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Carey Price doesn't steal games

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Old
03-17-2013, 05:06 PM
  #276
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Originally Posted by Watsatheo View Post
I was just seconding how Halak is still 'treated like a 2nd class citizen' aka backup.

In terms of being 'handed' starting job, this is the case for most goalies. Huet was 'handed' the starting job when Theodore was traded just like Price was 'handed' the starting job when Huet was traded.

Keeping both would have resulted in the mess the Nucks are currently facing. Habs decided to go with the 23 year old big positional goalie over the 25 year old small reflex goalie when both were up for re-sign. Being shortsighted in such a decision would be deadly. Nucks will keep Schneider over Luongo despite Luongo being better now.

Price gave up 7 and 6 goals in a couple games. This would kill any goalie's 'stats'. With the shortened season, any good or bad game will heavily skew stats. For example, a 35 save shutout next game would inflate his save% to .918. He has had an bad stretch after being lights out for the first 3/4 of the season, no denying that. But before questioning his entire career, how about giving him a chance to bounce back?
Nobody is saying to take halak over price. Would I have seen what I could get for price?? absolutely, and if it was an overpayment you better believe I would have moved price.

It's not as black and white, as you're putting it, and things change so quickly in the nhl.

Not only that, price hasn't done anything that warrants him over halak as being shortsighted. For all we know, Halak gets hot at the right time and wins the cup. same for price.

let the play do the talking, not potential. right now, yes, price is better but I still think the record would be relatively the same with halak/buddaj and who knows what would be there in place of eller. could be a worse player than eller, so all we can compare is their history.

not what they could become...

we have no idea what price would've landed us, and maybe we don't get galchenyuk last year. so it's dumb to compare halak/price, because they're in such different situations.

I care about what price is doing, not halak. Price needs to be better, and the nuthugging around here is borderline sad.

price has accomplished nothing to be considered a top 5 goalie, nothing. that's what I expect from him, nothing less.

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03-17-2013, 05:15 PM
  #277
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Originally Posted by Nedved View Post
Nobody is saying to take halak over price. Would I have seen what I could get for price?? absolutely, and if it was an overpayment you better believe I would have moved price.

It's not as black and white, as you're putting it, and things change so quickly in the nhl.

Not only that, price hasn't done anything that warrants him over halak as being shortsighted. For all we know, Halak gets hot at the right time and wins the cup. same for price.

let the play do the talking, not potential. right now, yes, price is better but I still think the record would be relatively the same with halak/buddaj and who knows what would be there in place of eller. could be a worse player than eller, so all we can compare is their history.

not what they could become...

we have no idea what price would've landed us, and maybe we don't get galchenyuk last year. so it's dumb to compare halak/price, because they're in such different situations.

I care about what price is doing, not halak. Price needs to be better, and the nuthugging around here is borderline sad.

price has accomplished nothing to be considered a top 5 goalie, nothing. that's what I expect from him, nothing less.
Well if we have no idea what he could've landed us and have no such way of knowing regardless of the fact that they shopped him or not, doesn't that make it essentially moot?

Even if they could've gotten better than what they got for Halak, but thought he was a cornerstone for the team, which he has been since the trade, what does it matter? Why would you care about that? Just let go... Do you go back through the Gomez trade in your head every single night?

And Price has been doing perfectly fine for the past 2 and a half years, I have no idea what people are expecting, but it has to be so otherworldly that no single human being could manage to meet your expectations.

Simply put, you're a vindictive individual that has no rational thought process on this whole issue.

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03-17-2013, 05:16 PM
  #278
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I know I'm not contributing to the discussion being taken place directly above me. But it really sucks that Halak got traded to a team expecting to be the #1 goalie when he's yet again on a team riding a 1a and 1b goalie tandem. If he resigned with us, we'd be a really hard to beat team because each goalie would always be well rested before playing a game.

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03-17-2013, 05:20 PM
  #279
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I still don't see whats the point of the Price detractors to come in every PGT that Price played well to bash Price and the people praising him. This is the Habs board, some people are biased but can you blame them, its human nature.

