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2013 NHL Trade Deadline Thread (CBJ deadline discussion here)

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Old
03-18-2013, 10:10 AM
  #251
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I am probably the only one here who feels this way, but I believe that Aucoin and Prospal are worth more to us in the room vs. what their value would be in a trade. Best case, we get maybe a 3rd or 4th round pick for either of these guys? I think their value to the room is worth more.

With that said, we have so much depth on the blue line that I wouldn't be opposed to seeing us move Aucoin even if it is for a latter round pick. If we could get as high as a 2nd round pick for Vinny I would consider it, but personally I would like to hang on to him.

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03-18-2013, 10:23 AM
  #252
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Originally Posted by ernmorris View Post
I am probably the only one here who feels this way, but I believe that Aucoin and Prospal are worth more to us in the room vs. what their value would be in a trade. Best case, we get maybe a 3rd or 4th round pick for either of these guys? I think their value to the room is worth more.

With that said, we have so much depth on the blue line that I wouldn't be opposed to seeing us move Aucoin even if it is for a latter round pick. If we could get as high as a 2nd round pick for Vinny I would consider it, but personally I would like to hang on to him.
This may be the biggest hurdle for the upcoming deadline. The reality is if both players are not expected back next year it's worth getting an asset for them (if they are willing to move). I think Vinny if more valuable than Aucoin and don't WANT to see him go but...

Does management think they have enough strong personalities in the room to keep the lockerroom tight yet on edge and hungry. I would say based on who was brought in (Dubi, Wiz, JJ, Dorse, Foligno et. al.) we may have enough veteran presence and work ethic in the room to allow these two to go. I hate to see moves made to break up the band but sometimes the long term takes ownership and tough moves need made even at the risk of a short term step back (on the ice). I"m sure all on ice and off ice contributions will be considered especially given the recent turn around on this home stand.

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03-18-2013, 11:05 AM
  #253
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Originally Posted by ernmorris View Post
I am probably the only one here who feels this way, but I believe that Aucoin and Prospal are worth more to us in the room vs. what their value would be in a trade. Best case, we get maybe a 3rd or 4th round pick for either of these guys? I think their value to the room is worth more.

With that said, we have so much depth on the blue line that I wouldn't be opposed to seeing us move Aucoin even if it is for a latter round pick. If we could get as high as a 2nd round pick for Vinny I would consider it, but personally I would like to hang on to him.
I would have agreed with you last year, but I think we would be okay without them now. I don't think we are in the process of changing our culture anymore. I think we have changed it.

I would be okay if we kept them, but I think a couple of extra 2nds and/or 3rds would be big at the draft. Those could help us move up a couple of spots in the 1st or 2nd round to get the player we really want. Or they could help us move up from the 3rd to the 2nd or the 2nd to the 1st.

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03-18-2013, 11:25 AM
  #254
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I know some are excited about us being 3 points out of the playoff race, but the goal of this orginIzation should not be squaking in the playoffs, so we need to look long term, anything we can move this year to get on the path to challenging for a cup, I'm all for. That means if we can get an asset for Prospal, or Aucoin, or Umberger, its a no brainer. Our team this year is fools gold. Yes we have been competitive all season, but Bob has been playing out of his mind to make this run. We still have no scoring, and none of our prospects on the horizon, minus Jenner that could help in this area. Look at the year Mason won the calder, and the results for the next 2 years. If Bob isnt all world, we are a bottom 5 team. It figures , that the one year, we could cement our franchise for a long , long time, with 3 picks in the first round, that we will work ourselves out of being better for the long term, by missing out on a Mckinnon, or a Jones. I dont care how good Jarmo may be at identifying talent, its been proven, year after year, that the majority or dominant players come in those first 2 picks. I'm not trying to be negative, because its fun to see the culture changing, I was just hoping for the culture to change with hard fought losses, with just enough wins to get a great pick.

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03-18-2013, 11:34 AM
  #255
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Originally Posted by Jacks Johnson View Post
That means if we can get an asset for Prospal, or Aucoin, or Umberger, its a no brainer.
Because it's impossible the FO has identified any of these three players, Umberger specifically, as part of the team's core moving forward?

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03-18-2013, 12:23 PM
  #256
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Meh, whatever. Move Aucoin and/or Proposal or not. No big deal. We're kind of making it out to be bigger than what it is. When I say this, I mean it from an asset return perspective.

Frankly I wouldn't look to move Prospal at all.

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03-18-2013, 01:02 PM
  #257
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Because it's impossible the FO has identified any of these three players, Umberger specifically, as part of the team's core moving forward?
Can you tell me in what way Umberger is part of the core?

