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Old
08-01-2006, 11:52 AM
  #51
Nich
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no.

once again, no trades for the sake of trading....which is what i think most people who post these trades like doing...just because it gives them something to talk about...

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08-01-2006, 11:52 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by funky View Post
Okay, I am sick of homer fans. #1 I am a Gretzky fan from way back and I jumped bandwagons as he got traded, well other then the Blues. I am now cheering for both the Rangers and the Kings and would love them to meet in the finals.

I am embarrassed lately about the homerism (if that is a word) of a lot of Ranger fans. Some King fans to some extent seems to be a little out there but when I see arguements about Brown probably not havin the potential of a Montoya it bugs me.

Remember I am a fan of each team but I know Montoya has never played one game in the big leagues so far and has also had up and down seasons. Brown may if lucky pan out to be close to a Deader type but for now Brown has the edge as he can play in the league and Montoya could be the next Richter but he could also be a Storr. Point being just because a player wears your teams sweater doesn't automatically mean he will be the next great superstar.

What garbage. The Rangers have had enough of dispassionate, lazy Russians (Kovalev) in the past. They don't need Frolov now. The Kings fans hope they can dump off this waste of potential for the Rangers best prospect? If the Kings truly wanted Staal, they would have to do better than Frolov. It is clear that other NHL clubs are not banging Lombardi's door down to get him. Ranger fans at least have some knowledge.....go to Kings games and no one sitting in the lower or club levels knows what icing is. The only true fans there are in the cheap seats.
As for the Staal Frolov comparison, whoever writes of this trade in a matter of seconds better do some research. L.A's whole team sucked the last half due to injuries and teamwork. Staal looks great so far but thats in the OHL not the NHL.

Point being Frolov is a proven 2nd liner with a good contract and a good upside who has already proven himself. Staal has great potential but there is also a chance is a Dale Puriton, doubtful but still unproven.

Just my 2 cents but some days I swear that Rangers fans would take Montoya over Ovechkin and L.A fans would value Frolov over Crosby. Hammer away but at least put some sensible logic behind statements.

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08-01-2006, 12:00 PM
  #53
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Whether or not we are overrating prospects, the Rangers don't make this trade for the simple fact that they really don't have a place for Frolov right now. Between Straka, Shanny and Prucha, the left side on the top two lines is already full. And the Rangers don't need to trade Staal.

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08-01-2006, 12:51 PM
  #54
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i wouldn't do it but i don't think this proposal was terrible.. frolov is NICE

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08-01-2006, 01:54 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by FLYLine88 View Post
And your calling us the homers? Do some research.

How about O'Sullivan for Straka? That seems fair in your eyes, O'sullivan never has played an NHL game and straka is a proven NHL player who scored 75 points last year, this should be a huge steal for you, or maybe you could get a 2nd round pick for him
I guess you dont do the research, I am a fan of both teams so quite refering to it being a huge steal for me. I know both Dawes and Straka very well, I was very happy when L.A got him. I also knew he had two injuries and that his stint with L.A was hindered by it. I also know that L.A may finish in the 24th to 28th range overall looking at there line up and that Straka is no superstar that will alone bring their pathetic line up into the playoffs so why would they trade their top prospect for a guy that will be around for a year and not get them the cup. I do like Dawes, I have foolowed him a lot and yes he has scored at every level. L.A has numerous prospects like that including Parse, Pushkerov, or better yet Kanko who lit up the O.H.L and pushed hard in their playoffs. Kanko had the same future reports as Dawes and now L.A is hoping he will make the team and maybe one day be a 3rd liner as a more mature Avery type player.

I never said Dawes sucked so don't make it personal. He is a great prospect but he has a very long ways to go to make the NHL unlike a prospect such as Montoya, Staal, and O'Sullivan. Even as L.A's best prospect O'Sullivan is not expected to make the team till next year.