You guys remind me of Kanye West.

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03-17-2013, 05:21 PM
  #280
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Originally Posted by Rosso Scuderia View Post
I still don't see whats the point of the Price detractors to come in every PGT that Price played well to bash Price and the people praising him. This is the Habs board, some people are biased but can you blame them, its human nature.

You guys remind me of Kanye West.
Persecution syndrome

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03-17-2013, 05:21 PM
  #281
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Originally Posted by ottawa View Post
I know I'm not contributing to the discussion being taken place directly above me. But it really sucks that Halak got traded to a team expecting to be the #1 goalie when he's yet again on a team riding a 1a and 1b goalie tandem. If he resigned with us, we'd be a really hard to beat team because each goalie would always be well rested before playing a game.
Halak is a platoon goalie. In a good season he can only play 50 games. It's strange how people forget how hot/cold Halak could get. Oh wait it's not strange, people only remember his playoff run.

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03-17-2013, 05:22 PM
  #282
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Nobody is saying to take halak over price. Would I have seen what I could get for price?? absolutely, and if it was an overpayment you better believe I would have moved price.

It's not as black and white, as you're putting it, and things change so quickly in the nhl.

Not only that, price hasn't done anything that warrants him over halak as being shortsighted. For all we know, Halak gets hot at the right time and wins the cup. same for price.

let the play do the talking, not potential. right now, yes, price is better but I still think the record would be relatively the same with halak/buddaj and who knows what would be there in place of eller. could be a worse player than eller, so all we can compare is their history.

not what they could become...

we have no idea what price would've landed us, and maybe we don't get galchenyuk last year. so it's dumb to compare halak/price, because they're in such different situations.

I care about what price is doing, not halak. Price needs to be better, and the nuthugging around here is borderline sad.

price has accomplished nothing to be considered a top 5 goalie, nothing. that's what I expect from him, nothing less.
That's where the difference lies. I expect Price to win games when he's between the pipes.

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03-17-2013, 05:24 PM
  #283
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Originally Posted by ottawa View Post
I know I'm not contributing to the discussion being taken place directly above me. But it really sucks that Halak got traded to a team expecting to be the #1 goalie when he's yet again on a team riding a 1a and 1b goalie tandem. If he resigned with us, we'd be a really hard to beat team because each goalie would always be well rested before playing a game.
Ever thought that maybe he's simply not good enough to be a legitimate #1 goalie? And by that, I mean a goalie that can play 65-70 games a season. Since joining the Blue, he hasn't really outplayed the 2nd goalie. This season, we can't even say that he has outplayed their 3rd goalie.


Last edited by Rosso Scuderia: 03-17-2013 at 05:32 PM.
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03-17-2013, 05:24 PM
  #284
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Originally Posted by ottawa View Post
I know I'm not contributing to the discussion being taken place directly above me. But it really sucks that Halak got traded to a team expecting to be the #1 goalie when he's yet again on a team riding a 1a and 1b goalie tandem. If he resigned with us, we'd be a really hard to beat team because each goalie would always be well rested before playing a game.
Halak is actually in his perfect situation while in Montreal it would be the Vancouver situation.

You have a goalie in Price who needs to play 60+ games to be effective.

In Halak you have a goalie who must split the season with another similar goalie and thus play around 40 games each. You need him with another similar goalie and then ride the goalie if one catches fire in the playoffs.

Add in the media goalie debate, it would just cause even more fire.

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03-17-2013, 06:04 PM
  #285
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Well if we have no idea what he could've landed us and have no such way of knowing regardless of the fact that they shopped him or not, doesn't that make it essentially moot?

Even if they could've gotten better than what they got for Halak, but thought he was a cornerstone for the team, which he has been since the trade, what does it matter? Why would you care about that? Just let go... Do you go back through the Gomez trade in your head every single night?

And Price has been doing perfectly fine for the past 2 and a half years, I have no idea what people are expecting, but it has to be so otherworldly that no single human being could manage to meet your expectations.

