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Bob Gainey's drastic purge.

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Old
08-01-2006, 03:51 PM
  #26
Lalander977
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Originally Posted by loadie View Post
Actually, Kovy wasn't already here. BG went out and got Kovy for Balej and a 2nd I believe.
I just took the original poster's list as guys that was already there...

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08-01-2006, 03:53 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Lalander977 View Post
Well that post was constructive and informative
Pot.Kettle.Etc.

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08-01-2006, 03:58 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Pere Noel View Post
I recently had a peak at our roster for the previous season (2003-2004) and got curious as to whom Bob had let go, "lost", or traded.

As I made the count, I was astonished by the numbers : 67% of the players had been replaced within two seasons !

For the purpose of my calculations, I only counted players that had played 8 or more games in the 2003-2004 seasons. I found 20 players that are gone by now, and 10 remaining ones.

This came a bit a shock... and that drastic purge, ironically, contrasts severely with the constant critics of many, to the effect that Bob Gainey is not a "mover" and sits down and do nothing.

20 players that are gone:

1- Patrice Brisebois
2- Pierre Dagenais
3- Stephane Quintal
4- Andreas Dackell
5- Jim Dowd
6- Jan Bulis
7- Yanic Perreault
8- Richard Zednik
9- Donald Audette
10- Joe Juneau
11- Jason Ward
12- Niklas Sundstrom
13- Ron Hainsey
14- Chad Kilger
15- Gordie Dwyer
16- Karl Dykhuis
17- Darren Langdon
18- Marcel Hossa
19- Mathieu Garon
20- Jose Theodore

10 Players that are still here:

1- Alexei Kovalev
2- Saku Koivu
3- Mike Ribeiro
4- Michael Ryder
5- Steve Begin
6- Sheldon Souray
7- Mike Komisarek
8- Craig Rivet
9- Francis Bouillon
10- Andrei Markov

PS: Had Bob signed a UFA center, I suspect Ribeiro would have been gone as well. Just speculation from my part. That would have brought the number to 70% !
Wow! I don't like 100% of the players he got rid of, and amongst those he kept, I only dislike one and that's Ribeiro.

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08-01-2006, 03:58 PM
  #29
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More to come after next season ... Ribeiro and Souray (because he will be too expensive) among the hold overs. We will probably also have Gainey acquisitions like Aebischer, Bonk, Downey, Johnson also fly the coup.

At some point in the next 12 months, the turnover rate will decrease substantially. The final core pieces will all be in place with core youngsters from the farm all knocking on the door. This organization will become very self sufficient and will rarely look to the outside for help.

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08-01-2006, 04:13 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by AH View Post
More to come after next season ... Ribeiro and Souray (because he will be too expensive) among the hold overs. We will probably also have Gainey acquisitions like Aebischer, Bonk, Downey, Johnson also fly the coup.

At some point in the next 12 months, the turnover rate will decrease substantially. The final core pieces will all be in place with core youngsters from the farm all knocking on the door. This organization will become very self sufficient and will rarely look to the outside for help.
I think many people underestimated the amount of work BG had to do. Savard was doing okay and acquiring some nice prospects but the team on the ice and management wasn't near where it should have been.

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08-01-2006, 04:13 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AH View Post
At some point in the next 12 months, the turnover rate will decrease substantially. The final core pieces will all be in place with core youngsters from the farm all knocking on the door. This organization will become very self sufficient and will rarely look to the outside for help.
And then you'll wake up

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Old
08-01-2006, 04:17 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pere Noel View Post
I recently had a peak at our roster for the previous season (2003-2004) and got curious as to whom Bob had let go, "lost", or traded.

As I made the count, I was astonished by the numbers : 67% of the players had been replaced within two seasons !

For the purpose of my calculations, I only counted players that had played 8 or more games in the 2003-2004 seasons. I found 20 players that are gone by now, and 10 remaining ones.

This came a bit a shock... and that drastic purge, ironically, contrasts severely with the constant critics of many, to the effect that Bob Gainey is not a "mover" and sits down and do nothing.

