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** Official 2013 Fire Sacco Thread: Part 1 **

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Old
03-17-2013, 09:51 PM
  #676
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Originally Posted by Cypher View Post
I rather keep Sacco instead of hiring Roy as coach and GM.

Avs need to think outside the box, this whole staying in the family thing isn't working. They need a culture change, and Roy isn't it.
Maybe Roy would be, he doesn't seem to be the kind of guy that would be satisfied being PL's puppet.

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03-17-2013, 09:56 PM
  #677
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Yeah. I think Roy would be perfect, because there is no way that he is going to be a yes man to a ****** franchise. He is way too competitive.

I would love to have Roy coaching this team, and involved in management.

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03-17-2013, 10:03 PM
  #678
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I'm not familiar enough with Quinn to know how different his system is than Sacco's. So I can't say how the evaluating of players would go if the change was made.

I'd rather Sakic coach the rest of the year, and let him evaluate the talent. He does not seem to have ambitions to coach, so the interim tag would be less likely to become permanent.

Hell, I'd be happy if Hejduk "retired" and then coached the rest of the year or even if he went old school and player-coached.

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03-17-2013, 10:11 PM
  #679
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Originally Posted by bohlmeister View Post
Yeah. I think Roy would be perfect, because there is no way that he is going to be a yes man to a ****** franchise. He is way too competitive.

I would love to have Roy coaching this team, and involved in management.
How do you think Roy would have handled the ROR situation?

And we all complain about PL holding grudges, Roy has not exactly immune to that himself.

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Old
03-17-2013, 10:16 PM
  #680
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Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
Disagree, fire him now so you know what you have in your players. You won't have enough time to evaluate your team response to a new coach next season before deciding what to so with guys like O'Reilly and Stastny.

Let Quinn takeover, bring in Cooper in the offseason and let the team prove if they were hindered by Sacco or not.
I disagree. I believe that if you re-sign BOTH players to more reasonable cap hits, they will BOTH be more attractive if you want to trade them in a year or two or not at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by S E P H View Post
I was talking to one of the guy who is high in the Thunderbirds organization and knows some people in the Avs organization and he said Lacroix wants to hire Roy as coach and GM.

Take it for whats it is worth because it sounds pretty retarded to me.
You mean the Seattle Thunderbirds who have Steve Konowalchuk as their head coach?

Yeah, I've been TELLING you guys that Roy was gonna be the guy for a long time now, haven't I. Not sure about the GM title as well, but who knows...as others have mentioned, all GMs have assistants and he's been doing an AMAZING job with the Quebec Remparts with the dual role.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cypher View Post
I rather keep Sacco instead of hiring Roy as coach and GM.

Avs need to think outside the box, this whole staying in the family thing isn't working. They need a culture change, and Roy isn't it.
I disagree. Once we get rid of this coaching staff and bring in a WINNER (at least at 'some' level), you will see this team take off like the Blues did last year, I guarantee it.

Lacroix is using the EXACT same blueprint that helped him win 2 Stanley Cups after the Nordiques moved from Quebec to Colorado.

Top picks? Check!
1987 - Sakic 15th* (Dale Hunter trade with Washington)
1988 - Leschysyn 3rd
1989 - Sundin 1st | Foote 22nd
1990 - Nolan 1st
1991 - Lindros 1st
1992 - Warriner 4th

Horrible coach? Check!
Pierre Page

Take a look at the 1993-94 roster that MISSED the playoffs because of that ATROCITY of a head coach: http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/l...000471994.html

The very next season we went from out of the playoffs to 2nd overall in the league with Crawford coaching the team.

Top picks? Check!
2006 - Stewart 18th - Traded for EJ & Siemens
2007 - Shattenkirk 14th - Traded for EJ & Siemens
2009 - Duchene 3rd | O'Reilly 33rd
2010 - Hishon 17th
2011 - Landeskog 2nd | Siemens 11th
2013 - ?

Horrible coach? Check!
Joe Sacco

As long as the Avs do the right thing and bring in the right guy to move this team forward after this season is over, I'll be happy. I don't really care what happens with this season as long as it means we get another top 3 pick.

I'm a bit worried about Varly and that he must be pretty pissed about how this season has gone but if Patrick Roy becomes the next coach of this team, I think we'll see an unbelievable season out of that guy next year.

