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Carey Price doesn't steal games

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Old
03-17-2013, 11:28 AM
  #201
CrAzYNiNe
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Glad the title is the way it is! I wanted to post something like that but had to run to go watch UFC. Price stole a game? Preposterous!

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03-17-2013, 11:28 AM
  #202
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Whitesnake, dude, I agree with you re: Price being unproven. Read my posts again.

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03-17-2013, 11:28 AM
  #203
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I'm spending a lot of time in Toronto these days and man, Leafs fans would give their left arm for Price, along with most of their team.

Truly top level starting goalies are the rarest thing in hockey. Price has shown enough to join a very small group, and his ceiling hasn't been reached. He's a franchise goalie who has shown great character and resiliency being in the spotlight from a very young age. We're lucky to have him. I think the vast majority of other team's fans would agree.

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Old
03-17-2013, 12:00 PM
  #204
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luongo, price, and ward will battle it out.

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Old
03-17-2013, 12:02 PM
  #205
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
He's our BEST player and to constantly doubt his quality is ridiculous. Thorton has a bad game here and there, a bad streak once in a while but no one doubts that he's god damned fantastic at his position, same should go for Price. He's our superstar and we should treat him as such.
When it comes to Price it's these type of statements that are discussion killers that bother me.

How is he our best player ? What's the reasoning behind this claim ? Best player based on his position as a goalie compared to other goalies ? You think there's more of a gap between Price and other #1 goalies than say Subban and other really good dman ? Or Plekanec and other really good 2 way #1 centers ? What does "He's our superstar" mean ? And we should him treat him as such ? What treatment is that ?

Best player over how long ? The past 3 years ? This season ?

I hardly think he's been good enough and consistent enough to be our unequivocally best player no matter the criteria.

So why even say something like that ?

This why I find any type of discussion about Price to be completely impossible because baseless claims like these are being made all the time. Price finished top 5 in vezina voting once 2-3 years ago, and now he's a top 3 goalie. A top 3 goalie based on past performances ? Well no because he was never nominated for the vezina. Based on this season ? Well no, because he's not even top 10 in GAA/save% on one of the best team in the league.. only stat he's top 3 in is wins but if you are honest you wouldn't say that's because Price has been one of the top 3 best goalie this season.

He's been reliable this season. I agree with the point that you can't expect a goalie to steal games all the time. But it's not true that Price has shown the same consistency to play at a high level over 60 games over multiple seasons than guys like Thomas, Rinne and Lundqvist have.

EDIT: On an unrelated note, I find it funny you brought up Thornton as an example. I've doubted him for years. The guy has zero heart. Got outplayed and outeverything by Koivu every playoffs. Bruins just gave him away and the sharks never won anything with him. He's a regular season superstar. I question a lot of things about him. All the talent in the world no question but very lacking in the will department.

Quote:
Price is one of the very few goalies who gives us 60ish games at a high level every season. He's one of a handful that can even shoulder that workload, win or lose. You see threads calling Smith, Lehtonen or Anderson or Bobrovsky "good" goalies but they aren't proven, reliable and consistent like Rinne, Thomas, Lundqvist, Luongo, Quick and Price.
Over the past 3 years :

Luongo
Quick
Lundqvist
Rinne
Thomas
Ward
Fleury
Niemi
Brodeur
Miller

That's 10 goalies. And some more could arguably be added. These guys can/could play 60 games at a "high level".

If you want to remove Brodeur and Thomas, fine, but then I think we'll have to add some other names soon from the young and up coming goalies list.

All in all, it just feels like you say : He's OUR goalie, so let's get behind him and never question him.

That's a legit response from a fan. But I could say the same about Gionta whom you don't like, and whichever other player you have disliked with the years. They're all OUR players but none of them are immune to questions and criticism. And this doesn't mean I don't have faith in Price and want to see him gone. I think he has a lot of potential but I'm not ready to say he's our best player without question. I just don't think that's true at all. He's however paid like our best player so he should definitely be our best player. Last year I didn't find Price to be very good. He was average. But then again the whole team sucked so you didn't hear much from me. He had also bought a lot of good will from his near vezina like previous season. But now that he has signed this contract, I want to see more from him. More than what he showed last year. I would like a repeat of the 2010-11 season, or closer to it than he has played this season. For 6.5M cap hit over a long period of time I believe those are fair expectations.

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03-17-2013, 12:08 PM
  #206
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Originally Posted by Bullsmith View Post
I'm spending a lot of time in Toronto these days and man, Leafs fans would give their left arm for Price, along with most of their team.