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03-18-2013, 01:30 PM
  #258
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Originally Posted by RDriesenUD View Post
Can you tell me in what way Umberger is part of the core?
Age and leadership I would guess... If Keek decides to sell and could find a sucker for his Umberger's contract and a top pick or propect he should do it... As for Prospal, how can the CBJ trade away their best scorer? (sort of sarcasm but true). Besides, he's the letterless captain and team leader.. As for Aucoin, there's a good chance he gets moved if we are sellers, he's good for a 5th rounder at minimum...

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03-18-2013, 01:33 PM
  #259
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Frankly I wouldn't look to move Prospal at all.

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03-18-2013, 02:02 PM
  #260
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Originally Posted by RDriesenUD View Post
Can you tell me in what way Umberger is part of the core?
By asking me for my opinion you miss my point. My opinion doesn't matter. And we don't know what those whose opinions do matter think about RJ, or any of those players.

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03-18-2013, 03:01 PM
  #261
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Originally Posted by Robert View Post
Age and leadership I would guess... If Keek decides to sell and could find a sucker for his Umberger's contract and a top pick or propect he should do it... As for Prospal, how can the CBJ trade away their best scorer? (sort of sarcasm but true). Besides, he's the letterless captain and team leader.. As for Aucoin, there's a good chance he gets moved if we are sellers, he's good for a 5th rounder at minimum...
Why does every trade have net a "top pick/prospect."

I doubt anyone would give that for Umberger. That said, we've seen much worse contracts than his get moved so I think an RJ trade is a possibility.

As far as RJ's leadership - his permanent "A" is gone and it doesn't look like Jack or Dubie's A's are moving any time soon.


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03-18-2013, 03:03 PM
  #262
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My opinion is, I would be pretty disappointed to see Fedor moved. My feeling is he's fills an important role on the team.

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03-18-2013, 03:06 PM
  #263
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Originally Posted by Jacks Johnson View Post
I know some are excited about us being 3 points out of the playoff race, but the goal of this orginIzation should not be squaking in the playoffs, so we need to look long term, anything we can move this year to get on the path to challenging for a cup, I'm all for. That means if we can get an asset for Prospal, or Aucoin, or Umberger, its a no brainer. Our team this year is fools gold. Yes we have been competitive all season, but Bob has been playing out of his mind to make this run. We still have no scoring, and none of our prospects on the horizon, minus Jenner that could help in this area. Look at the year Mason won the calder, and the results for the next 2 years. If Bob isnt all world, we are a bottom 5 team. It figures , that the one year, we could cement our franchise for a long , long time, with 3 picks in the first round, that we will work ourselves out of being better for the long term, by missing out on a Mckinnon, or a Jones. I dont care how good Jarmo may be at identifying talent, its been proven, year after year, that the majority or dominant players come in those first 2 picks. I'm not trying to be negative, because its fun to see the culture changing, I was just hoping for the culture to change with hard fought losses, with just enough wins to get a great pick.
Vinny should not be moved. Lets say we got a 3rd round pick for him. The odds of that turning into a roster player who ends up as productive or meaningful to our team as Vinny is slim.

We already have 3 first round picks. We are in great shape for the draft as is, why trade a heart and soul guy like Vinny for a pick? I am fine with an RJ or Aucoin deal, but neither is going to net us some major return.

The idea that by keeping Vinny we are hurting our future is ridiculous. If anything, having a guy like Vinny is helping the future by rubbing off on our young guys. I say give him a 1 year extension.

As far as needing a top pick like Jones...remember Ryan Murray? Remember Ryan Johansen? It's not like we don't have guys with top pick pedegrees. Erixon and Moore were also first rounders.

Jordan Eberle was taking like 22nd, he's better than Hall or Nugent-Hopkins.


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03-18-2013, 03:19 PM
  #264
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My opinion is, I would be pretty disappointed to see Fedor moved. My feeling is he's fills an important role on the team.
My personal hatred for Tyutin blinds me, but I just don't see any way the new regime keeps all three of Jack, Tyutin, and Wiz. Three big money long term contracts from the Howson era with Moore/Erixon/Murray almost ready for top four minutes which could make one of those three expendable.

Although JD already traded away Nikitin once so he could be on the outs...

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03-18-2013, 03:33 PM
  #265
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Originally Posted by IHeartZherdev View Post
Vinny should not be moved. Lets say we got a 3rd round pick for him. The odds of that turning into a roster player who ends up as productive or meaningful to our team as Vinny is slim.
If its just a third, then most of us would easily agree with you. I want to construct a more challenging scenario: what if the Jackets are clearly out of the playoffs and Jarmo is offered a late 1st, or a 2nd + 3rd? Then what would you do?

