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Why aren't they trying Grabovski on the wing?

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Old
03-17-2013, 06:49 PM
  #1
MuchoMacho
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Why aren't they trying Grabovski on the wing?

Grabo is on the checking line by default. When there's defensive zone starts, Carlyle doesn't put Kessel's line or Kadri's line out there for obvious reasons. Same goes for fourth line.

Grabo has no chemistry with Kessel, so he can't be on the first line and swap out Bozak.

Kadri has chemistry with whoever he plays with. Grabo doesn't have chemistry with Kessel because he's a shoot first player. Kadri is the best playmaker on the team this year, thus far.

Why not try this?

JVR Bozak Kessel
Grabo Kadri Lupul
Komarov McClement Kulemin
McClaren _____ Orr

Nonis can get a veteran fourth line center who can win face offs. Either keep MacArthur for injuries/playoffs or trade him since he's a UFA for picks or whatever.

Thoughts?

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Old
03-17-2013, 06:51 PM
  #2
Erdinger
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Perhaps RC doesn't want to ruin Kadri

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03-17-2013, 07:05 PM
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BayStBullies
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They should try Grabo in the press box for a few games.

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03-17-2013, 07:13 PM
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Interactif
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I mentioned this more than a few times here, I know people hate to hear I told you so, but I've been right more on Grabo here when everyone was pumping his tires.

Under Carlyle he would make a better winger than Center, when you don't do the main function of being a playmaker as a Center very well, it is time to look for alternatives. Wing for a shoot first player is the best alternative for him now.

Worth a try, considering his play this year and the since RC became his coach.

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03-17-2013, 07:15 PM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BayStBullies View Post
They should try Grabo in the press box for a few games.
Winner, based on his play, he should have been there awhile ago. Nonis and RC preach accountability, and who knows he may get the Liles and or Komi treatment soon.

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03-17-2013, 07:17 PM
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GordieHoweHatTrick
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Lupul is way better at LW and youre missing Mac. I'm not doubting whether Grabovski could be a good LW but its a Maple Leafs strong point atm, he's not gonna get a chance there

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03-17-2013, 07:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BallHockeyLegend View Post
Nonis can get a veteran fourth line center who can win face offs. Either keep MacArthur for injuries/playoffs or trade him since he's a UFA for picks or whatever.

Thoughts?
Dammit shouldnt have traded steckel.

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Old
03-17-2013, 07:18 PM
  #8
Funk Volume
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Keep Grabo the **** away from Kadri.

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03-17-2013, 07:26 PM
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Al14
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Grabo needs to be traded.

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03-17-2013, 07:35 PM
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egd27
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Just mentioned this in another thread. I wouldn't mind trying him on the wing with Kadri and JVR. Make McClement the checking centre and use Komarov as the 4th C.

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03-17-2013, 07:36 PM
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MuchoMacho
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All of you guys seem to be pretty down on Grabo. Look at the facts...

1. He's playing defensive zone starts. He's not going to put up a lot of points starting in the defensive zone.

2. He's making 5.5 million per, and has 11 points in 28 games, I'm not sure he has a lot of trade appeal, let alone value.

3. A couple years ago he was a 30/30 (well, close) player. He knows how to find the back of the net.

Trade him/bench him/keep away from Kadri... why? He's not going to just go away. Why not try and reignite him?


Quote:
Originally Posted by GordieHoweHatTrick View Post
Lupul is way better at LW and youre missing Mac. I'm not doubting whether Grabovski could be a good LW but its a Maple Leafs strong point atm, he's not gonna get a chance there
Carlyle likes players on their strong side, when Lupul was in Anaheim Carlyle refused to play him on the left wing with Getzlaf and Perry because he's a right handed shot. When Lupul came to Toronto, he was put on the top line with Kessel regardless of it not being his strong side and put up a ton of points because he was playing on the top line and found chemistry with Kessel. If Kessel had been a left wing, there's little doubt in my mind that Lupul would have played right wing with the same level of effectiveness.

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03-17-2013, 07:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeafsBro View Post
Dammit shouldnt have traded steckel.
Lol I didn't even think of that when I made the thread.

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03-17-2013, 07:46 PM
  #13
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If only there was some magical way that macarthur-grabovski-kulemin line could find that sweet chemistry they had 2 years ago... we would have a great second line... with a top line of Lupul-bozak-Kessel (which scored around a 2.5 ppg combined last year which is great for a first line) we still have extremely dangerous players like Kadri and JVR for secondary scoring.. could potentially have a very good offense.. .