Truly top level starting goalies are the rarest thing in hockey. Price has shown enough to join a very small group, and his ceiling hasn't been reached. He's a franchise goalie who has shown great character and resiliency being in the spotlight from a very young age. We're lucky to have him. I think the vast majority of other team's fans would agree.
There's a few problems that I have with Price and no that doesn't make me a hater. I want the Habs to win regardless of who's in nets:

1- Price hasn't stepped up in the playoffs
2- It's 2013, it's 8 years since we drafted him.. enough of "he's young"
3- He's getting paid 6.5 M $ per year. We should expect consistency and domination.
4- He lets in a bad goal every week or it seems so.

Is he good? Yes definitely!
Is he a top 5 goalie in the league? No, I don't know why people keep saying that.

Would the leafs want him? Yes definitely but what's your point?

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Old
03-17-2013, 12:14 PM
  #207
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Traitor8 View Post
There's a few problems that I have with Price and no that doesn't make me a hater. I want the Habs to win regardless of who's in nets:

1- Price hasn't stepped up in the playoffs
2- It's 2013, it's 8 years since we drafted him.. enough of "he's young"
3- He's getting paid 6.5 M $ per year. We should expect consistency and domination.
4- He lets in a bad goal every week or it seems so.

Is he good? Yes definitely!
Is he a top 5 goalie in the league? No, I don't know why people keep saying that.

Would the leafs want him? Yes definitely but what's your point?
Dude, that's only happening since this year.

How about being a bit of intellectual honesty?

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Old
03-17-2013, 12:15 PM
  #208
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whether Price is "elite" or not, there is no excuse for Montreal abandoning the drafting of goaltenders. Maybe they believe in Price more than they should but getting him competition in goal doesnt hurt.

Having a guy like Budaj and a bare cupboard in the minors to me is crazy. If Price fails the team is screwed.

I liked it a lot more when there was always a controversy in net in Montreal. Then at least you knew that you would get the 'A' game out of the goalies every night and bad goals that Price seems to let in were a lot less frequent.

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Old
03-17-2013, 12:17 PM
  #209
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Originally Posted by PricePkPatch View Post
Dude, that's only happening since this year.

How about being a bit of intellectual honesty?
Yes it's happening this year ...so why should I not expect him to be dominant and consistent this year?

Has he been? No he hasn't!

But we read consistently on these boards that he's a top 5 goalie in the league which is just not true ..it's insulting to read such dishonest statements! Then I read that he is by far our best player this year? What? What about Subban? Pacioretty? Plekanec?

Again i'm not a hater .I want the habs to win but I call it like it is. Price has NOT proven that he is a top 5 goalie in the league. Price is closer to a 4.5 M $ goalie than a 6.5 M $ goalie. Price is unproven in the playoffs and I expect to see domination very very soon ..it's 8 years since we drafted him..let's DO THIS!

Do you think people will wait until 2020-2021 to see Galchenyuk be consistent?

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03-17-2013, 12:18 PM
  #210
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Originally Posted by Traitor8 View Post
Wayyyy too early to tell...

your telling me if Brodeur has lights out 2013 winter, they wouldn't take him and consider him #1?

It's a 2 week tournament.
And? Fleury was arguably the best Canadian goalie in the NHL when Vancouver rolled around, and that didn't stop him from being 3rd on the depth chart did it?

Not a chance in hell anyone other than Price or Luongo is the start in Sochi.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
And then I wrote...."If he is...it's because we've pretty thin at goalie position". Which we are indeed. Price being top 3 is a mix between performances AND how thin we are.
I disagree 100%, because you stated that you don't think Price is a lock to be going to Sochi. Which is totally ridiculous, and it has nothing to do with our depth. Price would be a top 3 goaltender for any country in the world right now.

You could make a case for USA (Quick, Miller, Anderson/Schneider) or Finland (Rinne, Lehtonen, Kipper) but even then I think it is pretty clear Price is a top 3 goalie on either of those teams. The knocks you could use against Price go just as much for Lehtonen, Rinne and Anderson/Schneider as well.

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03-17-2013, 12:20 PM
  #211
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Originally Posted by ryanwb View Post
And? Fleury was arguably the best Canadian goalie in the NHL when Vancouver rolled around, and that didn't stop him from being 3rd on the depth chart did it?

Not a chance in hell anyone other than Price or Luongo is the start in Sochi.



I disagree 100%, because you stated that you don't think Price is a lock to be going to Sochi. Which is totally ridiculous, and it has nothing to do with our depth. Price would be a top 3 goaltender for any country in the world right now.

