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Cole's Plus/Minus: Pens vs. Bruins Round II - FIGHT

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Old
03-17-2013, 07:29 PM
  #126
Ogrezilla
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terrapin View Post
- Letang's injury. I will not get into a heated argument again about this like last night. All I'll say is this, Jags, a few others and I argued at length about this teams lack of response to cheap shots, questionable hits, etc, and how it may lead to future injuries to our stars. Not 14 hours later, Letang is injured by a cheap ass slash. Sid takes an elbow to the face off a faceoff. Neal gets punched by Lucic. Nothing. I'm not calling to have Big Mac flown in for the 2nd period of todays game. Not calling for someone to sucker punch Marchard. But at the very very least, the rest of todays game should have been very difficult on him. It wasn't. Nobody even breathed on him.

I agree, getting 2 pts against these guys was big. Engo couldn't have done much even if he wanted to since we were down to 5 D. But where was Glass, Cooke, Adams, etc? Not even one hit on that dude? Gimme a break.
Cheap ass slash? Please, that's ridiculous. He got tapped on the glove. It wasn't even a slash, it was barely a love tap. Letang was not injured because of the slash. I don't know how anyone can watch that play, hear Letang has a lower body injury and think the slash had anything to do with it. We didn't respond to it because he didn't do anything. Not even a hockey play gone wrong like Geno's injuries. Literally nothing.

Neal punched Lucic right back. I never saw or heard anything about Sid getting elbowed.

Based on our 2 games against the Bruins and the games against the Rangers and Leafs, I seem to have the opposite conclusion as you. We are better off staying out of their extra stuff. They will give us some love taps. We will skate away. If we get into it, they will have to show that they are tougher than us and escalate it. And they are better at that stuff than we are. We can out play these teams. No reason to make it a fight instead.

And I still don't think a single injury this season would have been helped by any amount of toughness in the line-up. Not a single injury has come from a play that would have gone differently if teams were more intimidated by us. None of them were dirty. None of them were egregious. None of them were anything but hockey plays.


Last edited by Ogrezilla: 03-17-2013 at 07:38 PM.
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Old
03-17-2013, 07:41 PM
  #127
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You gotta give DB allot of credit how he handled the goalies this weekend. I thought it should of been TV sat and MAF sun but it ended up working really well. If we play Boston in playoffs i love how we matchup against them. I don't think the series would go more then 5 games with a healthy pens team.

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03-17-2013, 07:42 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
Neal punched Lucic right back. I never saw or heard anything about Sid getting elbowed.
Yeah, he got elbowed or punched or something -- just a little lovetap, really -- by, I want to say Krejci, just after a faceoff.

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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
Based on our 2 games against the Bruins and the games against the Rangers and Leafs, I seem to have the opposite conclusion as you. We are better off staying out of their extra stuff. They will give us some love taps. We will skate away. If we get into it, they will have to show that they are tougher than us and escalate it. And they are better at that stuff than we are. We can out play these teams. No reason to make it a fight instead.
Agreed. Letang, Neal, and Geno in particular are hot-headed enough that they can be taken off their game by all the scrums after the whistle. If we can avoid that stuff, the team will definitely be better for it.

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Old
03-17-2013, 07:45 PM
  #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terrapin View Post

- Letang's injury. I will not get into a heated argument again about this like last night. All I'll say is this, Jags, a few others and I argued at length about this teams lack of response to cheap shots, questionable hits, etc, and how it may lead to future injuries to our stars. Not 14 hours later, Letang is injured by a cheap ass slash. Sid takes an elbow to the face off a faceoff. Neal gets punched by Lucic. Nothing. I'm not calling to have Big Mac flown in for the 2nd period of todays game. Not calling for someone to sucker punch Marchard. But at the very very least, the rest of todays game should have been very difficult on him. It wasn't. Nobody even breathed on him.