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Old
03-17-2013, 07:46 PM
  #14
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Grabbo is just in need of a wake up call. Somehow Carlyle has got to find a way to light a fire under his arse. Maybe the embarrassment of the shoot out fiasco will give him an " I'll show you" mentality. Or maybe a "**** you" mentality. I guess we'll see. Either way it's time to start pushing buttons because we would be a much better team if Grabbo was playing with some fire

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03-17-2013, 07:58 PM
  #15
Interactif
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BallHockeyLegend View Post
All of you guys seem to be pretty down on Grabo. Look at the facts...

1. He's playing defensive zone starts. He's not going to put up a lot of points starting in the defensive zone.

2. He's making 5.5 million per, and has 11 points in 28 games, I'm not sure he has a lot of trade appeal, let alone value.

3. A couple years ago he was a 30/30 (well, close) player. He knows how to find the back of the net.

Trade him/bench him/keep away from Kadri... why? He's not going to just go away. Why not try and reignite him?




Carlyle likes players on their strong side, when Lupul was in Anaheim Carlyle refused to play him on the left wing with Getzlaf and Perry because he's a right handed shot. When Lupul came to Toronto, he was put on the top line with Kessel regardless of it not being his strong side and put up a ton of points because he was playing on the top line and found chemistry with Kessel. If Kessel had been a left wing, there's little doubt in my mind that Lupul would have played right wing with the same level of effectiveness.
While it is accurate to cite the 29+29 season Grabo had, that was a one off where 3 players snuck up on the league and had career years, it is also important to note those stats were achieved under a vastly different system where no defence was required. We are now seeing the effects of a coach that demands defence first on Grabo. Last 10 games last year Grabo finished with 3 points, some of us saw this coming, this year 29 games only 11 points. That's a 39 game sample where only 14 points were scored by Grabo. Some will say the sample is still too small, but to some it is clear this is the player he is under normal coaching where defence is required from a player.

Kadri is already a better #2C than Grabo and it took him what 29 games as a Center to prove this? kadri is a playmaker first, and thus far has made every player around him look better. It's not in Grabo's skillset to make players look better.

Unless Grabo is put with Kessel and JVR, there is no other place for him on this team, he has failed as the #3C, Kadri has displaced him as the #2C. So really where does RC play him? Do we trade kadri to make room for Grabo? The way I see it is Wing is the only place left for him on this team, right now he misses Ron Wilson's system more than anything. This is the only way to reignite him, but I don't see this team going back to the tommy gun no defence approach. Best to try him on the wing and hope he can have a resurgence like Jason Blake did. Then move him.

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Old
03-17-2013, 07:59 PM
  #16
p.l.f.
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a surgical experiment:

1.joe colborne's size and hands

plus

2.grabovski's legs

equals

3. superstar !

if it fails put them on waivers

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Old
03-17-2013, 08:01 PM
  #17
HockeyThoughts
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Why doesn't Carlyle try our best center (Grabovski) with our best offensive players (JVR, Kessel, Kadri, Lupul)?

Why doesn't Carlyle put Grabovski on the wing to utilize his speed and shot?

WHY DOESN'T CARLYLE PUT ONE OF OUR TOP OFFENSIVE PLAYERS, GRABOVSKI, IN AN OFFENSE POSITION RATHER THAN A SHUTDOWN ROLE WHICH HE IS NOT SUCCEEDING IN?

Why is a former NHL Norris winning defenseman morbidly overweight?

I don't have any answers, just a plethora of very obvious questions.

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03-17-2013, 08:25 PM
  #18
Leafswillrulesometim
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He can probably get 60 points in an 82 game year.... clearly he has some offensive edge to him... Re-igniting him brings more scoring depth to our team, if we somehow get all cylinders rolling with Kessel, Lupul, JVR, and Kadri with Grabo heating up we could have a very dangerous offense...

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Old
03-17-2013, 08:33 PM
  #19
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Trade CMac for extra picks to have at the draft.

Shift Grabo into CMac's winger spot.

Give Kadri a few more minutes per game as the 2nd line center.

Make McClement the 3rd line center.

Call up Colborne to get some NHL games to prep him for a full-time spot next year with the back up plan being to have Komarov play as the 4th line center.

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Old
03-17-2013, 08:33 PM
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they should try grabo with kessel and jvr...bozak can play shut down role and is probably more suited to it than grabo...i dont think the theory of putting shooters on one line is correct anymore since kessel has turned into a pretty good playmaker

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03-17-2013, 08:34 PM
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Why don't they try him on another team?

