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The Night the Sky Fell | Hawks 8 - Stars 1

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Old
03-18-2013, 03:27 AM
  #51
Sir Psycho T
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Faceoffs are a crap shoot? In that case then everything in hockey is a crap shoot. Goalkeeping, defense, scoring all crap shoots.

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03-18-2013, 07:30 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Chelios View Post
I think the bigger issue than Bolland/Kruger/Shaw's ability to win faceoffs is Q's aversion to putting out Toews for all important draws. I have seen too many times Kruger taking important draws late in a period with Toews on the bench. I really don't think faceoffs would be much of an issue if we took advantage of the fact that we have one of the best guys in the league on the draw.

SO true, and it is moments like those, I question Q’s competence. It is a no-brainer to throw Toews out there to take a key faceoff in the final moment of a game. I have seen at least two occasions this season when Q fails to have 2 centermen on the ice in the same situation as above (and on one of those it was Frolik who ended up taking the key draw). He’s certainly not the most strategic coach in this league and it is these lapses in detail that simply shouldn’t happen at the NHL level.

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Old
03-18-2013, 07:50 AM
  #53
Chelios
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Originally Posted by BobbyJet View Post
SO true, and it is moments like those, I question Q’s competence. It is a no-brainer to throw Toews out there to take a key faceoff in the final moment of a game. I have seen at least two occasions this season when Q fails to have 2 centermen on the ice in the same situation as above (and on one of those it was Frolik who ended up taking the key draw). He’s certainly not the most strategic coach in this league and it is these lapses in detail that simply shouldn’t happen at the NHL level.
While I obviously agree that Q should be using Toews on all important draws (unless he is dead tired), I don't think we need to be questioning the coach of a 23-2-3 team that is playing some of the most dominant puck possession hockey I have ever seen. I may not agree with Q on this, but I don't question his competency based on it.

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Old
03-18-2013, 08:12 AM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chelios View Post
While I obviously agree that Q should be using Toews on all important draws (unless he is dead tired), I don't think we need to be questioning the coach of a 23-2-3 team that is playing some of the most dominant puck possession hockey I have ever seen. I may not agree with Q on this, but I don't question his competency based on it.
So....you don't try to get better even when on top? No reason to improve? I am sure that goes over well at companies like Apple (as well as sports teams) who are on top and and happy with the status quo onto.... just go to junkets and smoke stogies without worrying about the competition improving.

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Old
03-18-2013, 08:31 AM
  #55
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/\ This condensed season has worked well for Q so far. He has found some pretty good line combos and has left them intact for the most part. But that doesn’t mean his job is safe, imo. Mistakes like the above, and inconsistent specialty teams have a tendency to get magnified in the PO’s and it is the teams PO performance that will dictate his future with the Hawks. Harsh, but true, again, imo.

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Old
03-18-2013, 09:00 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by BobbyJet View Post
SO true, and it is moments like those, I question Q’s competence. It is a no-brainer to throw Toews out there to take a key faceoff in the final moment of a game. I have seen at least two occasions this season when Q fails to have 2 centermen on the ice in the same situation as above (and on one of those it was Frolik who ended up taking the key draw). He’s certainly not the most strategic coach in this league and it is these lapses in detail that simply shouldn’t happen at the NHL level.
Toews has taken 1.6 times as many faceoffs as the next guy (Bolland) on the team. I mean, you can only put him out there so much.

If anything, Sharp should be taking the faceoffs on the second line (when healthy) as he is far better than Bolland. Or, Bolland should be constantly cheating on faceoffs because Sharp can step in and is the better option.

As long as Toews is healthy, the team is going to survive at the dot. Though, think how great a puck possession team they would be if they had another competent guy at the dot. They are already the best team in the league in shot differential.

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Old
03-18-2013, 09:08 AM
  #57
Chelios
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Originally Posted by swanny View Post
So....you don't try to get better even when on top? No reason to improve? I am sure that goes over well at companies like Apple (as well as sports teams) who are on top and and happy with the status quo onto.... just go to junkets and smoke stogies without worrying about the competition improving.
Don't put words in my mouth. I specifically stated that I disagreed with Q on this issue. I am simply saying that I don't question his competency as an NHL head coach because of it. Bit of a difference between that and what you are trying to insinuate.

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Old
03-18-2013, 09:19 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Sir Psycho T View Post
Faceoffs are a crap shoot? In that case then everything in hockey is a crap shoot. Goalkeeping, defense, scoring all crap shoots.
When you have a faceoff, you have no idea who is going to win, and anybody can win the faceoff. Even if you have your best faceoff guy out there, he isn't guaranteed the win, that's what I meant by crap shoot.

People are taking it a bit further than I intended.

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Old
03-18-2013, 09:45 AM
  #59
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Crap shoot implies total chance, which simply isn't the case.

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Old
03-18-2013, 10:31 AM
  #60
Chelios
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkaholic View Post
When you have a faceoff, you have no idea who is going to win, and anybody can win the faceoff. Even if you have your best faceoff guy out there, he isn't guaranteed the win, that's what I meant by crap shoot.

People are taking it a bit further than I intended.
Is it really that hard to understand? Nobody is saying that having your best faceoff man out there guarantees a win. However, having your best faceoff man out there gives you a better chance at a win. If a guy with a career FO% of 60% takes 100 important draws, he will (on average) win 10 more over that period than a guy who is a career 50%.

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03-18-2013, 11:02 AM
  #61
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in anyone draw it may not master but over the course of a season with hundreds/thousands of faceoffs, it adds up

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Old
03-18-2013, 12:02 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by DisgruntledHawkFan View Post
Crap shoot implies total chance, which simply isn't the case.
Meh, people call the draft a crap shoot too, but it's not really chance when you break it down. I wasn't being as literal with that term as the rest of you are being.

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Old
03-18-2013, 02:36 PM
  #63
Bubba88
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long text in short: Hawkaholic wanted to say that even if Toews takes the important draws, he is not guaranteed to win them all the time

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Old
03-18-2013, 02:55 PM
  #64
xX Hot Fuss
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Can we devote an entire thread to faceoffs and limit any and all Faceoff discussion to that thread???

It would be really nice to not have to sift through this Faceoff garbage every. Single. Thread.

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Old
03-18-2013, 03:36 PM
  #65
Chelios
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Originally Posted by xX Hot Fuss View Post
Can we devote an entire thread to faceoffs and limit any and all Faceoff discussion to that thread???

It would be really nice to not have to sift through this Faceoff garbage every. Single. Thread.
Ha! Seconded.

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Old
03-18-2013, 04:40 PM
  #66
Hawkaholic
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long text in short: Hawkaholic wanted to say that even if Toews takes the important draws, he is not guaranteed to win them all the time
More or less, yes. I was just stating that even if we do acquire the best faceoff guy in the league and he takes a defensive zone faceoff in Game 7 OT that it doesn't guarantee anything. A guy like Kruger has a ~46% chance of beating him.

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Old
03-18-2013, 06:37 PM
  #67
Atomic Punk
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Face off. Roadhouse.

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Old
03-18-2013, 07:21 PM
  #68
Marotte Marauder
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Well maybe we could change the way the game of ice hockey is played, you know like road hockey where you inbound the ball after goals or when the ball rolls under Old Man Wilson's car.

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