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Old
03-17-2013, 08:52 PM
  #101
Teuras
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We could get a good Dman by trading Stastny

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03-17-2013, 08:58 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Avsare1 View Post
No? Aittokallio will be NHL ready in 2 years.
I love the kid, but I doubt it, I think after two years he'll be ready to start fighting Pickard for the backup job, but I think it's 3-4 before we see him see any real time.

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03-17-2013, 08:59 PM
  #103
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We could get a good Dman by trading Stastny
And then what do we do, when ROR demands 6.5 on his next contract and the team trades him away next offseason? Target a lesser C? Pray that Sgar becomes a 2C?

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03-17-2013, 09:08 PM
  #104
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I love the kid, but I doubt it, I think after two years he'll be ready to start fighting Pickard for the backup job, but I think it's 3-4 before we see him see any real time.
For us, yea I agree. But if he is traded to a team that needs goaltending say New Jersey for example he will be ready to at least backup in the NHL in 2 years.

I don't think he'll ever be in the NHL if he stays with us. Pickard and Varly are better and I think it'll stay that way.

But 2 more years in the AHL and he can be ready for a backup job in the NHL easily IMO.

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03-17-2013, 09:08 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by cgf View Post
And then what do we do, when ROR demands 6.5 on his next contract and the team trades him away next offseason? Target a lesser C? Pray that Sgar becomes a 2C?
Pay him... he is more deserving than Stastny and his 6.6m contract.

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03-17-2013, 09:13 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by iceberg View Post
Pay him... he is more deserving than Stastny and his 6.6m contract.
Stastny put up 3 seasons of 78, 82, and 36 points(in 45 games) before his 6.6M contract....

I don't think Oreilly has put those numbers up.

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03-17-2013, 09:21 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Avsare1 View Post
Stastny put up 3 seasons of 78, 82, and 36 points(in 45 games) before his 6.6M contract....

I don't think Oreilly has put those numbers up.
and he probably won't but i'd rather pay him that money than stastny.

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03-17-2013, 09:24 PM
  #108
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Pay him... he is more deserving than Stastny and his 6.6m contract.
Why? Why just throw money away? Stastny can be traded after oreilly signs an extension. It's not like a nmc gets attached to stastny's contract when we sign oreilly.

Buy low and sell high, no point in making an unnecessarily emotional decision

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Old
03-17-2013, 09:25 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Avsare1 View Post
Stastny put up 3 seasons of 78, 82, and 36 points(in 45 games) before his 6.6M contract....

I don't think Oreilly has put those numbers up.
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Originally Posted by skip2mybordeleau View Post
and he probably won't but i'd rather pay him that money than stastny.
Precisely. We know what Stastny can do and we know what O'Reilly can do. Stastny is defensively capable, but he's by no means a shutdown forward. O'Reilly on the other hand is and can put up points. It's no contest which player you keep.

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Old
03-17-2013, 09:53 PM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teuras View Post
We could get a good Dman by trading Stastny
Who do you have in mind?


Quote:
Originally Posted by iceberg View Post
Pay him... he is more deserving than Stastny and his 6.6m contract.
Based on what? You can't say his past seasons, because the past seasons were what Stats' "undeserved" contract was based on.

Stastny didn't hold out or demand that contract when he received it IIRC, and his previous seasons warranted a good contract. Sure he may not living up to that deal in our eyes as fans, but there is only 1 yr left on it and it doesn't cause the Avs any cap issues currently.

We, as outsiders, don't even know yet what Stats will demand for his next deal. He could be happy receiving a long term deal at 5m/yr. I'd think he's well worth that.

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Old
03-17-2013, 10:00 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by AslanRH View Post
Who do you have in mind?




Based on what? You can't say his past seasons, because the past seasons were what Stats' "undeserved" contract was based on.

Stastny didn't hold out or demand that contract when he received it IIRC, and his previous seasons warranted a good contract. Sure he may not living up to that deal in our eyes as fans, but there is only 1 yr left on it and it doesn't cause the Avs any cap issues currently.

We, as outsiders, don't even know yet what Stats will demand for his next deal. He could be happy receiving a long term deal at 5m/yr. I'd think he's well worth that.
Same thing can be said about ROR, we don't know what he'll be looking for next.

But, if i had to pay 6M+ to one of the two, i would pay ROR.

BTW, neither one is worth 6M+ today.

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Old
03-17-2013, 10:01 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by iceberg View Post
Same thing can be said about ROR, we don't know what he'll be looking for next.

