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Post Game & 3 Stars : 3/16 DET @ VAN

View Poll Results: 3 Stars
Zetterberg 50 81.97%
Howard 45 73.77%
Datsyuk 57 93.44%
Kindl 5 8.20%
Abdelkader 10 16.39%
Franzen 0 0%
White 0 0%
Burrows 2 3.28%
Cleary 3 4.92%
Kronwall 2 3.28%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 61. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
03-17-2013, 04:00 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by Brick Top View Post
No, he deserves credit for being willing to use his strength to go to the net. He finally played a physical game and actually knocked a few guys down (I was probably happier to see that than the human backboard goals he scored). I don't mind that he scored, but I do hope that Kenny and Babs don't look at the scoresheet from that one game and think that's any sort of justification to have him in the future plans as being an offensive player.

I just think he's got the hands and hockey IQ of a 4th liner, so he can't go back down the lineup fast enough for my liking. Just hoping that he consistently plays with the physical edge he showed last night, b/c he seems to have lost that agitator ability that he used do show.
Listen to yourself, man

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03-17-2013, 05:23 PM
  #52
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Listen to yourself, man
Sorry, meant to say that I was overjoyed at his goal scoring exploits.

Just pointing out that it's not like I'm upset that he scored, just that neither goal was due an ounce of offensive ability on his part, and I'm hoping that those goals aren't used as justification to keep him on a scoring line.

See- "don't mind that he scored" takes way less effort to type.

Questions for you: do you think he's asset to the team on a scoring line? do you expect more production out of someone who has played with Datsyuk for so many games?

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03-17-2013, 05:39 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Brick Top View Post
Sorry, meant to say that I was overjoyed at his goal scoring exploits.

Just pointing out that it's not like I'm upset that he scored, just that neither goal was due an ounce of offensive ability on his part, and I'm hoping that those goals aren't used as justification to keep him on a scoring line.

See- "don't mind that he scored" takes way less effort to type.

Questions for you: do you think he's asset to the team on a scoring line? do you expect more production out of someone who has played with Datsyuk for so many games?
I think it's weird anyone would have to say that they're not mad someone on their team scored. Seems counter productive to the point of playing the game.

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03-17-2013, 05:42 PM
  #54
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I think it's weird anyone would have to say that they're not mad someone on their team scored. Seems counter productive to the point of playing the game.
It's not weird at all if you think about it instead of trying to judge people.

If you think Abdelkader on Datsyuk's wing hurts Detroit more than it helps, then you don't want him to score goals and buy 2-3 more weeks on the line.

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03-17-2013, 05:52 PM
  #55
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Abdelkader is a +6 in the past 13 games playing primarily on Datsyuk's line against the other team's top line. They are outscoring the other team's top line (isn't that the goal of their line?) and Dats has 14 points over that same timespan- actually a better point per game production than his career norms and right in line with what he's done after the 1st lockout. How exactly is that line hurting Detroit? It's worked out well- it's been Z's line that has only been treading water. Brunner should probably be on the 3rd line to get himself far easier matchups.

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03-17-2013, 06:03 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by The Fading Captain View Post
It's not weird at all if you think about it instead of trying to judge people.

If you think Abdelkader on Datsyuk's wing hurts Detroit more than it helps, then you don't want him to score goals and buy 2-3 more weeks on the line.
I want to see the Wings win regardless of my personal feelings about certain players or decisions. So, whether or not I want Abdelkader on the top line is irrelevant if he actually produces at times there, since it helps the team.

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03-17-2013, 06:10 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Roy S View Post
Abdelkader is a +6 in the past 13 games playing primarily on Datsyuk's line against the other team's top line. They are outscoring the other team's top line (isn't that the goal of their line?) and Dats has 14 points over that same timespan- actually a better point per game production than his career norms and right in line with what he's done after the 1st lockout. How exactly is that line hurting Detroit? It's worked out well- it's been Z's line that has only been treading water. Brunner should probably be on the 3rd line to get himself far easier matchups.
Any line with Datsyuk is going to produce + players and beat the opposition's lines. He is that good.

The question is: would the team be better off if Datsyuk was playing with someone with more hockey sense. And the answer is absolutely yes. He would be producing even more points, they would still be outscoring the opposition, and all the same.

When has a line with Datsyuk ever been defensively unreliable? The guy is so damn good and so damn smart. He can carry Homer. He can carry anyone. So give him a toy to play with and watch him go. Franzen's pass to him in Edmonton was a perfect example. Franzen might be a floater, but he's a smart hockey player with offensive instincts. He knows who to give the puck and how to get it to him. Cleary and Abby are 100% grinders, they can't play that game. Franzen slow plays it, gives Datsyuk a perfect pass as he's gathering up a full head of steam, and Datsyuk goes to work.

