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It's Time to Tank: Who Gets Moved

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Old
03-15-2013, 12:25 PM
  #351
Dr Beinfest
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luis Gudbrunson View Post
https://twitter.com/GeorgeRichards/s...33096076836864


You guys calling for a bunch of moves have been playing too much vidja games. I think Tallon is going to be more concerned with re-signing the guys he wants. Maybe making a couple of trades, but obviously only if it makes sense long-term.
Well the point of those 3-4 year contracts were to establish a team that would last out and flip those players for prospects and create money that would free up when they expired.

If he failed at building a team that would last [until the youngens come through], trading some of them now at a higher value could be better than flipping them when their contracts are coming up.

IF you can get the right deal.

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03-15-2013, 12:45 PM
  #352
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Beinfest View Post
Well the point of those 3-4 year contracts were to establish a team that would last out and flip those players for prospects and create money that would free up when they expired.

If he failed at building a team that would last [until the youngens come through], trading some of them now at a higher value could be better than flipping them when their contracts are coming up.

IF you can get the right deal.
But thats what Tallon's point is, he's not just gonna trade guys just to trade them. He's only going to do it if he gets the return he's looking for. Honestly I doubt we make any moves at all at the deadline this yr with what we have healthy. Maybe just deal someone like Smithson for a pick.

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03-15-2013, 06:59 PM
  #353
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I know. I'm saying I'm on his side of this whole 'tank' thing.

But I also believe the right deals will come along. Maybe in the off-season though, not at the deadline.

I think we also have to be careful as to how many players we move over a small period of time. We need to be viewed to free agents as builders, not sellers. Can't be the Miami Marlins and dish out large contracts and not honor any of them.

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03-15-2013, 07:07 PM
  #354
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if we can get something half decent for goc i could see us trading him as much as i like him. with a possibility of mackinnon, then bjugstad, then shore/matthias, where would he fit? i think a team trying to make a push would give up something decent for him, not too much obviously, but something possibly considering.

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Old
03-15-2013, 07:08 PM
  #355
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Frankly, I think Tallon's got a plan and he's going to stick to it. If he trades anyone, it's because he was always intending to at this point unless of course he gets an offer that blows him away.

The team lacked any sort of depth and was short on talent when he took over. Already it's more talented than it was at that point, and deeper. But they're still a ways off from being a contender. He probably already knows which guys he wants to resign, which he wants to move, and what he generally wants to move them for. The team has been building through the draft, and using tons of picks to do it relatively quickly. The contracts he's signed have been flyers on talented but flawed players meant as a stop gap while the team builds up the way it should have from the beginning. When there's a truly solid core in Florida, you'll see top end players wanting to be a part of a team that is just a piece or two away from being a Cup contender.

Huberdeau, Shore, Gudbranson, Markstrom (despite his stretch of games lately where he isn't coming in prepared to play), Kulikov...these are better players than we've had in the past. Weiss is still a possibility to lead them (why isn't he captain already? Though wouldn't matter this year after all). Bjugstad is coming up...I won't expect Rau or Grimaldi to make it to the NHL, but bonus if they do. Matheson and Knight are probable in the future, and hopefully we keep Campbell to lead the defense. They still need a couple of top end prospects and it's possible this year's draft will get us one of them, given how the Panthers are playing. So then it's a matter of either keeping Flash and Versteeg as 2nd line wingers or finding other mid-level offensive talents to replace them, and then finding a couple solid defensemen to replace Kuba and Jovocop, who clearly aren't capable anymore.

Expect most trades Tallon makes to be either for prospects or picks, not for proven 3rd or 4th line talents. He might also make a move after the NCAA playoffs for undrafted talent, but it's anyone's guess if he gets anyone.

EDIT: just noticed the three-way tie for 1st on the team in points: Fleischmann, Kopecky, and Huberdeau each with 17 points, and Kopecky now within a goal of Huberdeau's team-leading 12. Nice. Campbell just one point behind these three, too.

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03-16-2013, 07:43 AM
  #356
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Originally Posted by Dr Beinfest View Post
Upshall's not getting paid to play the 4th line. Upshall's getting paid to be injured. That's the issue. It's not like he's a talentless Scott Clemmensen. It's the fact that we've yet to see Scottie Upshall. We know Scottie Upshall is talented. He's a middle-6 guy who has never seen a full season in the NHL due to injuries though.

