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Jets - General Rumour, Trade, Free Agent and Waiver Speculation (12-13 Part XII)

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Old
03-17-2013, 10:57 AM
  #251
almostawake
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Originally Posted by Gil Fisher View Post
I was thinking about Iginla too. I think Flames likely want too much for him. But i bet they'd overvalue Adam Lowry. I'm assuming Iggy's an expiring contract.

I wonder if Lowry, Postma and a 2nd would be enough for Calgary. Not sure I want to pass on Lowry's potential though.
Iginla has full NMC. If he leaves Calgary it is because he asked to be traded and he will be going to a legit contender. Also, the offer you posted is far below Calgary's asking price unless Iginla forced their hand.

There are several contenders that would offer their 1st and a better prospect than Lowry for Iginla.

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03-17-2013, 10:58 AM
  #252
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Originally Posted by ps241 View Post
100% agree

UFA Asset maximization right now real time for this organization is using them to help us become a playoff team!

Playoffs and what we learn from it > picks we would get in the future at this point in time IMO
Agreed. We also have 3 prospects in Sceifele, Trouba and Lowry that don't look to be that far off. This team needs to start experiencing the playoffs. We already have a team full of high draft picks let's start winning.

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03-17-2013, 11:39 AM
  #253
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Originally Posted by garret9 View Post
Imagine if we tried throwing in a couple thou to out bid WSH for Fehr

Ladd-Little-Wheeler
Kane-Joki-Fehr
Burmi-Antro-Welly/Mittens
Wright-Slater-Peluso
Welly/Mittens

Twas a pretty obvious money puck move.

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Old
03-17-2013, 12:30 PM
  #254
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I thought a lot more about this last night and I'm still going to stand alone in my opinion that this team is not yet at a point where they can afford to let top 4 and top 9 talent walk as free agents. I understand and agree that winning breeds winning but not nearly to the degree that most of you seem to be suggesting. There are many examples of teams that make the playoffs one year and then regress the following year.

In my opinion, for this team to be a perennial contender for many many years, we need more depth throughout the entire organization. I have this stupid visualization of a team needing to be built like a pyramid. If it doesn't have a strong base, what you are seeing is a mirage or is not sustainable.

We are extremely weak in depth at the NHL level; our farm team might not even have one single player currently capable of filling in at the NHL level; and except for 2 or 3 high end prospects, our prospect pool is more like a wading pool.

I want playoffs this year as bad as anyone, but it's more important to me to continue to be a playoff team once we become one. I'm not saying that we need to sell everyone, but I am saying that Chevy needs to make intelligent moves that sustain and build our overall organizational depth, not erode it in the name of winning this year. I guess it all boils down to this: most of you think we're at the point where we need to start winning now to take the next step. I think there's more work to be done first. I do agree that, at some point soon, we will get to that point, but only if Chevy is smart about it.

Again, just my opinion. No need to respond to tell me I'm wrong. I get it.

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Old
03-17-2013, 12:31 PM
  #255
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I wonder if NJ would give us Poni back

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Old
03-17-2013, 12:33 PM
  #256
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I agree with the General consensus that we should hold onto our UFA's unless its a trade that benefits the team immediately. The organization has acquired enough high picks for this draft where I am open to moving one of our 2nd's and a b level prospect like Postma for RW scoring help. The only condition that I would have is that the player acquired would be signed through at least next year.

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Old
03-17-2013, 12:39 PM
  #257
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Stej I have no problem with your opinion. We're not going for broke any time soon, even if we are a contender in the future. It just isn't happening.

Chevy is looking for a scoring RW, but he would never move young core pieces for that player. He's just taking a slow steady approach. I don't expect that to change because some posters here want it to change.

That being said with regards to Hainsey and Antropov, I fully believe if they don't re-sign before the deadline or at least make it clear they want to, that they will be traded. The rest of the UFAs are inconsequential, their value at the deadline is minimal, and we can afford to lose one or two of them at free agency.

The worst thing that can happen is we're a bubble team around the deadline. Either solidify 3rd in the SE, or tank. That makes Chevys job easier.

