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Old
03-17-2013, 03:30 PM
  #401
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Originally Posted by JPG View Post
Even in years were we've had good goalies and good defense we haven't done anything because we can't score goals. They should rename the team the Florida CantScores. I am just SO TIRED of it. Also, if you actually have a good offense you keep the pressure on the other side, reducing chances against. In addition to that, if you play with the lead you can then change your playstyle to more conservative as the game goes on, again reducing chances against. A huge part of allowing 3.71 goals against is that we are always playing from behind. That won't change if we keep a crap forward core.
You know what else is depressing..

1. Outshoot / outchance / outplay your opponent
2. Can't score
3. Give up 3 goals on 6 shots against
4. Lose the game

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03-17-2013, 03:44 PM
  #402
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I've watched 95% of the Winterhawks games this season. Jones is incredibly talented and incredibly SOFT. He doesn't play with an edge and it is very frustrating. He could dominate physically but he doesn't for some reason. He's going to have his lunch handed to him at the higher levels until he develops some toughness.

Someone wrote this over on the Seth Jones thread in the prospects board.

Means absolutely nothing, but it's kind of disappointing to hear such a thing about a potential future HOFer

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03-17-2013, 03:50 PM
  #403
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Another scenario:

A guy like Drouin / MacKinnon / Barkov could drop to TB..

I'm gonna the minute I see that on draft day.

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03-17-2013, 04:11 PM
  #404
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Originally Posted by Rick Rypien Farts View Post
I've watched 95% of the Winterhawks games this season. Jones is incredibly talented and incredibly SOFT. He doesn't play with an edge and it is very frustrating. He could dominate physically but he doesn't for some reason. He's going to have his lunch handed to him at the higher levels until he develops some toughness.

Someone wrote this over on the Seth Jones thread in the prospects board.

Means absolutely nothing, but it's kind of disappointing to hear such a thing about a potential future HOFer
That sounds alot like what they wrote about Bouwmeester before he was drafted

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03-17-2013, 04:30 PM
  #405
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Originally Posted by J17 Vs Proclamation View Post
None of that is really going to be in the minds of the scouting staff. They'll simply relay a collective opinion on the "best player available".

Wins equal success. Sure, entertaining wins are great, but you plan for wins over entertainment, and if entertainment comes with it ... great.

They'll take whoever they think is the best player. Surely there is only so much inane speculation people can make over this? After awhile, pretty much everything that can be said has been said.

Maybe if you wished to approach it from a more analytical stand point, it would be of some interest. Impact Forwards tend to be selected higher in the draft, whereas impact defenseman are more common slightly lower. I also personally believe it's easier to find good solid defenseman than it is to find good scoring Forwards. Not that particular pertains to this situation. As a more general rule, i think it's easier to coach and find a D-core that can be reliable and effective than it is with Forward counter-parts. It's easier to coach defense than it is offense. Again, though, when we're talking about elite elite prospects ; how much of that is relevant?

The only thing i will say about Jones, is whilst he is a brilliant prospect and a viable #1 candidate, he's being proclaimed to early. I'd want to wait 4-5 years before believing he really is ahead of any other recent young defensive prospects.
The scouting staff doesn't have the ultimate say - Tallon does.

If you want to complain about inane speculation, then perhaps you shouldn't be visiting a hockey forum and contributing to said inane speculation.

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03-17-2013, 04:39 PM
  #406
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While I also think along those lines and think scoring is more exciting than trying to prevent scoring, one thing to bear in mind. The Atlanta Thrashers had Kovalchuk and Heatley and then Kovalchuk and Hossa. Lot of good it did them. Just saying.
As an above poster alluded to, we don't want to be Nashville - a solid defensive team. That will make the playoffs but will not sell tickets in SoFla.

As for Atlanta, having Bure in Florida was a big failure also - same reason. You need to build a team around your scorers. The Thrashers (and ex-Panthers) never managed to do that. We already have those complementary players in the system.

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03-17-2013, 04:56 PM
  #407
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Originally Posted by angry_treefrog View Post
As an above poster alluded to, we don't want to be Nashville - a solid defensive team. That will make the playoffs but will not sell tickets in SoFla.

As for Atlanta, having Bure in Florida was a big failure also - same reason. You need to build a team around your scorers. The Thrashers (and ex-Panthers) never managed to do that. We already have those complementary players in the system.
One of those complimentary players could be this guy..


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03-17-2013, 05:13 PM
  #408
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Quote:
Originally Posted by angry_treefrog View Post
As an above poster alluded to, we don't want to be Nashville - a solid defensive team. That will make the playoffs but will not sell tickets in SoFla.

As for Atlanta, having Bure in Florida was a big failure also - same reason. You need to build a team around your scorers. The Thrashers (and ex-Panthers) never managed to do that. We already have those complementary players in the system.
The point is that a winning team sells. It doesn't particularly matter what style you play, if your team sucks, people in most markets (and especially Florida) won't watch.

Nashville are an excellent team. That would sell. Sure, a high scoring team like the Penguins might be more appealing, but i thikn you'll find winning is far more important than anything else. Tight sound hockey that wins should sell.

Put it this way, if Florida had the last 5-6 years of what Nashville has had, and they wern't selling tickets well ... not a great market. I'm sympathetic to our market from an emotional and objective stand point ; we've outsucked Paris Hilton through her teenage years, and we exist within a relatively new and underdeveloped market. Still, to say nashville type success won't work, or rather we need winning dominant hockey combined with a high octane offensive style to succeed (I.e the stars to align) ... yupppp, that ain't so swag.

None of the above should have any impact on who we select.

