HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Vancouver Canucks
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Hodgson Trade Discussion

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-17-2013, 07:40 PM
  #751
monster_bertuzzi
registered user
 
monster_bertuzzi's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 30,580
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
It's the only way some people can justify trading away a guy who's turned into an offensive star for a guy who's really done nothing since the trade.
Id rather just not lie to myself and admit we would want a do-over on that trade.

monster_bertuzzi is offline  
Old
03-17-2013, 07:40 PM
  #752
BoHorvatFan
Registered User
 
BoHorvatFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 9,098
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sergei Shirokov View Post
No offense in the last few playoff years?

Our offense has been near the top of the league, they have just been shutdown and the team that plays better defensively wins.

Which is exactly why we needed to move towards bigger, more physical guys, and why I think there are some major advantages in having Garrison over Ehrhoff once the playoffs begin.

Yes our offense has been bad this year, but we have been missing Kesler who contributes alot of our offense and rounds out the team.

That's not an excuse as to why we generally suck, just why we haven't been as good offensively.

Although recently we have seemed to be able to score, it's just the defense and goaltending that has been letting us down.
Our playoff scoring has been about as bad as any team, even with a cup run. That's what matters not the regular season scoring. A guy like Raymond has been a HORRIBLE playoff producer.

BoHorvatFan is offline  
Old
03-17-2013, 07:41 PM
  #753
opendoor
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 9,146
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
That's worked out REAL well for us...
Hodgson on the 1st line is working out REAL well for Buffalo. All the way to 29th place in the league.

Name the last cup winner to have a player who's as poor defensively as Hodgson as a top 6 center on their team.

opendoor is offline  
Old
03-17-2013, 07:42 PM
  #754
monster_bertuzzi
registered user
 
monster_bertuzzi's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 30,580
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
Because it's how you win.
Yeah, 2007 gave us a better shot at winning than 2010 or 2011 did...

monster_bertuzzi is offline  
Old
03-17-2013, 07:44 PM
  #755
Zarpan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 1,659
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
It's the only way some people can justify trading away a guy who's turned into an offensive star for a guy who's really done nothing since the trade.
Hodgson's a good player and better than Kassian right now, but to call him an offensive star is excessive.

He's basically an average top 6 forward right now. Puts up a good (but not great) amount of points with top linemates and icetime, and gives up a bunch of goals in return. His impact to the team as a top 6 forward is pretty neutral. His +/- is -1, the Buffalo Sabres have a -2 even strength goal differential. He's not hurting the Sabres when his contributions are balanced out, but neither is he a star for them. I'd certainly rather have him as the #2 center over Ebbett, but in terms of team impact, he's only a bit better than a healthy Raymond at this point.

Zarpan is offline  
Old
03-17-2013, 07:46 PM
  #756
opendoor
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 9,146
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
Yeah, 2007 gave us a better shot at winning than 2010 or 2011 did...
The Canucks weren't very good in 2010 regardless (Mitchell injured, Luongo playing like ass) and in 2011 they were far better defensively than they were in 2007.

Not sure why that '07 team gets so overrated defensively just because they couldn't score. They were only 5th in the league in GA/G and that was on the back of the #1 PK and all world performance from Luongo. They really weren't a great defensive team, especially compared to 2011.

opendoor is offline  
Old
03-17-2013, 07:46 PM
  #757
Sergei Shirokov
Registered User
 
Sergei Shirokov's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: British Columbia
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,220
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
Why are so many of you obsessed with defensive hockey?!
Because that is how the last 2 Stanley Cup winners have won. And it is just as important as offense if not more so.

Ever hear the adage:

"Offense wins games, Defense wins championships"

Quote:
Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
That's worked out REAL well for us...
LOL we haven't been a defensive team, we have relied on offense and that offense has been shutdown, leaving us inferior defensively. And ultimately on the outside looking in.

Sergei Shirokov is offline  
Old
03-17-2013, 07:48 PM
  #758
monster_bertuzzi
registered user
 
monster_bertuzzi's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 30,580
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sergei Shirokov View Post
Because that is how the last 2 Stanley Cup winners have won. And it is just as important as offense if not more so.

Ever hear the adage:

"Offense wins games, Defense wins championships"



LOL we haven't been a defensive team, we have relied on offense and that offense has been shutdown, leaving us inferior defensively. And ultimately on the outside looking in.
The Cup champions have had everything, not just sound defence. Regular support scoring from lines 2 and 3 is a must all throughout the playoffs, something we rarely get.

And yes, management took us in an extremely defensive mindset at the deadline last year with their moves.

monster_bertuzzi is offline  
Old
03-17-2013, 07:49 PM
  #759
y2kcanucks
Cult of Personality
 
y2kcanucks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Surrey, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 49,694
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to y2kcanucks
Quote:
Originally Posted by opendoor View Post
Hodgson on the 1st line is working out REAL well for Buffalo. All the way to 29th place in the league.