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03-17-2013, 06:46 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Heaton View Post
I think it's weird anyone would have to say that they're not mad someone on their team scored. Seems counter productive to the point of playing the game.
I agree- it is weird, but that's where we're at with Babs and his love affair with #8.

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Originally Posted by The Fading Captain View Post
It's not weird at all if you think about it instead of trying to judge people.

If you think Abdelkader on Datsyuk's wing hurts Detroit more than it helps, then you don't want him to score goals and buy 2-3 more weeks on the line.
Yeah, don't pull a hammy getting on and off your high horse, Heaton.

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I want to see the Wings win regardless of my personal feelings about certain players or decisions. So, whether or not I want Abdelkader on the top line is irrelevant if he actually produces at times there, since it helps the team.
I believe producing "at times" is the operative phrase here. "At times" is basically once in a blue moon with Abdelkader, which shouldn't be sufficient for a top 6 winger.

I don't think there's a team in the league with playoff aspirations that would actually want Abby in the top 6. I don't think he's a long term answer there, but Babs' fascination with him is undeniable. Babs seems just crazy enough that the occasional offensive explosion from Abby (to date, an empty netter and 2 Pavel bankshots) may just keep him on the 2nd line. Which doesn't help the team in the big picture, IMO.

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03-17-2013, 06:50 PM
  #59
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Red Wings fans, 2013 season: "We don't mind if our players score"

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03-17-2013, 07:12 PM
  #60
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Questions for you: do you think he's asset to the team on a scoring line? do you expect more production out of someone who has played with Datsyuk for so many games?
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Red Wings fans, 2013 season: "We don't mind if our players score"
Wings fans, 2013 edition- proudly ducking questions for which they have no answer.

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03-17-2013, 07:27 PM
  #61
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Wings fans, 2013 edition- proudly ducking questions for which they have no answer.
I think Abdelkader is an asset to the team wherever he plays. Because if Babcock has him up there it means he thinks Gator is an asset there and that's good enough for me. The fact that we're discussing this after Abdelkader pots two goals in a game really baffles me.

Yes, I would expect a more skilled winger would be benefiting more from having Datsyuk as a center. I'm sure someone like Hossa would find the back of the net more. Except we don't have Hossa and we're not trying to be a one line team.

But now we have the unique situation of fans loathing a player to the point where they are indifferent to his success because they'd rather see him replaced. And most of that is misplaced, I think.

It's really a classic case of confirmation bias. I have first hand experience with it myself. I dislike Kronwall a great deal and I noticed that I would only make note of all the bad plays he made and was blind to any decent plays he might make. I thought he sucked, I only saw more evidence that he sucked and that just fed right back into being convinced he was awful.

I've noticed that in myself and I try to temper it and be objective. And what do you know, I started seeing that Kronwall might actually have enough skill to play in the NHL. Barely.... but that's another thread.

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03-17-2013, 07:32 PM
  #62
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Because if Babcock has him up there it means he thinks Gator is an asset there and that's good enough for me. The fact that we're discussing this after Abdelkader pots two goals in a game really baffles me.
So, you just blindly accept any decision Babcock makes. Period.

I mean, I guess we all knew that, but it's good to hear you say it out loud. To you, Babcock is incapable of making mistakes. If he does something, that's good enough for you. Gotcha buddy!

And Abby's goals were basically without any input from him. He went to the net. Great. Datsyuk is the one who gained entry, made the moves, got the puck to the net. Hell, Abby didn't even use his stick. It says something that in the many games he's had in the top6 with Datsyuk, his only goals have been an EN goal and a couple in which Datsyuk bounced it off him.

If those are the goals you have to point to in order to justify his playing time up there, then go for it. Just know how pathetic that is.

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03-17-2013, 07:38 PM
  #63
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So, you just blindly accept any decision Babcock makes. Period.

I mean, I guess we all knew that, but it's good to hear you say it out loud. To you, Babcock is incapable of making mistakes. If he does something, that's good enough for you. Gotcha buddy!

And Abby's goals were basically without any input from him. He went to the net. Great. Datsyuk is the one who gained entry, made the moves, got the puck to the net. Hell, Abby didn't even use his stick. It says something that in the many games he's had in the top6 with Datsyuk, his only goals have been an EN goal and a couple in which Datsyuk bounced it off him.

If those are the goals you have to point to in order to justify his playing time up there, then go for it. Just know how pathetic that is.
I don't understand you at all. Why are you angry at me? What did I do to you?

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03-17-2013, 07:43 PM
  #64
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Babcock's reason is that Abby is defensively responsible - not to be mistaken for defensively apt - and he goes to the hard areas to battle for pucks the way Homer did.