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Old
03-17-2013, 12:47 PM
  #258
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingBogo View Post
Agreed. We also have 3 prospects in Sceifele, Trouba and Lowry that don't look to be that far off. This team needs to start experiencing the playoffs. We already have a team full of high draft picks let's start winning.
Agree.

Though, there are lots of assumptions going on with this thread.

a) Hainsey will want to test FA and not re-sign - thinking that's speculation, no?

b) Jets will get a good return for Hainsey - we really don't know who is interested in Hainsey and what they would offer to get him, do we?

c) Jets need Hainsey to get into the playoffs - when Toby is back, LHD available will be Enstrom, Clitsome, Stuart, Meech and likely Kulda. I'm not sure he's the difference from making the playoffs or not making them. I think they have 'coverage' to still get in, imo.

d) Jets need Hainsey to get further in the playoffs - that may be the biggest reason to keep Hainsey. He plays 20+ mins, pk, and is a veteran pressence. He has zero NHL playoff experience himself, but plays a style that would be of benefit in the playoffs, imo. If players get moved, there needs to be suitable replacements for them. Playoff experience is crutial for young players like Bogo, Kane, Little, Pavs, etc.

e) Picks 20+ have a very low chance of amounting to anything - that's very true, but i believe the Jets will nurture those picks as much as they can and let them develop. To me, the #22 pick this year might be the same as a #15-#17 in other years due to depth. Regardless, that player is many years away from contributing in NHL.


IMO, the line-up needs a tweak or two, before they would be a serious playoff contender. I'm also not convinced Hainsey is irreplaceable. When i see a goal like Kessel's last night, I'm reminded that Hainsey gets caught flat footed and can't recover, as much as the next guy, and i'm not sure his 'positives' out number what Clitsome has been bringing.

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Old
03-17-2013, 12:47 PM
  #259
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Originally Posted by allan5oh View Post
It's obvious we need a scoring RW, as Chevy said on tsn1290. Who do you think we should target?

Jarome Iginla
Corey Perry

Are both obviously at the top of the list, but would command too much.

I'm thinking more along the lines of:

Drew Stafford
Chris Stewart (good trading partner but would command a lot)
Eric Fehr (yes really)
David Jones

All have decent size and could be possibly acquired cheaply except Stewart.
Been saying it for almost two years now. CHRIS. STEWART.

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03-17-2013, 01:04 PM
  #260
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Originally Posted by drumzan View Post
Been saying it for almost two years now. CHRIS. STEWART.
Not interested. I really think we would be better off with Stafford then Stewart. He's having a good year due to a high shooting percentage and would expect him to be closer to what he was last year.

For the amount that it would cost to acquire him...it would be ridiculous, btw....it would be not worth it. I wouldn't pay much more than AK fetched at the deadline.

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Old
03-17-2013, 01:15 PM
  #261
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stej View Post
I thought a lot more about this last night and I'm still going to stand alone in my opinion that this team is not yet at a point where they can afford to let top 4 and top 9 talent walk as free agents. I understand and agree that winning breeds winning but not nearly to the degree that most of you seem to be suggesting. There are many examples of teams that make the playoffs one year and then regress the following year.

In my opinion, for this team to be a perennial contender for many many years, we need more depth throughout the entire organization. I have this stupid visualization of a team needing to be built like a pyramid. If it doesn't have a strong base, what you are seeing is a mirage or is not sustainable.

We are extremely weak in depth at the NHL level; our farm team might not even have one single player currently capable of filling in at the NHL level; and except for 2 or 3 high end prospects, our prospect pool is more like a wading pool.

I want playoffs this year as bad as anyone, but it's more important to me to continue to be a playoff team once we become one. I'm not saying that we need to sell everyone, but I am saying that Chevy needs to make intelligent moves that sustain and build our overall organizational depth, not erode it in the name of winning this year. I guess it all boils down to this: most of you think we're at the point where we need to start winning now to take the next step. I think there's more work to be done first. I do agree that, at some point soon, we will get to that point, but only if Chevy is smart about it.

Again, just my opinion. No need to respond to tell me I'm wrong. I get it.
I'm with you on this.

