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Old
03-17-2013, 03:06 PM
  #726
Tiranis
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Originally Posted by King of the ES View Post
It's not making stuff up, it's called making a rational assumption based on facts. Schneider was a 1st round pick in '04, Vancouver goes and acquires a guy that was thought-of as the best goalie in the league in '06. Think he's encouraged? Sometimes you don't need black-and-white statements to make assumptions. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

In June 2010, the plan very clearly was for Schneider to be Lou's backup, be "showcased", and subsequently moved. Mike Gillis would've been wise to have not deviated from that plan, but he did, he got greedy, kept both guys, decided to run with two "elite" goalies, and then...

...June of 2012, where certainly it's well-known to all that Luongo's on his way out, which led to Schneider signing the contract. Why not, right? He's now the #1 guy. Unfortunately, Mike Gillis has again misjudged the market for Luongo, and in fact there's no demand for the guy at all.
You still haven't addressed why he signed with the Canucks in the first place instead of pursuing the Justin Schultz route.

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03-17-2013, 03:09 PM
  #727
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Originally Posted by King of the ES View Post
The context of that comment was that the media were trying to pin some story/excuse to Cody not making the team, instead of just calling a spade a spade and saying that he wasn't good enough. Which is what AV effectively said - that he's been medically cleared to play, thus invalidating that excuse.

All AV can do is trust the medical staff when they say that he's been medically cleared to play, right? AV can't operate under the assumption that the medical staff misdiagnosed the injury.
The same medical staff that let Mason Raymond walk off of the ice with a broken back? Dr. AV and his medical staff all deserve to be fired.

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03-17-2013, 03:26 PM
  #728
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Originally Posted by King of the ES View Post
It's not making stuff up, it's called making a rational assumption based on facts. Schneider was a 1st round pick in '04, Vancouver goes and acquires a guy that was thought-of as the best goalie in the league in '06. Think he's encouraged? Sometimes you don't need black-and-white statements to make assumptions. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
He still didn't have to sign with the team and could've become a UFA. In fact his agent mentioned that they had a discussion about that exact option but they both agreed that he just had to put his head down and play as well as he can and the rest would take care of itself. If only every young player and agent could have that attitude.

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In June 2010, the plan very clearly was for Schneider to be Lou's backup, be "showcased", and subsequently moved. Mike Gillis would've been wise to have not deviated from that plan, but he did, he got greedy, kept both guys, decided to run with two "elite" goalies, and then...

...June of 2012, where certainly it's well-known to all that Luongo's on his way out, which led to Schneider signing the contract. Why not, right? He's now the #1 guy. Unfortunately, Mike Gillis has again misjudged the market for Luongo, and in fact there's no demand for the guy at all.
He still had tons of leverage that he never exerted if he in fact wanted out. You can choose to treat Schneider and his agent like idiots who weren't prepared for the various scenarios, but I'm quite sure they would've gone through all the possibilities before putting pen to paper. Had Schneider wanted to force the issue, he certainly had the leverage to do so. There's simply no evidence that support your contention that he "probably" wanted out.

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Old
03-17-2013, 07:41 PM
  #729
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Originally Posted by King of the ES View Post
Poor timing aside, it has been made pretty abundantly clear who the better hockey player is, if it wasn't already. Please don't say "we have to wait 5 years", because that is a total copout. Cody Hodgson is an NHL 1C. Zack Kassian is struggling to hold on to his spot on a team that needs help pretty desperately.
I guess Nazem Kadri is also a 1C.

And Craig Anderson is the best goalie in the league.

I would love to understand how you think Cody Hodgson would be putting up those number on our 3rd line (or even 2nd line) while being solid defensively.

Or understand how he would even want to be here doing that, since he requested a trade afterall.

Quote:
The funny irony is that Mike Gillis has made a bunch of pretty glaring errors during his tenure as GM, yet it's AV who is always criticized and blamed for any losses. AV's track record is nearly flawless.
Yeah.

0/34 on the PP is a management flaw. And AV is "flawless".

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Originally Posted by Carl Carlson View Post
I can't believe this thread is still so active.
I know, its kinda embarrassing that some people can't accept that he didn't want to be here, rather blame others for some kind of "fault".