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08-01-2006, 02:10 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by funky View Post
I guess you dont do the research, I am a fan of both teams so quite refering to it being a huge steal for me. I know both Dawes and Straka very well, I was very happy when L.A got him. I also knew he had two injuries and that his stint with L.A was hindered by it. I also know that L.A may finish in the 24th to 28th range overall looking at there line up and that Straka is no superstar that will alone bring their pathetic line up into the playoffs so why would they trade their top prospect for a guy that will be around for a year and not get them the cup. I do like Dawes, I have foolowed him a lot and yes he has scored at every level. L.A has numerous prospects like that including Parse, Pushkerov, or better yet Kanko who lit up the O.H.L and pushed hard in their playoffs. Kanko had the same future reports as Dawes and now L.A is hoping he will make the team and maybe one day be a 3rd liner as a more mature Avery type player.

I never said Dawes sucked so don't make it personal. He is a great prospect but he has a very long ways to go to make the NHL unlike a prospect such as Montoya, Staal, and O'Sullivan. Even as L.A's best prospect O'Sullivan is not expected to make the team till next year.
Wow, that would almost be like Ranger fans disapproving a Frolov for Staal trade.... Thank you for proving our point.

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08-01-2006, 02:45 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by funky View Post
I guess you dont do the research, I am a fan of both teams so quite refering to it being a huge steal for me. I know both Dawes and Straka very well, I was very happy when L.A got him. I also knew he had two injuries and that his stint with L.A was hindered by it. I also know that L.A may finish in the 24th to 28th range overall looking at there line up and that Straka is no superstar that will alone bring their pathetic line up into the playoffs so why would they trade their top prospect for a guy that will be around for a year and not get them the cup. I do like Dawes, I have foolowed him a lot and yes he has scored at every level. L.A has numerous prospects like that including Parse, Pushkerov, or better yet Kanko who lit up the O.H.L and pushed hard in their playoffs. Kanko had the same future reports as Dawes and now L.A is hoping he will make the team and maybe one day be a 3rd liner as a more mature Avery type player.

I never said Dawes sucked so don't make it personal. He is a great prospect but he has a very long ways to go to make the NHL unlike a prospect such as Montoya, Staal, and O'Sullivan. Even as L.A's best prospect O'Sullivan is not expected to make the team till next year.
Nigel Dawes has a chance of making this team, THIS SEASON.

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08-01-2006, 02:51 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by BigCanada77 View Post
Wow, that would almost be like Ranger fans disapproving a Frolov for Staal trade.... Thank you for proving our point.
Dude, how old do you think Frolov is. He is signed for 4 more years, isn't even 25 and has increased his scoring total every year in the league to the point where a 60 point season will be disappointing. He adds a defensive element to every line and has a very freindly contract. In my eyes the Rangers are not that far away from the cup. They got to the playoffs last year and if it was not for the stupid Olympics and King Henry's injury they would have made a lot more noise. They have upgraded by getting Shanny, Ward, Cullen who all add the grit they missed and they ridded themselves of Poti and Rucchin. Pucha and Tyutin gain playoff eperience and Jagr still looks hungry. I say its time to go for the cup. The Rangers have a great prospect base, thank you 2005 draft, which they can now move the odd piece. The Rangers look very good and lets hope they can start to dominate.

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08-01-2006, 03:04 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by funky View Post
Dude, how old do you think Frolov is. He is signed for 4 more years, isn't even 25 and has increased his scoring total every year in the league to the point where a 60 point season will be disappointing. He adds a defensive element to every line and has a very freindly contract. In my eyes the Rangers are not that far away from the cup. They got to the playoffs last year and if it was not for the stupid Olympics and King Henry's injury they would have made a lot more noise. They have upgraded by getting Shanny, Ward, Cullen who all add the grit they missed and they ridded themselves of Poti and Rucchin. Pucha and Tyutin gain playoff eperience and Jagr still looks hungry. I say its time to go for the cup. The Rangers have a great prospect base, thank you 2005 draft, which they can now move the odd piece. The Rangers look very good and lets hope they can start to dominate.
I agree with most that you say here, and I realize he's young and can stick around awhile, but the same principle can be applied. The bottom line is, we dont have room for a Frolov right now, but we will have room for Staal in the future. Also, say we make the deal and we dont win a cup while he's here, and Staal becomes one of the top NHL Dman we all think he can be over in LA or somewhere else......then we're the ones with egg on our face.