I agree, getting 2 pts against these guys was big. Engo couldn't have done much even if he wanted to since we were down to 5 D. But where was Glass, Cooke, Adams, etc? Not even one hit on that dude? Gimme a break.
Wow. We are are just grasping at straws on this argument, eh? Did you watch the game? We targeted Chara more than the B's even came close to targeting Crosby. Remember when you and Jags swore that the B's would cheap shot Crosby the entire night? Yeaaaaaaaaah. That never happened. It didn't even come close to happening.

With the limited news we have (locker room reports) it was said to be a nagging injury that has bothered Letang for a couple weeks. If it's a hamstring, groin, or something like that - then the "slash" did nothing to him. Right?

Gotta love it. We target Chara and you still believe we got targeted. Just hilarious.

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Old
03-17-2013, 07:45 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by Superstar Shane View Post
Yeah, he got elbowed or punched or something -- just a little lovetap, really -- by, I want to say Krejci, just after a faceoff.


Agreed. Letang, Neal, and Geno in particular are hot-headed enough that they can be taken off their game by all the scrums after the whistle. If we can avoid that stuff, the team will definitely be better for it.
yeah, Crosby got clipped by Krejci after a faceoff. i don't know if it was intentional but it wasn't very noticeable by many to suggest he did it on purpose.

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Old
03-17-2013, 07:48 PM
  #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Superstar Shane View Post
Yeah, he got elbowed or punched or something -- just a little lovetap, really -- by, I want to say Krejci, just after a faceoff.


Agreed. Letang, Neal, and Geno in particular are hot-headed enough that they can be taken off their game by all the scrums after the whistle. If we can avoid that stuff, the team will definitely be better for it.
That's exactly the sort of stuff that happens nearly every time we play Philly at CEC. Need to snap that stuff out as that's how they beat us by getting into our heads.

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03-17-2013, 08:00 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by ColePens View Post
Wow. We are are just grasping at straws on this argument, eh? Did you watch the game? We targeted Chara more than the B's even came close to targeting Crosby. Remember when you and Jags swore that the B's would cheap shot Crosby the entire night? Yeaaaaaaaaah. That never happened. It didn't even come close to happening.

With the limited news we have (locker room reports) it was said to be a nagging injury that has bothered Letang for a couple weeks. If it's a hamstring, groin, or something like that - then the "slash" did nothing to him. Right?

Gotta love it. We target Chara and you still believe we got targeted. Just hilarious.
Orpik even talked about it after the game he said Chara and Lucic like to hit people but when they get hit they usually don't respond well.

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03-17-2013, 08:05 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by cheesedanish87 View Post
Orpik even talked about it after the game he said Chara and Lucic like to hit people but when they get hit they usually don't respond well.
they've been hitting Chara for years. i think i really noticed that it was an integral part of their game-plan against him sometime early last year. as you said, they discovered he doesn't really respond well to being checked hard. Dupuis in particular seems to relish hitting Chara.

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Old
03-17-2013, 08:11 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by domaug View Post
yeah, Crosby got clipped by Krejci after a faceoff. i don't know if it was intentional but it wasn't very noticeable by many to suggest he did it on purpose.
i didn't think it looked intentional just more incidental off the FO

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03-17-2013, 08:16 PM
  #135
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I said I'm not going to argue about it, since disagreeing with select people on here seems to be frowned upon to say the least

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03-17-2013, 08:25 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by Crafton View Post
they've been hitting Chara for years. i think i really noticed that it was an integral part of their game-plan against him sometime early last year. as you said, they discovered he doesn't really respond well to being checked hard. Dupuis in particular seems to relish hitting Chara.
I thought of Dupuis hitting Chara and making him his puppet just sounds wrong.

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Old
03-17-2013, 08:27 PM
  #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shureshot66 View Post
+ Really have to give a hand to all five defensemen for stepping it up when Letang went out. Paul Martin right at the top of the list -- the guy is actually listed at 30:02 for the game. Incredible. And he was still making smart plays with the puck even in the dying minutes of the game.

- I know this isn't the first game this year that it's appeared, but get rid of the schmuck with the airhorn in the stands. This is not D.C., and we are not the Caps. Please and thank you.
Yes my lord. (Sets off with only a dull knife.)

