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What about Gionta?

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Old
03-17-2013, 06:26 PM
  #376
groovejuice
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Originally Posted by Stripper View Post
Are you seriously comparing Gionta to those guys? Litteraly all of those guys have gotten their jersey removed*... they brought so much more than Gionta ever will. If anything, Gionta will finish his contract here in Montreal IF Bergevin wants him to, otherwise, he's not part of the future.

*The only one I'm still wondering why he got his jersey removed is Gainey.
I have to believe you've never seen Bob Gainey play hockey, nor is it likely you know anything about his career a captain and player.

His retired sweater is very, very well deserved.

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03-17-2013, 06:27 PM
  #377
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Trading him NOW would be dumber than dumb.

This said, I'm satisfied he shouldn't be part of this team in the medium term, mainly because his on-ice play doesn't justify his salary. Meanwhile, Gionta is not a player that would hamper a team as whole. Best case, he'd be used as a support player on a 2nd line, not a key player on a first list.

3.5 Millions? I would have no problem with him. 5 is a little too much.

And please, let's not elevate him at the level of Richard, Beliveau and Laperriere. Those three players are, at the very worst, amongst the Top-50 players ever at their position, with Beliveau being a Top-5 center of all time.

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03-17-2013, 08:22 PM
  #378
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Gionta:

In the 2010 PO's he potted 8 goals in the first 2 rounds. He did is part nicely.

Last season he could not captain due to injuries... Habs finish in basement.

This year he is back... Habs challenge for 1st.

He is solid captain material... probably an excellent locker room diplomat too.

The Oilers could use a guy like that.

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03-17-2013, 09:43 PM
  #379
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Originally Posted by MXD View Post
Trading him NOW would be dumber than dumb.

This said, I'm satisfied he shouldn't be part of this team in the medium term, mainly because his on-ice play doesn't justify his salary. Meanwhile, Gionta is not a player that would hamper a team as whole. Best case, he'd be used as a support player on a 2nd line, not a key player on a first list.

3.5 Millions? I would have no problem with him. 5 is a little too much.

And please, let's not elevate him at the level of Richard, Beliveau and Laperriere. Those three players are, at the very worst, amongst the Top-50 players ever at their position, with Beliveau being a Top-5 center of all time.
Of course Beliveau was a generational talent, but Henri Richard in particular was not very productive his final years, but the club stuck with him as captain, and they were still competitive.

Today cap considerations play into it, but if Gionta holds up his play or close, I would suggest re-signing him at $3-4M for one year after this contract is up, depending on his exact production, and then renewing one year at a time. That's pretty safe, but if Gionta is willing to forego two or three year deals elsewhere, we should do it as a loyal gesture in return that is still justified by on-ice play.

Same with Markov. Annual renewals.

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03-17-2013, 09:46 PM
  #380
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Originally Posted by Born in 1909 View Post
Gionta:

In the 2010 PO's he potted 8 goals in the first 2 rounds. He did is part nicely.

Last season he could not captain due to injuries... Habs finish in basement.

This year he is back... Habs challenge for 1st.

He is solid captain material... probably an excellent locker room diplomat too.

The Oilers could use a guy like that.
Absolutely. The Oilers are a perfect example of a team FULL of talented youth but lacking the vets who can show them what it takes to win.

The Habs have both youth and vets, and people here want to dump a guy like Gionta so that, say, Danny Kristo has an easy path, or Patrick Holland. It's quite dangerous thinking, actually..

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03-17-2013, 11:12 PM
  #381
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Originally Posted by BaseballCoach View Post
Absolutely. The Oilers are a perfect example of a team FULL of talented youth but lacking the vets who can show them what it takes to win.

The Habs have both youth and vets, and people here want to dump a guy like Gionta so that, say, Danny Kristo has an easy path, or Patrick Holland. It's quite dangerous thinking, actually..
Shawn Horcoff.

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03-17-2013, 11:46 PM
  #382
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Originally Posted by Prallchengher View Post
Shawn Horcoff.
"Show them what it takes to win"

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03-18-2013, 02:35 AM
  #383
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I want you guys to be ****ing vicious.

Or ridiculously nice.

Either way.