True, the odds are you won't get a Vinny quality player out of either of those picks, but there is a significant chance (>5%) that you get a player much better than Vinny ever was.

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Jordan Eberle was taking like 22nd, he's better than Hall.
Nope. Eberle was maybe briefly ahead of Hall last year, but Edmonton's bloggers and boards consistently rate Taylor Hall, taken 1st overall, as the best player on the team. Here is the top 25 under 25, something Copper 'n Blue does every year.

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03-18-2013, 03:35 PM
  #266
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My personal hatred for Tyutin blinds me, but I just don't see any way the new regime keeps all three of Jack, Tyutin, and Wiz. Three big money long term contracts from the Howson era with Moore/Erixon/Murray almost ready for top four minutes which could make one of those three expendable.

Although JD already traded away Nikitin once so he could be on the outs...
My high regard for Tyutin blinds me, and I don't disagree with your assessment when it comes to those 3, JJ, Wiz, and Toots. I like all 3. What I'd like to see is the Jackets go into next year with those three still on the roster and base a 2014 trade deadline deal on next year. If I had to say which one of those 3 I'd trade, based on the composition of this team, I'd trade JJ. Pains me to say it. I think Tyutin may be more likely, but what the hell do I know?

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03-18-2013, 03:45 PM
  #267
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Jordan Eberle was taking like 22nd, he's better than Hall or Nugent-Hopkins.
Oilers fans disagree with that. Hall has been their best player this season, he's the one who drives the play.

Eberle might be better than Nuge now but he's also like 3 years older.

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03-18-2013, 03:50 PM
  #268
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If its just a third, then most of us would easily agree with you. I want to construct a more challenging scenario: what if the Jackets are clearly out of the playoffs and Jarmo is offered a late 1st, or a 2nd + 3rd? Then what would you do?

True, the odds are you won't get a Vinny quality player out of either of those picks, but there is a significant chance (>5%) that you get a player much better than Vinny ever was.



Nope. Eberle was maybe briefly ahead of Hall last year, but Edmonton's bloggers and boards consistently rate Taylor Hall, taken 1st overall, as the best player on the team. Here is the top 25 under 25, something Copper 'n Blue does every year.
No team is trading a 1st round pick for Vinny Prospal. Getting another second round pick would be nice, and would probably be hard for the front office to turn down if offered and I could understand if they took it.

That said, we have three firsts already. We'll be getting a couple nice prospects in the draft. We have a stocked system.

Vinny is honestly one of the better guys this franchise has had, and I don't think it would do JD or Jarmo any favors to trade a guy as beloved as Vinny in the room and by the fans. I think when a guy like him wants to be here, that says a lot and is infectious.

Look, I'm not saying Taylor Hall is bad. Jamie Benn, Jordan Eberle, Shea Weber, Jeff Skinner, there are a ton of franchise guys that aren't taken in the top 2. Of course getting a top pick would be great, but with Murray, Johansen, Calvert, Atkinson, Johansen, Erixon, Moore, Jenner, I just don't agree with the idea we need to tank and our only hope is Jones or Mckinnon.

I doubt we make the playoffs, but say we somehow snagged the 8th seed and got swept by the Blackhawks....I think experiencing playoff hockey and atmosphere would be huge for our young guys and would be extremely valuable.

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03-18-2013, 04:00 PM
  #269
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Taylor/Tyler was the big thing in the 2010 draft.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_NHL_Entry_Draft

Obviously those guys are impact players but Tarasenko, Bennett, Coyle, Etem, Fowler, Skinner Schwartz, all still seem to have good futures.

Same with the 2009 draft.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_NHL_Entry_Draft

Marcus Johansen, Chris Krieder, Kulikov, Ekman-Larson..

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03-18-2013, 04:14 PM
  #270
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Originally Posted by IHeartZherdev View Post
My personal hatred for Tyutin blinds me, but I just don't see any way the new regime keeps all three of Jack, Tyutin, and Wiz. Three big money long term contracts from the Howson era with Moore/Erixon/Murray almost ready for top four minutes which could make one of those three expendable.

Although JD already traded away Nikitin once so he could be on the outs...
That's the point "almost ready". Why is it that there is always this hue and cry to promote young prospects when they are almost ready? How about waiting until they are ready? Not one of those three have yet to play an entire season in total games played much less an entire season beginning to end. They have shown promise, they have shown they can play, but they still have room to grow and steps to take before you can call them NHL regulars.

This fans base has bemoaned the lack of system development, but just as soon as a young prospect shows some potential, the cry goes out to get rid of the "old" guys. Give it some time, nothing that lasts happens overnight. One of the things that JD has said on many occasions is that their intention is to not just make the playoffs once but year after year. That will take some time.