Simply put, you're a vindictive individual that has no rational thought process on this whole issue.
why are you personally attacking me?

yes, it is moot and that's why I want to talk about price and what he does for our team. However, people are being revisionist with carey's history.


people said price earned his starting role, but it was constantly handed to him, as explained.

someone made a snarky remark about how halak being backup in st.louis is an injustice, and I don't think halak deserves to be starting anyways. that doesn't change history.

yes, it is moot. that's why I only talk about price, and hate when people say: the habs made the right decision.

no, we don't know because of all the invariables and that's why I end up getting upset.

Price is paid like a top 5, people claim he is top 5, but has done nothing to warrant it. Guys like Rinne, Ward, Thomas, Miller, Lundqvist all have been at least done something. Yes, he has been 'fine' absolutely, but again people act like he is one of the league's best. he's simply not there yet.

That's the group I expect him to be him with, but he's outside the top group looking in. Will he get there? maybe, and I hope, but people already put him there and has done nothing.

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03-17-2013, 06:06 PM
  #286
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Well like I said, I was just pointing out the fact that Price never did actually win the #1 job in Montreal. He was handed the #1 spot on three occasions. The first time, he lost to Huet, the second time he lost to Halak and the third time, they went and got someone who wouldn't compete with him.

For choice of backups, yes I would say they did a decent job but we had opportunities to get a much better backup and I sincerely believe Habs mangement didn't want to get anybody who would even put doubt into people's mind who the #1 is in Montreal. For example, they would be scared to sign Biron since if he goes on a winning streak, the fans would demand Biron to start.

I think it's wrong to manage a team in that way ..where you have absolutely no internal competition. Another poster pointed in this thread that we have nothing in Hamilton and nothing in our depth chart regarding goal tending. If Price were to go down, we are done and I agree with him. Why are we in this "fear" of getting people of quality in that position? Although this was all with the old management and maybe the new management will change things.
So basically you think Montreal needs another goaltending controversy? No I think this management team has a pretty good feel on the city of Montreal and its idiotic overreactions to everything when it comes to its beloved Habs.

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03-17-2013, 06:12 PM
  #287
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That's where the difference lies. I expect Price to win games when he's between the pipes.
okay? so do I, but buddaj is 4-1-1 and I'm more concerned about price in the playoffs and his lackluster history. 1 series win.

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03-17-2013, 06:14 PM
  #288
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okay? so do I, but buddaj is 4-1-1 and I'm more concerned about price in the playoffs and his lackluster history. 1 series win.
Which round should have he won then?

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03-17-2013, 06:21 PM
  #289
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Which round should have he won then?
he didn't win...I could care less about coulda/shoulda/woulda.

just win, no excuses.

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03-17-2013, 06:25 PM
  #290
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Originally Posted by Rosso Scuderia View Post
Ever thought that maybe he's simply not good enough to be a legitimate #1 goalie? And by that, I mean a goalie that can play 65-70 games a season. Since joining the Blue, he hasn't really outplayed the 2nd goalie. This season, we can't even say that he has outplayed their 3rd goalie.
Halak's durability has always been a question...his injuries are now a trend...luckily for us, Price has been relatively healthy...

Halak has 11 starts this year, and Price has 15 wins...come on guys, we are having a good season and Price is a major reason why...

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03-17-2013, 06:26 PM
  #291
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he didn't win...I could care less about coulda/shoulda/woulda.

just win, no excuses.
Yes and the team is winning now !

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03-17-2013, 06:29 PM
  #292
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he didn't win...I could care less about coulda/shoulda/woulda.

just win, no excuses.
Then Tomas Plekanec is an horrible player, and let's play Travis Moen instead of Max Pacioretty.

You can't expect a goalie to win a playoff round when its team is clearly outmatched or inferior.

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03-17-2013, 06:36 PM
  #293
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Halak's durability has always been a question...his injuries are now a trend...luckily for us, Price has been relatively healthy...

Halak has 11 starts this year, and Price has 15 wins...come on guys, we are having a good season and Price is a major reason why...
Halak is doing a great job backing up Jake Allen. Halak will have a hard time regaining his spot long term. Allen is the real deal.