The team's depth is way too shallow to start letting assets walk. I think Hainsey's play is getting over rated around here, on most team's the guy would be a bottom 6 pairing. A healthy Enstrom makes him expendable.

Chevy needs to be a buyer/seller this deadline. He needs to pick up a player we can move forward with, and get what we can from players who's value's are gonna be at a high.

While I would like a deal that get's a roster player or up and comer (kinda like Wheeler in the Peverley trade) back, draft picks shouldn't be knocked. There have been a lot of player's picked second round or late first that would be a huge upgrade over some of our players.
Plus St Johns needs some new players, anyone see how poor they're doing? This is a deep draft, nothing helps depth like a deep draft does. Also with teams needing to unload some cap space before next season, we're in the perfect position to take advantage of that and move some assets before we lose them.

Everyone has their own opinion around here, and it's just that, an opinion. There's no right or wrong. I'm just happy I'm not in Chevy's shoes right about now, there's gonna be some tough decisions made.

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Old
03-17-2013, 01:31 PM
  #262
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Why pay high on Stewart when you can pay low on Stafford?

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03-17-2013, 01:39 PM
  #263
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Originally Posted by Sweech View Post
Why pay high on Stewart when you can pay low on Stafford?
Exactly.

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Old
03-17-2013, 01:39 PM
  #264
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I'm going to have to ask a few of you to please stop including Lowry in your trade proposals to other teams, even if it is done only on our boards, or done in jest.



I said please, now stop it.
am kidding, sort of

I want him with the Jets.


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Old
03-17-2013, 02:17 PM
  #265
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Originally Posted by Gump Hasek View Post
I'm going to have to ask a few of you to please stop including Lowry in your trade proposals to other teams, even if it is done only on our boards, or done in jest.



I said please, now stop it.
am kidding, sort of

I want him with the Jets.

I agree. Lowry was made to be a Jet.

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Old
03-17-2013, 02:18 PM
  #266
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I like what Stej is selling.

Lets not (literally) pull a Calgary and overrate where we are as an organization.

Hainsey is a solid fourth defenseman but he's going to be a declining asset sooner or later. Clitsome hasn't been great, but he does seen to be improving. And Kulda will be around for depth.

It's not ideal to move a proven player during a playoff run, but we're talking about 10 regular season games and a playoff series or two. Versus a 2nd or 3rd rounder that gives us flexibility to move up on draft day. Or to take a chance on a higher risk skill player we otherwise couldn't.

I'm not crying either way though, I just hope we keep playing well.

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Old
03-17-2013, 04:08 PM
  #267
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This is the last time I will chime in here, because I think I've made my point already, but I don't get people who would give up a guy who is a top 6 (top 4) guy at the trade deadline if we are going to make the playoffs, especially if we are only going to get a second and a third. Who are these guys?

31 Jacob Markstrom (goaltender)
32 Vyacheslav Voynov
33 Philip McRae (centre)
34 Jake Allen (goaltender)
35 Nicolas Deschamps (centre)
36 Corey Trivino (centre)
37 Cody Goloubef (defence)
38 Roman Josi (defence)
39 Eric O'Dell (centre)
40 Aaron Ness (defence)
41 Yann Sauve (defence)
42 Patrick Wiercioch (defence)
43 Justin Schultz (defence)
44 Luke Adam (centre)
45 Zac Dalpe (C/RW) Canada
46 Colby Robak (defence)
47 Maxime Sauve (centre)
48 Mitch Wahl (centre)
49 Jared Staal (right wing)
50 Cameron Gaunce (defence)
51 Derek Stepan (centre)
52 Brandon Burlon (defence)
53 Travis Hamonic (defence)
54 Patrice Cormier (centre)
55 Marco Scandella (defence)
56 Danny Kristo (right wing)
57 Eric Mestery (defence)
58 Dmitri Kugryshev
59 Tyler Beskorowany (goaltender)
60 Jimmy Hayes (right wing)T
61 Peter Delmas (goaltender)

Those are the guys picked in the 2nd round in 2009. How many of them are in the NHL? How many of them are capable of being a top player (even briefly) right now for an NHL club? Sure, there are a couple of gems there but there are a hell of a lot more busts (to this point)

The second round is a total crap shoot and you are considering giving up a big piece of our defense and moreso defensive DEPTH (which anyone will tell you is CRITICAL in the playoffs) for one of these players?

