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The Luongo Thread - Razor Ramon Edition (MOD WARNING POST #922)

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Old
03-17-2013, 06:15 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by Hal 9000 View Post
Do you ever see Edler or Bieksa apologizing to our goalies for their bad giveaways, poor coverage, deflections and outright screening of their own goalies. We saw Byfuglien turn and apologize for doing the exact same thing to Pavelec in the easly game.
Do you ever see those guys do that to Lu when he lets in a softy? Maybe they should start.

You don't need to apologize for making a mistake, everyone on your team knows that your aren't trying to make mistakes. When someone else makes a mistake, it's a good opportunity to support them... or show them up. I know what I'd rather our goalie do. To each their own I guess.

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03-17-2013, 06:15 PM
  #52
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I'm still in shock that both the Nucks goaltenders are crapping the bed so far. I always thought they would be the teams biggest asset this yr, so far it's the opposite. They both are the albatross dragging this team down.

Both goalies have a well below league average even strength (EV) SV%. I'm not sure Luongo's ever had this low EV SV%. Cory hasn't since he's became a backup. This team is not getting the goaltending it needs to win games, plain and simple. This team has better EV underlying #'s that it's ever had, and they can't get a save. Yes, they aren't scoring as many goals - but that's to be expected IMO due to playing solely in the West. Conference this yr.

One has to hope that, due to small sample sizes, the goalies are going through a funk and will get back to normal soon. Unfortunately, they only have 23 more games to regain 'normal', if not - this team isn't going far in the playoffs with these guys as they're performing now.

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03-17-2013, 06:18 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by SunshineRays View Post
I'm still in shock that both the Nucks goaltenders are crapping the bed so far. I always thought they would be the teams biggest asset this yr, so far it's the opposite. They both are the albatross dragging this team down.

Both goalies have a well below league average even strength (EV) SV%. I'm not sure Luongo's ever had this low EV SV%. Cory hasn't since he's became a backup. This team is not getting the goaltending it needs to win games, plain and simple. This team has better EV underlying #'s that it's ever had, and they can't get a save. Yes, they aren't scoring as many goals - but that's to be expected IMO due to playing solely in the West. Conference this yr.

One has to hope that, due to small sample sizes, the goalies are going through a funk and will get back to normal soon. Unfortunately, they only have 23 more games to regain 'normal', if not - this team isn't going far in the playoffs with these guys as they're performing now.
Maybe that's because defensively this team is garbage, and offensively this team isn't good enough to get it done, so there's too much pressure on both goaltenders to have to bail our ***** out night after night and finally it's all come crashing down?

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Old
03-17-2013, 06:29 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
Maybe that's because defensively this team is garbage, and offensively this team isn't good enough to get it done, so there's too much pressure on both goaltenders to have to bail our ***** out night after night and finally it's all come crashing down?

There's definitely an argument. But I'd suggest this team is much better defensivly than they were at the begging of this yr (when they were getting good goaltending). The team is limiting the opposition to 'normal' scoring chances lately (meaning around 12-15 per game). Th

Offensively yes, it's been a struggle. Through 27 games last yr Canucks had 33 pts, they have 32 pts through the same amount of games this yr. So they're on the same 'pace'.

The difference: goal scoring is down by 20 goals, and goals against is up by 11. They are playing primarily in the west this yr, so goal scoring down is not surprising. 8 of the top 10 points league leaders are from the east. The eastern teams have scored more than 80+ goals than the west this yr.

The issue as I see is goaltending. Teams aren't scoring in the west, yet they are lighting up the Canucks. There are 8 teams in the west with better GA/per game than Canucks. That's never been the case in the past. When you see both goaltenders EV SV% and all the stat guys are saying "they're not getting the goaltending, I'd say "they're not getting the goaltending". The Canucks EV underlying #'s are better than they've ever been since stats were kept. They are the 2nd best EV puck possession team in the league. They're just not getting the goaltending IMO.


Last edited by SunshineRays: 03-17-2013 at 06:56 PM.
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Old
03-17-2013, 08:36 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by SunshineRays View Post
I'm still in shock that both the Nucks goaltenders are crapping the bed so far. I always thought they would be the teams biggest asset this yr, so far it's the opposite. They both are the albatross dragging this team down.

