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Rangers @ Penguins 3/16/13 - Manbearpig Strikes Again

View Poll Results: Player of the Game?
Henrik Lundqvist? lol jk 19 20.21%
Everyone else? lol jk 5 5.32%
Manbearpig 70 74.47%
Voters: 94. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
03-17-2013, 10:43 AM
  #351
pld459666
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Bottom 6 is not where you look for goals. The supposed point-getters aren't getting points.
bullcrap.

you want at least 30 goals from your 3rd line. 10 goals a guy on average is NOT alot to ask for.

If you get nothing from the 4th line that is acceptable playing 5-7 minutes a game.

but the third line should give you SOME offense.

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03-17-2013, 10:51 AM
  #352
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bullcrap.

you want at least 30 goals from your 3rd line. 10 goals a guy on average is NOT alot to ask for.

If you get nothing from the 4th line that is acceptable playing 5-7 minutes a game.

but the third line should give you SOME offense.
Absolutely. Look at the game we played yesterday. Girardi and McD shut down Crosby and Neal. Excellent.

Everyone else picked up the slacked and they netted 3 on us. Depth is key.

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03-17-2013, 10:52 AM
  #353
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Ya, who cares about offense from our bottom 6!?

More grinders! More jam! And lets throw in some useless goons out there to. We can fight our way to the cup.

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03-17-2013, 10:54 AM
  #354
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Ya, who cares about offense from our bottom 6!?

More grinders! More jam! And lets throw in some useless goons out there to. We can fight our way to the cup.
I recall Pierre McGuire making this joke after we acquired John Scott at the deadline last season. Both of you are correct. Ridiculous.

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03-17-2013, 10:58 AM
  #355
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This will be the second season I say this " three goals against should not be a death sentence " and last year we came in first *( limited Crosby *). Need to score three most games . We don't even pick up loser points and this year they mean even more

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03-17-2013, 11:00 AM
  #356
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That's what is such a killer about both this years and last years teams. When our opponents score its not, "Oh ****, we are down one". It's, "Oh ****, we have to score two".

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03-17-2013, 11:09 AM
  #357
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You make some excellent points here. I wonder how many folks here regret the Nash trade. I am 50/50 on this.
I don't regret the Nash trade at all. Nash is leading the team in everything and is often the only player who looks like he's making offense. Like I said earlier in the thread though, if Sather was willing to bite the bullet and trade 2 big parts of the bottom 3 lines, he never should have let Prust, Fedotenko and Mitchell walk too. A small turnover that needed to happen was supplemented by an even larger and more or less unnecessary turnover of FA guys. Yeah, the cap would have been tight, but not impossible if you take all the guys he got to half-heartedly replace those players.

Last year's team won a lot because the entire lineup understood the system and they were the perfect guys to play in it. Gaborik and Richards were the odd men out but it was fine because they played like stars in the NHL. This year, so much of the lineup was gutted that the team no longer has the right guys to play the system. Gaborik and Richards are still the odd men out, along with Nash, (in terms of not being suited for the system) and Nash is the only one playing well enough to justify his icetime considering that.

Never should have let Prust, Fedotenko and Mitchell walk. Gaborik at least looks like he's in shape and he's fighting it. Richards looks out of shape. It's obvious. Seeing him skate around with the A on is painful. He should be reprimanded in some way.

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03-17-2013, 11:29 AM
  #358
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Gotta love how PenRefs fans always say how horrible ManBearPig is on the main boards, and how all he can do is chest snipe. But as soon as ManBearPig plays us, he always unleashes rockets into the net.

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03-17-2013, 11:41 AM
  #359
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Originally Posted by Grind Jam Grind View Post
Gotta love how PenRefs fans always say how horrible ManBearPig is on the main boards, and how all he can do is chest snipe. But as soon as ManBearPig plays us, he always unleashes rockets into the net.
I believe someone on the Penguins board joked that one of the ice crew at Consol Energy Center had painted a Rangers logo on the post for him to aim at...