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03-17-2013, 04:35 PM
  #268
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Originally Posted by Brogosian View Post
This is the last time I will chime in here, because I think I've made my point already, but I don't get people who would give up a guy who is a top 6 (top 4) guy at the trade deadline if we are going to make the playoffs, especially if we are only going to get a second and a third. Who are these guys?

31 Jacob Markstrom (goaltender)
32 Vyacheslav Voynov
33 Philip McRae (centre)
34 Jake Allen (goaltender)
35 Nicolas Deschamps (centre)
36 Corey Trivino (centre)
37 Cody Goloubef (defence)
38 Roman Josi (defence)
39 Eric O'Dell (centre)
40 Aaron Ness (defence)
41 Yann Sauve (defence)
42 Patrick Wiercioch (defence)
43 Justin Schultz (defence)
44 Luke Adam (centre)
45 Zac Dalpe (C/RW) Canada
46 Colby Robak (defence)
47 Maxime Sauve (centre)
48 Mitch Wahl (centre)
49 Jared Staal (right wing)
50 Cameron Gaunce (defence)
51 Derek Stepan (centre)
52 Brandon Burlon (defence)
53 Travis Hamonic (defence)
54 Patrice Cormier (centre)
55 Marco Scandella (defence)
56 Danny Kristo (right wing)
57 Eric Mestery (defence)
58 Dmitri Kugryshev
59 Tyler Beskorowany (goaltender)
60 Jimmy Hayes (right wing)T
61 Peter Delmas (goaltender)

Those are the guys picked in the 2nd round in 2009. How many of them are in the NHL? How many of them are capable of being a top player (even briefly) right now for an NHL club? Sure, there are a couple of gems there but there are a hell of a lot more busts (to this point)

The second round is a total crap shoot and you are considering giving up a big piece of our defense and moreso defensive DEPTH (which anyone will tell you is CRITICAL in the playoffs) for one of these players?
Right there with you Jet.

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Old
03-17-2013, 06:15 PM
  #269
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Originally Posted by Brogosian View Post
This is the last time I will chime in here, because I think I've made my point already, but I don't get people who would give up a guy who is a top 6 (top 4) guy at the trade deadline if we are going to make the playoffs, especially if we are only going to get a second and a third. Who are these guys?

...
The 2nd round of the 2003 draft (which this one is being compared to) saw the following players drafted: Loui Eriksson, Patrice Bergeron, Matt Carle, Shea Weber, Corey Crawford, Patrick O'Sullivan, David Backes, and Jimmy Howard.

So we're talking about a little better than a 1 in 4 chance of landing a player like that in exchange for 10 games of a marginal player that is not willing to re-sign. That also says nothing about the fact that a second round pick can be used as ammo to improve our roster in other areas.

A lot of this difference of opinion probably stems from our take on how much the players we are talking about moving actually impact the results of the team when compared to the players we would replace them with. I don't think any of the players we are talking about moving are difference makers at the margin. You must.

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03-17-2013, 07:36 PM
  #270
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Originally Posted by Stej View Post
I thought a lot more about this last night and I'm still going to stand alone in my opinion that this team is not yet at a point where they can afford to let top 4 and top 9 talent walk as free agents. I understand and agree that winning breeds winning but not nearly to the degree that most of you seem to be suggesting. There are many examples of teams that make the playoffs one year and then regress the following year.

In my opinion, for this team to be a perennial contender for many many years, we need more depth throughout the entire organization. I have this stupid visualization of a team needing to be built like a pyramid. If it doesn't have a strong base, what you are seeing is a mirage or is not sustainable.

We are extremely weak in depth at the NHL level; our farm team might not even have one single player currently capable of filling in at the NHL level; and except for 2 or 3 high end prospects, our prospect pool is more like a wading pool.