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03-17-2013, 06:39 PM
  #294
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Then Tomas Plekanec is an horrible player, and let's play Travis Moen instead of Max Pacioretty.

You can't expect a goalie to win a playoff round when its team is clearly outmatched or inferior.
exactly. if people are going to give price credit for the wins, which we all care about, then he can take blame for the losses too.

see halak/theodore/giguere/hasek/kipper/roloson.

it can happen. not common, but happens...

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03-17-2013, 06:41 PM
  #295
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This is priceless...

Posters say that Price was handed jobs and say it as a matter of fact. This is purely an opinion that you hold and nothing more and posters go through all sorts of gymnastics to validate your mantra. For this to be true then there most be some kind of conspiracy.... maybe he`s the Manchurian Candidate chosen,bred and placed to ruin the franchise.

Seriously, this is the NHL, position aren't handed out, they are earned based on a variety of factors which can include such important factors as age, projection, size, strength, durability, technique all which Price has an abundance of and much better than both Halak and Huet. Huet was technically terrible and this was proven in Chicago. Halak is streaky but small and fragile - this also proven. So management chose Price in both situations and they chose correctly.

The rest is just useless chatter and as I said before, propagated by those with an ax to grind or a personal dislike for the individual - who they feel achieved to much to soon. This is very symptomatic of disenfranchised individuals who turn to bring down powerful institutions and/or successful individuals.

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03-17-2013, 06:49 PM
  #296
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Originally Posted by Nedved View Post
why are you personally attacking me?

yes, it is moot and that's why I want to talk about price and what he does for our team. However, people are being revisionist with carey's history.
Then why bring it up in the first place? Basing an argument over a series of hypotheticals brings absolutely nothing to the discussion.

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people said price earned his starting role, but it was constantly handed to him, as explained.
That is true. But that's a choice most if not all organizations make when it comes to developing a player they feel is going to be a pillar of their success.

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someone made a snarky remark about how halak being backup in st.louis is an injustice, and I don't think halak deserves to be starting anyways. that doesn't change history.
Irrelevant, but okay.

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yes, it is moot. that's why I only talk about price, and hate when people say: the habs made the right decision.

no, we don't know because of all the invariables and that's why I end up getting upset.
If you're upset about a great youth player becoming a core player on the team, while having a great starter in net, all of this on a contending team despite having a plethora of young players in key roles, well maybe you should reconsider supporting this team. Because clearly, even when everything seems to be going well, there's something irritating you.

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Price is paid like a top 5, people claim he is top 5, but has done nothing to warrant it. Guys like Rinne, Ward, Thomas, Miller, Lundqvist all have been at least done something. Yes, he has been 'fine' absolutely, but again people act like he is one of the league's best. he's simply not there yet.

That's the group I expect him to be him with, but he's outside the top group looking in. Will he get there? maybe, and I hope, but people already put him there and has done nothing.
I really don't see how any of the previously mentionned players have done really anything more. Playoff success? Sure (for some), but it's not like they were out there playing like Hasek with those godawful Buffalo teams.

I'd put him in that group without question. Every one of them has had off performances once in a while, and all of them are at a point in their career where consistency should be at its peak, since they are in their prime. There's no goaltender that goes out there and shuts the door night in, night out. And all of those players depend largely on their team to play well enough for them to win consistently.

Price is a stud and is getting better still. I don't even know why some people get ******** over it.

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03-17-2013, 06:50 PM
  #297
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Why does it matter if he was handed the job if he plays like a number one in the NHL?

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03-17-2013, 07:14 PM
  #298
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Then why bring it up in the first place? Basing an argument over a series of hypotheticals brings absolutely nothing to the discussion.
okay.


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That is true. But that's a choice most if not all organizations make when it comes to developing a player they feel is going to be a pillar of their success.
I would agree.


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Originally Posted by Em Ancien View Post
Irrelevant, but okay.
It is how halak came up...