I'd let him play or let him be injured or try and trade him. That money will be much more valuable down the line when you're talking about signing guys like Huberdeau.
Yes, that is the issue, and that will continue to be the issue. The guy is basically injured more than he is healthy. Even though some of them are freak injuries, they keep happening. Even though it sucks, that's just the way it is. That money can be better allocated. No one's going to touch that contract, you're kidding yourself. The only options are to keep him or buy him out.

What are you talking about when you say that money will be more valuable down the line? We are saving millions over the years by buying out Upshall.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pantherfan12 View Post
No, It was injury and not mental. I've seen interviews with him and he spoke about playing injuried. He had hip surgery,like I mentioned before, which means he had to have been struggling during the season.
Injury aside, I actually want more cocky,a bit selffish players on my team. No one complained when Bure was scoring 60 goals for us. While I am not comparing Bure to Versteeg, I am saying I have no problem watching him try too, or succeed in stick-handling his way into the zone instead of the ol' dump and chase. Is there a problem with him maybe wanting to be more like his old teammate, Pat Kane? Maybe he's being hard on himself because he expects more out of himself and he wants to contribute more. Maybe he's been working on his stick-handling more during practice and wants to be a more dementional player, Who knows? I think there are fans here who will just find any reason to have Versteeg traded. I am not saying that Versteeg is a true top line guy, but I am saying that he along side Weiss and Flash made up a great top line for us. That is also why I said unless we are going after and signing Perry, that we need to keep Steeg. I don't know what free agents will be available this offseason, but is any of them a true top line player or all around better than Versteeg? Can't we add a guy like Perry as well as keep Versteeg? I don't know about cap space, but is it scientifically impossible to sign a guy like Perry while keeping Versteeg and most of our team?
I realize that Versteeg had hip surgery, but he has been playing the same way since halfway through last season. It's not because of an injury. An injury doesn't cause someone to think they are Pat Kane and try to stickhandle through the opposing team every game. If anything, coming off of hip surgery, you would think he'd play it safe more often and make smart chips and dumps instead of making low percentage plays and turning the puck over often. He's making the same bad decisions now that he was in the 2nd half of last season.

Yes, there is a problem with Versteeg wanting to be more like Kane or Bure. He's not them, and he never will be. You have no problem with him constantly turning the puck over because it looks "pretty" to you? Are you serious? Alright, that's fine, but I'm definitely not in that boat. If I was his teammate, I wouldn't be happy with him. He's hurt the team with the way he's played for a year now. He could be helping them a lot more by playing smarter hockey.

There are many free agents better than Versteeg this summer. I mean come on, he hasn't even produced worth a snot for a year now. You have to forget the Versteeg in the 1st half of 2011-12. He's not here anymore. Could he come back? Maybe, but he doesn't seem to be trying to and I'm willing to cut our losses and move on.

Forget about Perry, you're just torturing yourself. We traded Ellerby because we wanted to shed salary. This team isn't going to spend big money for another few years. Perry is going to get 8-9M/season on a long term deal.

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03-17-2013, 01:18 AM
  #357
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Florida may spin off some players by the April 3 trade deadline, although Tallon says he's not going to do anything crazy despite reports to the north saying otherwise. A fire sale, Tallon says, isn't forthcoming.

Friday, Tallon made an addition by acquiring defenseman TJ Brennan from Buffalo for the fifth round pick the Panthers got from Los Angeles for Keaton Ellerby.

"I'm listening to everything there is, but there's a lot of vultures out there,'' Tallon said. "Guys want to pluck our top players. I'm not going to do anything emotionally, anything to disrupt the future of this team for a band-aid for this year.''
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Old
03-17-2013, 01:47 AM
  #358
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Originally Posted by Markstrom Rules View Post
Yes, that is the issue, and that will continue to be the issue. The guy is basically injured more than he is healthy. Even though some of them are freak injuries, they keep happening. Even though it sucks, that's just the way it is. That money can be better allocated. No one's going to touch that contract, you're kidding yourself. The only options are to keep him or buy him out.

