 people, this entire board would rather have the fuzzy warm feeling of having Markov finish his career with us rather than help the team move forward.

edit: link in case you want to see for yourself
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1340967

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Old
03-17-2013, 10:23 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by disturbedraven View Post
I tried getting people to consider trading Markov in a thread a few weeks back. Other than 1-2 people, this entire board would rather have the fuzzy warm feeling of having Markov finish his career with us rather than help the team move forward.

edit: link in case you want to see for yourself
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1340967
Many were still skeptical about Subban's ability to carry the load. Might be a different result now, if only slightly.

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Old
03-17-2013, 10:25 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by overlords View Post
Many were still skeptical about Subban's ability to carry the load. Might be a different result now, if only slightly.
No Excuses

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Old
03-17-2013, 10:28 AM
  #36
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Next year

Subban, Gorges, Markov, Emelin, Diaz, Bouillon will all be back

in two years, we have to ink PK long term, big money and we'll have to get new deal from Markov, Emelin and Diaz.... that's not going to happen, we will lose probably 2 out of 3 unless Markov accept a solid pay cut, that's where the Progression of Tinordi, Pateryn, Ellis, Beaulieu, Bennett, Dietz, Thrower and others might come into play the most... if Ellis and Pateryn develops into Gorges mode, don't be surprise if Josh get's on the move....

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Old
03-17-2013, 10:28 AM
  #37
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The 2012 draft has a lot of forward prospects but hardly any coming out of the three drafts prior.

There is a lack of NHL potential forward prospects in Hamilton currently (Leblanc, Bournival, and maybe Holland is all we have), but there are close to four NHL ready D in Hamilton with Nygren, Dietz, and Thrower about to join. As a result, I fully expect some to be traded for forward prospects to fill those needs while the 2012 draft class of forwards + guys like Pribyl and Kristo to make their way to Hamilton.

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Old
03-17-2013, 10:30 AM
  #38
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The big question mark is Markov and we should definitely wait and see with him. Let's not forget that when he signed his first big contract at 5.75m he gave us a discount, he's always avoided UFA to sign with us. He's one of our most loyal players and after Gauthier stuck by him in during his most trying time I have no doubt that he will be willing to leave money on the table to stay with us.

For those that are questioning Markov's defensive ability bear in mind he's barely played the last couple of years, his TOI is much higher than it should have to be and with the compressed schedule there's not a lot of practice time for him to work out the kinks in his game. Not too mention he's been going up against the opposition's best, Subban is taking over that role as we speak which means we won't have to rely on his defensive game quite as much.

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Old
03-17-2013, 10:56 AM
  #39
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As much as I'd be the first to applaud if we'd get a good return in the case of a Markov trade, I think a lot of people underestimate Markov's impact on our being #1 this season. I think we'd be better off with a 1-2 punch at defense consisting Subban and Markov, than pretty much anything we could get in return for Markov. Except, of course, if we fleece another GM.
Also I agree with the poster that says that Markov is the type of d-man that can be useful in his late 30s, being the type of player he is. If we can resign him at a decent contract, we are better off keeping him than losing a couple ranks in the standings.

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Old
03-17-2013, 11:09 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by PricePkPatch View Post
I know, but I thought his natural side was the right side.

Huh. So your telling me Tinordi actually was playing on his weak side yesterday?! Damn.
Tinordi has played Left Defence in every other game I ever saw him play in.

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Old
03-17-2013, 11:19 AM
  #41
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Absolutely no reason to trade Markov. He took a paycut to stay with us. He's still a very very good defenseman, extremely smart and can fill in on the top pairing for a few games from time to time.

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Old
03-17-2013, 11:29 AM
  #42
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Having to sign 3 Ds as UFAs in 2014 is going to be tough and expensive. I'm not sure what Emelin and Diaz will get in free agency, but consider this: Matt Carle got $5,5m as a UFA. If Diaz continues to progress like he has, at minimum we're looking at a $4m+ defenseman.

Then there's Emelin, who's probably playing at a $3m-$3,5m range. I can't see Marky getting $5,75m again, so maybe he drops to a more reasonable $4m. Plus, we still have to pay Subban.

That's a lot of money and years wrapped up in D. It's likely that the cap is going to go up by a lot for the 2014-2015 season, but the Habs have a lot of young depth coming up, so keeping a lot of D on expensive long term contracts (which UFAs usually get) isn't really ideal for us.

Hopefully, Beaulieu will be ready by the middle of next season. We also have Bennett coming up and Dietz, so we're not short of offensive talent from the blueline.

I wouldn't be against the Habs trading Markov or Diaz in the off-season (not now and not both obviously).

