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12-22-2003, 05:51 AM
  #1
Mr Sakich
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oiler's and flames' budget

Bruce Dowbiggan (the author who wrote a book on famous hockey pucks) had an interesting blurb this morning in the calgary herald. The flames are 2 mill over budget and sutter has been told to get his house in order. Their budget stands at 37 mill right now and it seems that only way to get back to 35 mill is to trade iggy or else conroy + for prospects. It looks like the Flames may be headed for a bit of trouble.

On the other hand, I think the oilers are under budget for the year. I read where Lowe was given a 34 mill budget but we were only at 30.2 before the oates signing. Assuming they pay oates 1.5 for the year (pro-rated 2.0 mill for 75% of the season), then lowe can pick up a contract with 2.3 mill left on it. Assuming this happens at the 41 game mark (50% of the season left), Lowe could be adding a player with a 4.6 mill annual salary.

Gonchar?

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12-22-2003, 06:15 AM
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I dont see the Flames moving Iggy unless they get something phenomenal in return. If they were to make moves for budgetary reasons, I'd expect them to move a defensemen or two (see Werenka and Gauthier). Sutter is SUPER high on Dion Phaneuf, and they have a solid core of young guys on D, so the Flames will be looking for help up front.

As for the Oil, don't expect Gonchat anytime soon. If things don't turn around in January, Lowe will be busy on the phone handling inquiries about Moreau, Izzy, Georges and Smytty. Don't be surprised if Clarke comes calling about #94.

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12-22-2003, 06:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilfan39
I dont see the Flames moving Iggy unless they get something phenomenal in return. If they were to make moves for budgetary reasons, I'd expect them to move a defensemen or two (see Werenka and Gauthier). Sutter is SUPER high on Dion Phaneuf, and they have a solid core of young guys on D, so the Flames will be looking for help up front.

As for the Oil, don't expect Gonchat anytime soon. If things don't turn around in January, Lowe will be busy on the phone handling inquiries about Moreau, Izzy, Georges and Smytty. Don't be surprised if Clarke comes calling about #94.
Georges I can see. But I highly doubt the other three. If this team is going to tank it they will be doing it together. Moreau, Smyth and Izzy all signed for 2 or more years. If anyone goes I bet its Smith. He hasn't lived up to the contract he signed.

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12-22-2003, 07:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Obsessed
Georges I can see. But I highly doubt the other three. If this team is going to tank it they will be doing it together. Moreau, Smyth and Izzy all signed for 2 or more years. If anyone goes I bet its Smith. He hasn't lived up to the contract he signed.
How so? He's been our best defensman this year. Players who havn't lived up to their contracts is Smyth, Salo, Brewer, and York.

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12-22-2003, 07:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Sakich
Bruce Dowbiggan (the author who wrote a book on famous hockey pucks) had an interesting blurb this morning in the calgary herald. The flames are 2 mill over budget and sutter has been told to get his house in order. Their budget stands at 37 mill right now and it seems that only way to get back to 35 mill is to trade iggy or else conroy + for prospects. It looks like the Flames may be headed for a bit of trouble.

On the other hand, I think the oilers are under budget for the year. I read where Lowe was given a 34 mill budget but we were only at 30.2 before the oates signing. Assuming they pay oates 1.5 for the year (pro-rated 2.0 mill for 75% of the season), then lowe can pick up a contract with 2.3 mill left on it. Assuming this happens at the 41 game mark (50% of the season left), Lowe could be adding a player with a 4.6 mill annual salary.

Gonchar?
d'ohbiggen is a bit of a clown (but an equal opportunity clown, he did a hatchet job on the Oilers last week). but he's right, the Flames are a little over budget. The budget should be at 35 M, they would be there if they weren't paying Brad Werenka and Petr Buzek to be chronically head injured. Sutter has done an excellent job of bringing the budget back in order---I'm not sure anyone knows how much pressure he is under to chop the extra 2 M. For sure we won't be adding payroll...but as the team is clipping along I don't think a trade is imminent. An Iginla trade will happen IF Sutter doesn't think he can extend him for cheaper over the summer and IF we can get a live body or two to help us now. I doubt he'll be traded for prospects and prayers while we're in a playoff spot. Conory, OTOH is more likely to go if 2m needs to be trimmed. we're winning without him (and 2 other centers). Once Reinprecht and Betts are back, conroy could feel the heat

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12-22-2003, 07:45 AM
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dowbiggin thought that iggy's 8 mill contract next year is too big of an albatros for the flames. He only has 23 points so far this year which is the same as mike york and mikey started the year rehabbiing his thumb. I really like iggy but 8 mill is way too much for him. He is a great player with a very bad contract.