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03-17-2013, 07:50 PM
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The Datsyuk linemates things is exactly the same debate Pens fans have with Crosby and his wings over the years. The best center of our generation is being paired with Pascal Dupuis. He's basically their Bertuzzi.

Lots of HFboards Pens fans don't think Blysma is worth a damn.

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03-17-2013, 07:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brick Top View Post
Wings fans, 2013 edition- proudly ducking questions for which they have no answer.
It's not about whether or not we want Abdelkader on his line though, or whether he is or can be effective there. You're missing the point.

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03-17-2013, 08:00 PM
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The Datsyuk linemates things is exactly the same debate Pens fans have with Crosby and his wings over the years. The best center of our generation is being paired with Pascal Dupuis. He's basically their Bertuzzi.

Lots of HFboards Pens fans don't think Blysma is worth a damn.
Look at the Sharks, they're a few losses away from a nuclear meltdown.

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03-17-2013, 08:15 PM
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I want to see the Wings win regardless of my personal feelings about certain players or decisions. So, whether or not I want Abdelkader on the top line is irrelevant if he actually produces at times there, since it helps the team.


So, if Abdelkader goes 40 games without a goal, drags down our best player for 3 weeks, scores two fluke goals that cement him on a line... you're going to cheer for him, damnit...

even if it means that he could sabotage the Datsyuk line for 3 more weeks?

Because you "want to win?"

One could EASILY argue that you're actually rooting for Detroit to lose more games.

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03-17-2013, 08:15 PM
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It's not about whether or not we want Abdelkader on his line though, or whether he is or can be effective there. You're missing the point.
And he is not effective there.

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03-17-2013, 08:16 PM
  #70
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It's not about whether or not we want Abdelkader on his line though, or whether he is or can be effective there. You're missing the point.
But at the expense of others who might be more effective given the same opportunity?

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03-17-2013, 08:24 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by SoupGuru View Post
Red Wings fans, 2013 season: "We don't mind if our players score"

What's funny is we get down on guys that under perform but when they do actually perform, we still crap on them. There are just some guys that have grown stale...we're a long way from '08-09. I'd like to hear one person here say they'd rather have Samuelsson in this lineup over Tatar or Nyquist. I like Bert but has this team really missed him that much? The thing they've missed is Helm's speed as a 3rd line center. I think more of the resentment towards certain players...coughClearycough...is more of a shot towards Holland for not willing to change or give the kids a chance.

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03-17-2013, 08:39 PM
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What's funny is we get down on guys that under perform but when they do actually perform, we still crap on them. There are just some guys that have grown stale...we're a long way from '08-09. I'd like to hear one person here say they'd rather have Samuelsson in this lineup over Tatar or Nyquist. I like Bert but has this team really missed him that much? The thing they've missed is Helm's speed as a 3rd line center. I think more of the resentment towards certain players...coughClearycough...is more of a shot towards Holland for not willing to change or give the kids a chance.
Wings fans are awful with their "what have you done for me lately" syndrome. You get injured for any length of time and you become a hack in the fans' minds. Bertuzzi puts together some streaks of really decent play and plays a big game. We don't have a real power forward otherwise. Sammy? It's hard to tell since we haven't had a chance to get reacquainted. But I get the impression he knows what it takes to win at this level. And who else is going to replace Brunner on the PP point when Williams isn't available?

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03-17-2013, 08:41 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by RedMenace View Post
But at the expense of others who might be more effective given the same opportunity?
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Originally Posted by The Fading Captain View Post
And he is not effective there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fading Captain View Post
So, if Abdelkader goes 40 games without a goal, drags down our best player for 3 weeks, scores two fluke goals that cement him on a line... you're going to cheer for him, damnit...

even if it means that he could sabotage the Datsyuk line for 3 more weeks?

Because you "want to win?"

One could EASILY argue that you're actually rooting for Detroit to lose more games.
Yeah, because me being happy that Abdelkader contributed in a game and we won is rooting against the team to win, or rooting for Abdelkader to stay on that line. And being angry that Abdelkader contributed is doing the right thing - even though the chances of Abdelakder 'cementing' himself on that line is slim to none.

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03-17-2013, 08:49 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by The Fading Captain View Post
So, if Abdelkader goes 40 games without a goal, drags down our best player for 3 weeks, scores two fluke goals that cement him on a line... you're going to cheer for him, damnit...

even if it means that he could sabotage the Datsyuk line for 3 more weeks?

Because you "want to win?"

One could EASILY argue that you're actually rooting for Detroit to lose more games.
Well this Abdelkader sabotage has Datsyuk on his best scoring pace since the 08-09 season.

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03-17-2013, 09:01 PM
  #75
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Well this Abdelkader sabotage has Datsyuk on his best scoring pace since the 08-09 season.
Imagine if he had an actual winger....

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