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03-17-2013, 10:30 PM
  #681
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Originally Posted by Bender View Post
I disagree. I believe that if you re-sign BOTH players to more reasonable cap hits, they will BOTH be more attractive if you want to trade them in a year or two or not at all.



I disagree. Once we get rid of this coaching staff and bring in a WINNER (at least at 'some' level), you will see this team take off like the Blues did last year, I guarantee it.

Lacroix is using the EXACT same blueprint that helped him win 2 Stanley Cups after the Nordiques moved from Quebec to Colorado.

Top picks? Check!
1987 - Sakic 15th* (Dale Hunter trade with Washington)
1988 - Leschysyn 3rd
1989 - Sundin 1st | Foote 22nd
1990 - Nolan 1st
1991 - Lindros 1st
1992 - Warriner 4th

Horrible coach? Check!
Pierre Page

Take a look at the 1993-94 roster that MISSED the playoffs because of that ATROCITY of a head coach: http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/l...000471994.html

The very next season we went from out of the playoffs to 2nd overall in the league with Crawford coaching the team.

Top picks? Check!
2006 - Stewart 18th - Traded for EJ & Siemens
2007 - Shattenkirk 14th - Traded for EJ & Siemens
2009 - Duchene 3rd | O'Reilly 33rd
2010 - Hishon 17th
2011 - Landeskog 2nd | Siemens 11th
2013 - ?

Horrible coach? Check!
Joe Sacco

As long as the Avs do the right thing and bring in the right guy to move this team forward after this season is over, I'll be happy. I don't really care what happens with this season as long as it means we get another top 3 pick.

I'm a bit worried about Varly and that he must be pretty pissed about how this season has gone but if Patrick Roy becomes the next coach of this team, I think we'll see an unbelievable season out of that guy next year.
Great post! I'd been pushing that comparison to my Avs buddies here in town, too.

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03-17-2013, 10:38 PM
  #682
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Originally Posted by AslanRH View Post
How do you think Roy would have handled the ROR situation?

And we all complain about PL holding grudges, Roy has not exactly immune to that himself.
Impossible to tell. Would have been interesting. I doubt Roy would hold it against ROR for standing up for himself. I remember a goaltender in the 90's standing up for himself and requesting a trade.....

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Old
03-17-2013, 10:38 PM
  #683
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bender View Post
I disagree. I believe that if you re-sign BOTH players to more reasonable cap hits, they will BOTH be more attractive if you want to trade them in a year or two or not at all.



You mean the Seattle Thunderbirds who have Steve Konowalchuk as their head coach?

Yeah, I've been TELLING you guys that Roy was gonna be the guy for a long time now, haven't I. Not sure about the GM title as well, but who knows...as others have mentioned, all GMs have assistants and he's been doing an AMAZING job with the Quebec Remparts with the dual role.



I disagree. Once we get rid of this coaching staff and bring in a WINNER (at least at 'some' level), you will see this team take off like the Blues did last year, I guarantee it.

Lacroix is using the EXACT same blueprint that helped him win 2 Stanley Cups after the Nordiques moved from Quebec to Colorado.

Top picks? Check!
1987 - Sakic 15th* (Dale Hunter trade with Washington)
1988 - Leschysyn 3rd
1989 - Sundin 1st | Foote 22nd
1990 - Nolan 1st
1991 - Lindros 1st
1992 - Warriner 4th

Horrible coach? Check!
Pierre Page

Take a look at the 1993-94 roster that MISSED the playoffs because of that ATROCITY of a head coach: http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/l...000471994.html

The very next season we went from out of the playoffs to 2nd overall in the league with Crawford coaching the team.

Top picks? Check!
2006 - Stewart 18th - Traded for EJ & Siemens
2007 - Shattenkirk 14th - Traded for EJ & Siemens
2009 - Duchene 3rd | O'Reilly 33rd
2010 - Hishon 17th
2011 - Landeskog 2nd | Siemens 11th
2013 - ?

Horrible coach? Check!
Joe Sacco

As long as the Avs do the right thing and bring in the right guy to move this team forward after this season is over, I'll be happy. I don't really care what happens with this season as long as it means we get another top 3 pick.

I'm a bit worried about Varly and that he must be pretty pissed about how this season has gone but if Patrick Roy becomes the next coach of this team, I think we'll see an unbelievable season out of that guy next year.
Nice Bender, I'd love Roy behind the bench mainly because of his passion and larger than life presence in general.