But, if i had to pay 6M+ to one of the two, i would pay ROR.

BTW, neither one is worth 6M+ today.
If that was the case and they wanted 6M+, I would tell them to go **** themselves.

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Old
03-17-2013, 10:06 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by AslanRH View Post
We, as outsiders, don't even know yet what Stats will demand for his next deal. He could be happy receiving a long term deal at 5m/yr. I'd think he's well worth that.
What's the point in having a 3rd line centre who's getting paid 5 mill, when your defense needs a lot of work? Stastny may or may not be worth that money but he would be used as a trading chip to shore up the defense IMO. Being deep down the middle is a luxury the avs just can't afford.

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Old
03-17-2013, 10:24 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by iceberg View Post
Same thing can be said about ROR, we don't know what he'll be looking for next.

But, if i had to pay 6M+ to one of the two, i would pay ROR.

BTW, neither one is worth 6M+ today.
I agree, and that is why trading Stats before knowing what will happen with his and/or ROR's contract seems like a bad idea to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MagicianHishon View Post
What's the point in having a 3rd line centre who's getting paid 5 mill, when your defense needs a lot of work? Stastny may or may not be worth that money but he would be used as a trading chip to shore up the defense IMO. Being deep down the middle is a luxury the avs just can't afford.
Avs would be running 3 scoring lines not the standard line format if they kept all 3 centers.

I'm in the minority on here, but I'd be just as happy trading our 1st for Dman to match with EJ (and probably receive some ++). I know there are great players in the draft. but our first would bring back a much better piece than Stastny would. The missing Dman is the largest and most important hole on this team, and also the hardest piece to fill.

Unless we have the 1st pick (and even then I'm not sure Jones fills our need), I'd trade it if the offer was right.


Last edited by AslanRH: 03-17-2013 at 10:32 PM.
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Old
03-17-2013, 10:43 PM
  #115
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I'm going to be pissed if we trade one of Barrie/Elliott... because whichever one of them gets traded they are going to absolutely blow up.

That being said, I hope someone takes a flyer on Hunwick at the deadline.
Why would we trade either of Barrie or Elliott? They are both in just their 2nd year of pro hockey and we sit in 28th place in the NHL. You trade those types of guys to get a 'last missing piece' when you're going for it and that's when they're just prospects, not when you're in the process of developing them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AslanRH View Post
I agree, and that is why trading Stats before knowing what will happen with his and/or ROR's contract seems like a bad idea to me.



Avs would be running 3 scoring lines not the standard line format if they kept all 3 centers.

I'm in the minority on here, but I'd be just as happy trading our 1st for Dman to match with EJ (and probably receive some ++). I know there are great players in the draft. but our first would bring back a much better piece than Stastny would. The missing Dman is the largest and most important hole on this team, and also the hardest piece to fill.

Unless we have the 1st pick (and even then I'm not sure Jones fills our need), I'd trade it if the offer was right.
It IS a bad idea and it won't happen. The Avs are NOT putting Stastny in the best possible situation to pad his stats and boost his value right now, not even close. Plus, the cap is going down next season and teams looking to pay a guy $6.6M next season while still contending this season are practically non-existent.

Who do you have in mind? And, which team is giving up that kind of player for our 1st?? Because right now, that pick is essentially Seth Jones, Nathan MacKinnon or Jonathan Drouin so that better be a hell of a good d-man, no?

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Old
03-17-2013, 10:46 PM
  #116
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I'll be shocked if anyone gets traded, its pretty clear to me that we are too stubborn to do anything. Our management thinks we have a good team and a good coaching staff even though we are in dead last in the West so why would we do anything to change it up. It seems to be working so well.

In reality doubt anybody gets moved. What team in their right mind would want any of the following players: Jones, Zanon, Hunwick, O'Bryne, Kobasew. The only ones that even have a slight chance of moving would be O'Bryne or Kobasew. O'Bryne is a UFA and can add some toughness and Kobasew is a solid bottom 6 player (who I think the Avs need to re-sign not trade but I'm probably in the minority on that one).

You have to keep Duchene, Varly, Landy, EJ, ROR, McGinn, Downie, McCleod, Bordy, Wilson, Hejda, Hejduk, Mitchell, PAP, all your top prospects (Barrie, Elliott, Seimens, Sgarbossa, Pickard and Hishon), and your 1st rd pick this year. Everyone/Everything else could be moved for the right price.