Name the last cup winner to have a player who's as poor defensively as Hodgson as a top 6 center on their team.
His advanced stats suggest he's not as poor as people on the Vancouver message boards make him out to be.

__________________
http://www.vancitynitetours.com
y2kcanucks is offline  
Old
03-17-2013, 07:49 PM
  #760
Sergei Shirokov
Registered User
 
Sergei Shirokov's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: British Columbia
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,220
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NugentHopkinsfan View Post
Our playoff scoring has been about as bad as any team, even with a cup run. That's what matters not the regular season scoring. A guy like Raymond has been a HORRIBLE playoff producer.
This just proves my point.

We have been superior offensively in the regular season, then come playoff time we expect that success to translate, and it doesn't.

We get shutdown offensively, and since the other team is better defensively than we are, we lose.

And so has Higgins, is he a bad playoff player? Secondary scorers normally don't score alot in the playoffs. It's the same for all guys of Raymond's calibre (Aside from the ones that get hot now and then) Raymond brings speed and good defensive awarness though, which is an advantage in him as a secondary guy.

Sergei Shirokov is offline  
Old
03-17-2013, 07:51 PM
  #761
Verviticus
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 6,762
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
His advanced stats suggest he's not as poor as people on the Vancouver message boards make him out to be.
hes mostly just been average with really poor goaltending ****ing up his numbers

edit: defensively, that is

Verviticus is online now  
Old
03-17-2013, 07:52 PM
  #762
Sergei Shirokov
Registered User
 
Sergei Shirokov's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: British Columbia
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,220
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
The Cup champions have had everything, not just sound defence. Regular support scoring from lines 2 and 3 is a must all throughout the playoffs, something we rarely get.

And yes, management took us in an extremely defensive mindset at the deadline last year with their moves.
And we didn't have everything before.

We didn't have size in 2011 and we were missing defense in 2012.

We were fine offensively once Danny returned last playoffs.

Although we addressed some size concerns, and now with the addition of Garrison we have also addressed defensive concerns (Aswell as size)

You need a good mix of everything and we have been missing it in recent playoff years.

Sergei Shirokov is offline  
Old
03-17-2013, 07:55 PM
  #763
Zarpan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 1,659
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
His advanced stats suggest he's not as poor as people on the Vancouver message boards make him out to be.
His advanced stats would also suggest he hasn't been that much better than Kassian this year.

Zarpan is offline  
Old
03-17-2013, 07:55 PM
  #764
monster_bertuzzi
registered user
 
monster_bertuzzi's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 30,580
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sergei Shirokov View Post
And we didn't have everything before.

We didn't have size in 2011 and we were missing defense in 2012.

We were fine offensively once Danny returned last playoffs.

Although we addressed some size concerns, and now with the addition of Garrison we have also addressed defensive concerns (Aswell as size)

You need a good mix of everything and we have been missing it in recent playoff years.
Finally we're getting on the same page. Our 2011 team basically had it all except toughness, and we just happened to have to meet the toughest dirtiest team in the league in the finals.

I still say with a healthy Kesler back, and two additions at forward (you should know what positions we need), we should contend but it looks gloomy right now.

monster_bertuzzi is offline  
Old
03-17-2013, 07:59 PM
  #765
Sergei Shirokov
Registered User
 
Sergei Shirokov's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: British Columbia
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,220
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
Finally we're getting on the same page. Our 2011 team basically had it all except toughness, and we just happened to have to meet the toughest dirtiest team in the league in the finals.

I still say with a healthy Kesler back, and two additions at forward (you should know what positions we need), we should contend but it looks gloomy right now.
Personally I think a line-up of:

Daniel - Henrik - Burrows
Booth - Kesler - Higgins/Kassian
Raymond - ? - Hansen
(And whatever for the 4th)

Will be a good enough forward group scoring wise for the playoffs. The ? represents where I think we need the addition though.

I like the defense core though now.

Hamhuis -
Edler -
Ballard -

We just need to decide who plays with who on the right side.

Sergei Shirokov is offline  
Old
03-17-2013, 07:59 PM
  #766
King of the ES*
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,728
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sergei Shirokov View Post
Because if you haven't noticed, Center is as much about defense as it is offense.

Kadri has played on Toronto's 3rd line with Leo Komarov and Clarke MacArthur and has been just as impressive offensively while being better defensively.

That to me is far more impressive than Cody, in other words Kadri is more impressive than Cody.

And we may have been able to get him last summer, that is far more of a fault of MG's (And I am just assuming he was on the table which he may not have been) Than trading away a player who didn't want to be here.

But yet we are here crying over that instead.

And Yes Cody is putting up this production while being a nightmare defensively because he is on the Sabres and playing with Vanek and Pominville.

You are kidding yourself if you think he would have similar numbers on our team in the role he would have been in.

Cam Neely would be our all-time leadering goal scorer.