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03-17-2013, 11:51 AM
  #360
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bullcrap.

you want at least 30 goals from your 3rd line. 10 goals a guy on average is NOT alot to ask for.

If you get nothing from the 4th line that is acceptable playing 5-7 minutes a game.

but the third line should give you SOME offense.
Who are the biggest underperformers on the team? I will give you a clue. It's not the third liners. Do the names Gaborik and Richards ring a bell? If they were performing as expected, this thread would not exist.

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03-17-2013, 12:17 PM
  #361
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Who are the biggest underperformers on the team? I will give you a clue. It's not the third liners. Do the names Gaborik and Richards ring a bell? If they were performing as expected, this thread would not exist.
In the playoffs you need a good 3rd line that can produce. If Richards/Gabby are shut down by the other team's Defense you need other lines to step up. This is exactly what happened last year against us.

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03-17-2013, 12:24 PM
  #362
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Ok so this is what i envision. We beat the Hurricanes next game and then beat the Devils the game after to pull into a tie with the Devils and still have one game on hand. LGRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! **** the rest!!!!!!!!!!!

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03-17-2013, 12:32 PM
  #363
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oh boy

how are you criticizing callahan. he got off to a slow start and has been great recently.

trading the irreplaceable dubinsky and the wildly consistent anisimov for a super star former 1st overall pick who is currently leading the team in every category is definitely what is causing this problem. nash has been amazing and so far has been our best player hands down.
Yes, his production lately has improved, but he's still only put up 3rd line numbers with elite 1st line minutes. If his name were anything other than "Callahan", people here would have been calling for his head all season.

My bigger issue with him this year, however, is that the team--HIS team, since he's wearing that C on his chest--looks disinterested and lazy. When a team looks like that for an extended period of time, it's a poor reflection on the coach AND the Captain. More people should be pissed at Cally, not because he's a bad player or that he should be moved, but because we SHOULD expect more from him than 3rd line numbers and apparently no leadership. He's been probably the most disappointing player for me this year.


I didn't criticize the Nash trade because I thought Nash was talentless or wouldn't put up numbers. I criticized it because EVERY report out of Columbus talked about how he practiced when HE wanted to practice. He gave effort when HE wanted to give effort. If you'll notice, he was Columbus' best player and leading scorer as well. The problem was that players who COULDN'T half ass it and still produce followed his lead and developed bad habits. You all told me "don't worry. We've got Callahan. The team will follow his lead, not Nash's.". Yet here we are. The team looks a lot more like Columbus than the Rangers.

I said it before the trade. This is not a video game. You need more than talent to build a successful team. You need character and heart as well. We traded too much of the latter to get the former, and voila--we're the pre-lockout Rangers again.

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03-17-2013, 12:35 PM
  #364
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Yep, the lazy and disinterested Nash sure did pull Team Canada down in Vancouver. They definately looked like Columbus.

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03-17-2013, 01:32 PM
  #365
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Who are the biggest underperformers on the team? I will give you a clue. It's not the third liners. Do the names Gaborik and Richards ring a bell? If they were performing as expected, this thread would not exist.
to a certain extet, I agree, but the fact is that with a half way competent 3rd line offensively, you can withstand the horrid seasons that Gaborik and Richards are having.

every year not every top player is going to have their best seasons. Guys are goign to struggle. Having a 3rd line that is SOMEWHAT dangerous offensively allows for that without having to go through what we are going through.

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03-17-2013, 01:40 PM
  #366
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Yes, his production lately has improved, but he's still only put up 3rd line numbers with elite 1st line minutes. If his name were anything other than "Callahan", people here would have been calling for his head all season.

My bigger issue with him this year, however, is that the team--HIS team, since he's wearing that C on his chest--looks disinterested and lazy. When a team looks like that for an extended period of time, it's a poor reflection on the coach AND the Captain. More people should be pissed at Cally, not because he's a bad player or that he should be moved, but because we SHOULD expect more from him than 3rd line numbers and apparently no leadership. He's been probably the most disappointing player for me this year.