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12-22-2003, 07:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Mr Sakich
dowbiggin thought that iggy's 8 mill contract next year is too big of an albatros for the flames. He only has 23 points so far this year which is the same as mike york and mikey started the year rehabbiing his thumb. I really like iggy but 8 mill is way too much for him. He is a great player with a very bad contract.
hey ask any Flames fan, Iginla's overpriced. but you've just listed one example of where Dowbiggins sneaks in an untruth to make a case. Iginla doesn't make 8M, he makes 7m (well 7.5 m, but .5 is a signing bonus and he only needs to be qualified at 7m) . anyways its a minor point, but dowbiggin knows it, yet continually says 8m. why ? I don' t know.

23 points is terrible I"ll concur...but he's played the last 3 weeks with Yelle and Josh Green....even Sutter eventually realized that isn't very helpful...he scores at around a PPG when he plays with Reinprecht and Lombardi or McAmmond. anyways I'm prepared that he will be traded, like every other high priced player in Alberta before him

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12-22-2003, 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted by looooob
anyways I'm prepared that he will be traded, like every other high priced player in Alberta before him

sad but true.

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12-22-2003, 08:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by looooob
hey ask any Flames fan, Iginla's overpriced. but you've just listed one example of where Dowbiggins sneaks in an untruth to make a case. Iginla doesn't make 8M, he makes 7m (well 7.5 m, but .5 is a signing bonus and he only needs to be qualified at 7m) . anyways its a minor point, but dowbiggin knows it, yet continually says 8m. why ? I don' t know.

23 points is terrible I"ll concur...but he's played the last 3 weeks with Yelle and Josh Green....even Sutter eventually realized that isn't very helpful...he scores at around a PPG when he plays with Reinprecht and Lombardi or McAmmond. anyways I'm prepared that he will be traded, like every other high priced player in Alberta before him
I think that you've made some good points here but I'm not so sure anyone should be giving up on Iggy just yet. It is nice to see Calgary's good young prospects doing well at present, but come playoff time, should the Flames be fortunate enough to get there (and I hope and think they will), Jarome will show why he gets paid the big bucks. He still has game breaking capabilities when forced to play at an elevated level. Iggy is the kind of player whose skills were designed for the playoffs. Just my .5 cents (including signing bonus) worth opinion.


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12-22-2003, 08:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by future consideration
How so? He's been our best defensman this year. Players who havn't lived up to their contracts is Smyth, Salo, Brewer, and York.

I understand the dissapointment in Salo...granted he has not played well this year, or last for that matter.
Smyth, I'm willing to give him some more time on the wing to see what happens. He was terrible at center and even on the wing he's had his ups and downs.
Brewer...I believe he has not played too well this year, but I also feel that we missed him when he was hurt. Glad he's back.
As far as York goes...I agree terrible player, not living up to his expectations at all...he's only leading the team in scoring now...

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12-22-2003, 08:40 AM
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loob, as usual a good post. Here is where the confusion about iggy's salary comes from. According to nhlpa.com, iggy gets 7.5 mill of base salary. They do not report bonuses, just base salary. Next year, the flames have to offer an additional 10% to keep his rights so the salary will actually 8.25 mill.

I totally agree that iggy is awesome, but he is not worth 8 mill. The only guys I can think of that are worth that coin are forsberg, brodeur, mcinnis, pronger, bertuzzi, and naslund.

Iggy is in that next tier of great players who should be in the 4-5 range.

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12-22-2003, 08:41 AM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Sakich
loob, as usual a good post. Here is where the confusion about iggy's salary comes from. According to nhlpa.com, iggy gets 7.5 mill of base salary. They do not report bonuses, just base salary. Next year, the flames have to offer an additional 10% to keep his rights so the salary will actually 8.25 mill.

I totally agree that iggy is awesome, but he is not worth 8 mill. The only guys I can think of that are worth that coin are forsberg, brodeur, mcinnis, pronger, bertuzzi, and naslund.

Iggy is in that next tier of great players who should be in the 4-5 range.
I'm not even sure McInnis should be in that group...but as far as the others..for sure. Excellent points!

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12-22-2003, 08:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Sakich
loob, as usual a good post. Here is where the confusion about iggy's salary comes from. According to nhlpa.com, iggy gets 7.5 mill of base salary. They do not report bonuses, just base salary. Next year, the flames have to offer an additional 10% to keep his rights so the salary will actually 8.25 mill.

I totally agree that iggy is awesome, but he is not worth 8 mill. The only guys I can think of that are worth that coin are forsberg, brodeur, mcinnis, pronger, bertuzzi, and naslund.

Iggy is in that next tier of great players who should be in the 4-5 range.
untrue! you only have to offer 10% raises to players making below the league average. Iginla's qualifier would be 7.0

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12-22-2003, 09:07 AM
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Originally Posted by future consideration
How so? He's been our best defensman this year. Players who havn't lived up to their contracts is Smyth, Salo, Brewer, and York.
He signed a 2 year deal and stunk the first year. Sure he's played better this year but that doesn't mean we get any money back. I have always liked Gator but IMO he could be dealt.