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03-17-2013, 08:47 PM
  #138
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Originally Posted by Terrapin View Post
I said I'm not going to argue about it, since disagreeing with select people on here seems to be frowned upon to say the least
you have never once argued about it. You say your opinion, refuse to support it, and then say we hate toughness when we disagree. You refuse to have a discussion.

The select people you are referring to disagree with each other all the freaking time. And we argue about it. We discuss. We counter each others points. We don't just throw our hands in the air and call each other wrong.

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Yes my lord. (Sets off with only a dull knife.)
Dude, I wouldn't mess with Iceburgh.

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Old
03-17-2013, 09:38 PM
  #139
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
you have never once argued about it. You say your opinion, refuse to support it, and then say we hate toughness when we disagree. You refuse to have a discussion.

The select people you are referring to disagree with each other all the freaking time. And we argue about it. We discuss. We counter each others points. We don't just throw our hands in the air and call each other wrong.



Dude, I wouldn't mess with Iceburgh.
was looking in the other thread for the SD image, came here and was not disappointed

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03-17-2013, 09:55 PM
  #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
you have never once argued about it. You say your opinion, refuse to support it, and then say we hate toughness when we disagree. You refuse to have a discussion.

The select people you are referring to disagree with each other all the freaking time. And we argue about it. We discuss. We counter each others points. We don't just throw our hands in the air and call each other wrong.
To further on Ogre's post (from my perspective):

And a good debate is what this board is all about. I just want to see some supporting evidence. Today's game couldn't have done anything but shut you up, Terrapin. The PENS targeted Chara. I didn't see cheap shots at Sid at all that don't happen every game to any star across the league. In fact, Sid kind of gave Chara a cross check on the very first shift and is standing right by Andy Moog (I know I know... I had to) when the whistle blew and nobody touches him.

For whatever reason, Jags and Terrapin are believing we are being targeted when normal hockey stuff happens. Every game a star plays, he gets an extra whack or slash here and there. Every single team does it. Ask Wayne and Mario. Or.. just go watch ANY game from Lemieux. Even when we had Stevens and Tocchet he was still hacked and slashed left/right.

The conspiracy theory is over. The evidence does not back it up. There is no argument unless you try to present a realistic case.

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03-17-2013, 09:57 PM
  #141
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Originally Posted by ColePens View Post
To further on Ogre's post (from my perspective):

And a good debate is what this board is all about. I just want to see some supporting evidence. Today's game couldn't have done anything but shut you up, Terrapin. The PENS targeted Chara. I didn't see cheap shots at Sid at all that don't happen every game to any star across the league. In fact, Sid kind of gave Chara a cross check on the very first shift and is standing right by Andy Moog (I know I know... I had to) when the whistle blew and nobody touches him.

For whatever reason, Jags and Terrapin are believing we are being targeted when normal hockey stuff happens. Every game a star plays, he gets an extra whack or slash here and there. Every single team does it. Ask Wayne and Mario. Or.. just go watch ANY game from Lemieux. Even when we had Stevens and Tocchet he was still hacked and slashed left/right.

The conspiracy theory is over. The evidence does not back it up. There is no argument unless you try to present a realistic case.
Or anytime someone gets hurt, it's an intentional dirty play.

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Old
03-17-2013, 10:05 PM
  #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fordy View Post
Or anytime someone gets hurt, it's an intentional dirty play.
Yeah it's ridiculous. That play against Letang looks like something that happens every shift. If Crosby did that to Chara, we'd be sitting here saying that it wasn't cheap and it was a play that happens every shift.

But no... people have these ideas in their head that he was targeted...??!! We don't want to be hypocrites because the way it sounds, some people would flip **** over what Cooke did to EK. They would say he "targeted" him because they don't have enforcers. I mean how ridiculous does that sound?


Last edited by ColePens: 03-17-2013 at 10:13 PM.
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03-17-2013, 10:19 PM
  #143
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Have not read the thread, been out all day.

But I was going to post that the Pens have finally given me some reason to hope for the post season. Not the wins, but how they have been playing. Yeah there were times that Boston could and did camp in Pittsburgh's end of the ice. But overall the Pens have been playing much more solid defensively for the past ten games. The type of play you need to win in the playoffs.