I didn't criticize the Nash trade because I thought Nash was talentless or wouldn't put up numbers. I criticized it because EVERY report out of Columbus talked about how he practiced when HE wanted to practice. He gave effort when HE wanted to give effort. If you'll notice, he was Columbus' best player and leading scorer as well. The problem was that players who COULDN'T half ass it and still produce followed his lead and developed bad habits. You all told me "don't worry. We've got Callahan. The team will follow his lead, not Nash's.". Yet here we are. The team looks a lot more like Columbus than the Rangers.

I said it before the trade. This is not a video game. You need more than talent to build a successful team. You need character and heart as well. We traded too much of the latter to get the former, and voila--we're the pre-lockout Rangers again.
These were my thoughts as well. Lindros put up exceptional numbers his first year here too. Still a bad trade. It's a lot about changing the culture of the team. Look at the Knicks, they trade Gallinari, Mozgov, Felton for Anthony and signed Stoudemire instead of Lee. Both put up numbers, but the character guys helped them win. The Rangers when acquiring Nash stepped away from blue collar hard working to a team that was trying to emulate on beating others based on finesse and skill alone.

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03-17-2013, 02:10 PM
  #367
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Yep, the lazy and disinterested Nash sure did pull Team Canada down in Vancouver. They definately looked like Columbus.
You're seriously comparing team Canada, a dream team, to any NHL team? And I'm not even weighing in on whether or not Nash is lazy, but there's a big difference between playing a short tournament with a guy and being his teammate for a full season, or multiple seasons, and practicing, playing and traveling with them everyday. You really think bad habits would rub off in such a brief tournament? I'm not saying Nash is lazy or rubbing off on the team, but your argument against is ridiculous. It didn't happen on that all star team he played on for three weeks so it must not be valid! Right.

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03-17-2013, 02:30 PM
  #368
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I agree with the majority of this. I find it odd that Ranger seems to go through much bigger trough to peak waves then other clubs. I understand that some of this is because even in the dark days we were always pushing for that #8 spot and thus didn't get high draft picks (or drafted Jessiman), but there's more it than just draft position and it is something the organisation really needs to look at.

Not sure about the Kreider to C, has he played there before. Think he'd be better off learning the game at his natural position. Do agree he needs to be called back up, it looks like he's re-found his scoring touch in the AHL and this team needs a new look
Thanks.

Totally open with Kreider.
If the Torts factor wasn't contaminating the results, I would say, double shift him, see what he does. It's an experiment, short term, not something we can't change later.

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03-17-2013, 02:57 PM
  #369
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The underlying theme of your post?

Management. Maybe Torts isn't the only problem. Maybe there really needs to be an overhaul not at the team/player level, but up and down the big wigs. There needs to be a new, fresh mentality throughout the entire organization. I'm still a big advocate of getting rid of Sather (and starting to strongly consider adding Torts to this short list) so long as we can hold on to our current scouting staff arrangements. Everyone keeps saying "Oh we need to trade for this, we need to trade for that, we still need a #1C, we still need a #1 whatever"..then complain about team chemistry. This team CAN battle back. This team DOES have fight in them. What they DON'T have is someone that can hold their attention and bring this trait out on a team level. Yes, Torts was able to once upon a time, but please don't try to tell me that no training camp is at fault for the way the team is playing. All I'm going to say about that is this: Ottawa. People have been saying he has lost this team and I think that is starting to really shine through. They don't care because he doesn't care. He'll be the first to throw them under the bus, but won't admit poor coaching. Why would they want to play for someone who won't hold himself accountable for his actions, and in the process pins everything solely on the players?
Thanks for the contribution.

Main underlying theme is to win, we need a minimum of enough talent, and need to keep adding to stay ahead of improving competition.

As to top to down, the issue is not entirely Slats, but who is doing the drafting for us. We are finally catching up with gord clark but we need to be sure that long term that pipeline keeps delivering for us. That would help with total development/acquisition needs.