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Originally Posted by Em Ancien View Post
If you're upset about a great youth player becoming a core player on the team, while having a great starter in net, all of this on a contending team despite having a plethora of young players in key roles, well maybe you should reconsider supporting this team. Because clearly, even when everything seems to be going well, there's something irritating you.
I'm not upset about price, and, in fact, I like price. I'm upset about the pedestal and the 'hater' comments. Price, right now, is around top 10, maybe. and again, quick judging my criticality when I root for this team; however, price was given every opportunity to be where he is, that's fine, but it's how it happened.



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I really don't see how any of the previously mentionned players have done really anything more. Playoff success? Sure (for some), but it's not like they were out there playing like Hasek with those godawful Buffalo teams.



I'd put him in that group without question. Every one of them has had off performances once in a while, and all of them are at a point in their career where consistency should be at its peak, since they are in their prime. There's no goaltender that goes out there and shuts the door night in, night out. And all of those players depend largely on their team to play well enough for them to win consistently.
to each their own.

absolutely.



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Price is a stud and is getting better still. I don't even know why some people get ******** over it.
price is good; however, he's not top 5 and if he was thread titles: price doesn't steal wins, wouldn't exist because this play would be a norm. watch other teams, and see price is not different than most middle of the pack goalies this year. he just isn't.

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03-17-2013, 07:31 PM
  #299
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lol. If I were in the playoffs, there's no goalie I trust more than Brodeur, if he is healthy. he's what? 8-3 or something until he was injured this season? the guy outperforms carey, almost yearly.
Right. Except last year, when their GAA was virtually identical, and Price had a .916 sv% compared to Brodeur's .908. On the worst team in the Eastern Conference no less.

Or the year before that when Price led the NHL in wins, had a better GAA (2.35 to 2.45) and a better sv% (.923 to .903)

I like Brodeur as much as the next guy, but Price > Marty at this point in time. And frankly I don't see that changing anytime soon.

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Great! So let's agree that the "knocks" are just as bad for everybody else which makes nobody a lock....Yet, why would Price be the only one in the world to be a lock?

More and more, it looks like most of the arguments is "He's great and he's ours so shut up", way more than a legitimate debate about how good he really is or isn't.

And no...I don't see him as a lock. It CLEARLY doesn't mean that in due time he won't be....but if he struggles till the end...and has average playoffs while others succeed...why the heck would he most certainly be a lock? 'Cause he's Price and he's a Hab? Even if we agree that NOBODY are locks....shouldn't we then agree that really NOBODY is....INCLUDING Price?

By the way...not sure what your point is when I talk about depth. What having him being top 3 on any other team means anything? I'm talking about Canada...where this is the country where they always had the most candidates for the job. For the very first time, Brodeur might not be in play.

In 2010: Fleury, Brodeur, Luongo, Ward and Mason. Mason is obviousy out. Fleury is inconsistent as hell and is not the Fleury he was once. Brodeur won't be there. Yet, at the time, those 5 were an incredible bunch.

Now 2014: Price, Ward, Luongo, Fleury, and Corey Crawford and tell me REALLY how that's not the weakest crop of the Olympics for Canada? Look at this year's stats and tell me how many Canadian goalies shines on the Save% and GAA stats?
Price, Luongo, Lundqvist, Rinne, Quick. Those guys are locks to play for their respective teams. This is obviously where we disagree, but I can't see any of them playing their way off the team, regardless of how bad they were. Conversely, if Elliot goes out and repeats his performance from last season, I don't see him playing his way ONTO the team either. So sure Price might get injured or play so crappy that he plays his way off the team, but what has he done up until this point to make you think he is going to get anything but better?

If I am starting a team tomorrow, I only take 2 guys ahead of Price in net: Rinne and Lundqvist. Call me a homer, but I think he is that good, and we have been jaded by watching him grow up right before our eyes. Sure he has had both his ups and downs. Nobody is perfect, and he is a maturing goaltender playing in the most hockey crazed market in the league. You think a 20 or 21 year old Lundqvist would have fared any better in the NHL had he been over here? Or Miller? Or Rinne? Not likely, otherwise they probably would have been in the NHL wouldn't they?