I do wonder how much of that defense is because the Pens had a lead and the other team had to press and make mistakes, though the Pens have been down several of those games and come back. In the end I will give them and Bylsma credit for something I did not think either had in them. And it does give me some hope for the first time this year that this team might do something in the playoffs.

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03-17-2013, 10:21 PM
  #144
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What are your major issues at the deadline, JF? I gotta focus on these three:

1) Defensive zone system: still too many breakdowns and standing around.

2) Depth for the bottom six

3) One key contributor

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03-17-2013, 10:32 PM
  #145
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- Work days in China after your damn matinee games...
- Letang
- 2nd/3rd line C weirdness from Dan.
- No Despres.

+ Great determination win against our stiffest opposition in the East. And without Malkin, Letang for 40... and with our backup in the net.
+ Sid's line was great again.
+ Martin was sensational. Just fantastic in this game, and ORPIK was not far off. Neither was Niskanen for that matter, and both Eaton and Engelland had good games. If we are to find any faults defensively, it was with Letang who followed Marchand far away from the crease to cross check him for some slight, leaving coverage a mess and Seguin completely open.
+ Vokoun. Nice backup now that we play a bit of D, huh?
+ Joe Victory and Adams. Big goal and that line actually got some prolonged cycling shifts in! Glass still looked useless though.

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Old
03-17-2013, 10:46 PM
  #146
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What are your major issues at the deadline, JF? I gotta focus on these three:

1) Defensive zone system: still too many breakdowns and standing around.

2) Depth for the bottom six

3) One key contributor
Fix number one completely and I could live with the other two. I know we have an obscene amount of cap space to play with. I say that as a season ticket holder whose ticket prices went up significantly again this year. But just because you have cap space does not mean you need to spend it to spend it. The solutions to say a key contributor I would much rather see them spend their tradable assets on in the offseason when the solution will be more long term and the price more reasonable. Another bottom six grinder? Why not? Not sure it will be a difference maker though.

Show that they can consitently win games 2-1 as well as 6-5 when they play teams who take their game away from them and I do not need anything else.

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Old
03-17-2013, 11:26 PM
  #147
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+ We lead the entire league in ROW !

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Old
03-17-2013, 11:32 PM
  #148
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HUGE + to the first line in the firstt period. Best period I've seen them play all season long, and that should say something.

+ To the fourth line for having someone other than "Rocket" Craig Adams score finally... and a game winner to boot.

+ to our defense for holding together and keeping their composure in the 2nd and 3rd period. Defensive zone spacing was tight and it seems like they were taking the correct lines for the most part. That being said however:

- and i mean a BIG minus to Letang's injury. The guy is simply the best defensman in the league for starting the transition from offense to defense. The vast majority of the first period was spent in Boston's zone. Our other defensemen throw the puck along the boards blindly far to much, Boston holds the line and a cycle is started. Wash, rinse, repeat. That was a HUGE issue today and I don't see this team getting hemmed in our zone for long periods of time all that much.

Now with THAT being said:

BIG - to DB for scratching Despres yet again. He has been our 3rd best defensman on most nights and he provides the good outlet which our other defensmen lack severely. The kid doesn't need to keep getting his chain yanked. I don't care if he is a rookie or not, nor do I care about this rotating these guys simply for the sake of rotation!
That is absurd, assinine and illogical.

Its very rare that you'll catch me bashing DB and I'm a supporter of his, yet to NOT ice your best unit possible is a crime. Bench someone by merit. Not tenure. Bylsma needs to pull his head straight outta his ass on this issue as his favoritism hurts the orginization.

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Old
03-17-2013, 11:57 PM
  #149
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Orpik-Martin
Eaton-Niskanen
Despres-Engo

If Letang is out?

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Old
03-18-2013, 12:41 AM
  #150
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You gotta give DB allot of credit how he handled the goalies this weekend.
Really? we had back to back games. He let Fleury play one and Vokoun play one. What's the big deal?

Also considering Boston's offense did crap the game before and rangers are a divisional opponent, it was an easy call

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