I'll never understand why it's so common here to draw aggressive conclusions with finger pointing.

Where did I say that? I'm well aware that he's incredibly hard to move. I prefer the option to keep him. Or, if at all possible (need I state the obvious?), trade him. Buying his contract out is not something we want looming on us down the line. Like I said.

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03-17-2013, 03:04 AM
  #359
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I don't know how anyone can say that Jay Bouwmeester isn't the best defenceman this team has developed.

Yah he disappeared at end but the guy was a monster for us for a couple of good seasons (scored 40+ points 3 times and 15 goals twice).

Kulikov is taking a long time to develop and with his injuries, is taking even longer. Guds hasn't shown me anything that tells me he is going to be higher than a 5th defenseman. His skating is just terrible. You can tell me he's injured and isn't physical, so I understand him not hitting. But he looks scared with the puck. His skating is sketchy and a pairing of him and Jovo is a nightmare IMO.

I know we all want Mackinnon (and so do I, trust me), but with the status of our defense right now, I don't know if the smart move for this franchise wouldn't be picking Seth Jones. Our blueline does not look as promising as it once did. Guds is still young and I know a lot of big d-men take time to develop, so I am more worried about Kuli.

Kid has well over 200 games under his belt and still can't hit the net. He's out of position, doesn't have a lot of physical ability in his game, and seems to have some brain farts.

I know a ton of you are high on Kuli so I will most likely get bashed for this, but I'm just not as excited for his future as I once was. I see no signs of serious improvement from him and no progress in his career being made. I really want to see him succeed but we need to start seeing results.

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03-17-2013, 08:28 AM
  #360
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Blah, blah Guds, blah, blah...

A fifth defenseman is all you see? Open your eyes then.

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03-17-2013, 01:09 PM
  #361
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Yeah I must say -- Gudbranson has been disappointing for sure.

But I don't think that means you're looking at a ceiling of a #5 defender.

I would not be opposed to drafting Jones though, but I think a lot of it depends upon what moves we make at the deadline and on/around draft day. Our defense is messed up right now, but I think with one or two key additions and a key subtraction (ehm, Kuba), we would probably benefit just as much from bolstering our offense at that point.

There's a lot of directions we can take to be honest...

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03-17-2013, 01:25 PM
  #362
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laus723 View Post
Blah, blah Guds, blah, blah...

A fifth defenseman is all you see? Open your eyes then.
I think it's time you opened yours.

Other than the last couple games last season and the playoff series, when has Guds been anything but since dawning a Panther sweater? He was a -19 last year and is a -17 this year which is 2nd worst on the team in 9 less games than everyone else.

I also said he's still young and can improve, but it's starting to look like it will take more and more work. Why is it so difficult for you to criticize our young talent? I was as high as anybody was on the big, bruising, Pronger like d-man we drafted, but so far he's just not there yet.

Pronger took a while as well, so I hope things start to click for him, for his sake and ours.

EDIT: Not expecting Guds to turn into Pronger, but there were some "Pronger offensive-lite" comparisons when he was drafted.


Last edited by JonathanHuberdoh: 03-17-2013 at 01:31 PM.
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03-17-2013, 01:30 PM
  #363
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Beinfest View Post
Yeah I must say -- Gudbranson has been disappointing for sure.

But I don't think that means you're looking at a ceiling of a #5 defender.

I would not be opposed to drafting Jones though, but I think a lot of it depends upon what moves we make at the deadline and on/around draft day. Our defense is messed up right now, but I think with one or two key additions and a key subtraction (ehm, Kuba), we would probably benefit just as much from bolstering our offense at that point.

There's a lot of directions we can take to be honest...
Never said he's going to be a #5 defenseman at best, I was just saying that he hasn't looked like anything better than that yet for any extended period of time. I still expect him to be a top-pairing d-man one day.

That said, even if he had a couple of games this season when he was just really noticeable and factored into the game somehow, but he hasn't, I wouldn't start feeling as concerned as I do. Very little impact and that's disappointing because I want to see him angry and knocking guys and blasting that big shot of his. It really looks like a confidence thing just from the way he handles the puck.

As I said in my last post, it's still early in his career and time will tell.