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03-18-2013, 04:28 AM
  #384
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Born in 1909 View Post
Gionta:

In the 2010 PO's he potted 8 goals in the first 2 rounds. He did is part nicely.

Last season he could not captain due to injuries... Habs finish in basement.

This year he is back... Habs challenge for 1st.

He is solid captain material... probably an excellent locker room diplomat too.

The Oilers could use a guy like that.
If you want him so much we'll give him to you.

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03-18-2013, 04:31 AM
  #385
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Originally Posted by BaseballCoach View Post
A lot of people are taking this approach and I don't get it.

Marc Bergevin, and even Geoff Molson, have said they want to instill a winning culture, restore the tradition of the Montreal Canadiens.

Jean Beliveau slowed down a bit, then eventually retired. Henri Richard, the same. Yvan Cournoyer got hurt more towards the end, but retired a Hab. Bob Gainey too. Serge Savard retired then changed his mind to play for Winnipeg after the Habs moved on.

If the team succeeds in inculcating a winning culture, then I want the captain to stay. SInce we live in a cap world, that means him accepting a lower contract when this one runs out, if that is what it takes to have a proper cap hit. But so long as they are willing to price themselves at or below market, I would like to see Markov and Gionta stay on, year to year, for as long as both sides are happy.
Keeping Markov and Gionta doesn't mean inculcating a winning culture. It just means we keep our vets cause we like them. Richard, Cournoyer, Beliveau and Savard are legends of the game. Of course you keep them.

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03-18-2013, 04:42 AM
  #386
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Originally Posted by BaseballCoach View Post
A lot of people are taking this approach and I don't get it.

Marc Bergevin, and even Geoff Molson, have said they want to instill a winning culture, restore the tradition of the Montreal Canadiens.

Jean Beliveau slowed down a bit, then eventually retired. Henri Richard, the same. Yvan Cournoyer got hurt more towards the end, but retired a Hab. Bob Gainey too. Serge Savard retired then changed his mind to play for Winnipeg after the Habs moved on.

If the team succeeds in inculcating a winning culture, then I want the captain to stay. SInce we live in a cap world, that means him accepting a lower contract when this one runs out, if that is what it takes to have a proper cap hit. But so long as they are willing to price themselves at or below market, I would like to see Markov and Gionta stay on, year to year, for as long as both sides are happy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimota View Post
Keeping Markov and Gionta doesn't mean inculcating a winning culture. It just means we keep our vets cause we like them. Richard, Cournoyer, Beliveau and Savard are legends of the game. Of course you keep them.
Well, look at the bolded part. I said "if". So yes, if before Gionta's contract is up, he is the captain of a team that has shown a winning culture, I would want him to be re-signed.

Obviously, if the team fails, the urgency falls off.

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03-18-2013, 05:21 AM
  #387
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to Chicago for their 1st

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03-18-2013, 06:16 AM
  #388
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He is the captain on a winning team. So I guess he must be doing something good, at least off the ice. Sure I'd like him to produce more but meh.

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03-18-2013, 07:41 AM
  #389
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaseballCoach View Post
Well, look at the bolded part. I said "if". So yes, if before Gionta's contract is up, he is the captain of a team that has shown a winning culture, I would want him to be re-signed.

Obviously, if the team fails, the urgency falls off.
And last year he was captain of a 15th place team.

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03-18-2013, 07:54 AM
  #390
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimota View Post
And last year he was captain of a 15th place team.
And he missed most of the year, if you believe in that kind of stuff your argument may make the case that his value is actually even higher.

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03-18-2013, 08:15 AM
  #391
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As I posted earlier, no point in trading Gionta right now.

They have 1 regulation loss in their last 17 games even if Gionta is not being very productive on the ice, you don't want to change the chemistry in the room right now.

If they go on a losing streak before the deadline or in the off season would be the only two scenarios where he should be traded.

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03-18-2013, 08:42 AM
  #392
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Originally Posted by techfox View Post
As I posted earlier, no point in trading Gionta right now.

They have 1 regulation loss in their last 17 games even if Gionta is not being very productive on the ice, you don't want to change the chemistry in the room right now.