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03-18-2013, 04:29 PM
  #271
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That's the point "almost ready". Why is it that there is always this hue and cry to promote young prospects when they are almost ready? How about waiting until they are ready? Not one of those three have yet to play an entire season in total games played much less an entire season beginning to end. They have shown promise, they have shown they can play, but they still have room to grow and steps to take before you can call them NHL regulars.

This fans base has bemoaned the lack of system development, but just as soon as a young prospect shows some potential, the cry goes out to get rid of the "old" guys. Give it some time, nothing that lasts happens overnight. One of the things that JD has said on many occasions is that their intention is to not just make the playoffs once but year after year. That will take some time.

I have a hard time believing this new regime wants to be tied to all the long term deals of the old regime (RJ, Brass, Wiz, Tyutin, Jack)...usually regime change means some roster turnover as well as a coaching change


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03-18-2013, 04:41 PM
  #272
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Originally Posted by IHeartZherdev View Post
Why does every trade have net a "top pick/prospect."

I doubt anyone would give that for Umberger. That said, we've seen much worse contracts than his get moved so I think an RJ trade is a possibility.

As far as RJ's leadership - his permanent "A" is gone and it doesn't look like Jack or Dubie's A's are moving any time soon.
In RJ's case he has several more years of contributing hockey to play, not like some of the oldest deadline trades in the 38-40 range... He's worth a decent return if the team that would want him could afford his contract...

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03-18-2013, 04:55 PM
  #273
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...Of course getting a top pick would be great, but with Murray, Johansen, Calvert, Atkinson, Johansen, Erixon, Moore, Jenner, I just don't agree with the idea we need to tank and our only hope is Jones or Mckinnon.

I doubt we make the playoffs, but say we somehow snagged the 8th seed and got swept by the Blackhawks....I think experiencing playoff hockey and atmosphere would be huge for our young guys and would be extremely valuable.
I agree with these two sentences.

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03-18-2013, 05:21 PM
  #274
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Because, save for "conventional wisdom," we have no real sene of what JK/JD have planned, I am not ruling out the possibility of trading "for" someone. My assumption is this someone would not be a rental, and would "fit" with whatever plan the FO has moving forward. This would not have anything specifically to do with a "playoff push" for this season, IMO.

Such players could include (throwing **** at a wall here, not suggesting that any of these players for sure would "fit"): Stastny, Kennedy, Stewart, Versteeg, Pavelski, Stafford, Pominville, Camalleri, Nielsen, Talbot, Eller. I realize there's a variety of "types" of players there. Again, I am not hypothesizing that any of these will be targets, or are even available (and thus will not "defend" any of them individually). Just a thought is all.


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03-18-2013, 05:36 PM
  #275
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At this point I think every deal is going to be based on price.

We have a few pieces that are "superfluous" pieces which we can sell without much in terms of repercussions. (Umberger is a solid secondary/tertiary scorer and our roster is loaded with those, Brass can become a decent #2 center but has already been passed by Johansen, Anisimov and Dubinsky, and Nikitin is a PMD that has been outplayed IMO by Moore, Erixon, and Golo.) The issue arises when we start looking at players with real "value".

Aucoin: Probably the worst D-man we have Aucoin is none the less partially responsible for the development of some of the kids, and has, by all reports been a major positive voice in the room.

Prospal: The veteran leader we keep him if the return is a third round pick. The issue comes when we get offered a 1st. For the love of all that is good people are talking about a 1st+ for Ribeiro and the same for Jagr. If it comes to that we make a Tkachuk deal with him and bring him back next year (either as a player or as part of the organization).

JJ: Minute munching D who continues to develop into a true #1. Would net the biggest return without question, however advanced stats guys say this stretch of play is not as good as our eyes tell us and that we should unload him ASAP.

Wiz: Our PP with him we look competent, without, well lets not talk about that disaster. He brings a unique dimension to the PP, however he's overpaid and injury prone.

Tyutin: Probably our best all around D-man would bring a solid return and he isn't getting any younger. We would be a worse defense without him, but the drop from him to Erixon/Moore isn't as great IMO as many believe. Essentially I see him as JayBo without the terrible contract (seriously look at the stats over the last few years) and the return for JayBo is rumored to be ridiculous (i.e. a first and an A-levle prospect)

Complicating this more is the fact that there is an "urgency" with the rebuild given that the 2013 draft looks to be one of the best in terms of talent since 2008 and that the next few drafts aren't nearly as deep (Though the guys at the top appear to some truly excellent prospects).

Personally, I trade Tytuin, Nikitin, Brass, and Umby. Put Brass and Nikitin in a Package for a good forward, use Umby to grab a second+, and send Tyutin out for a 1st+ a good prospect.

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