20 players that are gone:Savard desrves some credit for higgy, zhogi,
komi and Pleks. Gainey also purged Bulis and Zednik

1- Patrice Brisebois
2- Pierre Dagenais
3- Stephane Quintal
4- Andreas Dackell
5- Jim Dowd
6- Jan Bulis
7- Yanic Perreault
8- Richard Zednik
9- Donald Audette
10- Joe Juneau
11- Jason Ward
12- Niklas Sundstrom
13- Ron Hainsey
14- Chad Kilger
15- Gordie Dwyer
16- Karl Dykhuis
17- Darren Langdon
18- Marcel Hossa
19- Mathieu Garon
20- Jose Theodore

10 Players that are still here:

1- Alexei Kovalev
2- Saku Koivu
3- Mike Ribeiro
4- Michael Ryder
5- Steve Begin
6- Sheldon Souray
7- Mike Komisarek
8- Craig Rivet
9- Francis Bouillon
10- Andrei Markov

PS: Had Bob signed a UFA center, I suspect Ribeiro would have been gone as well. Just speculation from my part. That would have brought the number to 70% !

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Old
08-01-2006, 05:05 PM
  #33
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Gainey has filtered out almost all of the crap. The next two seasons are gonna be our best ones in awhile cause rather then working on getting rid of bad players, he'll be working to get good ones.

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Old
08-01-2006, 05:31 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Lalander977 View Post
and this is what he got back from those 20 guys:

David Aebischer (backup goalie)
Radek Bonk (4th line center)
Garth Murray (???)
That's it !!!

yeah Bob is a good mover...
Don't name Kovalev, Huet and Samsonov. Three KEY players on our team now.

Can't you look at things in perspective?

I consider Aebischer a good return for an overpaid and falling Theo. He is a very good insurance policy and he is not a backup he is a starting goaltender.

Radek Bonk, although having no offensive input whatsoever so far, is a beast on the PK. With the goalie depth Montreal had, moving Garon for Bonk and Huet was a calculated risk. Bonk could've turn out to be the big center Montreal needed and Huet could be a decent backup for Theo (WOW did he do better though).

Murray for Hossa = Grit and will vs laziness and skill. Pretty lateral move, but Bob knew that he didn't have place for Hossa on the top 2 lines and that is the only place where he could be effective. Murray on the other hand can fill in very nicely alongside Steve Bégin.

Bob Gainey is obviously a genius. F the haters.

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Old
08-01-2006, 05:49 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Lalander977 View Post
and this is what he got back from those 20 guys:

David Aebischer (backup goalie)
Radek Bonk (4th line center)
Garth Murray (???)
That's it !!!

yeah Bob is a good mover...
Does addition by subtraction mean anything to you?

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Old
08-01-2006, 06:26 PM
  #36
Pere Noel
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Originally Posted by TheHoser View Post
Does addition by subtraction mean anything to you?
A prime and recent example is Bulis...

Bob consciously let him go (he had plan that way before the end of the season) to open up some room for a valuable free agent.

His thinking was... why bother with Bulis as a second line winger... and the end result is that now we have Samsonov to take his spot. Samsonov scores more and knows how to pass as opposed to Bulis.

There we tons of those type of example two seasons ago... we are much better off with the replacements than the original pieces.

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Old
08-01-2006, 07:36 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by habfan4 View Post
Despite the number of player moves (and outside of the Theodore trade) I wouldn't categorize the moves as either drastic or unexpected. The purge, IMO signals the end of the table scrap days for the Habs, when they had to content themselves with retreads and cast-offs from other teams.

...also known as deadwieght. The only one left is dear Mike.

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Old
08-01-2006, 07:53 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Lalander977 View Post
Good points, like I said, Gainey HAD to clean the previous mistakes...
I don't think those players were mistakes. Andre Savard did a good job patching together the team after the huge mistakes by Serve Savard and Reggie Houle. We were competitive for several years when we shouldn't have been and we have AS to thank for that (and for the restocked farm system, even if they are all midgets).

Judging from the types of players Gainey is picking up, we're heading in the skilled, puck pursuit direction a la Dallas Stars - and much like what Gainey was as a player (surprise).

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Old
08-01-2006, 07:59 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pere Noel View Post
I recently had a peak at our roster for the previous season (2003-2004) and got curious as to whom Bob had let go, "lost", or traded.

As I made the count, I was astonished by the numbers : 67% of the players had been replaced within two seasons !

For the purpose of my calculations, I only counted players that had played 8 or more games in the 2003-2004 seasons. I found 20 players that are gone by now, and 10 remaining ones.