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Old
03-17-2013, 07:44 PM
  #730
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You guys can keep bashing Hodgson and saying he wouldn't be doing anything for us but he'd be doing a hell of a lot more than Kassian is/has this year. We would be a better team with Hodgson on it, when Ebbett is the second line C and kassian is on the third line it should tell you what is more important.

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Old
03-17-2013, 07:47 PM
  #731
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Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
You still haven't addressed why he signed with the Canucks in the first place instead of pursuing the Justin Schultz route.
Could've been a million different reasons. I would guess that the Canucks were probably promising big AHL minutes, to work with him very closely, and an eventual trade. And then there's obviously a massive amount of risk associated with not signing a deal and continuing to play. If Schultz had have suffered a career-altering injury last year, he would've been out a substantial amount of money.

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03-17-2013, 07:49 PM
  #732
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He still had tons of leverage that he never exerted if he in fact wanted out. You can choose to treat Schneider and his agent like idiots who weren't prepared for the various scenarios, but I'm quite sure they would've gone through all the possibilities before putting pen to paper. Had Schneider wanted to force the issue, he certainly had the leverage to do so. There's simply no evidence that support your contention that he "probably" wanted out.
The "various scenarios" involved playing roughly 30% of cherry-picked games on a team that was expected to have a lot of regular season success. From Schneider's perspective, as a guy who wants a #1 spot, what's not attractive about that?

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03-17-2013, 07:51 PM
  #733
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Originally Posted by NugentHopkinsfan View Post
You guys can keep bashing Hodgson and saying he wouldn't be doing anything for us but he'd be doing a hell of a lot more than Kassian is/has this year. We would be a better team with Hodgson on it, when Ebbett is the second line C and kassian is on the third line it should tell you what is more important.
This team would be in good shape if we still had Hodgson and Grabner.. thanks a lot Gillis!

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Old
03-17-2013, 07:57 PM
  #734
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Originally Posted by Sergei Shirokov View Post
I guess Nazem Kadri is also a 1C.

And Craig Anderson is the best goalie in the league.

I would love to understand how you think Cody Hodgson would be putting up those number on our 3rd line (or even 2nd line) while being solid defensively.

Or understand how he would even want to be here doing that, since he requested a trade afterall.
You can deny 'til you die all you want, Cody Hodgson is an NHL 1C today and he's almost certainly only going to get better, better, and better. As for Kadri - sure, I think you can call him a 1C, if he in fact is Toronto's 1st line C. The guy's got 27 points in 29 games. I can only imagine the level of hype amongst Canuck fans if Jordan Schroeder had come in and put up similar numbers. If Zack Kassian had 27 points in 29 games, Canuck fans would not just be calling him a 1st line winger, they'd be beginning to plan his Ring of Honour ceremony.

And why exactly would Cody be on our 3rd line? Is he not as good as Chris Higgins, or Mason Raymond? Don't be stupid. He'd be our 2C, probably even with a healthy Kesler, who'd be moved to wing. If you think that the only reason Cody's putting up the numbers that he is is because he's a Sabre, and that he's getting opportunity that he otherwise would not on the Canucks because the Sabres and so horrible, you need to consult your local standings and realize that they're a whole 8 points below us.

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03-17-2013, 08:02 PM
  #735
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Neither Kadri or Hodgson are NHL #1C material, yet.

Both are strong offensively, but they lack the defensive sturdiness to play against the Crosbys, Thorntons, Stamkos, Girouxs of the NHL. Those are NHL #1C's, not guys like Kadri, Hodgson etc.

Here's my list of #1C's in the NHL:

Getzlaf
Bergeron
Staal
Datsyuk
Koivu
Giroux
Crosby
Thornton
Backstrom
Sedin
Kesler
Plekanec
Spezza
Henrique
Tavares
Stamkos
Lecalvier

I probably missed some, but that's the calibur that you need to be to be a definitive #1C in the NHL.

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Last edited by Royal Canuck: 03-17-2013 at 08:07 PM.
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Old
03-17-2013, 08:03 PM
  #736
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Hodgson with a nice slap shot goal off the rush just now. Number 11 this season.