He'd be the injection of 'life' this franchise needs. He has no problem speaking his mind to the media as well. Which we as fans will appreciate...

He also seems to be an offensive minded coach from what I've read, which means we will probably play more like Chicago but with a little more grit.

I could totally see Sherman & Roy sharing some GM duties, Roy may have more say over player movement. But Sherman would handle the finances and paperwork type stuff like he should be doing.

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Old
03-17-2013, 10:40 PM
  #684
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Originally Posted by Bender View Post
You mean the Seattle Thunderbirds who have Steve Konowalchuk as their head coach?
No Colorado Thunderbirds, who are one of the best AAA development teams in the country.

Also I am not saying any of this, just reporting it to see if this guy is creditable or not. Personally I don't think any team would hire anybody as GM and Coach. I could see Roy getting hired as Assistant to the GM, but not full GM responsibilities, but I wouldn't be surprised because as you guys said it,

1) Seems like a Lacroix move.
2) As Frenchy & Bender said, we have wanted him for a long time now.

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03-17-2013, 10:48 PM
  #685
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While I agree with your comparison Bender I think there's a pretty big difference in the quality of players we had on the roster and in the system on that Nords team and the ones we have now.

I would welcome Roy as coach just because he would by his personality introduce a culture change. I don't see Roy avoiding the media and he also brings a lot of passion and desire to win. I don't think he's an idea candidate with an idea resume but I do think that he he's probably our best realistic option since it's gonna be someone with organizational ties.

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03-17-2013, 10:52 PM
  #686
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If I was an under-performing player and I had to answer to ROY. I would kick it up a notch that's for sure

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Old
03-17-2013, 10:59 PM
  #687
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Originally Posted by S E P H View Post
No Colorado Thunderbirds, who are one of the best AAA development teams in the country.

Also I am not saying any of this, just reporting it to see if this guy is creditable or not. Personally I don't think any team would hire anybody as GM and Coach. I could see Roy getting hired as Assistant to the GM, but not full GM responsibilities, but I wouldn't be surprised because as you guys said it,

1) Seems like a Lacroix move.
2) As Frenchy & Bender said, we have wanted him for a long time now.
Ah, well how are they connected to the Avs? How would they know?

It really DOES seem like a Lacroix move.

When you really think about it though, we all know he was interviewed for the job in 2009 but apparently wanted too much $$$. The Avs were just in the process of getting rid of Tyler Arnason as their 2nd line center, to put things in perspective and after a putrid finish, the team seemed destined for an inevitable and long rebuild. The REAL question then becomes, "if you're going to STINK, why bring in a top notch coach and pay him big money just so your team stinks just a little bit less?" In turn, that just causes your 'rebuild' to take longer (unless you're extremely lucky at the draft).

I think Lacroix has been planning this for a long while and he doesn't want to just be a 'good team' or a 'contending team', he wants us to be a dominant team for the foreseeable future. How else can you explain not only having hired a coach that didn't even have a winning record in the AHL but actually EXTENDED him beyond 3 years after everything he's shown as a coach, let alone his record against the division?

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03-17-2013, 11:01 PM
  #688
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Originally Posted by Bender View Post
Ah, well how are they connected to the Avs? How would they know?

It really DOES seem like a Lacroix move.

When you really think about it though, we all know he was interviewed for the job in 2009 but apparently wanted too much $$$. The Avs were just in the process of getting rid of Tyler Arnason as their 2nd line center, to put things in perspective and after a putrid finish, the team seemed destined for an inevitable and long rebuild. The REAL question then becomes, "if you're going to STINK, why bring in a top notch coach and pay him big money just so your team stinks just a little bit less?" In turn, that just causes your 'rebuild' to take longer (unless you're extremely lucky at the draft).

I think Lacroix has been planning this for a long while and he doesn't want to just be a 'good team' or a 'contending team', he wants us to be a dominant team for the foreseeable future. How else can you explain not only having hired a coach that didn't even have a winning record in the AHL but actually EXTENDED him beyond 3 years after everything he's shown as a coach, let alone his record against the division?
Bender, why you have to give me hope for future?