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08-01-2006, 03:19 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by funky View Post
Dude, how old do you think Frolov is. He is signed for 4 more years, isn't even 25 and has increased his scoring total every year in the league to the point where a 60 point season will be disappointing.
Ask yourself this, would the Pens deal Malkin for Frolov?

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08-01-2006, 03:47 PM
  #61
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Malkin for Frolov is interesting. Malkin like Ovechkin is a rare case and I would say Pittsburg says no L.A says ya. Only thing we are discountin here is that Frolov may be that point of game player. Look at what he did during the lock out as well as the first half of the season. Frolov is young and still has potential to grow.

As for the Staal for Frolov trade I dont think the Rangers and Kings are good trade partners. What I do think though is if we combine the two teams prospects it would be a damn scary rookie squad. Better yet include anyone 24 and under. This other debate is getting silly. All I am saying is a lot of people are banking on prospects a little to much and in doing so overating them.

My top prospects for each team would be

1. Montoya - yes unbelievable talebt in a hard position to find
2. Staal - O'Sullivan - both tops in their positions, both should live up to billing
3. Kopitar - blacksheep - could be the best or worst of any

then a big drop to what I call B level prospects, yes they are still awesome but not the projected upside, not as great of a chance to live up to it

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08-01-2006, 04:45 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by funky View Post
Malkin for Frolov is interesting. Malkin like Ovechkin is a rare case and I would say Pittsburg says no L.A says ya.
Off course the Pens say no and LA says yes. But if we use your theory that Malkin has yet to play an NHL game, and as such, Frolov is worth more, then how could the Pens say no? Now apply that logic to Staal.
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Only thing we are discountin here is that Frolov may be that point of game player.
Point per game player or not, he is not netting you Malkin.

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08-01-2006, 05:51 PM
  #63
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wow what planet are you on...

Malkin should not be used in the same sentence as frolov and vice versa...If your remotely even think that frolov and malkin in a tarde for together is possible then you need some help. Malkin is possibly the biggest if not will be the biggest/best player that has come out of Russia.

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08-01-2006, 06:44 PM
  #64
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I don't really see the point of arguing. Brown is a foward and Montoya is a goalie, it's an extreemly hard comparison to make.

right now I wouldn't trade montoya, unless I was bowled over, because I don't yet know what I have in him and because I think his value will climb after he see's a year of NHL time. If you trade him now your probably not going to get fair value and you might trade the wrong goalie.

And who knows, maybe 2 1/2 years from now we're talking about dealing Lundqvist because Montoya has supplanted him. He does have that kind of ability, though i would never project that.

Staal for Kopitar might be interesting ....

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08-01-2006, 06:48 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by True Blue View Post
Off course the Pens say no and LA says yes. But if we use your theory that Malkin has yet to play an NHL game, and as such, Frolov is worth more, then how could the Pens say no? Now apply that logic to Staal.

Point per game player or not, he is not netting you Malkin.
Dude please double check what you read, thats what I said. I also said that Malkin like Ovechkin are rare case. Staal is not in the same league as Malkin or Ovechkin. Staal should be a stud but these two have been superstuds since they were scouted at an early age.

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08-01-2006, 11:35 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Nich View Post
no.

once again, no trades for the sake of trading....which is what i think most people who post these trades like doing...just because it gives them something to talk about...
Good take.

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08-01-2006, 11:38 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by funky View Post
Staal is not in the same league as Malkin or Ovechkin. Staal should be a stud but these two have been superstuds since they were scouted at an early age.
Staal is not a future top-line player, but he IS a future top-pairing defenseman. And those are always hard to come by. By no means am I comparing the talent level of Malkin to that of Staal, however it should be noted that Malkin (along with virtually every other top prospect) were awfull quiet whenever Stall was on the ice during the WJC. Must be something to him.