This came a bit a shock... and that drastic purge, ironically, contrasts severely with the constant critics of many, to the effect that Bob Gainey is not a "mover" and sits down and do nothing.

<SNIP>

PS: Had Bob signed a UFA center, I suspect Ribeiro would have been gone as well. Just speculation from my part. That would have brought the number to 70% !
Great post Pere Noel! I never made the calculation, but I admit being very surprised!

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08-01-2006, 08:27 PM
  #40
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Great post Pere Noel! I never made the calculation, but I admit being very surprised!
It certainly is impressive and it would be even more if we would bompare the team that Savard inherited.

Out of the list I would not consider Dagenais since BG acquired him. One name that I have not seen in the list is Begin whom BG acquired in his first waiver draft (not for people who think waiver contains crap only).

I think we will see that by year end his major achievements will be noted as follows:
Begin
Dandenault <---- And the media keeps saying he want to get rid of franco's
Kovalev
Samsonov
Johnson
These guys will all be part of the hearth and sole of this team

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08-01-2006, 09:05 PM
  #41
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I think that Bob is a guy that buys a car and keeps for about 10 yrs or till its no good anymore and then he gets rid of it.

He keeps players till their contract is up and lets em go, or trades them away for picks prospects or roster players. after he gets a good long look and attempt to make the player useful.

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Old
08-01-2006, 10:59 PM
  #42
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Gainey also get rid of minor league players like Ivanans, Vandy, Paul, Aitken, Michaud, Gavin Morgan, Philippe Plante, Larrivee, Matt Shasby, M-A Thinel, (Ryan Glenn and Scott Selig were released).

Dany Stewart, Andre Deveaux, and Alex Dulac-Lemelin were all not signed and their rights were given up as well.

I was glad to see him correct the mistakes of Vandermeer, Paul and Aitken, even Ivanans did next to nothing to Hamilton this past year.

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Old
08-01-2006, 11:08 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by montreal View Post
Gainey also get rid of minor league players like Ivanans, Vandy, Paul, Aitken, Michaud, Gavin Morgan, Philippe Plante, Larrivee, Matt Shasby, M-A Thinel, (Ryan Glenn and Scott Selig were released).

Dany Stewart, Andre Deveaux, and Alex Dulac-Lemelin were all not signed and their rights were given up as well.

I was glad to see him correct the mistakes of Vandermeer, Paul and Aitken, even Ivanans did next to nothing to Hamilton this past year.
I am not sure those were all "mistakes"... I was questioning last year, the purpose of signing all those tough guys... and maybe some of the answer was simply to fill roster spots and provide some stability to the club, and some veteran presence as stated this year by Level (bulldogs' coach):

From Hockeysfuture.com : http://hockeysfuture.com/article.php...readed&order=0
Lever said that the team would like to add a little more veteran presence to the roster, not to compete for ice time with the young guns, but rather to help them steady their aim.

“We’re hoping to get a couple of depth guys,” he said. “You’d like to sign some veterans so that you can have a solid core to help teach those kids.


However, them not being retained, is an indication that they would look for different veterans this time around.

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08-01-2006, 11:19 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by TheHoser View Post
Does addition by subtraction mean anything to you?
Agreed. Though I think what he meant was the assets we got in trade returns, most of the trades have been addition by subtraction. We have a lot of young players vying for roster spots, and as such we need to make room for them.

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08-01-2006, 11:31 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Pere Noel View Post
I am not sure those were all "mistakes"... I was questioning last year, the purpose of signing all those tough guys... and maybe some of the answer was simply to fill roster spots and provide some stability to the club, and some veteran presence as stated this year by Level (bulldogs' coach):

From Hockeysfuture.com : http://hockeysfuture.com/article.php...readed&order=0
Lever said that the team would like to add a little more veteran presence to the roster, not to compete for ice time with the young guns, but rather to help them steady their aim.

“We’re hoping to get a couple of depth guys,” he said. “You’d like to sign some veterans so that you can have a solid core to help teach those kids.


However, them not being retained, is an indication that they would look for different veterans this time around.
Vandy was a mistake cause he got a one way, so he was paid 500K to play in Hamilton. He did little to nothing other then spend his time in the box. Gainey needed to find some vets but the ones that were brought in were often benched, and when they did play I don't know what they were teaching the young guys. Paul was benched for close to 3 months, only played in 27 games all year. Aitken was a little better imo, not a bad vet to have he can throw some decent hits. I thought he killed Bourque's son, holy cow that was a big hit. Ivanas imo didn't do much of anything either.