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03-17-2013, 11:14 PM
  #689
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Originally Posted by Nihiliste View Post
While I agree with your comparison Bender I think there's a pretty big difference in the quality of players we had on the roster and in the system on that Nords team and the ones we have now.

I would welcome Roy as coach just because he would by his personality introduce a culture change. I don't see Roy avoiding the media and he also brings a lot of passion and desire to win. I don't think he's an idea candidate with an idea resume but I do think that he he's probably our best realistic option since it's gonna be someone with organizational ties.
I also agree with THAT but as a counter, there is a salary cap in place now, so there is a grand total of ZERO teams that could realistically afford to have Sakic, Roy, Blake, Forsberg & Foote OR Yzerman, Lidstrom, Fedorov, Shanahan & Hull anyways so our opposition aren't stacking teams like this either.

Besides, I'm not suggesting our rebuild = what happened back then (Lindros trade plus STEALING Roy out of Montreal would be pretty hard to do, nowadays) but I think it's the same kind of plan as far as how they are going about it.

A lot of people have made comparables to the Kings and I think it's a pretty good one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CobraAcesS View Post
Bender, why you have to give me hope for future?
It's gonna happpen.

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Old
03-17-2013, 11:19 PM
  #690
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Ah, well how are they connected to the Avs? How would they know?
This guy has been a part of Colorado's hockey since the late 80s and I watched him practiced with the Avs on a few occasions when they practiced at South Suburban.

Though overall, trust me I personally don't buy him one bit, the next time I see him I will ask him a few other questions about who the Avs are interested and report back.

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03-18-2013, 12:07 AM
  #691
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Impossible to tell. Would have been interesting. I doubt Roy would hold it against ROR for standing up for himself. I remember a goaltender in the 90's standing up for himself and requesting a trade.....
Difference is Roy was a Stanley Cup/Conn Smythe winning goaltender and his departure from the Habs wasn't about money.

Who knows how Roy would handle it. He may have just skated ROR on the 4th line with Kobasew and Bordeleau or made him a healthy scratch to teach him a lesson. Or he may have reunited him with Lando right off the bat. And if was the GM too he may not have matched or it may not have gotten to the offer sheet stage. We'll just never know.

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03-18-2013, 06:45 AM
  #692
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I remain adamant, Roy coaching this team will ultimately be a failure and look poor after the five year experiment. He, in my opinion, is not what this team needs. While a winning philosophy is nice, we need a coach that isn't ready to jump off the bench and pummel someone... we need a tactician.

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03-18-2013, 08:13 AM
  #693
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I remain adamant, Roy coaching this team will ultimately be a failure and look poor after the five year experiment. He, in my opinion, is not what this team needs. While a winning philosophy is nice, we need a coach that isn't ready to jump off the bench and pummel someone... we need a tactician.
I don't agree. I think the Avs NEED to have a winner behind the bench to have credibility with their own players as well as someone who's a proven winner as a head coach (memorial cup).

You act as though the incident that happened like 5 years ago is something that happens every day with Roy behind the bench. Ridiculous. The guy has an incredible record as a GM & head coach of the Remparts ever since he started 7-8 years ago. Marc Crawford, Bob Hartley, Joel Quenneville all of these guys had that fiery competitive spirit that would come out whenever we were getting screwed over by the refs or something and at least they showed some passion, unlike the guy we presently have.

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03-18-2013, 08:57 AM
  #694
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I think, Roy would be good for the team and the franchise. I don't want him to be both GM and coach but it would make me happy to see him stand behind the bench. I think he would turn the players into winners, would be able to actually coach during a game and the whole Avalanche experience would finally become interesting again.

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03-18-2013, 09:19 AM
  #695
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Roy instead of Quinn as overdue successor of Sacco?

Sure. Where do I sign.

Roy replacing Sacco and Sherman (for the record I want to fire both):

No. Never. Please don't do this.

If Roy wants to coach the Avs, I would love to see it. It could and I believe it would ultimately fail but it is not like Sacco or Quinn will do anybetter.

A new GM? Yeah please. But we have to get rid of PL and his cronies at the same time. Otherwise it would not make sense.

Replacing coach and GM with Roy?

Horrible. It will fail beyond belief. This only works in soccer, where the manager can only spend so much money to improve the team he coaches.
But in a capworld with draftpicks? Oh God Hell No.