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12-22-2003, 09:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Sakich
loob, as usual a good post. Here is where the confusion about iggy's salary comes from. According to nhlpa.com, iggy gets 7.5 mill of base salary. They do not report bonuses, just base salary. Next year, the flames have to offer an additional 10% to keep his rights so the salary will actually 8.25 mill.

I totally agree that iggy is awesome, but he is not worth 8 mill. The only guys I can think of that are worth that coin are forsberg, brodeur, mcinnis, pronger, bertuzzi, and naslund.

Iggy is in that next tier of great players who should be in the 4-5 range.
There are no NHL players period who are worth more than U$5,000,000.00 which converts to $6,750,000.00 Cdn. Earning $50,000.00 Cdn it would take you 135 years to earn that much money. Iggy makes that in just one year. Say he averages that for 10 years. It would take that $50,000.00 a year fan 1,350 years to earn that much CASH! Think hard about that then take two aspirins and get back to me.

That ridiculous reality is why NHL has to do something because the players are being grossly over paid now and their salaries must come down. GM's, agents, coaches, and even front office staff need to take pay cuts not just the players only. American owner must agree to take less profit too or the NHL is in real trouble. The fans who are paying the freight are fed-up and will leave in droves; it's already happening in the States. Let's just consider that Gravy Train Grinched and get on with creating a league that makes financial dollars and cents (sense)!

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12-22-2003, 02:23 PM
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Just to add to what Loooob said...

Yes, Iginla's qualifier would only be $7 million. It isnt required that he be offered a 10% raise.

Also, Dowbiggin is just about the biggest twit in Calgary media history. NEVER believe anything he says, especially when it revolves around Iginla. Dowbiggin has been trying to trade Iginla since the day the moron accepted the job in Calgary and came west.

That said, yeah, the Flames might have to cut payroll. The fact that the team looks good to make the postseason may change things, however. I wouldnt look to any major moves until nearer the trade deadline.

As far as the Oilers go, room under budget is irrelevent if the team doesnt pick up its play. If the team is still struggling, Edmonton's owners might just order the team not to add payroll, and minimize losses.

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12-22-2003, 03:17 PM
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Maybe I shouldn't have included York with the other three, but I still feel he could be doing better offensively. He gets paid good money and has to start scoring more goals. I like his play away from the puck but he needs to start leading offensively.

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12-22-2003, 05:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Sakich
Bruce Dowbiggan (the author who wrote a book on famous hockey pucks) had an interesting blurb this morning in the calgary herald. The flames are 2 mill over budget and sutter has been told to get his house in order. Their budget stands at 37 mill right now and it seems that only way to get back to 35 mill is to trade iggy or else conroy + for prospects. It looks like the Flames may be headed for a bit of trouble.

On the other hand, I think the oilers are under budget for the year. I read where Lowe was given a 34 mill budget but we were only at 30.2 before the oates signing. Assuming they pay oates 1.5 for the year (pro-rated 2.0 mill for 75% of the season), then lowe can pick up a contract with 2.3 mill left on it. Assuming this happens at the 41 game mark (50% of the season left), Lowe could be adding a player with a 4.6 mill annual salary.

Gonchar?
That would be sweet. With the likehood of Salo and Smith not being Oilers next year, do you think the Edmonton could sign this guy to a long term contract? Even at 4 or 4.5 million I think Gonchar could be a good investment for the Oil. IMO we need an elite player in order to compete in this division.

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12-22-2003, 06:25 PM
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I am sure I read in other places

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snakeeye
Just to add to what Loooob said...

Yes, Iginla's qualifier would only be $7 million. It isnt required that he be offered a 10% raise.

Also, Dowbiggin is just about the biggest twit in Calgary media history. NEVER believe anything he says, especially when it revolves around Iginla. Dowbiggin has been trying to trade Iginla since the day the moron accepted the job in Calgary and came west.

That said, yeah, the Flames might have to cut payroll. The fact that the team looks good to make the postseason may change things, however. I wouldnt look to any major moves until nearer the trade deadline.

As far as the Oilers go, room under budget is irrelevent if the team doesnt pick up its play. If the team is still struggling, Edmonton's owners might just order the team not to add payroll, and minimize losses.
That the Flames are over budget and I know rumours have flown that they have not completed trades because they would have to dump salary first.

So they must be topped out when it comes to salary.

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12-22-2003, 08:38 PM
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Dowboy has reported Iginlia's salary takes up 22 or 23% of the Flames payroll. When Iggy is going, he is a special player who combines elite skill with physical presence. And what a shot! But not worth $8 million.