Pateryn looks like trade bait to me too. Showed enough that he looks like an NHLer, is a RH D, and has size. If we need to bundle, I can see him going.

Kaberle is an obvious buy-out situation.

MB definitely has some thinking to do here, but it's a nice problem to have.

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Old
03-17-2013, 11:40 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by imisssaku View Post
There's going to be a bit of a log jam in 2014 if we plan to keep both Diaz and Emelin, and I don't see why you wouldn't. Both are (or were) having pretty stellar sophomore years. Time will tell. Markov has obviously lost a step, but is still capable of playing top 4 minutes as of right now. Even if he does regress a little... there are suitable replacements. Plus having Markov on your 3rd pairing as a special teams guy would be pretty sick.
No Markov:

Habs 15th

With Markov:

Habs 1st

Suitable replacements??

The General's presence makes everyone play better...

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Old
03-17-2013, 11:42 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Born in 1909 View Post
No Markov:

Habs 15th

With Markov:

Habs 1st

Suitable replacements??

The General's presence makes everyone play better...
They keep showing the Habs record when Markov is in the line up. The reality is this team wins with Markov and can barely play .500 hockey without him. His intangibles are through the roof and Subban is great and will only get better but Markov is still the leader of the D corps.


Last edited by googlymoogly: 03-17-2013 at 11:56 AM.
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Old
03-17-2013, 11:45 AM
  #45
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Are we seriously discussing trading Markov? Did some of you miss the last season? Markov does so much for this team that even thinking about trading him is beyond any reason. He's a perfect mentor for our young defensemen and he's still a fantastic player in his own right.

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Old
03-17-2013, 12:15 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by MarkovsKnee View Post
Having to sign 3 Ds as UFAs in 2014 is going to be tough and expensive. I'm not sure what Emelin and Diaz will get in free agency, but consider this: Matt Carle got $5,5m as a UFA. If Diaz continues to progress like he has, at minimum we're looking at a $4m+ defenseman.

Then there's Emelin, who's probably playing at a $3m-$3,5m range. I can't see Marky getting $5,75m again, so maybe he drops to a more reasonable $4m. Plus, we still have to pay Subban.

That's a lot of money and years wrapped up in D. It's likely that the cap is going to go up by a lot for the 2014-2015 season, but the Habs have a lot of young depth coming up, so keeping a lot of D on expensive long term contracts (which UFAs usually get) isn't really ideal for us.
I suspect Diaz will be the odd man out simply because Markov and Subban bring everything Diaz brings and more.

If Subban is going to be at 7m, Markov at 5m, Gorges & Emelin at 4m each, then a couple of ELC players at 1m each. That's 6 D at 22M, which in reality is not really an overpayment for a good D core. Besides I'd rather overpay a little to get a top end D-core then skimp on the D to overpay on forwards.

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Old
03-17-2013, 12:17 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Sorinth View Post
I suspect Diaz will be the odd man out simply because Markov and Subban bring everything Diaz brings and more.

If Subban is going to be at 7m, Markov at 5m, Gorges & Emelin at 4m each, then a couple of ELC players at 1m each. That's 6 D at 22M, which in reality is not really an overpayment for a good D core. Besides I'd rather overpay a little to get a top end D-core then skimp on the D to overpay on forwards.
Emelin hasn't even scratched his offensive production yet. I have a feeling we will see a lot more what he can do in the future.

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Old
03-17-2013, 12:27 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by googlymoogly View Post
Emelin hasn't even scratched his offensive production yet. I have a feeling we will see a lot more what he can do in the future.
I agree but I'm not sure if he's really going to put up big numbers. I think it's more likely he becomes a very underrated offensive player. I see him topping out as a 30-35pt D-man.

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Old
03-17-2013, 12:29 PM
  #49
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Markov will probably get 3.5 -4 m $ in his next contract. That's 2 M $ paycut. He will be 35. We control his minutes to 18-20 and he should be very good for us.

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Old
03-17-2013, 12:34 PM
  #50
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in 2 years when Markov retires...We'll see a bigger group who can skate.

Tinordi (6'6" 230lbs) - Subban (6'0" 210lbs)
Beaulieu (6'3" 210lbs) - Gorges (6'1" 190lbs)
Emelin (6'2" 220lbs) - Diaz (5'9" 180lbs)
Ellis (6'2" 210lbs)

Powerplay:
Subban - Diaz
Beaulieu - Ellis/Gorges

Penalty kill:
Tinordi - Subban
Emelin - Gorges

---------------------------------------

On forward:
Bourque-Plekanec-Gionta
Pacioretty-Desharnais-Gallagher
Galchenyuk-Eller-Prust
Leblanc-Dumont-Moen/Kristo/Bournival

Price
Whoever

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