Imagine Sacco as GM. He would give an 8 yr 25 M deal to Hunwick and trade Barrie for a vet the first chance he gets.
It is just such a conflict of interest. Coach always has to take the "win-now" approach. A GM has to look out for the long-term future of the franchise.

I believe a scenario with Roy being GM and coach under the guidance of PL would turn out worse than the current situation.

God No. Rather keep Sherman and get someone like Cooper or Eakins.

This former superstar who takes on a dual managing/coaching role already failed horribly in Phoenix with freaking Gretzky.

Please spare me from reliving that on the Avs.

Is there a slight chance that it works? Yes. But there is also a slight chance that Sacco becomes a Stanley Cup winning coach.

And right now I would not be sure which one I would take if I would have to bet on one.


Last edited by JoemAvs: 03-18-2013 at 09:43 AM.
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03-18-2013, 09:34 AM
  #696
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Coach/GM is a terrible idea.

First of all, both are full time jobs. I don't believe a coach can stay in touch with other GMs as much as is needed. It's very much about networking and learning how other GMs work.

Secondly, they operate on conflicting time horizons. A coach has much more of a short term focus than a GM should have. There is too much risk involved where the coach can sacrifice a lot of future for a little bit of improvement now, if he would have power to do trades.

It might have worked in the 80s, but running a NHL team is completely different these days.

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03-18-2013, 09:57 AM
  #697
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I was talking to one of the guy who is high in the Thunderbirds organization and knows some people in the Avs organization and he said Lacroix wants to hire Roy as coach and GM.

Take it for whats it is worth because it sounds pretty retarded to me.
I'd do it. It would be risky as hell and could absolutely blow up in the Avs' faces, but Roy has a good track record in junior and would expect to be a winner from day 1 (something this team could really use). There are a few things that you can say about Roy that everybody knows to be true. He is as passionate as anybody comes about winning and expects nothing less. He will not be force fed what to do by his higher ups. As a GM he isn't afraid to go out and get talent.

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03-18-2013, 10:17 AM
  #698
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Roy instead of Quinn as overdue successor of Sacco?

Sure. Where do I sign.

Roy replacing Sacco and Sherman (for the record I want to fire both):

No. Never. Please don't do this.

If Roy wants to coach the Avs, I would love to see it. It could and I believe it would ultimately fail but it is not like Sacco or Quinn will do anybetter.

A new GM? Yeah please. But we have to get rid of PL and his cronies at the same time. Otherwise it would not make sense.

Replacing coach and GM with Roy?

Horrible. It will fail beyond belief. This only works in soccer, where the manager can only spend so much money to improve the team he coaches.
But in a capworld with draftpicks? Oh God Hell No.

Imagine Sacco as GM. He would give an 8 yr 25 M deal to Hunwick and trade Barrie for a vet the first chance he gets.
It is just such a conflict of interest. Coach always has to take the "win-now" approach. A GM has to look out for the long-term future of the franchise.

I believe a scenario with Roy being GM and coach under the guidance of PL would turn out worse than the current situation.

God No. Rather keep Sherman and get someone like Cooper or Eakins.

This former superstar who takes on a dual managing/coaching role already failed horribly in Phoenix with freaking Gretzky.

Please spare me from reliving that on the Avs.

Is there a slight chance that it works? Yes. But there is also a slight chance that Sacco becomes a Stanley Cup winning coach.

And right now I would not be sure which one I would take if I would have to bet on one.
I don't believe Wayne Gretzky was ever the GM in Phoenix. Mike Barnett was GM when Wayner was coaching the yotes.

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03-18-2013, 10:34 AM
  #699
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Coach/GM is a terrible idea.

First of all, both are full time jobs. I don't believe a coach can stay in touch with other GMs as much as is needed. It's very much about networking and learning how other GMs work.

Secondly, they operate on conflicting time horizons. A coach has much more of a short term focus than a GM should have. There is too much risk involved where the coach can sacrifice a lot of future for a little bit of improvement now, if he would have power to do trades.

It might have worked in the 80s, but running a NHL team is completely different these days.

Agreed, I don't mind bringing Roy in as coach, but I would hate the idea of him getting both jobs.

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03-18-2013, 10:42 AM
  #700
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A question for everybody who wouldn't take Roy as the GM. Would you rather have PL still indirectly calling the shots or would you rather have Roy?

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