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Old
03-17-2013, 08:04 PM
  #737
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Ahhh Hodgson doing what most players on our team can't do: put the puck in the net.

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Old
03-17-2013, 08:09 PM
  #738
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Hodgson would be leading the team in goals.

so would Grabner..

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Old
03-17-2013, 08:19 PM
  #739
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Originally Posted by King of the ES View Post
You can deny 'til you die all you want, Cody Hodgson is an NHL 1C today and he's almost certainly only going to get better, better, and better. As for Kadri - sure, I think you can call him a 1C, if he in fact is Toronto's 1st line C. The guy's got 27 points in 29 games. I can only imagine the level of hype amongst Canuck fans if Jordan Schroeder had come in and put up similar numbers. If Zack Kassian had 27 points in 29 games, Canuck fans would not just be calling him a 1st line winger, they'd be beginning to plan his Ring of Honour ceremony.

And why exactly would Cody be on our 3rd line? Is he not as good as Chris Higgins, or Mason Raymond? Don't be stupid. He'd be our 2C, probably even with a healthy Kesler, who'd be moved to wing. If you think that the only reason Cody's putting up the numbers that he is is because he's a Sabre, and that he's getting opportunity that he otherwise would not on the Canucks because the Sabres and so horrible, you need to consult your local standings and realize that they're a whole 8 points below us.
Way to nitpick half my post.

And the bolded part made me laugh. Cody would be stuck behind Kes and Henrik for along as they are in Vancouver.

Even if Cody somehow made it onto the 2nd line with AV behind the bench, it would be as a winger, he wouldn't push Kesler over, not with his defensive game in comparison to Keslers.

Because if you haven't noticed, Center is as much about defense as it is offense.

Kadri has played on Toronto's 3rd line with Leo Komarov and Clarke MacArthur and has been just as impressive offensively while being better defensively.

That to me is far more impressive than Cody, in other words Kadri is more impressive than Cody.

And we may have been able to get him last summer, that is far more of a fault of MG's (And I am just assuming he was on the table which he may not have been) Than trading away a player who didn't want to be here.

But yet we are here crying over that instead.

And Yes Cody is putting up this production while being a nightmare defensively because he is on the Sabres and playing with Vanek and Pominville.

You are kidding yourself if you think he would have similar numbers on our team in the role he would have been in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PoolChamp View Post
Hodgson would be leading the team in goals.

so would Grabner..
Cam Neely would be our all-time leadering goal scorer.

Shall we cry about stuff like this a little more?

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Old
03-17-2013, 08:26 PM
  #740
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Originally Posted by Sergei Shirokov View Post
Way to nitpick half my post.

And the bolded part made me laugh. Cody would be stuck behind Kes and Henrik for along as they are in Vancouver.

Even if Cody somehow made it onto the 2nd line with AV behind the bench, it would be as a winger, he wouldn't push Kesler over, not with his defensive game in comparison to Keslers.

Because if you haven't noticed, Center is as much about defense as it is offense.

Kadri has played on Toronto's 3rd line with Leo Komarov and Clarke MacArthur and has been just as impressive offensively while being better defensively.

That to me is far more impressive than Cody, in other words Kadri is more impressive than Cody.

And we may have been able to get him last summer, that is far more of a fault of MG's (And I am just assuming he was on the table which he may not have been) Than trading away a player who didn't want to be here.

But yet we are here crying over that instead.

And Yes Cody is putting up this production while being a nightmare defensively because he is on the Sabres and playing with Vanek and Pominville.

You are kidding yourself if you think he would have similar numbers on our team in the role he would have been in.



Cam Neely would be our all-time leadering goal scorer.

Shall we cry about stuff like this a little more?
You're right, it's not like we need Hodgson's offense. Going all out defense with no offense has surely worked for us very well in the playoffs. Even this year our offense is down significantly and our PP is non-existent, but we don't need the offense.

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Old
03-17-2013, 08:29 PM
  #741
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Hodgson loses a faceoff and Ovie scores off it. Then scores a goal in the first minute of the 2nd. Soft goal but its a goal.