As to trades, Sather can be shrewd, but key is not to look for unrealistic and rare swindles, but how many profitable trades we can make. Prior to recent history GMs are more isolated. Now better chance for competition of ideas to at least be raised by forum such as HFB, which the press probably reads and uses to some extent. I would expect that a guy like Post's Larry Brooks asks Slats about some of the deals we propose, off the record, and uses that as part of where he makes generalizations about "rangers want to unload ..." or "team is looking to add ...". When more hypotheticals are analyzed, that is better chance for a team to choose the best possible alternative.

For example, Cat Francis made that stupid trade, Ratelle + Park for Espo, Vadnais + Zanussi. If we knew about that before, he never would have been allowed to make THAT deal. A shake up deal, maybe, but not that exercise in stupidity.

Dolan, we could do better, we could do worse.
My beef with him is what he and Time Warner, etc. extort for cable, not the product that is the Rangers.

So there certainly is room for improvement, and we should seek improvement all around, but the one who's gotta go is Torts.

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03-17-2013, 03:09 PM
  #370
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You make some excellent points here. I wonder how many folks here regret the Nash trade. I am 50/50 on this.
Obviously, we would all still do the Nash trade as opposed to status quo and not aquiring Nash + increasing contracts.

The correct ? is, did we make the BEST trade for Nash?
These are the types of ? we have to constantly ask totry to find the best option.

The answer, btw, is obviously no, given Nash had them over a barrel.

The deal should have been Stepan (who Howson REALLY wanted) + Dubi + Redden (justifiable cap dump given we are accepting 80ish mil on Nash's deal).

Yes, we'd be out stepan but we'd still have AA, Erixon, our first, and both amnesty compliance buyouts.

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03-17-2013, 03:12 PM
  #371
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we're in 10th place..right?

3 points from the last playof spot and 8 points abouve the last ranked team in our division....

When is the panic button's gonna be pushed and where is the fail safe key ?

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03-17-2013, 03:16 PM
  #372
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Torts system is killing this team. What first roud picks and young players would want to play on Tort's? Come to Ny and play for the most boring team in the NHL, and sit in the doghouse for several years. Torts has to go so that the players we have can have a chance to open up a bit.
Tell it like is.

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03-17-2013, 03:21 PM
  #373
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I thought of one last scenario not examined.
Callahan is player coach, no torts.
Senior D atm Staal is D coach
Hank is G coach

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03-17-2013, 04:03 PM
  #374
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Who are the biggest underperformers on the team? I will give you a clue. It's not the third liners. Do the names Gaborik and Richards ring a bell? If they were performing as expected, this thread would not exist.
3rd line has to produce. I understand that on a team your top-6 has to be the BIG contributors, but on deep teams you will have 3rd line players hit 40 points.

Gaborik has 8 goals. Boyle has 1. Boyle on pace for 3 goals over the course of a regular season is probably more of an underachievement than Gaborik on pace for 25.

Most 3rd line players should score ~ 10 goals, and 30-40points. On a real deep team you might have a top 3rd liner hit 50 points. Those are those players who are on the cusp of a 2nd line or have 2nd line talent but their role is more suited for the checking unit. The Rangers 3rd line isn't even pacing at 10 points for a regular season. It's pathetic.

The Rangers slumping superstars wouldn't seem as bad as it was if we even got a goal from our third line once every three games.

Who scored for the Penguins yesterday? Wasn't Crosby, Kunitz, Neal, etc.

Brandon Sutter on the Penguins is the perfect example of what a 3rd line player should be. He is a 2nd line/3rd line talent, in his role can play effectively on the third line, and can produce 15 goals and 30+ points. That's what a decent third line forward should be doing.

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03-17-2013, 04:20 PM
  #375
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Torts system is killing this team. What first roud picks and young players would want to play on Tort's? Come to Ny and play for the most boring team in the NHL, and sit in the doghouse for several years. Torts has to go so that the players we have can have a chance to open up a bit.
Yeah i bet MDZ, Derek Stepan, JT Miller, Carl Hagelin, and Ryan McDonagh all really can't stand Torts for keeping them down

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