Both goalies have a well below league average even strength (EV) SV%. I'm not sure Luongo's ever had this low EV SV%. Cory hasn't since he's became a backup. This team is not getting the goaltending it needs to win games, plain and simple. This team has better EV underlying #'s that it's ever had, and they can't get a save. Yes, they aren't scoring as many goals - but that's to be expected IMO due to playing solely in the West. Conference this yr.

One has to hope that, due to small sample sizes, the goalies are going through a funk and will get back to normal soon. Unfortunately, they only have 23 more games to regain 'normal', if not - this team isn't going far in the playoffs with these guys as they're performing now.
Luongo and this team always start a season looking like ****, the fact that early on Luongo was playing lights out was shocking and its pretty much the only reason we aren't fighting to get into a playoff spot and are just trying to hold onto one.

Luongo is a work horse and needs a bunch of games to work out the bugs but in this shortened season which is being split evenly amongst our goalies isn't allowing him to do that, who knows maybe Cory needs the same type of work load to get the kinks out but the team in front isn't playing anywhere near where they need to be and that's a problem, prior to this season I didn't hate AV but I feel it growing.

I don't think Kesler alone can save this team, its starting to feel like we need an enema but this is a wacky season and I'm willing to take this year on the chin.

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Old
03-17-2013, 09:01 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Godless Servant View Post
Luongo and this team always start a season looking like ****, the fact that early on Luongo was playing lights out was shocking and its pretty much the only reason we aren't fighting to get into a playoff spot and are just trying to hold onto one.

Luongo is a work horse and needs a bunch of games to work out the bugs but in this shortened season which is being split evenly amongst our goalies isn't allowing him to do that, who knows maybe Cory needs the same type of work load to get the kinks out but the team in front isn't playing anywhere near where they need to be and that's a problem, prior to this season I didn't hate AV but I feel it growing.

I don't think Kesler alone can save this team, its starting to feel like we need an enema but this is a wacky season and I'm willing to take this year on the chin.
I was talking 'both' goalies. They both stink right now. They both stole games at the begging of the season - when I think the team was playing like poo. Since then, the teams playing better and the goalies are playing like poo. Maybe they need more games? I really don't care, everyone only gets 48 games this season. They need to buckle up and play better. No excuses anymore. I've seen every excuse in the book. Historically both these goalies have been wayyyyyyyy better than they're performing now. They need to step up to their own standards.

Playing an entire season without your selke winning centre means you're going to struggle, IMO. How would Hawks look without Toews all year? Detroit with Datsyuk? No team can sustain that. But...... Canucks have managed better than most. As I said, they're the 2nd best puck possession team in the league - they've done it without 2 of their best puck possession players playing minimal games (Booth/Kesler). In the long run I have faith this team will be better. Until then their goalies need to wake up.

OMG your enema comment almost made me choke on my dinner, lol. It's seriously been the most wacky season I can ever remember. The weirdest things are happening, no team can hold a lead, the best goalies can't stop a puck and freekin' goalies like Bobrovsky are stealing games. Like, caman. It's the twilight zone.

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03-17-2013, 09:04 PM
  #57
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You don't seem to have a problem breaking down all of Schneider's faults and blaming losses on him. At least man up and admit he was bad last night.
He already did.

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I guess the Preds should look at moving Rinne because he had back to back meltdowns, right? Point is every goalie has bad games, including both of ours.

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Old
03-17-2013, 09:16 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by SunshineRays View Post
I was talking 'both' goalies. They both stink right now. They both stole games at the begging of the season - when I think the team was playing like poo. Since then, the teams playing better and the goalies are playing like poo. Maybe they need more games? I really don't care, everyone only gets 48 games this season. They need to buckle up and play better. No excuses anymore. I've seen every excuse in the book. Historically both these goalies have been wayyyyyyyy better than they're performing now. They need to step up to their own standards.

Playing an entire season without your selke winning centre means you're going to struggle, IMO. How would Hawks look without Toews all year? Detroit with Datsyuk? No team can sustain that. But...... Canucks have managed better than most. As I said, they're the 2nd best puck possession team in the league - they've done it without 2 of their best puck possession players playing minimal games (Booth/Kesler). In the long run I have faith this team will be better. Until then their goalies need to wake up.