No doubt that Crosby is Crosby, Ovechkin is Ovechnkin & Phaneuf is Phaneuf. However, Staal is currently looking mighty fine, whatever his top-end talent might be.

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08-02-2006, 12:25 AM
  #68
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I believe that Staal will end up being equal to Dion. Maybe not as offensive but just as good defensive if not better

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08-02-2006, 12:29 AM
  #69
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I believe that Staal will end up being equal to Dion. Maybe not as offensive but just as good defensive if not better
If he ends up somewhere like Dion I will jump for joy. Dion will be a top 3 defenseman in the NHL someday IMO.

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08-02-2006, 12:35 AM
  #70
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If he ends up somewhere like Dion I will jump for joy. Dion will be a top 3 defenseman in the NHL someday IMO.
If it's not for Niedermayer, I say Dion just might be the best offensive defenseman in the NHL. Who else can lead a handle and shoot a puck, and lead a rush like Dion, aside from Niedermayer? The list would have to be very small, if there is one at all.

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08-02-2006, 12:40 AM
  #71
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If he ends up somewhere like Dion I will jump for joy. Dion will be a top 3 defenseman in the NHL someday IMO.
20 goals as a rookie while being a defensive "monster" is really friggin impressive. I have to say, I don't think it is too far off base to argue that Phaneuf is a top 3 defenseman already. How many points do you think he could have gotten is he was playing anywhere other than offensively inept Calgary?

Lidstrom
Niedermayer
Pronger
Chara

After those guys I think he is right there.

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08-02-2006, 12:40 AM
  #72
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If it's not for Niedermayer, I say Dion just might be the best offensive defenseman in the NHL. Who else can lead a handle and shoot a puck, and lead a rush like Dion, aside from Niedermayer? The list would have to be very small, if there is one at all.
I would put him in the top 5 last season, playing on a defensive team those #s were very impressive. And he was just as impressive when i watched him (about 10-12 games). His looked more like a rookie with his defensive play but that will no doubt improve over the next 1-2 years. Flames are very lucky to have this guy.


I really think the kid can hit 70-75 points when he is in his prime, and also play a very very good defense game with it. Ive been a huge fan of him since his junior days.

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08-02-2006, 01:08 AM
  #73
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I would put him in the top 5 last season, playing on a defensive team those #s were very impressive. And he was just as impressive when i watched him (about 10-12 games). His looked more like a rookie with his defensive play but that will no doubt improve over the next 1-2 years. Flames are very lucky to have this guy.


I really think the kid can hit 70-75 points when he is in his prime, and also play a very very good defense game with it. Ive been a huge fan of him since his junior days.
I completely agree, and I am a huge fan of Dion myself. I was kind of pissed off when the Rangers couldn't trade up to get him. After seeing him knock Olesz's lights out at the world juniors, and the way he played on both sides of the puck, I knew he was going to be a ROCK one day.

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08-02-2006, 01:12 AM
  #74
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I completely agree, and I am a huge fan of Dion myself. I was kind of pissed off when the Rangers couldn't trade up to get him. After seeing him knock Olesz's lights out at the world juniors, and the way he played on both sides of the puck, I knew he was going to be a ROCK one day.
He was definitely my target on that draft day as well, especially because alot of the pre-draft rankings had him going right around #12. I was sold after reading that he idolized Scott Stevens and then seeing him go out and play that way.

On a side note, Lidstrom scored 80 points last year. It's amazing what that guy does year in and year out relatively quietly.

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08-02-2006, 10:04 AM
  #75
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Originally Posted by funky View Post
I believe that Staal will end up being equal to Dion. Maybe not as offensive but just as good defensive if not better
If you believe that, then why on Earth would the Rangers trade him for a 2nd line forward?

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