I can understand that these guys were signed before Gainey got to see what the "new" NHL was going to be like. So he cleared them off the roster along with other minor leaguers.

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08-02-2006, 12:32 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Lalander977 View Post
and this is what he got back from those 20 guys:

David Aebischer (backup goalie)
Radek Bonk (4th line center)
Garth Murray (???)
That's it !!!

yeah Bob is a good mover...
you sir are an idiot.

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Old
08-02-2006, 01:08 AM
  #47
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Vandy was a mistake cause he got a one way, so he was paid 500K to play in Hamilton. He did little to nothing other then spend his time in the box. Gainey needed to find some vets but the ones that were brought in were often benched, and when they did play I don't know what they were teaching the young guys. Paul was benched for close to 3 months, only played in 27 games all year. Aitken was a little better imo, not a bad vet to have he can throw some decent hits. I thought he killed Bourque's son, holy cow that was a big hit. Ivanas imo didn't do much of anything either.

I can understand that these guys were signed before Gainey got to see what the "new" NHL was going to be like. So he cleared them off the roster along with other minor leaguers.
Yes. All those vets were guys with high penalties profiles... so maybe Bob wanted to fill the spots with those type of guys, or simply didn't know who could do the emforcer job if needed...

It will be interesting to see who he hires to fill those veteran spots next year.

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Old
08-02-2006, 10:24 AM
  #48
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Anyway, Bobby had to clean the mess caused by A. Savard... So it's quite normal he didn't got much in return for the 20 clowns...
Savard did not make the mess, that was Reggie Houle. The guys Savard brought in were step one of the improvement.

Houles guys <<<< Savard's Guys <<<< Gainey's team.

You can't build all at once. People won't give you greatness for Juha Lind or any of the guys Houle brought in, unless you can get another team to hire him as GM. You have to improve in stages, and right now we are taking the right steps forward.

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08-02-2006, 10:31 AM
  #49
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This level of turnover is quite common, especially over three seasons. There's nothing exceptional about it. You don't really notice it when it happens to other teams because teams usually keep their core players, but there's always of rotation of lower level players who are looking for jobs anywhere they can play.

The players can be broken down into a few categories:

Good players who needed to moved:
20- Jose Theodore
1- Patrice Brisebois

André Savard bandaids/busts:
3- Stephane Quintal
4- Andreas Dackell
7- Yanic Perreault
9- Donald Audette
10- Joe Juneau
12- Niklas Sundstrom
6- Jan Bulis
14- Chad Kilger
8- Richard Zednik

dime-a-dozen 4th liners
5- Jim Dowd
15- Gordie Dwyer
16- Karl Dykhuis
17- Darren Langdon
11- Jason Ward
2- Pierre Dagenais

Réjean Houle-era busts:
13- Ron Hainsey
18- Marcel Hossa
19- Mathieu Garon
Put Zednik and Bulis in the first list... In no way were they bandaids and they're still both good players. The trade that brought them to Montreal by Savard was one of the key moves that turned this franchise from the cellar to the playoffs. They still have a lot to offer their new teams. Perreault had a mini-revival in Nashville in production, but he was a band-aid for them. Plus, he was a veteran when he came here, he was obviously a guy plugging a spot until the team improved. Zed and Bulis were young and were expected to become core players, which they did in their 5 years as Habs.

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Old
08-02-2006, 10:40 AM
  #50
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Put Zednik and Bulis in the first list... In no way were they bandaids and they're still both good players. The trade that brought them to Montreal by Savard was one of the key moves that turned this franchise from the cellar to the playoffs. They still have a lot to offer their new teams. Perreault had a mini-revival in Nashville in production, but he was a band-aid for them. Plus, he was a veteran when he came here, he was obviously a guy plugging a spot until the team improved. Zed and Bulis were young and were expected to become core players, which they did in their 5 years as Habs.
Zednik and Bulis were not bandaids, but they certainly turned out to be busts, which is why they're gone. They were expected to be part of the core for many years and to compete alongside similarly-aged guys like Koivu, Ryder and Markov. They were not busts as players, but they were busts for this organization since they didn't fulfil that.

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