Shall we cry about stuff like this a little more?
Hodgson kills penalties regularly. Remember how he was voted the OHL's best PKer, smartest player, etc.? Those probably aren't things that are awarded to defensive slouches. On what basis are you suggesting that he's so defensively inept?

As for numbers on our team - the guy did have 18 goals while playing roughly 10 minutes per game, so, y'know, his offensive gifts were pretty apparent. Was he not even our 2nd leading goal scorer at the time he was moved?

And as for "crying" - please, just stop. It's not crying, it's a discussion. Our GM made a critical error that will probably hurt this team for a very long time. If calling that "crying" makes you feel better, be my guest, I suppose. Some of us prefer to deal with reality and aren't afraid to face facts.

King of the ES* is offline  
Old
03-17-2013, 08:02 PM
  #767
King of the ES*
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,728
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
It's the only way some people can justify trading away a guy who's turned into an offensive star for a guy who's really done nothing since the trade.
Completely agree.

King of the ES* is offline  
Old
03-17-2013, 08:15 PM
  #768
opendoor
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 9,146
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
His advanced stats suggest he's not as poor as people on the Vancouver message boards make him out to be.
His numbers have been dropping like a rock after a decent start. Over his last 10-15 games he's had a -13 or so Corsi on per 60 min. Same story we saw last season. Decent start in terms of possession numbers, but as the season wore on those got worse and worse.

And that still doesn't answer my question. Name the last cup winner to have a top 6 center that gives up a goal per game or who can't outproduce his opposition.

opendoor is offline  
Old
03-17-2013, 08:18 PM
  #769
timw33
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Victoria
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,123
vCash: 500
Hodgson scores again, his 12th.

timw33 is offline  
Old
03-17-2013, 08:18 PM
  #770
monster_bertuzzi
registered user
 
monster_bertuzzi's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 30,580
vCash: 500
Make it 12 now, lol.

monster_bertuzzi is offline  
Old
03-17-2013, 08:19 PM
  #771
monster_bertuzzi
registered user
 
monster_bertuzzi's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 30,580
vCash: 500
Oh the rebound came right to him in front of the net it doesnt count lolz!!!!!!!11

monster_bertuzzi is offline  
Old
03-17-2013, 08:21 PM
  #772
timw33
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Victoria
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,123
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
Make it 12 now, lol.
Super frustrating to watch while we have Kassian toiling away in the bottom 6. You can't teach that sort of offensive IQ or his shot.

timw33 is offline  
Old
03-17-2013, 08:23 PM
  #773
Sergei Shirokov
Registered User
 
Sergei Shirokov's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: British Columbia
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,220
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by King of the ES View Post
Hodgson kills penalties regularly. Remember how he was voted the OHL's best PKer, smartest player, etc.? Those probably aren't things that are awarded to defensive slouches. On what basis are you suggesting that he's so defensively inept?

As for numbers on our team - the guy did have 18 goals while playing roughly 10 minutes per game, so, y'know, his offensive gifts were pretty apparent. Was he not even our 2nd leading goal scorer at the time he was moved?

And as for "crying" - please, just stop. It's not crying, it's a discussion. Our GM made a critical error that will probably hurt this team for a very long time. If calling that "crying" makes you feel better, be my guest, I suppose. Some of us prefer to deal with reality and aren't afraid to face facts.

There is a difference between killing penalties and being good at it.

Alek Stojanov once had 55 points in 35 OHL Games.

Josh Holden once had 99 points in 56 OHL games.

Not all things carry over to the show.

And what basis? The basis that playing alongside Tomas Vanek, and going on the offensive tear he has been on that he has been on for 4 more GA than GF, and you add to that Vanek is a + player. Also that his faceoff percentage is 47% and that he is the 1st line center on the 29th place team. He is great offensively, but needs to improve his defensive game.

If this isn't crying then why don't we open up a Sammuelsson trade discussion aswell, oh and how about a Neely trade discussion. And why not open an Evan O'Berg trade discussion thread while we are at all of that?

This thread paints all Canuck fans as ********. Since a group of fans continue to question MG for trading a played that requested a trade.

Sergei Shirokov is offline  
Old
03-17-2013, 08:23 PM
  #774
Dado
Guest
 
Country:
Posts: n/a
vCash:
Quote:
Originally Posted by opendoor View Post
And that still doesn't answer my question. Name the last cup winner to have a top 6 center that gives up a goal per game or who can't outproduce his opposition.
It's not a valid question, and therefore can't be meaningfully answered. You're comparing a team outcome with a individual achievement.

 
Old
03-17-2013, 08:23 PM
  #775
Pseudonymous
Registered User
 
Pseudonymous's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,516
vCash: 500
*shrug*

If we had a bottom of the league team, we could screw around with young guys playing on the 1st line too.

Kassian while playing with the sedins could have a ton of points but we're too busy competing to screw around and give our prospects that kind of responsibility.

Kassian didn't even play his way off the sedin line either, burrows just happened to be a better fit. they dont have anybody to push hodgson out

Pseudonymous is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:45 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.