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03-17-2013, 08:31 PM
  #742
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
You're right, it's not like we need Hodgson's offense. Going all out defense with no offense has surely worked for us very well in the playoffs. Even this year our offense is down significantly and our PP is non-existent, but we don't need the offense.
just imagine how bad it will be in the playoffs this year (if we make it) if the roster stays as is. we are talking 07 stars series bad.

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03-17-2013, 08:34 PM
  #743
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Why are so many of you obsessed with defensive hockey?!

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03-17-2013, 08:34 PM
  #744
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Originally Posted by PoolChamp View Post
just imagine how bad it will be in the playoffs this year (if we make it) if the roster stays as is. we are talking 07 stars series bad.
Except I don't know if you can count on the same kind of record setting goaltending performance we got in 2007...we'd likely get embarrassed again. But as long as we have Kassian floating around, showing up for a big hit once every three or four games or so I guess it's okay, right? Yikes.

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03-17-2013, 08:35 PM
  #745
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Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
Why are so many of you obsessed with defensive hockey?!
It's the only way some people can justify trading away a guy who's turned into an offensive star for a guy who's really done nothing since the trade.

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03-17-2013, 08:35 PM
  #746
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Originally Posted by King of the ES View Post
You can deny 'til you die all you want, Cody Hodgson is an NHL 1C today and he's almost certainly only going to get better, better, and better. As for Kadri - sure, I think you can call him a 1C, if he in fact is Toronto's 1st line C. The guy's got 27 points in 29 games. I can only imagine the level of hype amongst Canuck fans if Jordan Schroeder had come in and put up similar numbers. If Zack Kassian had 27 points in 29 games, Canuck fans would not just be calling him a 1st line winger, they'd be beginning to plan his Ring of Honour ceremony.

And why exactly would Cody be on our 3rd line? Is he not as good as Chris Higgins, or Mason Raymond? Don't be stupid. He'd be our 2C, probably even with a healthy Kesler, who'd be moved to wing. If you think that the only reason Cody's putting up the numbers that he is is because he's a Sabre, and that he's getting opportunity that he otherwise would not on the Canucks because the Sabres and so horrible, you need to consult your local standings and realize that they're a whole 8 points below us.
Kadri was also considered by some to on his way to being a bust prior to this season. One thing to consider when looking at players like Kassian - they can suddenly improve quite rapidly when they're young.

Hodgson would not be able to beat Kesler out for the #2 center spot. As I pointed out earlie, Hodgson would currently likely be a 55 point player on the 2nd line, which is about the same as Kesler's bad seasons currently, and he doesn't have Kesler's defensive abilities. Maybe Hodgson could have made it as a winger on the 2nd line.

8 points is a huge difference given that the Sabres have played one more game, and the season is only 1/3rd done (for a regular season). Over 82 games, the Canucks are on pace for 97 points vs. 70 points for the Sabres. That's 27 points, and you have to admit that is a massive difference.

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03-17-2013, 08:36 PM
  #747
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Why are so many of you obsessed with defensive hockey?!
Because it's how you win.

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03-17-2013, 08:37 PM
  #748
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Because it's how you win.
That's worked out REAL well for us...

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03-17-2013, 08:38 PM
  #749
Sergei Shirokov
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You're right, it's not like we need Hodgson's offense. Going all out defense with no offense has surely worked for us very well in the playoffs. Even this year our offense is down significantly and our PP is non-existent, but we don't need the offense.
No offense in the last few playoff years?

Our offense has been near the top of the league, they have just been shutdown and the team that plays better defensively wins.

Which is exactly why we needed to move towards bigger, more physical guys, and why I think there are some major advantages in having Garrison over Ehrhoff once the playoffs begin.

Yes our offense has been bad this year, but we have been missing Kesler who contributes alot of our offense and rounds out the team.

That's not an excuse as to why we generally suck, just why we haven't been as good offensively.

Although recently we have seemed to be able to score, it's just the defense and goaltending that has been letting us down.

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03-17-2013, 08:39 PM
  #750
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That's worked out REAL well for us...
Better than it has for Hodgson

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