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Datsyuk is the best 2 way player in the world

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Old
03-18-2013, 08:17 AM
  #526
Pavels Dog
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chelios View Post
Please explain to me how this is a flat out lie. You have people in every thread that compare these two saying that Datsyuk is much better than Toews offensively, which is simply inaccurate based on their offensive production over the last 3 seasons. How else do you explain this phenomenon other than Datsyuk's flashiness leads to people overestimating his offensive prowess?
This post breaks it down pretty well:
Quote:
Originally Posted by nik jr View Post
main thing, imo, is that datsyuk is a better offensive player, and controls the play more. when datsyuk is on the ice, his team usually has the puck more and outshoots the opposition by quite a lot.


i'll also say that in both '11 and '12, datsyuk got injured while he was one of the top scorers in the league, and then returned while still injured so his points per game numbers look worse.

when he broke his wrist in '11 vs vancouver, he was on pace for 99-100p (39p in 32 games).

when he injured his knee in a collision with toews in '12, he had 46p in 44 games, which was after a very poor start (he said he was "awful" at the start of the season). in the 26 games between line changes (bertuzzi returned from injury and was much better, and played with datsyuk and franzen) and datsyuk's knee injury, he had 35p, was +21 and was rarely scored on at ES.

datsyuk had 3a in his next game in buffalo in 13 minutes (players were rested because they had to play again the next day), and he played several more games with a decreasing level of play before getting knee surgery. after his return, his skating was still weak through the playoffs and in WC. his speed was lacking and he fell down a lot. he couldn't elude defenders or protect the puck as usual.
And you could.. you know... watch the games? Datsyuk has been dominant offensively this season, I promise you if he was passing the puck to Hossa instead of Abdelkader he'd have another 10 points. When healthy he is easily a PPG+ player..which Toews, so far in his career, isn't. You can't pretend anything before the last 3 season never happened, or that Datsyuk has declined.. the only thing that as declined about him is his ability to stay healthy, but it could be some bad luck as well.

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Old
03-18-2013, 08:21 AM
  #527
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Is Datsyuk the clutchest playoff performer?

Take away, and look pass the statistics and trophies. This guy gets it done in the playoffs, easily being the most effective playoff performer in all 3 zones.

His two way, and intangibles, make him the best all around player in the game.

mmm...just munching on my bowl of intangibles.

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Old
03-18-2013, 08:22 AM
  #528
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Can this guy just retire already? Way too many threads about him...

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03-18-2013, 08:22 AM
  #529
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P Kane and Briere gotta be up there as well imo, they show up when it counts

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03-18-2013, 08:22 AM
  #530
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Would I be the only one to say Zetteberg is "more clutch" in the playoffs?

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03-18-2013, 08:23 AM
  #531
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Post lock out? I'd say Briere.

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Old
03-18-2013, 08:32 AM
  #532
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Datsyuk's defense is underrated? You mean the guy that won 3 straight Selkes? Laughable. HF is actually ridiculous when it comes to the terms "overrated" and "underrated"

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Old
03-18-2013, 08:39 AM
  #533
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Looks like Pavel is the current trend on the HF

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Old
03-18-2013, 09:02 AM
  #534
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Syckle78 View Post
According to the history section all time rankings..


Number of European defenseman ranked in the top twenty: 2

Number of European goalies ranked in the top twenty: 3


Number of European forwards ranked in the twenty of the seventy best players of all time: 1

Please tell me more about this European bias.
Or maybe the posters in that section, who actually know about the game, are displaying some much-needed accuracy. Perhaps I should state that the majority of the European bias is on the main boards.

Although I am not sure about 3 goalies in the top twenty. I only have 2 in my ranking. Did they include a non-NHL goalie like Tretiak?

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03-18-2013, 09:06 AM
  #535
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pavels Dog View Post
This post breaks it down pretty well:

And you could.. you know... watch the games? Datsyuk has been dominant offensively this season, I promise you if he was passing the puck to Hossa instead of Abdelkader he'd have another 10 points. When healthy he is easily a PPG+ player..which Toews, so far in his career, isn't. You can't pretend anything before the last 3 season never happened, or that Datsyuk has declined.. the only thing that as declined about him is his ability to stay healthy, but it could be some bad luck as well.
Thank you for illustrating my frustration with this infatuation HFBoards has with Datsyuk. The poster you quoted basically says Datsyuk is better offensively because he "controls the play more", when he is on the ice his team "usually has the puck more" and "outshoots the opposition by quite a lot". Is there any statistics to back any of this up? Because if not, that is the definition of "intangibles" that are so often used to mock Toews.

The rest of the post was basically a summary of how injuries affected Datsyuk, which would be relavent if Toews was perfectly healthy over the last 3 seasons... which he most definitely was not. Toews, like Datsyuk, has had to battle through injuries and has had periods of dominance interrupted by injury. Fact is that they both have had some health issues over the past 3 seasons, and they have both put up almost identical numbers over that time.

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03-18-2013, 09:11 AM
  #536
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Quote:
Originally Posted by landesberg View Post
Toews has linemates.
Toews is playing with much better quality mates than Pavel.