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03-17-2013, 08:45 PM
  #22
Ricky Bobby
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The problem with Grabo trying to play with other highly skilled players like Kessel, Lupul, JVR is that he doesn't have the hockey sense to maximize their skillsets. Grabo has worked well with Kuli because is Mr. Steady and has incredible defensive anticipation and is always their to cover up for Grabo when not even Grabo knows what he's doing.

Grabo has some of the weirdest hockey sense (or lack of) in the league and I think we're starting to see that he was a good player on a bad team.

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Old
03-17-2013, 08:56 PM
  #23
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He's too dumb to play wing.

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Old
03-17-2013, 08:56 PM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BallHockeyLegend View Post
All of you guys seem to be pretty down on Grabo. Look at the facts...

1. He's playing defensive zone starts. He's not going to put up a lot of points starting in the defensive zone.

2. He's making 5.5 million per, and has 11 points in 28 games, I'm not sure he has a lot of trade appeal, let alone value.

3. A couple years ago he was a 30/30 (well, close) player. He knows how to find the back of the net.

Trade him/bench him/keep away from Kadri... why? He's not going to just go away. Why not try and reignite him?




Carlyle likes players on their strong side, when Lupul was in Anaheim Carlyle refused to play him on the left wing with Getzlaf and Perry because he's a right handed shot. When Lupul came to Toronto, he was put on the top line with Kessel regardless of it not being his strong side and put up a ton of points because he was playing on the top line and found chemistry with Kessel. If Kessel had been a left wing, there's little doubt in my mind that Lupul would have played right wing with the same level of effectiveness.
Under a different regime with Ronnie while we were playing pond hockey.

Forget those numbers. Under a more conventional well constructed system, Grabo clearly isn't a 30-30 player. Wing depth is probably our strongest..i wouldn't wanna restructure the lines just to justify a bad contract/rejuvenate one's career.

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Old
03-17-2013, 09:29 PM
  #25
HockeyThoughts
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I wrote this post on the Trade Rumors & Proposals forum and it seems pretty well suited for this thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by BallHockeyLegend View Post
The reason is that (a) Grabovski has no chemistry with Kessel. Grabovski likes to gain entry off the rush and take a shot. He plays well with wingers who crash the net looking for garbage goals. Kessel is the exact opposite of that. (b) Carlyle uses the Kessel line and Kadri's line for offensive zone starts. Who's suppose to be his first choice for defensive zone starts? The fourth line? Kessel's line? Kadri? No, no and no. Carlyle uses Grabo for those starts because he has to. Within his coaching style, it's his only viable option.

In an ideal world, Grabo has chemistry with Kessel, he plays on the top line. Kadri plays on the second line and Bozak is on the third line. However you have to take the chemistry of players into consideration.

IMO what Carlyle should do is put Grabo on Kadri's wing. Kadri is a playmaker and has chemistry with anyone he plays with.

JVR Bozak Kessel
Grabo Kadri Lupul
Komarov McClement Kulemin
McClaren _____ Orr

Nonis can trade MacArthur at the deadline for picks (or whatever) and then get a veteran fourth line center who can win face offs.
This is a myth that was started by Ron Wilson and has been disproven by posters on the Leafs forum time and time again. Prior to this season, they had been kept apart in the same way that Phil Kessel & Nazem Kadri are currently being kept apart. Before this season, Mikhail Grabovski was our 2nd best scoring threat (behind Kessel) and he was able to generate offense on his own separate line alongside Nikolai Kulemin and Clarke MacArthur. However, with the emergence of offensive wizard, Kadri, the addition of JVR and return of Lupul we are now getting scoring from all over.

I think at the very least we need to try the two players (Kessel & Grabovski) on a line for an extended period of time before completing dismissing the theory as impossible. They both play an intense speed game, Grabovski is reliable defensively and Kessel has evolved into one of the league's elite playmaking wingers. Kessel is an equal threat to pass and shoot, Grabovski falls in the same boat but opts to shoot more and JVR thus far has been the best garbage scorer on our team. Moreover, I remember Grabovski being a pretty apt playmaker in his career season in the 10/11 campaign. Perhaps he opts to shoot because he has lost trust in his linemates to score? Kulemin hasn't looked the same on the offensive side of the puck since that season, Frattin was too green in his extended time on Grabovski's line last season and McClement is a defensive specialist.

I think a line of:
Kessel-Grabovski-JVR

Could possibly re-surge Grabovski's offensive prowess and put Bozak in a much more suitable position in the process (Centering a shutdown line of Kulemin-Bozak-MacArthur).

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