If they go on a losing streak before the deadline or in the off season would be the only two scenarios where he should be traded.
What is this nonsense about Gionta not being very productive on the ice. He is on pace for over 25 goals once again. A consistent winger scoring 25 while playing PK and top defensive missions is worth $4.5-$5.5 on the UFA market.

Ryan Clowe has ZERO goals, and he might fetch several million next year!!

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03-18-2013, 08:46 AM
  #393
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Originally Posted by BaseballCoach View Post
What is this nonsense about Gionta not being very productive on the ice. He is on pace for over 25 goals once again. A consistent winger scoring 25 while playing PK and top defensive missions is worth $4.5-$5.5 on the UFA market.

Ryan Clowe has ZERO goals, and he might fetch several million next year!!

He was worse than trash until the Leafs game in Toronto where he got the empty goal. Then he went on a great run by netting a half dozen or so goals. Since then he's back to his normal invisible self. If you think otherwise, you're obviously not watching the games.

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03-18-2013, 09:16 AM
  #394
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Originally Posted by techfox View Post
He was worse than trash until the Leafs game in Toronto where he got the empty goal. Then he went on a great run by netting a half dozen or so goals. Since then he's back to his normal invisible self. If you think otherwise, you're obviously not watching the games.
Give your head a shake......

You do realize that he has been playing against the opposition's top lines all season? I certainly don't find him invisible. If you only notice scoring chances then perhaps there are some games where you might find him invisible but for those who are paying a little closer attention to the finer points of the game.....there is plenty to notice.

Combine his strong defensive play with his leadership/focus that he brings to the team and his 25 goal pace and you certainly don't have a player who is "worse than trash"

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03-18-2013, 10:09 AM
  #395
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Originally Posted by techfox View Post
He was worse than trash until the Leafs game in Toronto where he got the empty goal. Then he went on a great run by netting a half dozen or so goals. Since then he's back to his normal invisible self. If you think otherwise, you're obviously not watching the games.
Just wow. There isn't a 25 goal scorer in the league who scores exactly 1 goal every 3.28 games. Everybody goes on streaks and droughts, relatively speaking.



From Captain Obvious:

"except for the games in which Gionta put the puck in the net, he has ZERO goals this year"

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03-18-2013, 10:21 AM
  #396
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He was playing great defensively, but he was trash on the 1st/2nd line and the PP where he was consistently getting minutes. He continues to get PP time even though he's struggled.

Noone is saying he hasn't played great defensively or great in a 3rd line role. I'm not sure where you guys are reading this. He's been TERRIBLE offensively and in the role that Therrien has him playing in 1st / 2nd line, expecting to produce offensively.

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03-18-2013, 11:22 AM
  #397
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Even when he signed with us three summers ago most of us werent expecting him to get back to his PPG old form. He's producing like he should IMO, as a 20-25 goals scorer.

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03-28-2013, 11:19 AM
  #398
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I'm probably gunna get s**t on for this, but am I the only one who would rather have Kostitsyn in our top 6 instead of Gionta?
Spare me the BS about Gio being a leader. He said himself he is a quiet leader, never gives talks in the dressing room and he likes to lead by example. I'm so sick of seeing him take that stupid slapshot into the goalies chest from the blueline as soon he gains the zone.

AKs defensive play was improving so much in his last year with us. Yea, he was inconsistent.. but I'd still rather have him over Gionta. I really feel like AK would have been even better under MT. (See Bourque)

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03-28-2013, 11:45 AM
  #399
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Oh and btw, Gionta was T-32nd in league forwards in the last 7 days for points.

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03-28-2013, 11:59 AM
  #400
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Originally Posted by scrowe21 View Post
I'm probably gunna get s**t on for this, but am I the only one who would rather have Kostitsyn in our top 6 instead of Gionta?
Spare me the BS about Gio being a leader. He said himself he is a quiet leader, never gives talks in the dressing room and he likes to lead by example. I'm so sick of seeing him take that stupid slapshot into the goalies chest from the blueline as soon he gains the zone.

AKs defensive play was improving so much in his last year with us. Yea, he was inconsistent.. but I'd still rather have him over Gionta. I really feel like AK would have been even better under MT. (See Bourque)
He had 2pts and was a +1 last night. What an oddly timed rant.

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