OMG your enema comment almost made me choke on my dinner, lol. It's seriously been the most wacky season I can ever remember. The weirdest things are happening, no team can hold a lead, the best goalies can't stop a puck and freekin' goalies like Bobrovsky are stealing games. Like, caman. It's the twilight zone.
I've felt we needed a bit of a change since we lost in the finals, I wasn't confidant in last years playoffs and I don't think we win the cup even with booth and kesler.

I know you were talking about both goalies but I spoke mostly on Luongo because this is his thread.

We need to trade a goalie and we need to get a legit winger for him, not a rental and not someone nearing the end of their career.

Legit winger + and I'm happy

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Old
03-17-2013, 09:27 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Godless Servant View Post
I've felt we needed a bit of a change since we lost in the finals, I wasn't confidant in last years playoffs and I don't think we win the cup even with booth and kesler.

I know you were talking about both goalies but I spoke mostly on Luongo because this is his thread.

We need to trade a goalie and we need to get a legit winger for him, not a rental and not someone nearing the end of their career.

Legit winger + and I'm happy

Ya I agree about needing a change after a loss in the finals. It was confirmed after they played Boston in Jan last yr. The team cratered. They sunk into the black abyss, their underlying numbers fell through the floor and the team looked like a completely different one. To me that meant they needed a change. I thought we'd see it last summer - but it never happened. They've still got most the guys who went to the SCF, and they just look fragile. Esp right now.

I'm not sure what the answer is, but it starts with the goaltending.

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03-17-2013, 09:33 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by SunshineRays View Post
Ya I agree about needing a change after a loss in the finals. It was confirmed after they played Boston in Jan last yr. The team cratered. They sunk into the black abyss, their underlying numbers fell through the floor and the team looked like a completely different one. To me that meant they needed a change. I thought we'd see it last summer - but it never happened. They've still got most the guys who went to the SCF, and they just look fragile. Esp right now.

I'm not sure what the answer is, but it starts with the goaltending.
I think GMMG giving out an NTC is a problem, I'm not saying we need to trade anyone that has one, I'm saying I'd rather they not have that security blanket as it makes them a little more accountable given that a trade could happen if they aren't fixing their problems,but I guess getting a discount warrants an NTC, I'm very glad Edler didn't get one.

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03-17-2013, 09:40 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Godless Servant View Post
I think GMMG giving out an NTC is a problem, I'm not saying we need to trade anyone that has one, I'm saying I'd rather they not have that security blanket as it makes them a little more accountable given that a trade could happen if they aren't fixing their problems,but I guess getting a discount warrants an NTC, I'm very glad Edler didn't get one.
He did get one, it kicks in July 1.

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03-17-2013, 09:41 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Godless Servant View Post
I think GMMG giving out an NTC is a problem, I'm not saying we need to trade anyone that has one, I'm saying I'd rather they not have that security blanket as it makes them a little more accountable given that a trade could happen if they aren't fixing their problems,but I guess getting a discount warrants an NTC, I'm very glad Edler didn't get one.
According to CapGeek, Edler got a NTC in his new contract. Or do you mean now?

This team def has a lot of NTC. It's crazy how a team like LA has none.

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03-17-2013, 09:43 PM
  #63
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He did get one, it kicks in July 1.
of course he did holy ****

Again, not saying we should trade any of them but wow, them having the thought that it could happen might put a little more hustle in their stride.

come sign in Vancouver for less than market value and have job security for the rest of your contract, its a lovely idea and at first I thought it was a good thing but idk, I'm on the fence until halfway through next season.

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03-17-2013, 09:45 PM
  #64
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NTCs aren't that big of a deal. They're not always full NTCs.

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03-17-2013, 09:47 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by SunshineRays View Post
According to CapGeek, Edler got a NTC in his new contract. Or do you mean now?

This team def has a lot of NTC. It's crazy how a team like LA has none.
Doughty I believe has an NTC for his UFA years, you can't give them during RFA years (Kesler). That's how Holmgren traded Richards and Carter, he moved them in their last RFA year on the deal before their NTCs kicked in, which then voided the future NTC.