I want playoffs this year as bad as anyone, but it's more important to me to continue to be a playoff team once we become one. I'm not saying that we need to sell everyone, but I am saying that Chevy needs to make intelligent moves that sustain and build our overall organizational depth, not erode it in the name of winning this year. I guess it all boils down to this: most of you think we're at the point where we need to start winning now to take the next step. I think there's more work to be done first. I do agree that, at some point soon, we will get to that point, but only if Chevy is smart about it.

Again, just my opinion. No need to respond to tell me I'm wrong. I get it.
You are not wrong this is a matter of opinion and you are totally entitled to yours.

My concern is as fast as the Jets can add picks and prospects from selling at the deadline when we are a playoff team you will just as quickly be losing all the UFA's and your RFA's will start wanting out as soon as possible. Boston, Detroit, New Jersey etc etc have all been able to live as annual playoff teams for long stretches (minus a year here or there) and always see to be able to retool along the way. I don't like the idea of burning assets but we need to find a balance and this year is not the year to be selling.

I don't see us as having that big a talent gap .....IMHO we mostly lack experience and winning culture.

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03-17-2013, 08:08 PM
  #271
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I would like for us to resign Hainsey so that we can have Buff, Enstrom, Bogo, Hainsey, Stuart and Clitty/whoever. I also think Antro could be good for one more season. The only problem is, that these guys may get better offers elsewhere. I also know (from a real source, don't ask but it's legit) that Hainsey's ol' lady left town early last year back to the US as she did not want to hang around the Peg all year so that may play as a factor. Hope we keep Hainsey but we shall see he may bolt and I see him fitting in well somewhere like Philly or Pitts.

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03-17-2013, 08:15 PM
  #272
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Originally Posted by Stej View Post
The 2nd round of the 2003 draft (which this one is being compared to) saw the following players drafted: Loui Eriksson, Patrice Bergeron, Matt Carle, Shea Weber, Corey Crawford, Patrick O'Sullivan, David Backes, and Jimmy Howard.

So we're talking about a little better than a 1 in 4 chance of landing a player like that in exchange for 10 games of a marginal player that is not willing to re-sign. That also says nothing about the fact that a second round pick can be used as ammo to improve our roster in other areas.

A lot of this difference of opinion probably stems from our take on how much the players we are talking about moving actually impact the results of the team when compared to the players we would replace them with. I don't think any of the players we are talking about moving are difference makers at the margin. You must.
But if you are Wheeler, Ladd, Little, Bogosian tell me honestly how you would feel if Chevy dumps Hainsey and Antro for draft picks at the deadline while we are in the fight of our lives to make the playoffs? This doesn't happen in vaccume and every day we are selling TNSE as a place to play.

I am not advocating getting nothing back for Ryan Suter level ride it off the cliff stuff, but if we are a net seller at the deadline this year (meaning after all moves are done) I would be really disapointed.

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03-17-2013, 11:04 PM
  #273
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Originally Posted by Gump Hasek View Post
I'm going to have to ask a few of you to please stop including Lowry in your trade proposals to other teams, even if it is done only on our boards, or done in jest.



I said please, now stop it.
am kidding, sort of

I want him with the Jets.

Only if you do the same for Burmi.

Seriously though, I am not for the Jets trading away any talented young pieces.

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03-17-2013, 11:10 PM
  #274
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Only if you do the same for Burmi.

Seriously though, I am not for the Jets trading away any talented young pieces.
There is a difference between trading junior aged prospects and RFA professionals that are in the coaches' doghouse. I also don't recall offering Burmistrov in any proposals but admittedly do approve of the Jets lineup as it is currently constructed. Burmistrov should have spent this season St. John's I believe.

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03-17-2013, 11:34 PM
  #275
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Originally Posted by Gump Hasek View Post
There is a difference between trading junior aged prospects and RFA professionals that are in the coaches' doghouse. I also don't recall offering Burmistrov in any proposals but admittedly do approve of the Jets lineup as it is currently constructed. Burmistrov should have spent this season St. John's I believe.
What's not to love about a team with a 4th line that can't handle any ice time and a 3rd line that is getting destroyed by the opposition.

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