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03-18-2013, 09:12 AM
  #537
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Originally Posted by Saku11 View Post
Wow.Didnt even realize the dude is 18 points behind Sidney Crosby. Kind of poor for the "best player in the game"
classic saku

well eastern vs western, tough to compare

but offensive, yeah crosby is better without any doubt

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Old
03-18-2013, 09:17 AM
  #538
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Originally Posted by Trizz View Post
classic saku

well eastern vs western, tough to compare

but offensive, yeah crosby is better without any doubt
Classic truth telling by me.East or West we are talking about 18 points.Not 4 points.Crosby is better.Period.

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Old
03-18-2013, 09:26 AM
  #539
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I wish Pitt-Det could play each other at some point this season - ideally in the SCF.

I've got a feeling an "average" Datsyuk line (Datsyuk-Filppula-Cleary) would clown Crosby's line with ease, even with an offensive liability like Cleary on the unit.

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03-18-2013, 09:28 AM
  #540
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Hard to argue against Datsyuk.

Toews is my favourite player, and is up there in the conversation. But ultimately I think you have to go with Datsyuk.

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Old
03-18-2013, 09:28 AM
  #541
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Yes...yes he is!

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03-18-2013, 09:29 AM
  #542
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phion Keneuf View Post
Can this guy just retire already? Way too many threads about him...
Who Crosby?

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Old
03-18-2013, 09:30 AM
  #543
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemsky_83 View Post
I wish Pitt-Det could play each other at some point this season - ideally in the SCF.

I've got a feeling an "average" Datsyuk line (Datsyuk-Filppula-Cleary) would clown Crosby's line with ease, even with an offensive liability like Cleary on the unit.
Zetterberg would play against Crosby like always, plus good luck containing him anyway with Lidstrom retired... that feeling you got, it's called homerism.

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Old
03-18-2013, 09:31 AM
  #544
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chelios View Post
Thank you for illustrating my frustration with this infatuation HFBoards has with Datsyuk. The poster you quoted basically says Datsyuk is better offensively because he "controls the play more", when he is on the ice his team "usually has the puck more" and "outshoots the opposition by quite a lot". Is there any statistics to back any of this up? Because if not, that is the definition of "intangibles" that are so often used to mock Toews.
This is what advanced stats are, particularly Corsi: http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stati...6+63+67#snip=f

Which if you look at that list and take into account quality of competition, you see that there are quite a few players who might have claim to the best two-way player right now. Anze Kopitar for one.

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03-18-2013, 09:35 AM
  #545
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Originally Posted by Human View Post
Zetterberg would play against Crosby like always, plus good luck containing him anyway with Lidstrom retired... that feeling you got, it's called homerism.
Why? He's got history on his side, so I don't think it's homerism until he's proven otherwise. Datsyuk and Zetterberg are probably the 2 best 2-way players of this generation and Zetterberg has been pretty damn good at frustrating Crosby

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03-18-2013, 09:36 AM
  #546
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juantimer View Post
This is what advanced stats are, particularly Corsi: http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stati...6+63+67#snip=f

Which if you look at that list and take into account quality of competition, you see that there are quite a few players who might have claim to the best two-way player right now. Anze Kopitar for one.
Riley Smith>Crosby...






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Old
03-18-2013, 09:37 AM
  #547
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Seriously though, what's up with all the Datsyuk threads? Seems like they just came outta nowhere all of a sudden

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Old
03-18-2013, 09:38 AM
  #548
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Toews belongs in what I call the "2nd tier" group of centers in the league - Thornton, Kopitar, Tavares, Spezza, Backstrom (not this year but in years past)

This group of forwards either have a great 2-way game (Thornton, Kopitar, Backstrom) or an offensive game that is ridiculous but still not at Crosby/Malkin/Stamkos level.

Tier 1 includes Crosby, Datsyuk, Stamkos, and Malkin. Stamkos and Malkin just based on decent 2-way play and unbelievable numbers almost make up the "1b" group. The other two a "1a". Head-to-head with otherwise equal linemates - I'd say Datsyuk shuts down Stamkos and Malkin with ease and comes out ahead in the matchup. This means he likely out-scores them if line matched through a game.

Crosby vs Datsyuk is an interesting one. They rarely see time together because Detroit (unfortunately for them) usually matches up a defensively inferior Zetterberg vs Crosby, likely because Zetterberg has a similar build to Sidney.

I'd like to see Datsyuk match up against Crosby for 2-3 games, just to observe what would happen with the match up game. I have a feeling that with equal linemates and equal defensive matchups (Kronwall-White, Letang-Orpik), Datsyuk would likely come out on top. He's just too good of a puck hound.

I'm basing this off of his performance vs other matchups similar to one that Crosby would present. It doesn't matter what the opposition's strength is, Datsyuk usually wins the matchups:
Size (Thornton, Getzlaf)
Skill (Kane, Sedin's, Malkin, Giroux)
Skating (Gaborik, Giroux)
2-way play (Kopitar, Toews).

With equally talented linemates, Datsyuk wins these match-ups. I think he could take Crosby-Kunitz-Dupuis if he was given a Filppula+Hudler set of wingers to play with.

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Old
03-18-2013, 09:39 AM
  #549
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanZ View Post
Seriously though, what's up with all the Datsyuk threads? Seems like they just came outta nowhere all of a sudden
He and the DRW just made a swing through Canada, this is purely fan reaction after they forgot how good he was.

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Old
03-18-2013, 09:42 AM
  #550
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanZ View Post
Seriously though, what's up with all the Datsyuk threads? Seems like they just came outta nowhere all of a sudden
Just trying to stay on pace with the 15 Crosby threads per day is all.

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