Ballard used to have one as well and it was void when he was traded here.

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03-17-2013, 09:49 PM
  #66
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NTCs aren't that big of a deal. They're not always full NTCs.
I think they are when they given out like candy.

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03-17-2013, 09:53 PM
  #67
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Doughty I believe has an NTC for his UFA years, you can't give them during RFA years (Kesler). That's how Holmgren traded Richards and Carter, he moved them in their last RFA year on the deal before their NTCs kicked in, which then voided the future NTC.

Ballard used to have one as well and it was void when he was traded here.
According to capgeek, neither Doughty or Quick have NTC in their new contracts. I always hear broadcasters talking about how LA doesn't have any NTC on their team. That's pretty crazy they've managed to build such a good team without them.

Does Luongos NTC dissipate after he's been traded? Anyone know

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03-17-2013, 10:43 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by SunshineRays View Post
According to capgeek, neither Doughty or Quick have NTC in their new contracts. I always hear broadcasters talking about how LA doesn't have any NTC on their team. That's pretty crazy they've managed to build such a good team without them.
Not that surprising considering the roster, only Quick/Mitchell/Scuderi stand out as a NTC type guys, and they weren't that strong in their bargaining positions.

Richards and Carter - traded

Kopitar, Doughty, Green & Brown were too young.

Quick might have been happy just to get the deal done before the new CBA screwed things up and while his bargaining power for $ was highest. Lucky he did.

Penner was hardly in a position to bargain, took a 1 year deal.

That leaves Mitchell (just got a 35+ deal but only 2 years) and Scuderi (nice player, probably not NTC type).

Quote:
Does Luongos NTC dissipate after he's been traded? Anyone know
Yes, unless the other team agrees to maintain it.


Last edited by me2: 03-17-2013 at 10:55 PM.
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Old
03-18-2013, 02:32 PM
  #69
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Maybe that's because defensively this team is garbage, and offensively this team isn't good enough to get it done, so there's too much pressure on both goaltenders to have to bail our ***** out night after night and finally it's all come crashing down?
What a terrible excuse. Since you're such a Luongo fan you must remember how awesome he was in Florida behind a team far, far worse than this one. He's had over a decade of experience, he gets paid a $5.3M cap hit, he's won a gold medal and made it to game 7 of the cup finals and you're making the excuse that he feels too much pressure to perform well? What a pile of rubbish.

I'm not excusing Schneider either, by the way. This whole team needs to be better, both goalies very much included. The only players meeting expectations right now are Henrik Sedin (Daniel is doing ok but needs more goals), Hansen (exceeding), Higgins (kind of), Garrison and Tanev.

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03-18-2013, 05:16 PM
  #70
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Oiler fan here. Does the team have a goalie that they seem more comfortable with? Not sure if the players are liking one more than the other. There seems to be zero chatter in the rumour mill. Any sense, locally, if any kind of trade is in the works or do the Nucks roll with two into the playoffs?

Thanks.

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03-18-2013, 06:09 PM
  #71
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Oiler fan here. Does the team have a goalie that they seem more comfortable with? Not sure if the players are liking one more than the other. There seems to be zero chatter in the rumour mill. Any sense, locally, if any kind of trade is in the works or do the Nucks roll with two into the playoffs?

Thanks.
Based on the way our team has played I'd say they hate both goalies.

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03-18-2013, 06:15 PM
  #72
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Based on the way our team has played I'd say they hate both goalies.

Nice.

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03-18-2013, 07:08 PM
  #73
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I love it that people cant blame Luongo when this team sucks,because Schneiders play has been worse. Its nice and peaceful not having to listen to these folks 24/7 go off on Luongo for this whole teams incompetence.

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03-18-2013, 07:10 PM
  #74
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Oiler fan here. Does the team have a goalie that they seem more comfortable with? Not sure if the players are liking one more than the other. There seems to be zero chatter in the rumour mill. Any sense, locally, if any kind of trade is in the works or do the Nucks roll with two into the playoffs?

Thanks.
They are sitting Schnieder and Ballard.

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03-18-2013, 07:15 PM
  #75
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They are sitting Schnieder and Ballard.
I heard Ballard was playing with Tanev tonight.

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