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Old
03-17-2013, 06:05 PM
  #409
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Lets say we did draft Jones, how would that affect Guds position on the team moving forward? We drafted him 3rd overall a couple of years ago. I dont see Guds and Jones being a pairing because they both have a right-handed shot. I understand we need help on D but since we picked Guds so high and the organization is very high on him, I can't really see the two of them both being part of our D. It just seems a bit awkward lol....

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03-17-2013, 06:41 PM
  #410
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Originally Posted by angry_treefrog View Post
As an above poster alluded to, we don't want to be Nashville - a solid defensive team. That will make the playoffs but will not sell tickets in SoFla.

As for Atlanta, having Bure in Florida was a big failure also - same reason. You need to build a team around your scorers. The Thrashers (and ex-Panthers) never managed to do that. We already have those complementary players in the system.
Blueline looks pretty weak to me. Campbell, for all his offensive ability, has been a disaster in his own end, Kulikov is inconsistent, Gudbranson, so far, has been good for big hits and not very much else. And those are our 3 best defensemen who figure to be around awhile.

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Old
03-17-2013, 07:23 PM
  #411
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Originally Posted by J17 Vs Proclamation View Post
The point is that a winning team sells. It doesn't particularly matter what style you play, if your team sucks, people in most markets (and especially Florida) won't watch.

Nashville are an excellent team. That would sell. Sure, a high scoring team like the Penguins might be more appealing, but i thikn you'll find winning is far more important than anything else. Tight sound hockey that wins should sell.

Put it this way, if Florida had the last 5-6 years of what Nashville has had, and they wern't selling tickets well ... not a great market. I'm sympathetic to our market from an emotional and objective stand point ; we've outsucked Paris Hilton through her teenage years, and we exist within a relatively new and underdeveloped market. Still, to say nashville type success won't work, or rather we need winning dominant hockey combined with a high octane offensive style to succeed (I.e the stars to align) ... yupppp, that ain't so swag.

None of the above should have any impact on who we select.
Winning is important, but all things being equal a team that wins games 4-2 will draw better than a team winning 2-1.

People talk about BPA as though scouting were as accurate as stats on EA sports. You are talking about 18 year old children. Unless you have a no-brainer generational talent at the top of the draft, there is some uncertainty.

If Jones is clearly head and shoulders better than the others - then, sure you take him. That's not really the case though. These guys are close - and if it's close, I think you err on the side of the scorer.

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03-17-2013, 07:28 PM
  #412
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Originally Posted by Georgia Panther View Post
Blueline looks pretty weak to me. Campbell, for all his offensive ability, has been a disaster in his own end, Kulikov is inconsistent, Gudbranson, so far, has been good for big hits and not very much else. And those are our 3 best defensemen who figure to be around awhile.
A strong top 6 keeps play in the offensive zone and makes team defense look a lot better.

Furthermore, I think those 3 are much better than they are showing right now.

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03-17-2013, 07:30 PM
  #413
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Yeah, well said, Frog.

I still think taking Jones means saying goodbye to Kuli.

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Old
03-17-2013, 07:40 PM
  #414
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It comes down to this - if you are the Panthers and there is an opportunity to grab a franchise 1C - you do it. Period.

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03-17-2013, 07:42 PM
  #415
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Originally Posted by angry_treefrog View Post
It comes down to this - if you are the Panthers and there is an opportunity to grab a franchise 1C - you do it. Period.
Agreed, thinking the only way we get Jones is if McKinnon isn't available and management is more sold on him.

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03-17-2013, 07:47 PM
  #416
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Agreed, thinking the only way we get Jones is if McKinnon isn't available and management is more sold on him.
Yup... although I could see Tallon developing a man-crush on Drouin as his Patrick Kane v2.0.

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03-17-2013, 07:49 PM
  #417
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naturally the one year we are going to get the 1st overall pick the odds are stacked against us. 25% might as well be zero.

Drouin or Jones at 2nd assuming worse possible scenario?

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03-17-2013, 08:07 PM
  #418
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Personally I'll rather us get the second pick and have the Jones vs MacKinnon decision made for us.

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03-17-2013, 08:09 PM
  #419
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Personally I'll rather us get the second pick and have the Jones vs MacKinnon decision made for us.
Odds are (75%) that if we finish last that is exactly what will happen. Hopefully Jones is off the board by then.

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03-17-2013, 08:53 PM
  #420
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naturally the one year we are going to get the 1st overall pick the odds are stacked against us. 25% might as well be zero.

Drouin or Jones at 2nd assuming worse possible scenario?
Not an easy one.

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03-17-2013, 08:58 PM
  #421
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The only reason I would even consider drafting Jones is if there's no legitimate offensive star prospect available, AND someone is willing to trade us a proven elite scorer (not some crappy second line wannabe) for him. We don't need more defense (at least, it is most definitely not priority #1). As bad as you think our defense has been, our top line from last year is 2/3 injured and has accounted for a whopping combined 26 points this season.

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03-17-2013, 09:31 PM
  #422
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I vote for Mackinnon. Gotta do it.

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03-17-2013, 09:39 PM
  #423
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Max Domi please, from the four games ive seen, he was all i was hoping to see. I actually wamted to tank this year because of him.

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03-18-2013, 12:47 PM
  #424
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Why isn't anyone considering Barkov if we miss out on Mackinnon? (which we probably will)

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03-18-2013, 12:52 PM
  #425
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Why isn't anyone considering Barkov if we miss out on Mackinnon? (which we probably will)
Lots of possible other good choices. We could literally pick MacKinnon, Jones, Drouin or Barkov and have it be a great pick.

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