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Old
03-17-2013, 11:04 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by AslanRH View Post

Avs would be running 3 scoring lines not the standard line format if they kept all 3 centers.

I'm in the minority on here, but I'd be just as happy trading our 1st for Dman to match with EJ (and probably receive some ++). I know there are great players in the draft. but our first would bring back a much better piece than Stastny would. The missing Dman is the largest and most important hole on this team, and also the hardest piece to fill.

Unless we have the 1st pick (and even then I'm not sure Jones fills our need), I'd trade it if the offer was right.
For that to happen atleast one centre needs to be carrying a line all by himself. The avs just don't have enough winger depth to provide for all the centres and the avs don't a centre capable of carrying a line all by his lonesome. Factor in ice time and one of the centres will for sure get fed up and request a trade ala Staal.

If it's to better the team short/long term than by all means trade it but I don't think you'll get fair value. When was the last time a bottom 5 pick was traded?

I for one hope they get Drouin, if they end up with the 1st pick.

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Old
03-17-2013, 11:05 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by MagicianHishon View Post
What's the point in having a 3rd line centre who's getting paid 5 mill, when your defense needs a lot of work? Stastny may or may not be worth that money but he would be used as a trading chip to shore up the defense IMO. Being deep down the middle is a luxury the avs just can't afford.
I love rolling the 3 scoring lines and it would make us very had to defend against when we become playoff contenders, but I agree that we NEED hella lot of work in the D'core.

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03-17-2013, 11:26 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Bender View Post
Who do you have in mind? And, which team is giving up that kind of player for our 1st?? Because right now, that pick is essentially Seth Jones, Nathan MacKinnon or Jonathan Drouin so that better be a hell of a good d-man, no?
Just meant that it sounds like you all feel the 1st holds much more value than Stastny, and by correlation it would return a better defense man. But I'm clearly not the expert on the value of assets that others who post on the Avs' boards are. Nor am I an expert on determining who is the "right" partner for EJ.
*EDIT* I also do not think it has to be a great player, but the right player. Perhaps a less "great" player who is the "right" guy for EJ plus some assets to even out the value.

Just think picking up an immediate partner for EJ is far more important to this team's (core's) future than anyone we could get in this draft. I trust Sherman to get a good return for the pick. Add a Dman to this core and a new coach, and the Avs should be continual playoff caliber team for the next 5 years IMO.


Last edited by AslanRH: 03-17-2013 at 11:43 PM. Reason: added a thought for clarification
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Old
03-18-2013, 12:26 AM
  #120
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Originally Posted by AslanRH View Post
Just meant that it sounds like you all feel the 1st holds much more value than Stastny, and by correlation it would return a better defense man. But I'm clearly not the expert on the value of assets that others who post on the Avs' boards are. Nor am I an expert on determining who is the "right" partner for EJ.
*EDIT* I also do not think it has to be a great player, but the right player. Perhaps a less "great" player who is the "right" guy for EJ plus some assets to even out the value.

Just think picking up an immediate partner for EJ is far more important to this team's (core's) future than anyone we could get in this draft. I trust Sherman to get a good return for the pick. Add a Dman to this core and a new coach, and the Avs should be continual playoff caliber team for the next 5 years IMO.
I've said in the past that I'd trade the pick for a defender if it wasn't going to be a top 4 pick. Usually that would be top 3 or top 2, but this draft is exceptionally deep.

The top 4-6 players in this draft look to be franchise caliber. Drouin, Mack, and Jones specifically.

Is Yandle worth Landeskog? No... Specifically Drouin, Mackinnon, and Jones would be like trading Landeskog.

If we draft Drouin, we have enough winger depth to roll all three scoring lines. Add some free-agent D, and allow our defensive prospects to fill out our D core.

If we draft Mackinnon, trade Stastny or convert Mack to wing, trade Stastny if that does not work.

If we draft Jones, bolster our winger depth through free-agency.

Either way... We are a few free-agents and a core level draft pick away from filling our roster needs.


Last edited by CobraAcesS: 03-18-2013 at 12:35 AM.
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Old
03-18-2013, 01:31 AM
  #121
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I personally like Kobasew a little more than McLeod with Bordy around, since when has McLeod been a good PKer? Kobasew actually has some ability to score goals, and kills penalties. But that's if I had to choose between one or the other.

Honestly when it comes down to it, I'd like to keep both McLeod & Kobasew for the fourth line wings flanking Mitchell.