As for my comment about top 3 in any country, it is pretty clear what I meant. You stated that the only likely reason Price would be in Sochi is because of Canada's lack of depth. Well, that lack of depth we have still equates to him being among the best at his position no matter the passport. So if he is still top 3 on any country in the world, then how can we say it is only due to lack of depth on Canada's part that he would get a job?

And just a heads up: Contained in that lack of depth (Price, Ward, Luongo, Fleury, Crawford) we have 2 Stanley Cup winners, 1 Conn Smythe winner, and another goalie who lost in game 7 of the Cup Finals. What other country can boast depth like that? Not to mention the current NHL wins leader and the No.1 goaltender for a team that went half a season without a regulation loss. What depth indeed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nedved View Post
he didn't win...I could care less about coulda/shoulda/woulda.

just win, no excuses.
Well, 2 years ago he led the NHL in wins, which he just so happens to be doing again this year, so the guy clearly wins more often than he loses. Playoffs are where he is going to have to prove himself obviously.

He is still only 25, an age when Rinne, Miller, and Lundvist were either not even good enough yet for the NHL, or just beginning their careers started. Price is a 6 year NHL veteran who is just hitting his prime.

Let's give the guy a little slack before we start comparing him to these players who couldn't do what he could for the past 7 seasons at the same age.

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03-17-2013, 07:52 PM
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Originally Posted by ryanwb View Post
Right. Except last year, when their GAA was virtually identical, and Price had a .916 sv% compared to Brodeur's .908. On the worst team in the Eastern Conference no less.

Or the year before that when Price led the NHL in wins, had a better GAA (2.35 to 2.45) and a better sv% (.923 to .903)

I like Brodeur as much as the next guy, but Price > Marty at this point in time. And frankly I don't see that changing anytime soon.



Price, Luongo, Lundqvist, Rinne, Quick. Those guys are locks to play for their respective teams. This is obviously where we disagree, but I can't see any of them playing their way off the team, regardless of how bad they were. Conversely, if Elliot goes out and repeats his performance from last season, I don't see him playing his way ONTO the team either. So sure Price might get injured or play so crappy that he plays his way off the team, but what has he done up until this point to make you think he is going to get anything but better?

If I am starting a team tomorrow, I only take 2 guys ahead of Price in net: Rinne and Lundqvist. Call me a homer, but I think he is that good, and we have been jaded by watching him grow up right before our eyes. Sure he has had both his ups and downs. Nobody is perfect, and he is a maturing goaltender playing in the most hockey crazed market in the league. You think a 20 or 21 year old Lundqvist would have fared any better in the NHL had he been over here? Or Miller? Or Rinne? Not likely, otherwise they probably would have been in the NHL wouldn't they?

As for my comment about top 3 in any country, it is pretty clear what I meant. You stated that the only likely reason Price would be in Sochi is because of Canada's lack of depth. Well, that lack of depth we have still equates to him being among the best at his position no matter the passport. So if he is still top 3 on any country in the world, then how can we say it is only due to lack of depth on Canada's part that he would get a job?

And just a heads up: Contained in that lack of depth (Price, Ward, Luongo, Fleury, Crawford) we have 2 Stanley Cup winners, 1 Conn Smythe winner, and another goalie who lost in game 7 of the Cup Finals. What other country can boast depth like that? Not to mention the current NHL wins leader and the No.1 goaltender for a team that went half a season without a regulation loss. What depth indeed.



Well, 2 years ago he led the NHL in wins, which he just so happens to be doing again this year, so the guy clearly wins more often than he loses. Playoffs are where he is going to have to prove himself obviously.

He is still only 25, an age when Rinne, Miller, and Lundvist were either not even good enough yet for the NHL, or just beginning their careers started. Price is a 6 year NHL veteran who is just hitting his prime.

Let's give the guy a little slack before we start comparing him to these players who couldn't do what he could for the past 7 seasons at the same age.


1) To each their own. Just last year brodeur helped his team to the final...not a less than stellar devils team. they played much better with him in net, at the start of the year, then now.

Maybe I'm a bit of a brodeur homer. He's my favourite goalie and want to believe he can play forever.

2) Now this I can agree with.

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