You could make a case for USA (Quick, Miller, Anderson/Schneider) or Finland (Rinne, Lehtonen, Kipper) but even then I think it is pretty clear Price is a top 3 goalie on either of those teams. The knocks you could use against Price go just as much for Lehtonen, Rinne and Anderson/Schneider as well.
Are you really comparing Fleury and Brodeur? Brodeur has the best pedigree to lead. He's a natural leader and big game player.

Even if Price were to start, the leach (sp?) would be very short.

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03-17-2013, 12:26 PM
  #212
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Are you really comparing Fleury and Brodeur? Brodeur has the best pedigree to lead. He's a natural leader and big game player.

Even if Price were to start, the leach (sp?) would be very short.
Big game player? Where was Brodeur when the Kings put up a 6 spot in the deciding game of the Cup Finals last year? I agree Marty has done a lot to be given the benefit of the doubt, but he is NOT on the level of Luongo or Price anymore. To start him based on pedigree is ridiculous to me.

I understand your point about Fleury vs. Brodeur, but Fleury had just come off a Stanley Cup (1 year after losing in the Cup Final) so it's not as if he had never accomplished anything.

You say that Brodeur could win the job based on merit (ie he has a good winter 2013), then shoot down what Fleury was doing pre 2010 because he doesn't have the pedigree. It make's no sense.

To me, its a no-brainer who our 2 goaltenders are going to be come 2014. I would be flat out shocked if anyone supplants either of them.

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03-17-2013, 12:28 PM
  #213
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Traitor8 View Post
Yes it's happening this year ...so why should I not expect him to be dominant and consistent this year?

Has he been? No he hasn't!

But we read consistently on these boards that he's a top 5 goalie in the league which is just not true ..it's insulting to read such dishonest statements! Then I read that he is by far our best player this year? What? What about Subban? Pacioretty? Plekanec?

Again i'm not a hater .I want the habs to win but I call it like it is. Price has NOT proven that he is a top 5 goalie in the league. Price is closer to a 4.5 M $ goalie than a 6.5 M $ goalie. Price is unproven in the playoffs and I expect to see domination very very soon ..it's 8 years since we drafted him..let's DO THIS!

Do you think people will wait until 2020-2021 to see Galchenyuk be consistent?
These three players all have had bad to horrible games this year. It's just easier to win despite these players having a bad night because we got depth both on the Offense and on the Defense.

There's just 1 goalie; when he has a bad game, it shows. The only moment you can truly see a goalie shine is if his team is being outplayed badly and he single-handlely wins the game.

The problem being; we have dominated the majority of our games this year. Price hasn't needed to step up, except recently with the accruing injuries. He has been solid so far, and he proven he can handle the Montreal Pressure. I wouldn't trade him for any other goalie; maybe he's not the top 5 in skill, but he's a great fit for our city and has the battlescars to show.

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03-17-2013, 12:28 PM
  #214
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Traitor8 View Post
Are you really comparing Fleury and Brodeur? Brodeur has the best pedigree to lead. He's a natural leader and big game player.

Even if Price were to start, the leach (sp?) would be very short.
Every goalie has a short leach in the playoffs, even Brodeur got pulled after 1 bad game

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Old
03-17-2013, 12:29 PM
  #215
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Traitor8 View Post
There's a few problems that I have with Price and no that doesn't make me a hater. I want the Habs to win regardless of who's in nets:

1- Price hasn't stepped up in the playoffs
2- It's 2013, it's 8 years since we drafted him.. enough of "he's young"
3- He's getting paid 6.5 M $ per year. We should expect consistency and domination.
4- He lets in a bad goal every week or it seems so.

Is he good? Yes definitely!
Is he a top 5 goalie in the league? No, I don't know why people keep saying that.

Would the leafs want him? Yes definitely but what's your point?

This is another commonly used trope that lacks, again, true perspective.
Let's say 3 playoff series as starter. Won against Bruins (shutting the door in game 7). Left hanging in that awful series where everyone sucked and led to dismantling. Took us to game 7 OT against eventual champs and league favoured neanderthals, missing our best scorer.

I hardly think that is not stepping up. As many have said, if you put a strong team in front of him, he will be put in the position to be able to take us to the next level. I agree that Halak was magical, but there have been countless nobody goalies before and after who have just gotten hot and against other HOF goalies.

Every week is reaching and what constitutes a bad goal seems to be up for debate as well. There have been some stoppable ones, but watch any NHL game and you will see goals that go in and nobody thinks of the goalie, rather the shooter, but were it Price, it would be a bad goal. Going top shelf after receiving a cross crease pass is a great way to give the goalie little to no chance, as an example.