That line at times this year has had to be our third line, and they were able to pin opposing teams second lines (Even 1st lines a few times) in their own end, even being able to score occasionally.

I get peoples argument that Pj's will be a cheaper fourth line RW, but that kid really needs to learn how to stay on his skates. My guess is in all actuality they will let Kobasew go, and keep PJs. But I don't have to agree with that...

My opinion on that will change if Pjs learns how to kill penalties. Kobasew is the better utility player right now IMO.

We also have Olver as well...

Olver
PJ
McLeod
Bordy
Kobasew

That's 5 4th line wingers for maybe 3 spots if you include having a extra forward. All of them have their strengths and weaknesses...
Yea lately, but as someone I assume has followed the Avs the last couple years at least, you've got to see that Kobasew is really just playing for a contract or a trade at this point. This is like the best he's ever played here. I don't have any hopes of him being able to sustain this level of play on the Avalanche past this year.

Cody on the other hand, does so much to hel this team. Even when he's not scoring, he's providing energizing shifts by laying the body, or hustling to beat icings, or cycling well with Bordy, or fighting, or working hard on the PK., or just being a teammate that everyone seems to love having around.

He's not a PK dynamo but he's quite good in his own right. He picks the right time to be aggressive, and has good speed and second efforts to help him do so. He's easily better than Kobasew in this regard on a consistent basis IMO.

He's the ultimate 4th liner. His value is worth more to this team than any draft pick outside the 1st round IMO, and that's just on straight value, not taking into equation the fact they might strike out or hit big with the pick.

If they want some kind of pick, they're much better off trading a lot of other guys ahead of him. IMO he's becoming a career Avalanche player, like a guy like McCarty was with the Wings. He's the kind of guy that could have a Avalanche log tattooed on his chest, that's how much he cares and works for this team. I wouldn't want to ever get rid of a guy like that, or think he can just be replaced by some other 4th line scrub.


Last edited by Foppa2118: 03-18-2013 at 01:38 AM.
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Old
03-18-2013, 04:04 AM
  #122
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No? Aittokallio will be NHL ready in 2 years.
Aittokallio will not play a significant roll in the NHL in the next 2 years.

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Old
03-18-2013, 04:06 AM
  #123
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Why? Why just throw money away? Stastny can be traded after oreilly signs an extension. It's not like a nmc gets attached to stastny's contract when we sign oreilly.

Buy low and sell high, no point in making an unnecessarily emotional decision
Cause then Stastny will be a pending UFA and will fetch no bigger return than Ribeiro or Roy did. At least now there is a chance of a team paying up more than that. Even though I doubt someone will.

If we can trade one out of our three top 6 centers I would glady do it, mainly because we are desperate for a defenseman.

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03-18-2013, 04:26 AM
  #124
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Yea lately, but as someone I assume has followed the Avs the last couple years at least, you've got to see that Kobasew is really just playing for a contract or a trade at this point. This is like the best he's ever played here. I don't have any hopes of him being able to sustain this level of play on the Avalanche past this year.

Cody on the other hand, does so much to hel this team. Even when he's not scoring, he's providing energizing shifts by laying the body, or hustling to beat icings, or cycling well with Bordy, or fighting, or working hard on the PK., or just being a teammate that everyone seems to love having around.

He's not a PK dynamo but he's quite good in his own right. He picks the right time to be aggressive, and has good speed and second efforts to help him do so. He's easily better than Kobasew in this regard on a consistent basis IMO.

He's the ultimate 4th liner. His value is worth more to this team than any draft pick outside the 1st round IMO, and that's just on straight value, not taking into equation the fact they might strike out or hit big with the pick.

If they want some kind of pick, they're much better off trading a lot of other guys ahead of him. IMO he's becoming a career Avalanche player, like a guy like McCarty was with the Wings. He's the kind of guy that could have a Avalanche log tattooed on his chest, that's how much he cares and works for this team. I wouldn't want to ever get rid of a guy like that, or think he can just be replaced by some other 4th line scrub.
That's a pretty good point, I don't think they'll trade the highlander. Last year he struggled a little bit and they still gave him a new contract and showed some loyalty to him by giving him a three year contract. Hes been better this year, not as many dumb penalties.

Which was really my gripe about him last year. Maybe management learned a little bit from the fan outrage that ensued after Lappy was let go.

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Old
03-18-2013, 04:39 AM
  #125
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I think we will try to move our pending UFA's and RFA's that we don't want to re-sign or will demand too much money. That's usually how Sherman works.

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