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03-17-2013, 02:16 PM
  #364
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Originally Posted by JonathanHuberdoh View Post
I think it's time you opened yours.

Other than the last couple games last season and the playoff series, when has Guds been anything but since dawning a Panther sweater? He was a -19 last year and is a -17 this year which is 2nd worst on the team in 9 less games than everyone else.

I also said he's still young and can improve, but it's starting to look like it will take more and more work. Why is it so difficult for you to criticize our young talent? I was as high as anybody was on the big, bruising, Pronger like d-man we drafted, but so far he's just not there yet.

Pronger took a while as well, so I hope things start to click for him, for his sake and ours.

EDIT: Not expecting Guds to turn into Pronger, but there were some "Pronger offensive-lite" comparisons when he was drafted.
No. 5 defenseman? No, you just get going ad find yourself typing that. It's nonsense.

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03-17-2013, 04:51 PM
  #365
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Originally Posted by Laus723 View Post
No. 5 defenseman? No, you just get going ad find yourself typing that. It's nonsense.
I swear you read the first sentence and then stop. It's ridiculous. You say nothing to backup your opinion but you **** on everyone else's.

Doesn't make much sense to me.

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03-17-2013, 05:07 PM
  #366
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I swear you read the first sentence and then stop. It's ridiculous. You say nothing to backup your opinion but you **** on everyone else's.

Doesn't make much sense to me.
Wouldn't read too much into +/- stats this season.

Maybe you can argue Gudbranson was taken too high. But, I wouldn't crap all over him just yet. He's still young.

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03-17-2013, 05:30 PM
  #367
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I swear you read the first sentence and then stop. It's ridiculous. You say nothing to backup your opinion but you **** on everyone else's.

Doesn't make much sense to me.
I **** on nonsense, to say all you see is nothing showing you he'll be more than a 5th is IMO just that. He's not the same guy he was last season, not aggressively, he's coming off a big injury, it's a shortened season, and I think it's ridiculous to make that assessment. Take the full Gudbranson into account.

Frankly, I don't think anyone is what we're gonna see next season for the most part, except the kid line. I think Matthias will continue to improve, but he is what he is. But the guys playing poorly? How much are they on the ice? How bad have the goalies been? You simply can't look at +/- this 'season.' Not with the holes in net.

Defensive breakdowns are awful, AHLers showin us why they belong there, the lists go on.

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03-17-2013, 06:15 PM
  #368
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I like Gudbranson, but yes he has been a bit disappointing like the rest of the team. Being paired with Jovonavski on D yesterday didn't help either.....

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03-17-2013, 06:24 PM
  #369
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I like Gudbranson, but yes he has been a bit disappointing like the rest of the team. Being paired with Jovonavski on D yesterday didn't help either.....
Tha explains a bit, I didn't watch yesterday.

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03-17-2013, 07:53 PM
  #370
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Did anyone see harveys tweet?

:Have a feeling a Jovo announcement coming out tomorrow.

Whats this about?

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03-17-2013, 07:55 PM
  #371
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Did anyone see harveys tweet?

:Have a feeling a Jovo announcement coming out tomorrow.

Whats this about?
Maybe he's retiring.

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03-17-2013, 07:56 PM
  #372
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Did anyone see harveys tweet?

:Have a feeling a Jovo announcement coming out tomorrow.

Whats this about?
Likely shutting it down for year.

My instinct is saying hes retiring (no basis, just instinct).


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03-17-2013, 08:03 PM
  #373
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Maybe he's retiring.
Really interesting news if true

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03-17-2013, 08:30 PM
  #374
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What is the cap floor next season? Will we still need to keep Jovo's contract on the books or can we use one of the amnesty buyouts?

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03-17-2013, 08:39 PM
  #375
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Originally Posted by PanthersHockey1 View Post
Did anyone see harveys tweet?

:Have a feeling a Jovo announcement coming out tomorrow.

Whats this about?
Plus this:

@rinkside

@hfialkov I spoke with him last week when you guys were traveling. He brought up some stuff I didn't expect from him.



@hfialkov We could be reading into this... I just remember thinking, "I didn't bring up that subject, why did he?"

Sounds like he's retiring, or at least done for the year.

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