He is consistent and quite frankly, dominant. The fact that in MTL (and I suppose it's just our culture with goalies), you must be infallible makes any goal let in seem like a huge disappointment. I don't like getting scored on either and I certainly realize when Price should have stopped it, but it pales in comparison to the extremely high level of goaltending he provides at a well-deserved...price.

Anyone a little worried about our long long long time future in net? Imagine if we hadn't drafted him, even though we were all (mostly) scratching our heads at the time. Thank you Timmins!!!


Just wanna add that his best is yet to come and I'd rather he hit it when we have a cup contending team. Not far off.

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03-17-2013, 12:32 PM
  #216
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Originally Posted by habtastic View Post
This is another commonly used trope that lacks, again, true perspective.
Let's say 3 playoff series as starter. Won against Bruins (shutting the door in game 7). Left hanging in that awful series where everyone sucked and led to dismantling. Took us to game 7 OT against eventual champs and league favoured neanderthals, missing our best scorer.

I hardly think that is not stepping up. As many have said, if you put a strong team in front of him, he will be put in the position to be able to take us to the next level. I agree that Halak was magical, but there have been countless nobody goalies before and after who have just gotten hot and against other HOF goalies.

Every week is reaching and what constitutes a bad goal seems to be up for debate as well. There have been some stoppable ones, but watch any NHL game and you will see goals that go in and nobody thinks of the goalie, rather the shooter, but were it Price, it would be a bad goal. Going top shelf after receiving a cross crease pass is a great way to give the goalie little to no chance, as an example.

He is consistent and quite frankly, dominant. The fact that in MTL (and I suppose it's just our culture with goalies), you must be infallible makes any goal let in seem like a huge disappointment. I don't like getting scored on either and I certainly realize when Price should have stopped it, but it pales in comparison to the extremely high level of goaltending he provides at a well-deserved...price.

Anyone a little worried about our long long long time future in net? Imagine if we hadn't drafted him, even though we were all (mostly) scratching our heads at the time. Thank you Timmins!!!
I agree that Price shut the door against Bruins in Game 7 ..but let's be realistic here.. look at Games 4,5,6 ... Price let the Bruins back in that series...If we had decent goaltending in this series, it would of never went to 7.

Yes Philadelphia was better than Montreal but Price didn't play well at all that series. Hamburger destroyed him.

Common man .. Price is NOWHERE near Dominant ..he has a .910 save % before yesterday ..are you really telling me Price is dominant? LOL ..he's not atop 5 goalie this year ..yet again!

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03-17-2013, 12:38 PM
  #217
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I agree that Price shut the door against Bruins in Game 7 ..but let's be realistic here.. look at Games 4,5,6 ... Price let the Bruins back in that series...If we had decent goaltending in this series, it would of never went to 7.
http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/nhl/recap?gid=2008041501

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03-17-2013, 12:39 PM
  #218
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I agree that Price will never "steal" games... He's not a reflex goalie. He's a positional goalie that relies on percentages to make saves... He'll never look as good as Theodore does in his best games, but he'll always be, on average, a notch better.

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03-17-2013, 12:41 PM
  #219
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Price is ridiculously overrated on these boards - I wish other plays got the same level of support. However, Price is an incredible goalie and we're lucky to have him. Is he overpaid? Not really - goalie salary is pretty standard around the league. They are going to take up 10%-15% of your cap, unless you have a rookie breaking in, or a reclamation project (Emery, etc).

Price isn't a Top-5 goalie, but he's definitely in the upper half of the league, despite his bad start. He's easily a Top-15 goalie in the league, and quite possibly a Top-10 goalie. When he's at his best, he's probably a Top-3 goalie in the league, but his focus is very suspect, especially this year because he faces so few shots most games.

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03-17-2013, 12:43 PM
  #220
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Look at game the 3:15 mark ...wth was that ..1-1 tie in the 3rd ..backbreaker. Then look at the 4:00 min mark and then look again at the 4:26 mark:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZHcSRe6yNM

Game 6. 4th and 5th boston bruins goal:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dI4wnVXAPE

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03-17-2013, 12:47 PM
  #221
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I agree that Price shut the door against Bruins in Game 7 ..but let's be realistic here.. look at Games 4,5,6 ... Price let the Bruins back in that series...If we had decent goaltending in this series, it would of never went to 7.

Yes Philadelphia was better than Montreal but Price didn't play well at all that series. Hamburger destroyed him.