The Flamers should trade Iginlia for two or three young NHL players. They need scoring depth and if added they will imo make the playoffs. Iggy has been challenged by Sutter to be a leader and has been struggling with this added responsibility. Pawn off Iginlia and force the trading partner to take Turek in the package. Add three young NHL players and this team will compete.

As an Oiler fan I am choking on these words. However credit where credit is due, Sutter is building a solid, physical club. (Loved the Warrener pick up). He is also managing the payroll consumed to a large degree by a top-tier player ... exactly the type of player Edmonton has been missing for so long.

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12-22-2003, 10:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Behind Enemy Lines
Dowboy has reported Iginlia's salary takes up 22 or 23% of the Flames payroll. When Iggy is going, he is a special player who combines elite skill with physical presence. And what a shot! But not worth $8 million.

The Flamers should trade Iginlia for two or three young NHL players. They need scoring depth and if added they will imo make the playoffs. Iggy has been challenged by Sutter to be a leader and has been struggling with this added responsibility. Pawn off Iginlia and force the trading partner to take Turek in the package. Add three young NHL players and this team will compete.

As an Oiler fan I am choking on these words. However credit where credit is due, Sutter is building a solid, physical club. (Loved the Warrener pick up). He is also managing the payroll consumed to a large degree by a top-tier player ... exactly the type of player Edmonton has been missing for so long.
While I agree, I think that Sutter would have to really exhaust all chances of Iginla signing for cheaper in an extension. He has been pushing it since the summer according to all rumours. I doubt it, but if he gets him for 5 mill I think they could manage that, especially if they could chop another player or two to make up the rest of the budget.

Personally I hope the retard owners here just suck it up 'til the CBA gets dealt with. I mean there rich enough to just deal with it and not ruin this team, and just give Sutter time. I mean, as sickening as Iginla earning say 10 mill a year for ten years, the sicker thing is that it wouldn't make that big a dent in these guys wallets, and the fact they get part of the payroll payed for from revenue, I hope they just don't make Sutter do something stupid.

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12-23-2003, 12:00 AM
  #22
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While I agree, I think that Sutter would have to really exhaust all chances of Iginla signing for cheaper in an extension. He has been pushing it since the summer according to all rumours. I doubt it, but if he gets him for 5 mill I think they could manage that, especially if they could chop another player or two to make up the rest of the budget.

Personally I hope the retard owners here just suck it up 'til the CBA gets dealt with. I mean there rich enough to just deal with it and not ruin this team, and just give Sutter time. I mean, as sickening as Iginla earning say 10 mill a year for ten years, the sicker thing is that it wouldn't make that big a dent in these guys wallets, and the fact they get part of the payroll payed for from revenue, I hope they just don't make Sutter do something stupid.
One key thing is that they only signed Iginla for 2 years.. while other teams are stuck with their financial draining Yashins or Jagrs for eternity, Calgary might be able to convince Iginla to take a paycut and remain with the team. As an Oiler fan, I hope he asks for $10 million/season next year.. as a hockey fan, I hope he signs for less and stays as the face behind the Flames

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12-23-2003, 05:12 AM
  #23
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boy, the parrallels between calgary and edmonton get scarier every day. Yesterday, Sutter said that iggy was a perenial 30 goal scorer who had one 50 goal year. He said that it is unreasonable for fans to expect 50 as he is on pace for 30 this year and that is what he does every year.

Where did we hear this before? Lowe said that he thought that comrie was a second line centre in this league and it is unreasonable to expect first line minutes/performance/salary form mike. That was the big philosophical difference that mike had with the org. It ended with mike not swallowing his pride and demanding a trade to prove himself elsewhere.

I wonder how iggy will react to sutter's opinion. If he really is only a 30 goal guy, then he is grossly overpaid.

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12-23-2003, 08:40 AM
  #24
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Originally Posted by Mr Sakich
boy, the parrallels between calgary and edmonton get scarier every day. Yesterday, Sutter said that iggy was a perenial 30 goal scorer who had one 50 goal year. He said that it is unreasonable for fans to expect 50 as he is on pace for 30 this year and that is what he does every year.

Where did we hear this before? Lowe said that he thought that comrie was a second line centre in this league and it is unreasonable to expect first line minutes/performance/salary form mike. That was the big philosophical difference that mike had with the org. It ended with mike not swallowing his pride and demanding a trade to prove himself elsewhere.

I wonder how iggy will react to sutter's opinion. If he really is only a 30 goal guy, then he is grossly overpaid.
I don't know how Iginla will react, but it fits with Sutters M.O. He publically calls out/challenges his players alot. I don't know how this plays with players in the long term (ie after 5 years in San Jose) but the players seem to be buying in so far. given that Sutter is only going to coach this team for one or two years I don't think he'll ruin his shelf life.

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