Common man .. Price is NOWHERE near Dominant ..he has a .910 save % before yesterday ..are you really telling me Price is dominant? LOL ..he's not atop 5 goalie this year ..yet again!
He wasn't a sieve or something in 4,5,6. The turning point was Ryder's frigging save on Pleks! The series was going both ways and what do you say of the eventual Conn Smythe winner who only let in one less goal in game 7 (thus having lead his team to have to be in that situation). As I said, he hasn't gone all Halak (although there is some validity to the fact that there was a lot of luck and shot blocking to help Jaro, but that is part of the game so full marks to Halak), but he is not a choker or something.

Again, dominant now becomes subjective. For me, he's helped us win the games we won. If he flopped around more, maybe people would think he was making highlight reel saves. He is solid and as everrrry commentator* describes him as doing - makes it look easy. Doesn't get perturbed by a bad goal when he does let one in and that leads to making many more very important saves.

When the dust falls and if we are one of the great surprises of the year, you will find it very hard to convince people that it wasn't thanks to the dominant play of Carey Price (as well as the explosion of the youth and the great leadership of our vets). Still, Carey Price will be (I hope, don't wanna jinx) a huge reason why we will have done so well. I don't really need for him to have the best stats. I just need him to give us a chance to win every night and yeah a couple of wicked robberies every game, which does happen.

I guess when I reflect on this subject and the discussion, feels kind good to be nitpicking about our very awesome team (missing some key players too!)


*other than Jack Edwards

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03-17-2013, 12:50 PM
  #222
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I think it was referring to 2011, but yeah, further forgotten facts in the archive about when Price was a boss in the playoffs.

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03-17-2013, 12:55 PM
  #223
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Philadelphia Game 1. Habs down 2-0 and come back to tie it 2-2...then this happens (3:40 mark):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMpgTX46Un0

We tie it and win it though!


Ok let's go game 2:

40 seconds mark....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jio_-Vw3Yo

50 seconds mark...:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jio_-Vw3Yo

We make it a 1 goal game ..late in the third and then this happens (4:05 mark)


Them Game 3 (look at 2:38 mark ... 3rd straight time we go down 2-0):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6fBlnWuDgk

Them Game 4 (2:22):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l10dvuC3gW0

Game 5 (3:06 and 3:22 and 3:45 and 3:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Q-fvbYnKfc

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03-17-2013, 12:56 PM
  #224
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Originally Posted by Raider917 View Post
whether Price is "elite" or not, there is no excuse for Montreal abandoning the drafting of goaltenders. Maybe they believe in Price more than they should but getting him competition in goal doesnt hurt.

Having a guy like Budaj and a bare cupboard in the minors to me is crazy. If Price fails the team is screwed.

I liked it a lot more when there was always a controversy in net in Montreal. Then at least you knew that you would get the 'A' game out of the goalies every night and bad goals that Price seems to let in were a lot less frequent.
That's why MB traded Desjardin for Tokarski, what a steal!

Memorial cup winner, WJC gold medalist and AHL champion.....he won everywhere.

So far with the dogs in 9 games he is .944 and GAA of 1.71 !

Born in 89 so he's still young.

Anyway back on topic, im glad Price had a good game, we need him stealing games if we want a deep playoffs run!

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03-17-2013, 12:56 PM
  #225
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Traitor8 View Post
There's a few problems that I have with Price and no that doesn't make me a hater. I want the Habs to win regardless of who's in nets:

1- Price hasn't stepped up in the playoffs
2- It's 2013, it's 8 years since we drafted him.. enough of "he's young"
3- He's getting paid 6.5 M $ per year. We should expect consistency and domination..
4- He lets in a bad goal every week or it seems so

Is he good? Yes definitely!
Is he a top 5 goalie in the league? No, I don't know why people keep saying that.

Would the leafs want him? Yes definitely but what's your point?
Yeah um.. about that, maybe you should take a look at goalies around the league this season, your theory of 5-6M$ goalie should always be consistent and dominating doesnt really work. Rinne just got pulled back to back games. Luongo, Lundqvist, Miller, Fleury, Bryzgalov are from being consistent.

I agree that Price is NOT a top 5 goalie right now but that changes quite fast, can we really say that Rinne, Miller, Luongo, Lundqvist are top 5 goalie because most of them were last year or the year before. Can we say Anderson and Crawford are legitimate top 5 goalie in the upcoming years?

This just proves that goalie, even the BEST ones, can also be inconsistent and have bad streak. Just watch Rinne, 2 shutouts in 3 games, only one goal against in those 3 games... and then next game, lets in 4 goals on 12 shots, got pulled. Next game, first 2 shots, 2 goals, got pulled again. In Rinne last 10 starts, he was pulled 4 times and have 6 games that he has a SV% under .852. Not something you should expect from a 7 000 000$ goalie.

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